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  1. #101
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Why are you so afraid of brown people?
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    (From linked article)
    Liberals don't like to talk about how many people Obama deported, or how many refugees his policies blocked from entry, or the nightmarish hoops legal immigrants had to jump through to gain admission, or differences in the way applicants from different countries were treated.
    And she bore him a son, and he called his name Gershom [that is, a stranger there]; for he said, “I have been a stranger in a strange land.” – Exodus 2:22 (KJ21)

  3. #103
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    (From linked article)
    Loss of cultural cohesion is a harm. … – David Frum
    Nearly half (48%) of white working-class Americans say, “things have changed so much that I often feel like a stranger in my own country.”

    It Was Cultural Anxiety That Drove White, Working-Class Voters to Trump (The Atlantic; May 2017)


    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Why are you so afraid of brown people?
    Many immigrant teens are being accused of gang affiliation and unlawfully detained.

    The Gang Crackdown (VIDEO 54:48; PBS Frontline; February 2018)
    Last edited by opinterph; July 4th, 2018 at 09:20 AM. Reason: late edit

  4. #104
    Slut Dystopian's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    I know of no one who believes in open borders (e.g., without visa, work permits, etc.). However, when I traveled within the EU on business extensively, it was pretty much a wave of the hand for arrival in Brussels. I just Googled the immigration requirements for Mexico. They have them. I'm not sure what they do with Americans sneaking into the country as undocumented "illegal" aliens to find a better life. Do they snatch our children from us and put them in closed Walmart stores while we go to prison? Not sure. Bet it hasn't come up. Here is a reference on how to apply for asylum in Mexico http://https://splinternews.com/here...t-o-1793855235. From the Splintr piece, "....Mexican law, which considers asylum requests from any foreigner who is persecuted on the basis of race, religion, nationality, or gender, or whose human rights have been violated." Something tells me they would look favorably on Americans fleeing the oppression of a Neo-Nazi regime that now seems increasingly inevitable for the United States. Hell, Blacks have had a great asylum argument for virtually ever. Since the Human Rights Act, while racial prejudice and oppression never went away, it has not previously been promoted, embraced and celebrated as de facto US Policy until most recently. To divert to the original question based on a speech by the now Mexican President AMLO, I think it is wise to depart from concrete thinking in understanding his remarks. He is challenging the isolationist policies of the United States and decrying the abuses of the Trump Administration in interpreting US immigration laws. He is not speaking literally of everyone in Mexico leaving their villages for the US. He is being hyperbolic, as POTUS has modeled time and time again.

  5. #105
    JUB Addict bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    You know what, that's just deceit. I can find plenty of people saying radical things, that doesn't mean that you get to paint Progressives with that same kind of brush. Perhaps I should scour the net and find all the Canadian racists and come in here and call you a bigot.

    COME ON. THERE IS NO BORDER CRISIS! There are no Syrians in Mexico.
    The progressive arguments you seem to identify with throughout this thread have that same radical basis, I wonder how you hadn't noticed that. I don't know why you now reject it but I'm delighted, this feels like a breakthrough. Maybe seeing it put so starkly has allowed you to reject it, in which case it was worth the trouble to have posted a clear example. But if you do have nothing to do with those arguments, it makes it a lot easier for us to join in fighting the terrible human rights abuses we see in Trump's cages full of children. And the more progressives who loudly and publicly reject that anarchist approach to the border, the easier it is to market better ideas in the public sphere and defeat all kinds of xenophobic border nonsense proposed by the Trump hardcore. The way to defeat his border policies is NOT to propose their direct opposite. A mirror image of stupid is still stupid. And remember, you are not running against Trump's knuckle dragging xenophobia. You are running against that, plus the stupid anarchist no-border bullshit from actual radical progressives, plus the PERCEPTION that Trump can paint of progressives based on those radicals. We have to spend as much time defeating all of those things.

    And by the way, just a random thought, insinuating that someone who understands all of that is a racist or "afraid of brown people," is just bullshit that delivers more voters to Trump. That rhetoric undermines migrant security and human rights. It's also exactly the kind of radical-progressive rhetoric I'm pointing out.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by bankside; July 4th, 2018 at 09:46 PM.
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  6. #106
    JUB Addict bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    And she bore him a son, and he called his name Gershom [that is, a stranger there]; for he said, “I have been a stranger in a strange land.” – Exodus 2:22 (KJ21)
    Myth and allegory struggle to settle in my brain. Even more so when the video is not available in my region due to rights restrictions. We need an open border.

