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  1. #1
    JUB Addict mikey3000's Avatar
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    Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Mexican presidential candidate Andrés Manuel López Obrador (AMLO) called for mass immigration to the United States during a speech Tuesday declaring it a “human right we will defend” for all North Americans.

    “And soon, very soon — after the victory of our movement — we will defend all the migrants in the American continent and all the migrants in the world,” Obrador said, adding that immigrants “must leave their towns and find a life in the United States.”

    Do you agree with his statement?
    "Love me or hate me, both are in my favour."

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    ***** queen fabulouslyghetto's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Is it a human right to claim dominion over land you obtained by slaughtering the previous inhabitants, built via slavery and now try to dictate who can and can't enter that land? No. No it isn't.

    Is it a human right for immigrants to enter a land inhabited by immigrants, founded by immigrants and maintained by immigrants? Yes. Interestingly enough nobody was concerned about immigration when they were doing America's work for free.

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    it's a human right for anyone from any country that is doing harm to you and preventing you from living a good life--- to try to immigrate to the USA--you know, "Give me your tired.........."

    of course doing it in an orderly legal way without all the racist bullshit or political games---is something neither of the 2 parties know how to do---and when you get here assimilating into American culture is important too

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    JUB Addict mikey3000's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    What is "American" culture?
    "Love me or hate me, both are in my favour."

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    "Repent, Harlequin!" TickTockMan's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    I feel in most cases borders are foolish.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Is it a human right of a citizen of country A to relocate to country B, regardless of whether the citizens or government of country B want them there? I don't see how that can be so. Countries have the right to determine their own immigration policy and to deport anyone found to be present otherwise than their laws allow.

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    Get it on! peeonme's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    A country has a right to control its borders. I can't just move to Canada, I have to apply. I took Cananda's 'entry' test and was told 'no'.

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    ^ We do take refugees, though, and, for many from Central America, the United States is just a stop-over on their way to Canada.
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    Get it on! peeonme's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    ^ We do take refugees, though, and, for many from Central America, the United States is just a stop-over on their way to Canada.
    Yes, but this is about just walking in and calling it home.

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    coleos patentes rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    The irony here is that much of the western and southern US was Mexico long before it was stolen by the US.

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    Get it on! peeonme's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    The irony here is that much of the western and southern US was Mexico long before it was stolen by the US.
    We are where we are at, no one is going to go back and start handed over land to the people that were there first.

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    coleos patentes rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Oh I think we all agree on that. Humans never give back what we steal. And most of the descendants of the Spaniards who stole Mexico and Central America from its aboriginal peoples only have the advantage of a few more centuries of imperialist seizure to rely on. But it is ironic.

    And as we've seen into the 21st century, nothing prevents one tribe from gaining ascendancy over another and seizing what they have. Either by force or by economic imperialism.

    It is every human's right to seek asylum. Period.

    It is every person's right to apply to become a resident or citizen of another country.

    And as we see, it is the right of the people already in the bailey to hurl rocks down upon them and scorn their misery and their dreams.

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    And as we see, it is the right of the people already in the bailey to hurl rocks down upon them and scorn their misery and their dreams.
    I wonder how many here will know what you're talking about without having to Google it?
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    JUB Addict mikey3000's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post

    It is every human's right to seek asylum. Period.

    It is every person's right to apply to become a resident or citizen of another country.
    Seek, yes. Apply, yes, but is it their right to not follow that country's immigration laws and just demand citizenship? Does the president of another country have the right to demand that his citizens, and those of every other country be granted legal entry into said country because they want it? Does any other country on the planet work like that?

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    ***** queen fabulouslyghetto's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    Yes, but this is about just walking in and calling it home.
    Isn't that exactly what the fuck the founding fathers did? except these immigrants aren't slaughtering everything that moves. once again white privelege rears it's ugly head. "you can't have this land, this is MY land and I get to choose who comes and goes, just ask all the dead ass natives i slaughtered who lived here before me." if the natives scrutinized the english settlers none of us would be here right now [nor would thousands of gallons of oil spills, the exctinct species list would be smaller, America would actually be fucking great]

    colonialism is one of the biggest historical ironies. taking shit from people then hoarding it to yourself cuz you don't want someone taking it from you, which by the way is not even what the immigrants are trying to do.

