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  1. #1
    The world is new NotHardUp1's Avatar
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    Culture Why Americans do not see 9/11 as a racial attack -- because it wasn't.

    The deaths from the terrorist attack on 9/11 were across the board. Americans died in ratios that looked a lot like America's population: http://answers.google.com/answers/th...id/595756.html

    Those in the towers, on the planes, in the rescue forces, and simply casualties in the way, were a diverse population. They have been memorialized repeatedly, and their faces seen.

    The religious fanaticism that launched the attacks was correctly seen for what it is, a dangerous extremism very much akin to the white supremacist sect of Christianity, or the Neo-Nazis in Europe and elsewhere.

    Much is made of the association of terrorism with Islam in the popular mind in both the US and Europe. To be sure, there were reactionary hate crimes immediately afterward, with even murders of Sikhs and others as a horrible consequence of ignorance and bigotry. Yet, they were one-offs, like murders of gay men. They were not the rule. They were not pandemic. They did not represent the majority of the citizenry.

    Were Americans more afraid of Arabs and the Mid-East inferno? Certainly, but that doesn't constitute irrational fear across the board, nor has it been some plague that has taken the country afterward. It remains a lingering apprehension as follow-on acts happen in the US, France, Belgium, England, and elsewhere.

    Most Americans accurately perceive the attack as a radical opposition to American culture -- financial, social, educational, religious, and so on. The terrorists hoped to ignite a war, and they succeeded marvelously, if unsurprisingly.

    And, it is often popular to depict the heartland as some bucktoothed inbred lot of folks with no acceptance of diversity while the coasts are portrayed as a relative haven of multicultural diversity. Whereas it is true that large cities do offer more pluralism by their very nature, it is not true that the center of the country is void of acceptance.

    I live in Huntsville, Alabama. It is a conservative, military base town, with little radicalism in any direction. Yet, here in North Alabama, at the foot of the Appalachians, and only a quick hour's drive from the infamous Scottsboro, the area is not hostile to Islam. There are FIVE mosques, an Islamic academy and several restaurants and markets that serve their community.

    https://www.salatomatic.com/sub/Unit...lle/7BTOOQGLZr

    Is there a total absence of bigotry or ignorance? Hardly. But the last time I checked, that population seems to inhabit all corners of this country, with violent opposition in NYC to building a mosque there.

    You can use the salatomatic website to search for mosques in any community. It will quickly inform you that they have not been driven out or anything like that. Do they face an uphill fight for social understanding due to the terrorists ongoing actions? Yes, but people who live around them are generally smart enough to recognize their neighbors and the validity of freedom of religion as a tenet.

    Don't buy the hype. Look up facts for yourself. Be a good citizen by being informed, being inclusive and accepting, and by working to unify our country rather than ignite the fires.
    Last edited by NotHardUp1; September 15th, 2018 at 04:37 PM.

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    ***** queen fabulouslyghetto's Avatar
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    Re: Why Americans do not see 9/11 as a racial attack -- because it wasn't.

    I'm confused, has anybody said it was a racial attack? You seem to be answering a question nobody asked.

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    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Why Americans do not see 9/11 as a racial attack -- because it wasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1
    (paraphrased from thread title)

    9/11 wasn’t a racial attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    Much is made of the association of terrorism with Islam in the popular mind in both the US and Europe.
    What most Americans get wrong about Islamophobia (Vox; April 2018)
    “It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.”

    – Henry David Thoreau

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    JUB Addict Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: Why Americans do not see 9/11 as a racial attack -- because it wasn't.

    I see the 9.11 attack as
    an extreme religious cultural & political attack against the United States.
    Victim of PC police. Some of the PC police are good at making untrue things up about other jub members.

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    ***** queen fabulouslyghetto's Avatar
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    Re: Why Americans do not see 9/11 as a racial attack -- because it wasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    The religious fanaticism that launched the attacks was correctly seen for what it is, a dangerous extremism very much akin to the white supremacist sect of Christianity, or the Neo-Nazis in Europe and elsewhere.
    This couldn't be more false. It was not seen as extremism but as par the course for Islam hence travel bans, fears of Sharia law taking over, media hyping up videos of Islam crowds chanting death to infidels. Comparing it to white supremacy and neo-nazism is vastly dishonest since both groups enjoy freedom of expression in America that would never be afforded to radical Islam, even regular peaceful Muslims could barely worship in peace for some time, meanwhile the Klan and Nazis march through American streets with nary a protest from Americans en masse despite a longstanding and well-documented history of terrorist behavior.... that has not once [that I've ever seen] actually been called terrorism. We are discussing this on the anniversary of a church bombing that left four girls dead. No vigils, no "Never forget." We're only a few months away from the anniversary of an entire black town being demolished. No remembrance. No "Never forget." I wonder what the difference could be.