    Attachment 1270370
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  7. #107
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    the video is not available in my region due to rights restrictions.
    Purely optional.

    Viewing not required.

    Image may disturb some viewers.


    Exodus
    Season 34 Episode 14 | 1h 54m 47s

    “Exodus,” a two-hour FRONTLINE special, tells the first-person stories of refugees and migrants fleeing war, persecution and hardship — drawing on footage filmed by the families themselves as they leave their homes on dangerous journeys in search of safety and refuge in Europe.

    Aired: 05/08/17
    Rating: NR

  8. #108
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    The progressive arguments you seem to identify with throughout this thread have that same radical basis, I wonder how you hadn't noticed that. I don't know why you now reject it but I'm delighted, this feels like a breakthrough. Maybe seeing it put so starkly has allowed you to reject it, in which case it was worth the trouble to have posted a clear example. But if you do have nothing to do with those arguments, it makes it a lot easier for us to join in fighting the terrible human rights abuses we see in Trump's cages full of children. And the more progressives who loudly and publicly reject that anarchist approach to the border, the easier it is to market better ideas in the public sphere and defeat all kinds of xenophobic border nonsense proposed by the Trump hardcore. The way to defeat his border policies is NOT to propose their direct opposite. A mirror image of stupid is still stupid. And remember, you are not running against Trump's knuckle dragging xenophobia. You are running against that, plus the stupid anarchist no-border bullshit from actual radical progressives, plus the PERCEPTION that Trump can paint of progressives based on those radicals. We have to spend as much time defeating all of those things.

    And by the way, just a random thought, insinuating that someone who understands all of that is a racist or "afraid of brown people," is just bullshit that delivers more voters to Trump. That rhetoric undermines migrant security and human rights. It's also exactly the kind of radical-progressive rhetoric I'm pointing out.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Bullshit. I haven't made any "progressive" arguments. I've made humanitarian arguments, and not once in here have I argued for or against borders or nations or any other abstract silliness, because that is all just smokescreen thrown up to obscure the simple fact that Trump and associates attempted to use kidnapping as a punishment and deterrent for claiming asylum in the U.S.

    You can't vote for Trump so I am unafraid of that eventuality. Honestly do you think anyone is going to decide how to vote based on this little spat? You can change how people vote however by sticking to the germane point.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  9. #109
    Get it on! peeonme's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    It's a human right to try to do so. It's also a human right to tell them no.

  10. #110
    ***** queen fabulouslyghetto's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    It's also a human right to tell them no.
    No. No it's not. It's not a human right to set up shop on stolen land. And no one with a modicum of human decency would do so. Of course the operative word there is "decency."

  11. #111
    JUB Addict willhunt's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by fabulouslyghetto View Post
    No. No it's not. It's not a human right to set up shop on stolen land. And no one with a modicum of human decency would do so. Of course the operative word there is "decency."
    I have Navajo, Apache, Ute and 8 Pueblos friends who point out that the whole sham is run by palefaces. Lies, bigotry, thievery, terrorism and prejudice are not "decency." I have two Ute friends who were waylayed for two days because they looked Mexican. Natives mistaken for intruders. THANKS TRUMP, you orange painted paleface.
    Basic math: There are so many apples in the bushel... Reality: Some of us are picking apples we cannot afford. - ballcaphair

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Why are you so afraid of brown people?
    THANK. YOU. this is live footage of me waiting for someone to give a non-racist reason to be so heavily anti-immigration


  13. #113
    Can you hear me yet?
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    ^ I wouldn't be caught dead wearing that tie.
    "You can't have everything. Where would you put it?" - Steven Wright

  14. #114
    Get it on! peeonme's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by fabulouslyghetto View Post
    No. No it's not. It's not a human right to set up shop on stolen land. And no one with a modicum of human decency would do so. Of course the operative word there is "decency."
    I have never stole anyone's land.

  15. #115
    JUB Addict willhunt's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    I have never stole anyone's land.
    If you're not a native. You're a thief and a squatter, regardless how many degrees of separation. Oh yeah, and so am I.
    Basic math: There are so many apples in the bushel... Reality: Some of us are picking apples we cannot afford. - ballcaphair

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    I have never stole anyone's land.
    Just because you yourself personally didn't steal it doesn't mean it's not stolen.

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    ^ I wouldn't be caught dead wearing that tie.
    are you kidding? with a red or forest green button down that tie would pop.

  18. #118

    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    What is "American" culture?