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    Get it on! peeonme's Avatar
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    Welcome Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    I welcome all who enter legally, many of my neighbors speak only Spanish. I assume that if they are here that they are here legally. They need not prove anything to me.

    There are hardly people any where in the western hemisphere that didn't displace indigenous people when they showed up and moved in.
    So the 'you stole the land' argument could be applied to most Nations.

  17. #17
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikey3000 View Post
    “And soon, very soon — after the victory of our movement — we will defend all the migrants in the American continent and all the migrants in the world,” Obrador said, adding that immigrants “must leave their towns and find a life in the United States.”

    Do you agree with his statement?
    I disagree with your characterization of what Obrador said.



    Most of what Mexican presidential candidate Obrador is quoted as having said relates to his protest of the “arrogant, repressive, racist, and inhumane attitude” of the Trump Administration. Among other demands, Obrador calls for intervention by the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights to take action to stop Trump from placing children in cages and separating them from their parents.

    If elected, Obrador vows:

    “to defend the migrants of the entire American continent and all the migrants of the world who, by necessity, have to leave their villages to seek life in the United States.”

    Your quote left some words out. (Highlighted above)


    Human rights violations against migrants can include a denial of civil and political rights such as arbitrary detention, torture, or a lack of due process, as well as economic, social and cultural rights such as the rights to health, housing or education. The denial of migrants’ rights is often closely linked to discriminatory laws and to deep-seated attitudes of prejudice or xenophobia.

    Your Human Rights > Migration (United Nations – Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights)
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    JUB Addict ballcaphair's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    I wonder how many here will know what you're talking about without having to Google it?
    That would be me, but god bless you for filling in some of my blanks.

    And to answer the tread topic. Yes it is. We did it. My Native neighbors suffered it.
    See how beautiful we are and blessed, too. Together we are excellent.

  19. #19
    Get it on! peeonme's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by fabulouslyghetto View Post
    Isn't that exactly what the fuck the founding fathers did? except these immigrants aren't slaughtering everything that moves. once again white privelege rears it's ugly head. "you can't have this land, this is MY land and I get to choose who comes and goes, just ask all the dead ass natives i slaughtered who lived here before me." if the natives scrutinized the english settlers none of us would be here right now [nor would thousands of gallons of oil spills, the exctinct species list would be smaller, America would actually be fucking great]

    colonialism is one of the biggest historical ironies. taking shit from people then hoarding it to yourself cuz you don't want someone taking it from you, which by the way is not even what the immigrants are trying to do.
    So, I can go claim Canada? Nothing belongs to anyone because of what happened hundreds of years ago? That is not how it works, today, like it or not, nations have borders and recognize the right to control them in this modern world. Going with the 'it wasn't fair' song and dance is futile.

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    JUB Addict smokeshadow's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Mikey - why does it have to be America? Why can't anyone immigrate to any country he/she wishes, including the US of A? It shouldn't make any difference. Legally or illegally, it should be as easy to move from say Rio to Albuquerque as it is to move from Texarkana to Chicago. Or from Cairo to Istanbul. . .or Singapore to Jakarta.
    Last edited by smokeshadow; June 24th, 2018 at 12:09 PM.

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikey3000 View Post
    Mexican presidential candidate Andrés Manuel López Obrador (AMLO) called for mass immigration to the United States during a speech Tuesday declaring it a “human right we will defend” for all North Americans.

    “And soon, very soon — after the victory of our movement — we will defend all the migrants in the American continent and all the migrants in the world,” Obrador said, adding that immigrants “must leave their towns and find a life in the United States.”

    Do you agree with his statement?
    No I don't think everyone should come here, but it certainly is legal for anyone to ask the U.S. for asylum.
    Last edited by swmjck; June 24th, 2018 at 03:14 PM.

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    ***** queen fabulouslyghetto's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    So, I can go claim Canada? Nothing belongs to anyone because of what happened hundreds of years ago? That is not how it works, today, like it or not, nations have borders and recognize the right to control them in this modern world. Going with the 'it wasn't fair' song and dance is futile.
    I do not have to accept evil just because you tell me so, my people would still be in chains if we had to just "get over it, oh well life's not fair." It is NOT legal for someone to claim ownership over stolen land. It is NOT illegal to migrate onto stolen land. This anti-immigration is nothing more than the frightened dominant class afraid that brown people are taking over what was stolen from their ancestors in the first place-- an inconvenient truth the anti-immigration crowd avoids like the plague. Let them come here, as many as we can hold, and stop making them jump through hoops that the average American couldn't even do.