    The thread is confusing, you concede a heightened fear of Islam in America but insist that it was strictly rational, but contradict that by admitting there were attacks on Muslims to the extent that even someone who looked Muslim but wasn't was vulnerable. I'm not sure what to make of this topic.

  6. #6
    The world is new NotHardUp1's Avatar
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    Re: Why Americans do not see 9/11 as a racial attack -- because it wasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    The linked article didn't really characterize the perception of the 9/11 attack to be racial, did it? It also cited Bill Maher as some sort of representative of the Left when his overt bigotry about all religion makes him the equal of any extremists on the Right. He's not model of inclusion, regardless of the religion in question. He's a hate monger.

    I would like to see how the Southern Poverty Law Center works the math.

    The linked article contained a link to their article, which was pretty thin on substantiation or detail. Your linked article just made broad generalizations, so I clicked through to see the data that was being referred to as "studies."

    The SPLC claims 250,000 incidents occurred in the last year. The definition would need to be examined at that rate. When even a graffiti incident happens on a university campus, or a person is literally attacked, it makes headline news on every channel out there. So, how in the hell are there 250,000 incidents happenning in one year in a country?

    Either the numbers are so grossly exaggerated by inflated claims and petty insults amplified, or there is a titanic conspiracy among the media outlets, on that puts all other conspiracy theories to shame. And this would have to happen by the same Leftist media that the Right is always accusing of bias.

    Do I believe hate crimes, against Muslims, immigrants, and minorities are up globally and in the US? Most likely. Do I believe the incidence is anywhere near the outrages that were loosed just after 9/11? Absolutely not.

    The fear of Islamic extremism is legitimate, but I don't buy it that the average American believes his neighbor is plotting his government's downfall. The drumbeat by the talk radio monsters has been more xenophobic than merely Islamophobic.

    And multi-racial community continues to grow in America, with plenty of racial intermarriages and multicultural institutions and communities. It's true in backwoods Alabama, and it's true in more urban areas most certainly.
    Last edited by NotHardUp1; September 16th, 2018 at 01:34 AM.

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    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Why Americans do not see 9/11 as a racial attack -- because it wasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    The linked article didn't really characterize the perception of the 9/11 attack to be racial, did it?
    The linked article consists primarily of an interview between the article’s author, Alexia Underwood and Critical Race Theorist, Khaled Beydoun. The interview did not seek to characterize public perception at the time of the 9/11 Attack; however, the introductory section of the article reports that contemporary incidents of hate crimes have increased since Donald Trump assumed the presidency.

    Professor Beydoun suggests that the US “War on Terror” exploits misinformation provided to citizens regarding Islam and thereby effectively establishes a system of state-sponsored Islamophobia. Similar government “tools” or programs are also tied to its protection of Americans from other groups of people that are “different” and arguably threatening. In that respect, the government demonstrates another example of de facto support of white supremacy. The professor notes that Black Lives Matter seeks to dismantle such white supremacist structures and policies from the state. Eliminating elements of structural Islamophobia is part of a change that could help diminish hate crimes against Muslims and other groups of people that are perceived to be different.

    With respect to the surge of Islamophobic “reactionary hate crimes immediately [post-9/11 – that ostensibly] did not represent the majority of the citizenry,” the article notes “assaults on Muslims [reported to the FBI] have “easily surpassed” post-9/11 levels.” That finding is supported by the Pew Research Center.


    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    The SPLC claims 250,000 incidents occurred in the last year.
    The SPLC objectively demonstrates how “government studies show that the actual number of hate crimes may be as high as 250,000.”

    On average, U.S. residents experienced approximately 250,000 hate crime victimizations each year between 2004 and 2015, of which about 230,000 were violent hate victimizations.

    Hate Crime Victimization, 2004-2015 (US Department of Justice; June 2017)
    “It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.”

    – Henry David Thoreau

  8. #8
    ***** queen fabulouslyghetto's Avatar
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    Re: Why Americans do not see 9/11 as a racial attack -- because it wasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    The linked article consists primarily of an interview between the article’s author, Alexia Underwood and Critical Race Theorist, Khaled Beydoun. The interview did not seek to characterize public perception at the time of the 9/11 Attack; however, the introductory section of the article reports that contemporary incidents of hate crimes have increased since Donald Trump assumed the presidency.