  19. #119
    Get it on! peeonme's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by willhunt View Post
    If you're not a native. You're a thief and a squatter, regardless how many degrees of separation. Oh yeah, and so am I.
    I was born here, I am a native to this land, my ancestors migrated to the Americas just as the so-called indians did, damed homo-sapians stole Europe from the Neanderthals too you know. How far back do you want to go?

  20. #120
    JUB Addict willhunt's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    I was born here, I am a native to this land, my ancestors migrated to the Americas just as the so-called indians did, damed homo-sapians stole Europe from the Neanderthals too you know. How far back do you want to go?
    America.
    Basic math: There are so many apples in the bushel... Reality: Some of us are picking apples we cannot afford. - ballcaphair

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by willhunt View Post
    America.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas
    The Americas (also collectively called America)[5][6][7] comprise the totality of the continents of North and South America.[8][9][10] Together, they make up most of the land in Earth's western hemisphere[11][12][13][14][15][16] and comprise the New World.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic
    The term Hispanic (Spanish: hispano or hispánico) broadly refers to the people, nations, and cultures that have a historical link to Spain.

    It commonly applies to countries once under colonial possession by the Spanish Empire following Spanish colonization of the Americas, parts of the Asia-Pacific region and Africa.
    Those who are seeking asylum or migrating from central and south America are not necessarily indigenous to Mexico, or any of the other countries that they come from, during Spanish colonization they interbred, spread disease to the natives or ran them off of the land, does this sound familiar? So now the Hispanic people who stole the land from the original migrants have decided that they like the land the we, according to you and others, stole from the 'Indians'.

    I am all for giving asylum to those who are truly in need, but that doesn't mean that they can walk in without going through the proper channels.
    Last edited by opinterph; July 9th, 2018 at 07:43 PM. Reason: added quote tags

  22. #122
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas
    The Americas (also collectively called America)[5][6][7] comprise the totality of the continents of North and South America.[8][9][10] Together, they make up most of the land in Earth's western hemisphere[11][12][13][14][15][16] and comprise the New World.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic
    The term Hispanic (Spanish: hispano or hispánico) broadly refers to the people, nations, and cultures that have a historical link to Spain.

    It commonly applies to countries once under colonial possession by the Spanish Empire following Spanish colonization of the Americas, parts of the Asia-Pacific region and Africa.

    Those who are seeking asylum or migrating from central and south America are not necessarily indigenous to Mexico, or any of the other countries that they come from, during Spanish colonization they interbred, spread disease to the natives or ran them off of the land, does this sound familiar? So now the Hispanic people who stole the land from the original migrants have decided that they like the land the we, according to you and others, stole from the 'Indians'.
    What? Let's parse this hackneyed logic shall we. Latinos aren't entitled to move about the continent because they aren't Native Americans but actually some kind of Spanish who murdered the actual natives? Because some of them have Spanish ancestors. Right.

    But you who have no Native American ancestors whatsoever get to claim the continent because your European ancestors came here on their own. So what is the actual reason you don't want them?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    I am all for giving asylum to those who are truly in need, but that doesn't mean that they can walk in without going through the proper channels.
    No you aren't. If you were you would acknowledge that these people TRIED TO GO THROUGH THE PROPER CHANNELS were arrested without hearing, had their children kidnapped and put in cages as a punishment, then sent off to secret locations with no records of where and no intention of ever returning them.

    Your entire spiel is just silliness, ignorance about who these people are and a reactionary attempt to justify whatever reason you actually have to want to keep them out.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  23. #123
    JUB Addict bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    This is the part of your argument that is exactly right, covers the relevant points, and will make a difference to these kids and their families by losing Trump votes that he could count on:
    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    ...these people TRIED TO GO THROUGH THE PROPER CHANNELS were arrested without hearing, had their children kidnapped and put in cages as a punishment, then sent off to secret locations with no records of where and no intention of ever returning them.
    This is the “progressive border nonsense” I keep complaing about, because not only is it ahistoric and not vey principled, it puts votes in Trump’s pocket. Even if you believe this, in the name of strategy, why would you repeat it? People, specifically Americans, will vote for a hard and merciless border when you tell them some story about ancestry making the border illegitimate and that anyone is entitled to cross it without their permission. Seriously, please stop helping Trump with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    What? Let's parse this hackneyed logic shall we. Latinos aren't entitled to move about the continent because they aren't Native Americans but actually some kind of Spanish who murdered the actual natives? Because some of them have Spanish ancestors. Right.