  23. #23
    On the Prowl Dystopian's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    We do...or should ought to ....be torn in our response the the original question to this thread: "Is it a Human Right to immigrate to America?" While I realize many think it is trite and overused, we are all immigrants to America. By what Right are we here? Many of our forebears came by choice to escape hunger, poverty, persecution, etc. Many came alone....even as teens, if not children. They were accepted. Had the same standards been applied in the 19th century as are applied today, we could not participate in this discussion. We would be in the UK, Germany, Italy, Ireland, Poland, Russia and looking in as observers of the Democratic Miracle which is America. Eventually quotas were adopted. Chinese, Jews, whomever were restricted. Now, we feel we are somehow threatened by the entry of Mexicans and Central Americans and, of course, Muslims into America. The first European immigrants, at least the WASPS came in search of religious freedom. Ironically, now there are forces that legislate moral tolerance based on the religious precepts of specific sects. How do we separate the basis of our country's existence from contemporary necessity? Or is it just prejudice? I suggest that there needs to be control. A wall is not a real answer. People should be able to apply and seek asylum, residency, citizenship etc. If there were a realistic, viable system in place, we wouldn't have this issue. By deporting thousands, if not tens of thousands of "illegals? what do we gain...you and I? How does this make our lives better? The issue is really legislation. The LAW. Or should the issue be Human Rights? Why would the two societal concepts be so disparate?

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    No, you do not have a right to migrate to America illegally. This concept of open border anarchy has gone on long enough ... not knowing who is in this country, people not paying taxes to contribute to our government, business owners using cheap labor and paying them less than minimum wage ... it has to stop.
    Telling it like it is.

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    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    So, I can go claim Canada? Nothing belongs to anyone because of what happened hundreds of years ago? That is not how it works, today, like it or not, nations have borders and recognize the right to control them in this modern world. Going with the 'it wasn't fair' song and dance is futile.
    This is silly, your citizenship is valid here for the exact same reason our ancestors called genocide legal, the right of superior firepower. Like it or not.
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    Get it on! peeonme's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by fabulouslyghetto View Post
    I do not have to accept evil just because you tell me so, my people would still be in chains if we had to just "get over it, oh well life's not fair." It is NOT legal for someone to claim ownership over stolen land. It is NOT illegal to migrate onto stolen land. This anti-immigration is nothing more than the frightened dominant class afraid that brown people are taking over what was stolen from their ancestors in the first place-- an inconvenient truth the anti-immigration crowd avoids like the plague. Let them come here, as many as we can hold, and stop making them jump through hoops that the average American couldn't even do.
    My people fought to set your people free, my people were abolitionists and soldiers with the Union.
    As for this law that you speak of, can you site case law or provide a link? Don't tell me to look it up, you make claims, back them up.

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    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by MystikWizard View Post
    No, you do not have a right to migrate to America illegally. This concept of open border anarchy has gone on long enough ... not knowing who is in this country, people not paying taxes to contribute to our government, business owners using cheap labor and paying them less than minimum wage ... it has to stop.
    What open borders have gone on "long enough?" The U.S. hasn't had an open border in my lifetime.
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    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    My people fought to set your people free, my people were abolitionists and soldiers with the Union.
    As for this law that you speak of, can you site case law or provide a link? Don't tell me to look it up, you make claims, back them up.
    Your people didn't fight to stop the slaughter of the people who's home they were squatting on, pushing out anchor babies on, pushing chain migration...
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    Get it on! peeonme's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Your people didn't fight to stop the slaughter of the people who's home they were squatting on, pushing out anchor babies on, pushing chain migration...
    I am not responsible for history.

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    I am not responsible for history.
    You are responsible for the history you make.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    You are responsible for the history you make.
    I will worry about mine, you take care of yours.

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    I will worry about mine, you take care of yours.
    ?

    Is that meant to be a snappy comeback?
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    ?

    Is that meant to be a snappy comeback?
    As snappy as you accusations about my history, of which you know nothing.

