Free Gay Sex Photos, Movies, Reviews and Forums at JustUsBoys
Results 1 to 29 of 29
  1. #1
    The world is new NotHardUp1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Location
    Rocket City
    Posts
    8,615


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    There has been a lot of buzz about some states barring convicted criminals from voting forever after conviction. I'm unequivocally in favor of all free citizens voting. I think incarceration means the suspension of many rights until released, so I don't feel the same about enfranchisement of prisoners, but I'd not vote against it if it were to come up in a referendum.

    What seems to be missing from the supposed controversy of barring ex-prisoners is what is the actual impact of enfranchisement is, or more to the point, what the effect of disenfranchisement is. I looked online but have not been able to find any statistics on the percentage of US criminals who voted before incarceration. That would seem relevant, as the fight to enfranchise seems to assume that the population is prone to vote.

    Does anyone know of any reliable data on the question.

    There are some general demographis here, but not that specific. It doesn't seem like anyone has thought to ask it.

    https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ecp.pdf

  2. #2
    Sex God
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    583


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    I'm not even sold on the notion that prisoners shouldn't be able to vote while still in prison.
    Why shouldn't they be allowed to vote?
    ⣀⣤⣶⣿⣯⣅⣀⣤⣶⣿⣯⣅⣀⣤⣶⣿⣯⣅⣀⣤⣶⣿⣯⣅⣀⣤⣶⣿⣯⣅

  3. #3
    The world is new NotHardUp1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Location
    Rocket City
    Posts
    8,615


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    My guess is that the denial would have been part of the punishment of their conviction, just like they no longer have liberty or the option of pursuit of happiness either.

  4. #4
    JUB Addict Telstra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    39,911


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    I don't see any good reason why people out of prison cannot vote.
    If they don't give a good reason, the law is stupid. Send the ones who make this law to jail is fair if their reasons are stupid !!!
    Victim of PC police. Some of the PC police are good at making untrue things up about other jub members.

  5. #5
    Salt In The Wounds. Cormac135's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    67,292


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    They should be allowed to vote while in prison, hell if enough of them did it perhaps they could get rid of some politicians who are in favour of the death penalty, save their arses from the drop.

  6. #6
    Get it on! peeonme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Married
    Posts
    10,069


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    I am against prisoners voting, I can see where selling votes might get special privileges or they might be coerced into voting a certain way.
    After their release full rights should be restored.

  7. #7
    JUB Addict bankside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Location
    Beware the deepity.
    Posts
    18,825


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    There is a good case to restrict prisoners from voting while they are serving a sentence. They didn’t respect the law. Why should they now be allowed to claim an interest in writing it?

    But restricting that right forever is unethical. Most crimes have limited sentences because they deserve a sentence that ends, not one that goes on forever. It means that when the sentence is done, they’re a free citizen again. A lifetime ban on voting would only be correct for someone who commits serious voter fraud, or someone who works with a foreign power to undermine the possibility of a free election or something. If some asshole attacks democracy itself, then a ban from the process fits the crime. But that’s the only case.

  8. #8
    JUB Addict
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Status
    Single
    Location
    Middleburg Hts (Cleveland)
    Posts
    3,733


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    I agree with peeonme that prisoners should not be able to vote, but do believe that they should be able to vote once they are out of prison.

  9. #9
    Slippery When Wet
    swerve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    12,659
    Blog Entries
    1


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    As usual -- Bankside has posted the CORRECT response -- even though I'd probably personally allow inmates to vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    I am against prisoners voting, I can see where selling votes might get special privileges or they might be coerced into voting a certain way.
    After their release full rights should be restored.
    This is just ridiculous -- if that was the basis for a "right" to vote -- a LOT of people (both inside and outside the system) wouldn't be allowed to vote...
    "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it..." Goethe

  10. #10
    Inactive MakeDigitalLove's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Brandon
    Posts
    9,361
    Blog Entries
    9


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    I don't see any good reason why people out of prison cannot vote.
    If they don't give a good reason, the law is stupid. Send the ones who make this law to jail is fair if their reasons are stupid !!!
    Well there are plenty of reasons for laws and they are stupid.

  11. #11
    Get it on! peeonme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Married
    Posts
    10,069


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    As usual -- Bankside has posted the CORRECT response -- even though I'd probably personally allow inmates to vote.