    But you who have no Native American ancestors whatsoever get to claim the continent because your European ancestors came here on their own. So what is the actual reason you don't want them?
    Last edited by opinterph; July 14th, 2018 at 11:25 AM. Reason: added attribution
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  24. #124
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    ...This is the “progressive border nonsense” I keep complaing about, because not only is it ahistoric and not vey principled, it puts votes in Trump’s pocket. Even if you believe this, in the name of strategy, why would you repeat it? People, specifically Americans, will vote for a hard and merciless border when you tell them some story about ancestry making the border illegitimate and that anyone is entitled to cross it without their permission. Seriously, please stop helping Trump with this:
    Bankside, there is nothing in that post about borders. It's a response to the previous guy and his rank hypocrisy. First off I have never heard a Progressive say what you claim we are saying. Second since I've never said it, I certainly can't repeat it. "People" and specifically Americans reacted with disgust to Trump's "hard and merciless border." So much so that Americans are chasing them down in public to shame them.

    He made a drastic error in thinking that the totality of the U.S. would support that kind of thing. His supporters no doubt are racist ass-hats who use this imaginary crisis as a fig leaf to hate on brown people. There is ZERO THREAT TO THE BORDER, we are not being "over-run" by anyone. The majority of illegal border crossings are migrant labor who have been crossing that border far longer than you have been alive, and guess what, no border threat.

    REPUBLICANS could easily end this situation, there are plenty of options available, they control the government - but they won't end this situation, because just like in the 80's when gay people were the great existential threat, they get traction out of their racist base by promoting the fear of the great brown horde.

    That's all, nothing else.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  25. #125
    JUB Addict willhunt's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    ^ Exactly this.
    Without splitting intangible hairs, or being described as "progressive," or beating anyone over the head. The Republicans, the Base and the realDonald are no degrees of seperation away from cruel bigoted bullies. Period.
    Basic math: There are so many apples in the bushel... Reality: Some of us are picking apples we cannot afford. - ballcaphair

  26. #126
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    If I follow the logic of those posting that say the USA has no rightful claim on the land that we inhabit because we stole it, that would render all titles and deeds to be invalid. So what ever property that you claim possession too is not really yours at all.

    If you come home one day and a family has moved in to your home you would have no resources under the law to reclaim your home because it was not yours. In fact, you should be arrested for being in possession of stolen property.

    Hand over your car keys as well, the money that you used to purchase it was paid to you and you were not a legal wage earner because
    you are not 'native American'.

    The feeble 'you don't like brown people' argument is absurd. If they enter legally it's fine by me. If Canadians were sneaking into the USA
    I would pose the same argument and I would expect them to say the same about Americans if we went to Canada without permission.
    It's called the rule of law.

  27. #127
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    If I follow the logic of those posting that say the USA has no rightful claim on the land that we inhabit because we stole it, that would render all titles and deeds to be invalid. So what ever property that you claim possession too is not really yours at all.

    If you come home one day and a family has moved in to your home you would have no resources under the law to reclaim your home because it was not yours. In fact, you should be arrested for being in possession of stolen property.

    Hand over your car keys as well, the money that you used to purchase it was paid to you and you were not a legal wage earner because
    you are not 'native American'.

    The feeble 'you don't like brown people' argument is absurd. If they enter legally it's fine by me. If Canadians were sneaking into the USA
    I would pose the same argument and I would expect them to say the same about Americans if we went to Canada without permission.
    It's called the rule of law.
    Dude, the law says that receiving stolen property does not transfer title. So LEGALLY if your parents stole the house in the first place, it's not yours!

    Anyway most people are reacting to your ridiculous attempts to justify what looks like an irrational fear.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Dude, the law says that receiving stolen property does not transfer title. So LEGALLY if your parents stole the house in the first place, it's not yours!

    Anyway most people are reacting to your ridiculous attempts to justify what looks like an irrational fear.
    I am talking about your house, if you are not 'native' American, then hand over the keys. Follow your own rules.

  29. #129
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    I am talking about your house, if you are not 'native' American, then hand over the keys. Follow your own rules.
    My house is as stolen as yours. That's not "my rules" that's the fact. You are getting shit because you are pretending that isn't the case, when your entire claim to being "American" is based on the exact same thing you claim other people have no right to copy.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    JUB Addict bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Bankside, there is nothing in that post about borders. It's a response to the previous guy and his rank hypocrisy. First off I have never heard a Progressive say what you claim we are saying. Second since I've never said it, I certainly can't repeat it. "People" and specifically Americans reacted with disgust to Trump's "hard and merciless border." So much so that Americans are chasing them down in public to shame them.