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    No, everyone cannot come to America anymore. This hasn't been so since some time in the middle of the 20th century. Things change. It would be ideal if all borders around the world were porous, but that isn't so. Europe is no longer as accepting of Syrians who are fleeing for their safety as they originally were. However, people fleeing for their safety should be given better consideration than what is happening now in the U.S.A.

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    JUB Addict mikey3000's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by fabulouslyghetto View Post
    I do not have to accept evil just because you tell me so, my people would still be in chains if we had to just "get over it, oh well life's not fair." It is NOT legal for someone to claim ownership over stolen land. It is NOT illegal to migrate onto stolen land. This anti-immigration is nothing more than the frightened dominant class afraid that brown people are taking over what was stolen from their ancestors in the first place-- an inconvenient truth the anti-immigration crowd avoids like the plague. Let them come here, as many as we can hold, and stop making them jump through hoops that the average American couldn't even do.
    Imagine what it would be like for "your people in chains" if they were never brought to America in the first place. Do you think they would've been better off?
    "Love me or hate me, both are in my favour."

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikey3000 View Post
    Imagine what it would be like for "your people in chains" if they were never brought to America in the first place. Do you think they would've been better off?
    What a nasty racist insinuation. You do your hero proud.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickrock View Post
    No, everyone cannot come to America anymore. This hasn't been so since some time in the middle of the 20th century. Things change. It would be ideal if all borders around the world were porous, but that isn't so. Europe is no longer as accepting of Syrians who are fleeing for their safety as they originally were. However, people fleeing for their safety should be given better consideration than what is happening now in the U.S.A.
    "Everyone" is not trying to come the U.S. lets dispense with the obfuscation and the fundamental dishonesty in the O.P. The undocumented are largely migrant workers who don't actually want to live here for the most part. You give them a safe way to cross the border and a legal way to work and they will go home regularly. They stay because they probably can't get back if they leave.

    We are NOT being "over-run" by anyone.

    Here is the fundamental lie in the whole debate, people who apply for asylum are obeying the law. Our law, that's been in place since forever. Trump and his apologizers in here are playing a racist game of dehumanization and prevarication in order to inflame the bigoted myth of White Nationalism.
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    ***** queen fabulouslyghetto's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikey3000 View Post
    Imagine what it would be like for "your people in chains" if they were never brought to America in the first place. Do you think they would've been better off?
    This is immeasurably inflammatory and you've turned the racist knob all the way to max this time, scale it back at least a little bit Mikey

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    ***** queen fabulouslyghetto's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    We are NOT being "over-run" by anyone.

    Here is the fundamental lie in the whole debate, people who apply for asylum are obeying the law. Our law, that's been in place since forever. Trump and his apologizers in here are playing a racist game of dehumanization and prevarication in order to inflame the bigoted myth of White Nationalism.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by fabulouslyghetto View Post
    Is it a human right to claim dominion over land you obtained by slaughtering the previous inhabitants, built via slavery and now try to dictate who can and can't enter that land? No. No it isn't.
    Yes. No country has escaped a history of stupid bloodshed and corruption and discrimination and inequality. Not one society has ever existed inside some magic bubble of utopia free of these problems. And yet countries with democratic processes and attempts to establish human rights have been the best top four our protection and the bearers of our deliverance. Countries. The authority of the State. The constitutional monarch. The court. The parliament. It works, and they are legitimate.
    Quote Originally Posted by fabulouslyghetto View Post
    Is it a human right for immigrants to enter a land inhabited by immigrants, founded by immigrants and maintained by immigrants? Yes. Interestingly enough nobody was concerned about immigration when they were doing America's work for free.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikey3000 View Post
    Mexican presidential candidate Andrés Manuel López Obrador (AMLO) called for mass immigration to the United States during a speech Tuesday declaring it a “human right we will defend” for all North Americans.

    “And soon, very soon — after the victory of our movement — we will defend all the migrants in the American continent and all the migrants in the world,” Obrador said, adding that immigrants “must leave their towns and find a life in the United States.”

    Do you agree with his statement?
    Immigrants have human rights whenever a country welcomes them past its borders.

    Illegal immigrants also have human rights whenever a country catches them, detains them, punished them, and deports them.