    This is just ridiculous -- if that was the basis for a "right" to vote -- a LOT of people (both inside and outside the system) wouldn't be allowed to vote...
    I am not sure that you make yourself clear,
    if that was the basis for a "right" to vote
    The basis for a right to vote is the constitution of the United States, the basis for denial of the right to vote is in this context incarceration. I mentioned why prisoners (outside of breaking the law) should not be allowed to vote in response to prior post(s) where some thought that prisoners should be allowed to vote. We have a large enough prison population that could create a voting block that could swing elections. It's very easy to see prisoners bribed into voting a certain way.

    What is ridiculous is your attack on my post.

  12. #12
    The world is new NotHardUp1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Location
    Rocket City
    Posts
    8,615


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    There is a good case to restrict prisoners from voting while they are serving a sentence. They didnít respect the law. Why should they now be allowed to claim an interest in writing it?

    But restricting that right forever is unethical. Most crimes have limited sentences because they deserve a sentence that ends, not one that goes on forever. It means that when the sentence is done, theyíre a free citizen again. A lifetime ban on voting would only be correct for someone who commits serious voter fraud, or someone who works with a foreign power to undermine the possibility of a free election or something. If some asshole attacks democracy itself, then a ban from the process fits the crime. But thatís the only case.
    I concur that the lifetime ban would be appropriate for treason or similar crimes.

    Sadly, I think of people Snowden when I hear that, yet I think him a hero, not a traitor. Our government should not be Big Brother. I'm against spying on citizens. They can spy on foreign entities all they want. Heck, there should be someone tracking Telly all the time.
    Last edited by NotHardUp1; May 17th, 2018 at 03:13 AM.

  13. #13
    coleos patentes rareboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    60,952


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    If the US will allow a convicted criminal to serve in the Senate, every citizen should have the right to vote.

    America's over the top incarceration frenzy was as much a voter suppression tactic as anything.

  14. #14
    The world is new NotHardUp1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Location
    Rocket City
    Posts
    8,615


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    What a humorous claim to make from abroad at that. The prisons swelled under Republicans and Democrats alike, unless you believe them going Green would play into the hands of . . . ?

    Flat earth as far as the eye can see.

  15. #15
    JUB Addict bankside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Location
    Beware the deepity.
    Posts
    18,825


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    As usual -- Bankside has posted the CORRECT response -- even though I'd probably personally allow inmates to vote.
    I am at your service whenever a correct opinion is required.

    also I’d agree at least about some prisoners. For some small crimes, the punishment can be a fine, or jail time. If the guilty individual can afford the fine, they could go home and vote, having paid their debt to society. If they can’t or won’t oay, they end up in jail for a short stint. Since the same punishment comes in two versions, I don’t think either way should stop a prisoner in that situation from voting.

  16. #16
    In mourning for America.
    frankfrank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Location
    Chicago!! (A big city, but my country is DYING!)
    Posts
    20,187
    Blog Entries
    7


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    If the US will allow a convicted criminal to serve in the Senate, every citizen should have the right to vote.

    America's over the top incarceration frenzy was as much a voter suppression tactic as anything.
    I've always said there should even be voting on Death Row.

    Voting should be considered as one of the most basic of all human rights, conditional only on age and official residency...and nothing else.
    "Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking." -The Scarecrow, WIZARD OF OZ, 1939
    If you think that fertilized eggs are PEOPLE, and refugees AREN'T, *YOU* are the problem.
    Make, for a man, a fire - and he'll be warm for a few hours. Set a man afire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
    "MAKE ORWELL FICTION AGAIN!" This is my response to MAGA.

  17. #17
    coleos patentes rareboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    60,952


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    Van Jones and many others have discussed how mass incarceration has effectively resulted in voter suppression.

    The War on drugs was, in fact, recognized as an effective voter suppression tactic.....particularly because in many states, ex-felons could not vote.

    https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...nes-13th-trump

  18. #18
    Slippery When Wet
    swerve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    12,659
    Blog Entries
    1


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    Voting should be considered as one of the most basic of all human rights, conditional only on age and official residency...and nothing else.
    I have some really good friends that are originally from Brazil (they have dual citizenship). It is REQUIRED for them to vote in Brazil's elections (they have to travel to an embassy to fulfill their "duty") -- if they don't -- they are fined!

    Now that is EXTREME!!!

    EDIT: Sorry for going a little off-topic
    "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it..." Goethe

  19. #19
    The world is new NotHardUp1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Location
    Rocket City
    Posts
    8,615


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    EDIT: Sorry for going a little off-topic
    I hardly think it off topic. The thread is about prison and voting, so any eddies that swirl from that are on topic.