    He made a drastic error in thinking that the totality of the U.S. would support that kind of thing. His supporters no doubt are racist ass-hats who use this imaginary crisis as a fig leaf to hate on brown people. There is ZERO THREAT TO THE BORDER, we are not being "over-run" by anyone. The majority of illegal border crossings are migrant labor who have been crossing that border far longer than you have been alive, and guess what, no border threat.

    REPUBLICANS could easily end this situation, there are plenty of options available, they control the government - but they won't end this situation, because just like in the 80's when gay people were the great existential threat, they get traction out of their racist base by promoting the fear of the great brown horde.

    That's all, nothing else.

    You literally spend half the thread talking about “stolen” land and arguing against the territorial integrity of your country (because dead people imposed a legal system and land ownership on other dead people long before anywhere had a legal system that properly recognised human rights, in an era where might made right.)

    When you question the territorial integrity or legitimacy of your own country, of COURSE you are talking about borders, and of COURSE you know that, because otherwise you wouldn’t mention it in a thread about borders. You’re not off talking about “stolen land” in a thread about “share your favourite recipes” (Moroccan lamb meatballs at the moment btw).

    My point is that the political rhetoric about “stolen” land, the territorial integrity/legitimacy of your country because of that, and the consequence you think it has for today’s borders (they are all tied together) is driving people to support Trump. I would bet my life on it. I would bet the lives of children in cages on it. One of your arguments happens to be right, and it also works very effectively. The other one, we can debate how wrong it is if you like, but my main point now is that it firms up Trump supporters or drives undecideds to his camp.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    You literally spend half the thread talking about “stolen” land and arguing against the territorial integrity of your country (because dead people imposed a legal system and land ownership on other dead people long before anywhere had a legal system that properly recognised human rights, in an era where might made right.)

    When you question the territorial integrity or legitimacy of your own country, of COURSE you are talking about borders, and of COURSE you know that, because otherwise you wouldn’t mention it in a thread about borders. You’re not off talking about “stolen land” in a thread about “share your favourite recipes” (Moroccan lamb meatballs at the moment btw).

    My point is that the political rhetoric about “stolen” land, the territorial integrity/legitimacy of your country because of that, and the consequence you think it has for today’s borders (they are all tied together) is driving people to support Trump. I would bet my life on it. I would bet the lives of children in cages on it. One of your arguments happens to be right, and it also works very effectively. The other one, we can debate how wrong it is if you like, but my main point now is that it firms up Trump supporters or drives undecideds to his camp.
    All of which is about people claiming legitimacy based on their immigrant ancestors then claiming no one else has the same "right."
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    My house is as stolen as yours. That's not "my rules" that's the fact. You are getting shit because you are pretending that isn't the case, when your entire claim to being "American" is based on the exact same thing you claim other people have no right to copy.
    I am not getting shit, however, as a SJW you need to lead by example. Find some undocumented people and give them your home and belongings. You have no right to these things by your own word.

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    All of which is about people claiming legitimacy based on their immigrant ancestors then claiming no one else has the same "right."
    No one else except recognized citizens of a country have any right to decide the rules of their border. Provided those rules match any international treaty obligations (obligations also made under the authority of the recognized citizens of that country).

    Thats the only legitimacy test that counts. What do the citizens want to happen at their border, and what treaties did that citizenry previously agree to live up to?
    Last edited by bankside; July 10th, 2018 at 12:10 PM.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by willhunt View Post
    ^ Exactly this.
    Without splitting intangible hairs, or being described as "progressive," or beating anyone over the head. The Republicans, the Base and the realDonald are no degrees of seperation away from cruel bigoted bullies. Period.
    They are bullies, definitely. The question is how to stop them. On one side of those split hairs are strategies that will work. On The other side, strategies that just see this assclown get re-elected.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    ^Exactly this too.
    I completely agree. We are arguing about arguing for the sake of arguing. As I see it we are all looking at the same solution from different perspectives. I think we are blinding one another. None of us want to see infants used as political footballs by anyone.
    Basic math: There are so many apples in the bushel... Reality: Some of us are picking apples we cannot afford. - ballcaphair

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    No one else except recognized citizens of a country have any right to decide the rules of their border. Provided those rules match any international treaty obligations (obligations also made under the authority of the recognized citizens of that country).