    There is no human right to move wherever you please. There are human rights that apply when anyone breaks the law. They’re called “human rights” not “rights for law abiding citizens only.”
    Last edited by opinterph; June 25th, 2018 at 02:20 AM. Reason: added attribution

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    So, I can go claim Canada? Nothing belongs to anyone because of what happened hundreds of years ago? That is not how it works, today, like it or not, nations have borders and recognize the right to control them in this modern world. Going with the 'it wasn't fair' song and dance is futile.
    Yup. Good point. And no you can’t claim Canada. Shouldn’t have even got your hands on Alaska imho, but that’s not even your problem, I’m angry at the British Empire. They sold us out.
    Quote Originally Posted by smokeshadow View Post
    Mikey - why does it have to be America? Why can't anyone immigrate to any country he/she wishes, including the US of A? It shouldn't make any difference. Legally or illegally, it should be as easy to move from say Rio to Albuquerque as it is to move from Texarkana to Chicago. Or from Cairo to Istanbul. . .or Singapore to Jakarta.
    Legally or illegally should make a hell of a difference. It’s the difference between “Yes, absolutely,” and “No fucking way.” But there are lots of places making it legal to move that easily. Europe has come a long way in 30 years. But by agreement of course.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Yup. Good point. And no you can’t claim Canada. Shouldn’t have even got your hands on Alaska imho, but that’s not even your problem, I’m angry at the British Empire. They sold us out.


    Legally or illegally should make a hell of a difference. It’s the difference between “Yes, absolutely,” and “No fucking way.” But there are lots of places making it legal to move that easily. Europe has come a long way in 30 years. But by agreement of course.
    Who is "claiming Canada" except your analogue of the people you pushed out up there?

    Come on, that was a bogus attempt to justify the dishonest racism pushed by the OP. People applying for asylum aren't "illegal" and when the law is designed to make it easy for white people to immigrate while throwing up impossible barriers for anyone brown, just saying well "illegal" is just a fig leaf over the racism.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    BTW back when Jr. was elected the second time, I looked into emigrating to Canada, and y'all couldn't have been more welcoming. Thanks.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    What open borders have gone on "long enough?" The U.S. hasn't had an open border in my lifetime.
    People who crossed over illegally were worried about "La Migra" as far back as the Seventies. (I can't really comment earlier than that.)

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Shouldn’t have even got your hands on Alaska imho, but that’s not even your problem, I’m angry at the British Empire. They sold us out
    Um, wait, I thought that Alaska was RUSSIAN territory, that we bought from them, and the UK had nothing to do with it?

    Interesting that the purchase ($7 million) happened in the same year as Confederation, though.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Everything I Ever Needed to Know I Learned in Kindergarten

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Fab, I'm interested in hearing what you'd like to see the immigration system become. I see problems with no mediated process at all namely in records keeping and getting taxes. This isn't to defend what we currently have in place simply that it seems to me that we probably do need a legal process for immigration which would seemingly mean illegal immigration would necessarily exist.

    My main issue with illegal immigration is a bit on the circular side which is that being here illegally gives other people an easy way to coerce people into doing (or not doing) things for fear of being outed and deported. We actually do benefit from this because it allows places to ignore the minimum wage standard and severely underpay their workers, allowing us to purchase items at a cheaper price. But this subversion of the law is really harmful because we're essentially being shielded from the full consequences of policies, meaning we don't know if those laws are fully viable or if they're actually unrealistic and in need of revision.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by fabulouslyghetto View Post
    Is it a human right to claim dominion over land you obtained by slaughtering the previous inhabitants, built via slavery and now try to dictate who can and can't enter that land? No. No it isn't.