  20. #20
    Porn Star
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Posts
    310


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    I suspect many of those incarcerated have mental health problems but prison is meant to protect society and punish the perp - for the latter reason rights of a citizen should be suspended for incarceration but no longer
    Last edited by Nealm1; May 18th, 2018 at 06:17 PM.

  21. #21
    Relaxed
    medic1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Married
    Location
    Edinburgh Scotland
    Posts
    17,848
    Blog Entries
    12


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    There is a lot of political pressure being put on our First Minister just now about this.

    A Scottish cross-party committee has said that prisoners should be allowed to vote, all of them. At the moment only those on a Tag, or remand can vote.

    My POV is, that if you are serving a sentence, then you have by your actions, recused yourself from that "right".

  22. #22
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Status
    Partnered
    Location
    Jawja
    Posts
    27,777
    Blog Entries
    9


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    I looked online but have not been able to find any statistics on the percentage of US criminals who voted before incarceration. That would seem relevant, as the fight to enfranchise seems to assume that the population is prone to vote.

    Does anyone know of any reliable data on the question.
    A 2007 report based only on data from North Carolina suggests Ö

    Twenty-nine percent of people convicted of felonies were registered to vote prior to being convicted of their first felony, compared with 65% of the general population. [Link]
    The report notes that other factors may be involved in reaching a conclusion, such as educational and other disadvantages, age (young people are generally less likely to participate in politics), and marital status.

  23. #23
    The world is new NotHardUp1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Location
    Rocket City
    Posts
    8,615


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    That is exactly my point. Only one in three could have ever voted in the first place. And for those registered, we by no means see anywhere near 100% of us using our right to vote.

    And of course it is driven by education, sex, race, poverty, and age, just like the factors that led the prisoners to lives of crime.

    Again, I'm not against prisoners voting, but it seems a bit of a red herring, and if you were to offer a prisoner a choice on his release between $1000 and foregoing his voting privileges for 10 years, I have high confidence that a huge majority would take the money because they know that they've not voted regularly before, so what's to lose?

    Still, let them vote when released. It's a non-issue with no impact other than a bone in the culture wars.

    It's actually amusing to contemplate the candidates NOT wanting the endorsement of the Prisoners' Voting League.
    Last edited by NotHardUp1; May 19th, 2018 at 05:46 AM.

  24. #24
    JUB Addict bankside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Location
    Beware the deepity.
    Posts
    18,825


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    My guess is that the denial would have been part of the punishment of their conviction, just like they no longer have liberty or the option of pursuit of happiness either.
    Quote Originally Posted by medic1 View Post
    There is a lot of political pressure being put on our First Minister just now about this.

    A Scottish cross-party committee has said that prisoners should be allowed to vote, all of them. At the moment only those on a Tag, or remand can vote.

    My POV is, that if you are serving a sentence, then you have by your actions, recused yourself from that "right".
    These distinctions are very important. Someone remanded to custody and yet to be convicted of any crime absolutely must be able to vote. Stripping the vote makes far more sense as a specific punishment relevant to the type or magnitude of the crime for which someone has actually been convicted. (provided that exclusion expires when the sentence does.)

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    A 2007 report based only on data from North Carolina suggests …



    The report notes that other factors may be involved in reaching a conclusion, such as educational and other disadvantages, age (young people are generally less likely to participate in politics), and marital status.
    Thank you for finding this. As always, the inescapably relevant part is buried in the notes. Those "other factors" should not be compounded by a hasty or blanket exclusion from democratic rights.


    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    That is exactly my point. Only one in three could have ever voted in the first place. And for those registered, we by no means see anywhere near 100% of us using our right to vote.

    And of course it is driven by education, sex, race, poverty, and age, just like the factors that led the prisoners to lives of crime.

    Again, I'm not against prisoners voting, but it seems a bit of a red herring, and if you were to offer a prisoner a choice on his release between $1000 and foregoing his voting privileges for 10 years, I have high confidence that a huge majority would take the money because they know that they've not voted regularly before, so what's to lose?

    Still, let them vote when released. It's a non-issue with no impact other than a bone in the culture wars.
    You point out the limited practical applicability of making a big stink over this, and maybe it's real-world relevance compared with other issues, but what's your view on the symbolism of it? Democratic rights are some of the most essential, and in my view they require not only practical protections but symbolic. And if someone can be bribed with a hundred dollars a year to ensure their own survival, the vote is probably the most important of their tools and the last that should be relinquished. In the famine, sickness, poverty and distress of Sudan, and every other failed nation, they don't fight for apartments and satellite TV, they fight for government.