    Thats the only legitimacy test that counts. What do the citizens want to happen at their border, and what treaties did that citizenry previously agree to live up to?
    Then why aren't people saying that? Because their objection has nothing to do with laws and everything to do with the color of one's skin.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    I am not getting shit, however, as a SJW you need to lead by example. Find some undocumented people and give them your home and belongings. You have no right to these things by your own word.
    My family has sponsored migrant workers for decades - you as a Trump minion should stop pretending you care about laws.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    My family has sponsored migrant workers for decades - you as a Trump minion should stop pretending you care about laws.
    Sponsoring migrant workers doesn't make up for stealing land.

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by willhunt View Post
    ^Exactly this too.
    I completely agree. We are arguing about arguing for the sake of arguing. As I see it we are all looking at the same solution from different perspectives. I think we are blinding one another. None of us want to see infants used as political footballs by anyone.
    Nah, we are arguing so we don't pick the arguments on the wrong side of the split hair that let Trump get away with all of this. And I'm still hearing the wrong arguments, three pages into this thread.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    Sponsoring migrant workers doesn't make up for stealing land.
    That was well played.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    I'm takin' my ball and goin' home.
    Basic math: There are so many apples in the bushel... Reality: Some of us are picking apples we cannot afford. - ballcaphair

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by willhunt View Post
    I'm takin' my ball and goin' home.
    I left the game pages ago.
    "You can't have everything. Where would you put it?" - Steven Wright

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    Sponsoring migrant workers doesn't make up for stealing land.
    Neither does pretending one's hypocrisy and racism is somehow about law.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by willhunt View Post
    I'm takin' my ball and goin' home.
    We're not going to make any progress because certain parties are unwilling to voice their actual objection.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Nah, we are arguing so we don't pick the arguments on the wrong side of the split hair that let Trump get away with all of this. And I'm still hearing the wrong arguments, three pages into this thread.
    Trump didn't get away with this, he's gone back to Obama's policy. Because unlike some posters in here, most of America was horrified.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Neither does pretending one's hypocrisy and racism is somehow about law.
    The true hypocrisy is in sanctimoniously shaming your fellow man for stealing land while you live on stolen land. Give back that land.

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    The true hypocrisy is in sanctimoniously shaming your fellow man for stealing land while you live on stolen land. Give back that land.
    True hypocrisy is sanctimoniously claiming you have a "right" as an immigrant then telling other people to fuck off. Or are you ready to admit your objection is something else entirely.
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    True hypocrisy is sanctimoniously claiming you have a "right" as an immigrant then telling other people to fuck off. Or are you ready to admit your objection is something else entirely.
    I didn't immigrate, I was born here. I have told no one to 'fuck off'. I don't buy in to your 'stolen land' argument, I had nothing to do with the displacement of native Americans.
    However, it is an issue for you inasmuch as you freely admit that you are a land thief, how do you sleep at night?

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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    I didn't immigrate, I was born here. I have told no one to 'fuck off'. I don't buy in to your 'stolen land' argument, I had nothing to do with the displacement of native Americans.
    However, it is an issue for you inasmuch as you freely admit that you are a land thief, how do you sleep at night?
    Well since I have no land to give to anyone my sleep is undisturbed. Though is has been amusing to see you flail on about it while you studiously ignore any actual point. if you aren't an immigrant than you are an anchor baby!

    Will you FINALLY admit that the people trying to seek asylum TRIED TO FOLLOW THE LAW? Or are you just going to ignore that yet again in your attempt to pretend that your objection is somehow legal?
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    I didn't immigrate, I was born here. I have told no one to 'fuck off'. I don't buy in to your 'stolen land' argument, I had nothing to do with the displacement of native Americans.
    However, it is an issue for you inasmuch as you freely admit that you are a land thief, how do you sleep at night?
    BTW I also was born here so by your own logic you are a huge hypocrite for telling me to give things away!
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    Re: Is it a human right to immigrate to America?

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    True hypocrisy is sanctimoniously claiming you have a "right" as an immigrant then telling other people to fuck off. Or are you ready to admit your objection is something else entirely.
    An American citizen literally has a right, with not a hint of hypocrisy, to close the border and tell everyone to fuck off. EXCEPT for a refugee, because a whole bunch of American citizens already voted for a government to sign a treaty requiring it to accept refugees. Again this stolen land nonsense just fills airtime when you could be making the case for why it would be dumb to close the border. The right is there though
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