    Professor Beydoun suggests that the US “War on Terror” exploits misinformation provided to citizens regarding Islam and thereby effectively establishes a system of state-sponsored Islamophobia. Similar government “tools” or programs are also tied to its protection of Americans from other groups of people that are “different” and arguably threatening. In that respect, the government demonstrates another example of de facto support of white supremacy. The professor notes that Black Lives Matter seeks to dismantle such white supremacist structures and policies from the state. Eliminating elements of structural Islamophobia is part of a change that could help diminish hate crimes against Muslims and other groups of people that are perceived to be different.
    To parallel, Black Lives Matter, without a single incident of violence or hate-based attacks, whose sole mission was ending police violence against people of color, was immediately met with backlash from the American populous. It was immediately labeled as a hate group. Meanwhile white nationalist groups, the Klan and neo-nazis are defended as "free speech" and despite a longstanding history of acts of terrorism against people of color, are often casually dismissed as "a difference of opinion." The same demonization has happened to Islam, as you said, under the umbrella of this "War on Terror," a war that has never been declared on white domestic terrorists. Strangely, despite the obvious differences being clearly related to color, people find infinite ways to explain this all away as not being a matter of anti-brown bias.

  9. #9
    The world is new NotHardUp1's Avatar
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    Re: Why Americans do not see 9/11 as a racial attack -- because it wasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    The SPLC objectively demonstrates how “government studies show that the actual number of hate crimes may be as high as 250,000.”
    No, that's not demonstrating it. That's alluding to it being claimed or possible. "May be as high as" is a swag of vagueness.

    And I stand by my assertion. If 250,000 cases exist, then someone's including some ridiculously insignificant items that swell the number. I don't believe we only hear about the events on "slow news days." There are too many news outlets -- local radio, print, magazines, television, and internet.

    Notionally spread across the states, we'd be incurring 5,000 incidents per year per state. That's complete bullshit. You couldn't hide that many incidents short of a state-controlled media like North Korea has. You couldn't hide 10% of that. If there are 500 hate crimes per year in each state, they'd be in the news.

    As for state sponsored Islamophobia, professors and think tankers and pundits and pollsters can opine away, but it doesn't negate the point I made about Islam doing just fine, even here in the hinterland. The self-annointed elite love to speak for how the everyman thinks without even looking at evidence to the contrary.
    Last edited by NotHardUp1; September 18th, 2018 at 04:22 PM.

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    ***** queen fabulouslyghetto's Avatar
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    Re: Why Americans do not see 9/11 as a racial attack -- because it wasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    The self-annointed elite love to speak for how the everyman thinks without even looking at evidence to the contrary.
    This is an ironic statement to make after dismissing a statistic on the grounds that "If it were true we'd hear about it," as if the media is suddenly some fair, equal and impartial source of information. And to insist that hate crime numbers are being inflated when, in fact, we've seen numerous examples of how difficult they are to indict/try/convict is contradictory.

  11. #11
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Why Americans do not see 9/11 as a racial attack -- because it wasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    I stand by my assertion. If 250,000 cases exist, then someone's including some ridiculously insignificant items that swell the number.
    250,000 ÷ 360 = 694 hate crimes per day

    300,000,000 ÷ 694 = 1 hate crime per 432,276 people


    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    The self-annointed elite love to speak for how the everyman thinks without even looking at evidence to the contrary.
    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    On average, U.S. residents experienced approximately 250,000 hate crime victimizations each year between 2004 and 2015, of which about 230,000 were violent hate victimizations.

    Hate Crime Victimization, 2004-2015 (US Department of Justice; June 2017)
    Findings are primarily from the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ (BJS) National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which has collected data on crimes motivated by hate since 2003. The NCVS and the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Hate Crime Statistics Program are the principal sources of annual information on hate crime in the United States. BJS and the FBI use the hate crime definition established by the Hate Crime Statistics Act (28 U.S.C. § 534): “crimes that manifest evidence of prejudice based on race, gender or gender identity, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity.”
    “It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.”

    – Henry David Thoreau

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    JUB Addict Mariatenebre's Avatar
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    Re: Why Americans do not see 9/11 as a racial attack -- because it wasn't.

    First of all 9/11 was not a racial attack it was a religious attack. Next if the whole point of this article is the pay no attention to the man behind the curtain regressive leftist apologia of Islam then that is nonsense. The fact is Islam does call Muslims to wage jihad terror against disbelievers, Islam does call for the death of gays and trans people, Islam is violently misogynist towards women and further more Arab Islam has every bit a colonialist, imperialist and racist history to it's expansions as European Christianity.

    Once more when people mention race Islam has a violently racist history towards African peoples. Arab Muslim nations still own African people as slaves and Arab Islam occupies over half of Africa and has more power and infrastructure there then Europeans or Africans combined. Once more the Arab Islamic slavery conditions of Black people makes even the European one seem like five star accommodations by comparison and that was one of the worst atrocities on the planet. Arab Islamic nations are like the Confederate South on steroids when it comes to racism.

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