    --
    Also just going to point out a continuing flaw with US democracy: "Registration" shouldn't be a thing. The fact that someone is of age and has nationality is enough to vote on voting day, provided they are not subject to a specific, judicially-reviewed exclusion. Some invented administrative procedure should never be a barrier to voting. "Voter Registration" is in itself an anti-democratic intrusion on that right. Imagine setting up a registry of citizens entitled to speak freely, write an editorial, ask questions at a community league, author a book...
    Last edited by bankside; May 19th, 2018 at 10:08 AM.

  25. #25
    Redneck Romeo Alistair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    32,576


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    ^well said bankside. I agree wholeheartedly

  26. #26
    The world is new NotHardUp1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Location
    Rocket City
    Posts
    8,615


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    . . . what's your view on the symbolism of it? Democratic rights are some of the most essential, and in my view they require not only practical protections but symbolic.
    My view of it symbolically is the best argument to be made against enfranchisement during incarceration. I agree with other members' statements in regard to disregarding the rights and freedoms by being convicted of having contempt for the public good. If I were to decide on symbolism alone, no convicted criminal serving a sentence, whether on probation or in a prison or jail, would be allowed his liberty to vote. After that, yes, but not during. It would be part of the punishment.

    Also just going to point out a continuing flaw with US democracy: "Registration" shouldn't be a thing. The fact that someone is of age and has nationality is enough to vote on voting day, provided they are not subject to a specific, judicially-reviewed exclusion. Some invented administrative procedure should never be a barrier to voting. "Voter Registration" is in itself an anti-democratic intrusion on that right. Imagine setting up a registry of citizens entitled to speak freely, write an editorial, ask questions at a community league, author a book...
    Agreed. One must simply show current residency and declare it at the point of occupancy. Once that "registration" is completed with the local government, one should be allowed to vote by simply proof of identity.

  27. #27
    JUB Addict bankside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Location
    Beware the deepity.
    Posts
    18,825


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    My view of it symbolically is the best argument to be made against enfranchisement during incarceration. I agree with other members' statements in regard to disregarding the rights and freedoms by being convicted of having contempt for the public good. If I were to decide on symbolism alone, no convicted criminal serving a sentence, whether on probation or in a prison or jail, would be allowed his liberty to vote. After that, yes, but not during. It would be part of the punishment.



    Agreed. One must simply show current residency and declare it at the point of occupancy. Once that "registration" is completed with the local government, one should be allowed to vote by simply proof of identity.
    Awesome. I’d add some latitude for the judge to decide during sentencing in the same way that they often can choose between a fine, incarceration, or other remedies, like mandatory participation in a treatment program if addiction is the problem. I can imagine some cases where I’d be willing to allow a judge to decide and to be strategic, I think you get better law that way. Let the judges figure out based on the facts of a few cases if there are times when it is warranted and times when it would represent an unreasonable punishment. Their job is to do all that research and hear all those arguments. It gives a strong legal record of the pros and cons that way, and in 10 or 15 years you can go in and amend the law with what we now know.

    As far as registration, as long as that happens also at the voting booth, I agree. Alternative measures to ID should also be available. We can show a bill with our address, on the day of voting. Or we can have someone just vouch for us. It’s hard to say there is any real barrier to any legal voter, and we have good electoral integrity.
    http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx...t=index&lang=e

  28. #28
    The world is new NotHardUp1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Location
    Rocket City
    Posts
    8,615


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    I'm against unnecessary ID requirements, but I disagree it is something casually done upon showing up. Residence is central to what tax bonds you vote on, and which representatives you can choose, etc.

    A printed statement from a business is in no way a validation of residence. People could easily get mail at any number of addresses that they might have access to. I find it perfectly legitimate that the government be privy to the declaration of residence whenever a citizen changes permanent residence. That shouldn't be a complicated or onerous process. Simply declaring it on the postal website, with some verification like a credit card or something, is fine. I hate the complication of tax laws, tax complications, and other processes that seem designed to do little more than obfuscate and preserve some ruling bureaucracy.

  29. #29
    ***** queen fabulouslyghetto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    16,847


    Posts must follow the:
    Code of Conduct

    Re: Voting Before Entering Prison and After Leaving

    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    I looked online but have not been able to find any statistics on the percentage of US criminals who voted before incarceration. That would seem relevant, as the fight to enfranchise seems to assume that the population is prone to vote.
    Nope, "You didn't vote before" does not justify stripping someone of their right to vote in the future nor are any of us abitrators of who gets to vote or is more likely to vote a la "Too late for you to join the race."


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •