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    JUB Addict Mariatenebre's Avatar
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    LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    Just leaving this post here as a response to gay Abrahamics.

    Hi guys this post is related to the fact that the Methodists voted against allowing gay clergy and along with the fact that LGBT Abrahamics still keep begging the Abrahamics to include them
    Here is the deal I to this day do not understand for the life of me why any LGBT person would want to be a part of the Abrahamic religions. They and Zoroastrianism are basically the religions that introduced homophobia and transphobia to the planet and were instrumental in spreading their anti gay agenda and sodomy laws worldwide. I would tell every gay Abrahamic to simply divest from the Abrahamic religions and go to religions that celebrate them. Hell many non Abrahamic aka Pagan religions even have LGBT and LGBT friendly Gods, heros etc. Tons of the Gods in Greek religion had gay lovers of the 12 Olympian Male Gods only one God was not known to have taken a male lover and that was Ares. The Erotes were even seen as Gods of homosexuality. Likewise in Rome so was Antinous the Deified lover of Emperor Hadrian. Aphrodite and Artemis were also seen as patrons of lesbians as well. Dionysus and Cybele were even associated with effeminate males and masculine women many of whom would be considered transwomen and transmen today. Besides that in China for instance you had Tuer Shen the Rabbit God of homosexuality. In Vodoun it is thought that Erzulie Freda is the cause of homosexuality in males and Erzulie Dantor is the cause of homosexuality in females. In Quimbanda Pomba Gira is the Goddess of Women, Witchcraft, Homosexuality, Transgenderism, Sex, Love, Revenge, Prostitution etc. There are so many options why these Abrahamic gays keep begging these homophobic and transphobic religions for acceptance I will never know. As Jada Pinkett Smith said in the Oscars So White controversy "Begging is Demeaning." It dosen't make gay Abrahamics look good in these homophobe's eyes by begging these anti gay and anti trans religions to like them it only makes them look more pathetic as no one likes a wretched thing. Even the Gods don't like wretched things. The facts are Yahweh, Jesus and Allah hate gays and trans people and their religions basically introduced homophobia in the world you gays would probably have better luck with Cthulu then these Deities. Honestly why these gay Abrahamics love begging and being wretched and pathetic rather then going to religions that celebrate them I don't understand I don't understand why they love struggling. Personally I divested a long time ago I am proud to be a Scarlet Pomba Gira spirited Whore of Babylon.

    Again as I said in this post I really just wish LGBT people would divest from the Abrahamic religions. The Christianization of Europe was literally the worst thing that could happen to LGBT people in the Western world as Christians basically introduced their extreme homophobia and instituted sodomy laws. Not to say that the Romans for instance were perfect on LGBT peoples and sexuality in general but they were miles above the latter Christians.

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    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: The Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    (Paraphrased)

    Yahweh, Jesus and Allah hate gays and trans people.

    The religions of Yahweh, Jesus and Allah are responsible for homophobia.
    There is a difference between Yahweh, Jesus, or Allah and persons who profess to be followers or adherents.

    Definition of religion [Wiki]

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    JUB Addict Mariatenebre's Avatar
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    Re: The Bible

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    There is a difference between Yahweh, Jesus, or Allah and persons who profess to be followers or adherents.

    Definition of religion [Wiki]
    Except that the religious texts and prophets that these Gods supposedly have as their mouthpieces definitely shows that they hate homosexuality.

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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    In the UK in the news we had a school surrounded by Muslim families protesting that a gay teacher in the school had a class called 'No Outsiders' which teaches children to accept all types of people in the LGTBQ community. Some threatened to leave the UK if their kids carry on being indoctrinated with LGBTQ ideas as it is strictly forbidden in Islam, and this guy who was on the mike warned that more and more Muslim families countrywide will demand that there be no LGBTQ education in ANY school if they have their way!!! I wish they would all fuk the hell off back to their oppressive regimes where i am sure they'll be very happy! This video says how no one from the LGBTQ groups have protested this homophobia by Muslims who have, by the way, managed to kill the lessons that were part of the school curriculum!
    Last edited by ludolfo; March 9th, 2019 at 11:48 AM.

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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    Not one gay person who uses these forums has got anything to say about this??? Omfg!!

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    JUB Addict Mariatenebre's Avatar
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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    Once more ludolfo what is hilarious about this is the UK has hate speech laws which all though I am against I find it funny that none of these Muslims were charged with hate speech when I am sure if this was a Christian White person they would have been. Yet another example of the bigotry of low expectations for Muslims by regressive leftists.

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    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    Ö none of these Muslims were charged with hate speech Ö
    I didnít watch the whole video, but seem to recall that peaceful protests do not run afoul of provisions in the UK laws pertaining to hate speech.

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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    I kind of find your first post puzzling because it seems like you see belief as a choice?
    As if people are just choosing Abrahamic faiths arbitrarily and could by extension arbitrarily choose something else.

    I guess I don't really understand what you don't understand.
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    JUB Addict Mariatenebre's Avatar
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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    I didnít watch the whole video, but seem to recall that peaceful protests do not run afoul of provisions in the UK laws pertaining to hate speech.
    If these people were British Christians and said that homosexuality was shameful and called for pro gay education to be eradicated I guarantee you they would be charged for something. Hell the British government has been very lenient with Muslims when it comes to hate speech pretty much allowing them to call for deaths of gays, death to apostates etc but you get charged if you dare to criticize Islam.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaCore View Post
    I kind of find your first post puzzling because it seems like you see belief as a choice?
    As if people are just choosing Abrahamic faiths arbitrarily and could by extension arbitrarily choose something else.

    I guess I don't really understand what you don't understand.
    Religion is a choice you can choose to be a part of a religion or leave and apostatize from it. Me personally I am an apostate of Christianity and a Pagan Convert.
    Last edited by Mariatenebre; March 15th, 2019 at 08:35 PM.

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    Re: Two New Zealand Mosques Attacked. Forty or More Souls Dead. Terrorist Live Streamed During.

    Intolerance is in the Koran, you know that, and the Koran is taught in every Mosque around the globe.

    "TheReligionofPeace..
    TROP is a non-partisan, fact-based site which examines the ideological threat that Islam poses to human dignity and freedom"

    https://www.thereligionofpeace.com

    I've said this before and I'll say it again. I don't care where you come from, what colour you are, or what religion you practice, but you leave your politics and laws behind when you immigrate to a new country.

    If you want us to tolerate Islam, how about they tolerate Christians, Jews, women and gays. That's a start.

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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    I can't speak for Muslims or Jews, but whether Christianity condemns homosexuality is actually the subject of debate, especially among those who don't go into the issue already hating gay people.

    The verses used to condemn gay people are frankly mistranslated, possibly deliberately so.

    The word Malakoi from 1 Corinthians, while often translated as 'homosexual', actually means 'soft', and is used to describe furniture, silk, and one person looking at another. It probably refers to luxury or general moral weakness rather than sex, which would fit better with the rather strident, anti-materialism of Jesus. The word 'Arsenokoitai' used in Timothy and Leviticus literally means 'man-bed', and the jewish philosopher Philo (20bc-40AD) interpreted Leviticus to be referring to prostitutes at Pagan temples, especially those of the goddess Cybele/Ceres. Paul was an educated, greek influenced jewish male like Philo, and must have been familiar with this interpretation.

    The closest it gets to condemning homosexuality explicitly is in Romans 1:26-27:
    "... for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful.."

    Seems clear enough,right? Except that the early church did not originally understand this to be talking about homosexuality either. Athanasius of Alexandria (who pretty much gave us the Nicene Creed and the trinity as we know it) and Augustine both explicitly rejected the idea that it referred to homosexuality. As with 1 Timothy, it may be a round about way of referring to pagan prostitution, in the broader context of what was frequently branded 'idolatrous' behaviours. What we understand to be 'religion' was, back then, understood in terms of a relationship, and often described in sexual terms. What was required was not just a belief that God exists, but a loyal relationship to God alone, avoiding anything even resembling loyalty to/worship of any other deity. Such behaviour was often referred to not just as 'idolatry' but also as 'prostitution'. To be 'faithful' then meant more of a 'divine monogamy' than simply monotheism.

    The story of Sodom and Gomorrah does not refer to sexual orientation, but a mass rape of two guests in Lot's house, and is easily about lacking hospitality/commiting sexual violence unless you're absolutely determined to see it as anti-gay.

    Finally we have Jesus Christ himself, who never said a single word about gay people. Not one. Not in any of the canonical Gospels of the Bible, nor even in any of the apocryphal gospels used by Gnostic groups (gospel of Thomas, etc). What he did say, over and over and over again was te word 'Love' (Agape, meaning charity/compassion, loving-kindness). In fact 'Agape' is used over 300 times in the New Testament alone. He even went so far as to say Loving God and loving other people were the two most important commandments, on which the rest of the law depended.