    Is it a human right for immigrants to enter a land inhabited by immigrants, founded by immigrants and maintained by immigrants? Yes. Interestingly enough nobody was concerned about immigration when they were doing America's work for free.
    Oh please you act like America is somehow special in this regard. You do realize that every people on this planet were waging wars, enslaving people and stealing land. Oh and don't think that your African ancestors were exempt. Ever heard of King Adanzu II of Dahomey. The Dahomey Empire raided other nations killed massive swathes of other Africans and he was all too happy to sell the people he captured in war as slaves to the Arabs and Europeans. Hell the slaves who weren't sold were sacrificed in religious ceremonies called customs. There was Kings called the Adanggaman in Africa who were known for selling other Africans to the slavers. Hell the regressive leftists on this forum defend Muslims like the Palestinians all of the time in spite of the fact that every land Arab Islam has was stolen in jihad and forced conversions from disbelievers and Arabs were enslaving Africans before the Europeans and to this day enslave African people. Just listen to Kola Boof to see how people were treated in Palestine, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and other African countries. Black children there are sold for 14 dollars a head. They don't have plantations there but keep Black men and boys chained outside of the house like dogs and feed them with a doggie bowl, when it is time to work they take them off the leash. Black girls and women are kept inside the house, as sex slaves with their tongue's cut off so they can't talk and tell what is being done to them. Recently we had videos of slave markets in Libya where Black men, women and children were hung upside down and in cages by Arabs.

    So to use the excuse that this land was stolen so we can't police our borders is absurd. I am for anyone coming here provided they come legally and are vetted. Otherwise you will get shit like Cartels and Terrorists coming in.

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    Oh please you act like America is somehow special in this regard. You do realize that every people on this planet were waging wars, enslaving people and stealing land. Oh and don't think that your African ancestors were exempt. Ever heard of King Adanzu II of Dahomey. The Dahomey Empire raided other nations killed massive swathes of other Africans and he was all too happy to sell the people he captured in war as slaves to the Arabs and Europeans. Hell the slaves who weren't sold were sacrificed in religious ceremonies called customs. There was Kings called the Adanggaman in Africa who were known for selling other Africans to the slavers. Hell the regressive leftists on this forum defend Muslims like the Palestinians all of the time in spite of the fact that every land Arab Islam has was stolen in jihad and forced conversions from disbelievers and Arabs were enslaving Africans before the Europeans and to this day enslave African people. Just listen to Kola Boof to see how people were treated in Palestine, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and other African countries. Black children there are sold for 14 dollars a head. They don't have plantations there but keep Black men and boys chained outside of the house like dogs and feed them with a doggie bowl, when it is time to work they take them off the leash. Black girls and women are kept inside the house, as sex slaves with their tongue's cut off so they can't talk and tell what is being done to them. Recently we had videos of slave markets in Libya where Black men, women and children were hung upside down and in cages by Arabs.

    So to use the excuse that this land was stolen so we can't police our borders is absurd. I am for anyone coming here provided they come legally and are vetted. Otherwise you will get shit like Cartels and Terrorists coming in.
    Hell yes!

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Please, please can we just not go there and stay on the topic? Yes, we've had slavery around the world but it's been expressed and addressed in wildly different ways and having wildly different aftermaths. It is a whole involved topic that is worth having but really warrants it's own dedicated topic. In addition you don't know if Fab is okay with the immigration policies in those other countries so you're effectively strawmanning them. And can we please go ahead and agree that what is happening with the immigration from Mexico is abhorrent and desperately needs to change? I know neither one of you mentioned it but some common ground would be nice.
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    JUB Addict bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Who is "claiming Canada" except your analogue of the people you pushed out up there?

    Come on, that was a bogus attempt to justify the dishonest racism pushed by the OP. People applying for asylum aren't "illegal" and when the law is designed to make it easy for white people to immigrate while throwing up impossible barriers for anyone brown, just saying well "illegal" is just a fig leaf over the racism.
    My point is that modern countries are legitimate, and the citizens of any country have a right to decide who may come and go across the border, and who “stole” what from whom five hundred years ago is 100% totally irrelevant to that. Our countries and our borders are ours to secure. The only exception where someone can walk up to your border and say “I’m coming in” is when they are a refugee fleeing a situation they probably can’t survive. That the only time all of those free countries agreed to allow something like that, and they did it with treaties about refugees that they freely signed.

    Any other type of immigrant is there at the whim of the host country. There is just no right to move to a country you feel like and live there as long as you please. That is an imagined right. It doesn’t exist. People applying for asylum are literally LEGAL immigrants, even if they show up with fake papers, even if they sneak onto the plane. But they have to PROVE their claim of asylum to justify their actions, and then they have a RIGHT to enter. The discussions we have now are often about people who do not fit those criteria. They just came because they felt like it or they felt entitled, and it doesn’t help anyone to pretend otherwise.
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