    1 John 4:7-8 explicitly declares:
    "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love."

    Even monogamy isn't really demanded by the bible, believe it or not. Many old testament figures such as David and Moses had multiple wives without God condemning them, and polygamy was common among Jewish communities even in the time of Christ. The only time the bible ever comes even close to commanding monogamy is 1 Timothy 3:2 when it says church elders should be 'mias gunaikos andra'. This is often translated 'the husband of one wife', but can also mean 'a wife man' (ie, 'married')
    The Romans, on the other hand, *were* strictly monogamous in terms of marriage (if ambiguous about extra marital sex) and modern Christianity is more likely to get its sexual puritanism from the Romans than the Bible.

    The behaviour of Christians through history is another matter, but there have been crap people doing crap things in the name of all kinds of ideologies and religions, including Pagan ones. According to Tacitus, the german tribes drowned gay people in muddy bogs. The Romans felt any sex were you were the penetrator was fine, while being penetrated in any way was considered shameful. This was an attitude shared by the ancient Greeks, who sometimes made an exemption for young men being penetrated by an older 'mentor'.

    Even today, many people- including some who consider themselves progressive- continue to see penetration as an act of conquest, that glorifies the one who does it, and degrades the one to whom it is done. Even Stephen Colbert, an otherwise decent human being, felt it was insulting to Trump to portray him as sexually receptive.

    Far from Christianity being homophobic, it's possible to say that Helen Lovejoy-esque homophobia and prudishness is anti christian.

    The reason why gay people continue to identify with abrahamic religions is because the issue of religion and sexuality is complicated. If gay people who are Christian because of belief or culture or any reason, give up something that they love and brings them joy, we simply surrender Christianity to the bigots. We then give them the ability to justify their bigotry with religion when in reality, not only are they flat out wrong biblically speaking, but they'd probably be bigots no matter what their religion was because bigotry is rooted in ignorance, fear, and hatred not in rational thought.

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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    I think some of us should look more carefully into homosexuality in Greece. Let us not forget The Tyrannicides.

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    JUB Addict Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    In the UK in the news we had a school surrounded by Muslim families protesting that a gay teacher in the school had a class called 'No Outsiders' which teaches children to accept all types of people in the LGTBQ community. Some threatened to leave the UK if their kids carry on being indoctrinated with LGBTQ ideas as it is strictly forbidden in Islam, and this guy who was on the mike warned that more and more Muslim families countrywide will demand that there be no LGBTQ education in ANY school if they have their way!!! I wish they would all fuk the hell off back to their oppressive regimes where i am sure they'll be very happy! This video says how no one from the LGBTQ groups have protested this homophobia by Muslims who have, by the way, managed to kill the lessons that were part of the school curriculum!
    This is why some or a lot of people are anti islam.
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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    If these people were British Christians and said that homosexuality was shameful and called for pro gay education to be eradicated I guarantee you they would be charged for something. Hell the British government has been very lenient with Muslims when it comes to hate speech pretty much allowing them to call for deaths of gays, death to apostates etc but you get charged if you dare to criticize Islam.


    Religion is a choice you can choose to be a part of a religion or leave and apostatize from it. Me personally I am an apostate of Christianity and a Pagan Convert.
    Damn right, and you have reminded me what else i can say in protest to this crap. As soon as i heard about it I contacted the Mayor of Birmingham. he past the buck to the 'Education Service'. So I contacted them but haven't got a reply yet. According to another article it was said that the UK LGBTQ community have also been quite about this whereas, like you say, if any others said this hate speech they'd be up in arms!

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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    Marcforexample, that is a really interesting and informative post! I have heard before that a lot of the accusations of 'abomination' and so on in the Bible is against pagan religions - which doesn't make it right, but homophobes always interpret the texts to justify their own homophobia.
    What do you know of the origins of the rabid homophobia of Islam? Something to do with the destruction of the people of Lut or some sht?

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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    The debate about Lut (Lot to Judaism) seems misplaced. Whether or not the received interpretation of Sodom is against homosexuality or inhospitality (rape), it was set about 4,000 years ago. The imputed law of Moses was declared in the Talmud to be received around 3500 years ago. That became a written tradition by about 2500 years ago in the Babylonian Captivity, although intact copies do not date to anywhere close to that century.

    it is nonetheless a fair attribution to the Torah, specifically to the book of Leviticus, to cite the unequivocal prohibition against gay sex, whether that be penetration, pederasty, any other flavors, it was explicitly male to male. The penalty, like in Islam later, was death.

    Today, Judaism, in some of its forms, and Christianity, and Islam, have all split between traditional interpretations and progressive reinterpretations. Speaking about Judaism, or Christianity, or Islam as monolithic systems is wholly false. Whereas it can be fairly and truly said that all three evolved from systemic homophobic teachings, it cannot be equally said that they are universally so today.

    And for those who dismiss the latter forms as unconscionable because of some assumed indefensibility of their origins, one would do well to remember that there is almost zero basis for any significant exceptions to the historical derogation of women as chattel, or of other conquered people as slaves in most of the world. On top of that, ritualistic human sacrifice was also widespread in many cultures, so just dismissing all ancient people and traditions is evading the real legacy of humanity, and simply owning our position in the progression of beliefs and cultural practices.

    Or, you could alternatively take the Marxist position, as is seen here.
    Last edited by NotHardUp1; March 21st, 2019 at 12:40 AM.

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    JUB Addict Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    The debate about Lut (Lot to Judaism) seems misplaced. Whether or not the received interpretation of Sodom is against homosexuality or inhospitality (rape), it was set about 4,000 years ago. The imputed law of Moses was declared in the Talmud to be received around 3500 years ago. That became a written tradition by about 2500 years ago in the Babylonian Captivity, although intact copies do not date to anywhere close to that century.

    it is nonetheless a fair attribution to the Torah, specifically to the book of Leviticus, to cite the unequivocal prohibition against gay sex, whether that be penetration, pederasty, any other flavors, it was explicitly male to male. The penalty, like in Islam later, was death.

    Today, Judaism, in some of its forms, and Christianity, and Islam, have all split between traditional interpretations and progressive reinterpretations. Speaking about Judaism, or Christianity, or Islam as monolithic systems is wholly false. Whereas it can be fairly and truly said that all three evolved from systemic homophobic teachings, it cannot be equally said that they are universally so today.

    And for those who dismiss the latter forms as unconscionable because of some assumed indefensibility of their origins, one would do well to remember that there is almost zero basis for any significant exceptions to the historical derogation of women as chattel, or of other conquered people as slaves in most of the world. On top of that, ritualistic human sacrifice was also widespread in many cultures, so just dismissing all ancient people and traditions is evading the real legacy of humanity, and simply owning our position in the progression of beliefs and cultural practices.

    Or, you could alternatively take the Marxist position, as is seen here.
    you are making a lot of excuses for abrahamic religions which have done a lot of harm to gay people.
    And still doing harm today ....
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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    And for those who dismiss the latter forms as unconscionable because of some assumed indefensibility of their origins, one would do well to remember that there is almost zero basis for any significant exceptions to the historical derogation of women as chattel, or of other conquered people as slaves in most of the world. On top of that, ritualistic human sacrifice was also widespread in many cultures, so just dismissing all ancient people and traditions is evading the real legacy of humanity, and simply owning our position in the progression of beliefs and cultural practices.
    I'm not sure I understand, so here is what I'm interpreting this paragraph:
    For people who claim it's wrong to practice a belief because of what it originally may have been, they need to consider that Abrahamic faiths did not originate the atrocious practices and so it is an unfair criticism because this isn't a religious issue this is a societal issue that is being blamed unjustifiably in favor of ignoring the rest of our own awful historical tendencies. It's a misdirect.

    Is that a fair restatement?

    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    Or, you could alternatively take the Marxist position, as is seen here.
    I don't understand. What is the Marxist position?
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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    Religion is a choice you can choose to be a part of a religion or leave and apostatize from it. Me personally I am an apostate of Christianity and a Pagan Convert.
    I agree. Religion is a choice. But belief isn't. And if you are convinced that a god exists and that you have salvation through their son Jesus Christ, you can't just choose to believe something else because it feels better.
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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaCore View Post
    I agree. Religion is a choice. But belief isn't. And if you are convinced that a god exists and that you have salvation through their son Jesus Christ, you can't just choose to believe something else because it feels better.
    of course belief is a choice. Eventually when you come our of a belief system you were under, it was only you who chose to come out of it. Noone else can do that FOR you, ?? this come with critical thinking, investigating your belief, etc etc

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    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    Noone else can do that FOR you, ??

    this come with critical thinking, investigating your belief, etc etc
    double-edged sword

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    Re: LGBT people should divest from the Abrahamic religions [SPLIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    of course belief is a choice. Eventually when you come our of a belief system you were under, it was only you who chose to come out of it. Noone else can do that FOR you, ?? this come with critical thinking, investigating your belief, etc etc
    Belief can change but it is not a choice. You are either convinced of something or you are not. For example, I can't just believe the earth is flat. I'd need to be presented with evidence and become convinced that this is correct. I can't control if I'm convinced of something.

    If I come out of a belief system it is not because I chose to do so. It is because I became unconvinced. But it wasn't my decision to become unconvinced. It may have been my decision to create circumstances that lead to me being unconvinced. But that's not the same as simply deciding I'd be unconvinced. Does that clear it up?
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