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  1. #1
    coleos patentes rareboy's Avatar
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    Thoughts and Prayers

    The most useless phrase utterable.



    But given that there are so many occasions for mealy mouthed politicians to utter them when there is another mass shooting in the US...it seems only appropriate to have a place to collect these heartfelt meaningless messages of grief and inaction.

  2. #2
    JUB Addict ballcaphair's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    The most useless phrase utterable.



    But given that there are so many occasions for mealy mouthed politicians to utter them when there is another mass shooting in the US...it seems only appropriate to have a place to collect these heartfelt meaningless messages of grief and inaction.
    It would appear that the place would be 24 hours after the breaking news shooting in social media.
    See how beautiful we are and blessed, too. Together we are excellent.

  3. #3
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    In the 30's the many of the people felt the same about Adolf Hitler and he was just like Trump except the Hitler maniac was smarter. I am so glad I am an Atheist!

  4. #4
    RESIST! chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    "Thoughts and prayers" = NRA sucking off Trump.

  5. #5
    Can you hear me yet?
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    There was a photo posted here somewhere of an empty transport trailer full of 'thoughts and prayers'. Wish I could find it.
    Everything I Ever Needed to Know I Learned in Kindergarten

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    JUB Addict ballcaphair's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Click image for larger version. 

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    See how beautiful we are and blessed, too. Together we are excellent.

  7. #7
    Can you hear me yet?
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    ^ That's the one. Thanks. (Please don't tell me it was in a very obvious thread.)
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  8. #8
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    You know, I have nothing more to say, I've had this argument so many times now, what else is there to talk about? Children will die, and lobbyists will lie, and there we are.

    Cue Kuli with his arms apologia.
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  9. #9
    JUB Addict ballcaphair's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    ^ That's the one. Thanks. (Please don't tell me it was in a very obvious thread.)
    It was in my downloaded folder. And you are welcome. Please consider one prayer answered, 20,000 to go. Now forgive me. I must pray. I must take a knee.
    See how beautiful we are and blessed, too. Together we are excellent.

  10. #10
    coleos patentes rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers


  11. #11
    JUB Addict ballcaphair's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    ^ Hellmark cards, sadly
    See how beautiful we are and blessed, too. Together we are excellent.

  12. #12
    JUB Addict Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    God Bless America is also the most useless phrase ...
    Victim of PC police. Some of the PC police are good at making untrue things up about other jub members. Remember folks, i am non-white and a minority. So i know what a real victim of racism and not the fake ones.

  13. #13
    coleos patentes rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    When Thoughts and prayers aren't enough.


  14. #14
    In mourning for America.
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    ^ So if that's the problem, why isn't the same problem showing up in Japan? In fact, how different are USA media and Canadian media? And yet our northern neighbor doesn't have this "epidemic" going on either and, as far as I know, never did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    God Bless America is also the most useless phrase ...
    TRUE STORY: I was with a group at a Rochester (NY) Red Wings game a few years ago, maybe 2007? Baseball has a "Seventh Inning Stretch" which is sort of an "intermission" in baseball, except it's shorter than movie intermissions. For those who didn't go to the vendors inside, they had the fans singing to "God Bless America." I did stand, but with the help of internalizing kind of a "La-La-La-La I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" which made it innocuous. I had some VERY weird feelings I didn't expect, though; the tune has since become one of my most disliked tunes ever. It speaks to everything that is wrong RIGHT NOW, the song merges Church and State...

    I just stood there but, no, I did NOT sing...
    "Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking." -The Scarecrow, WIZARD OF OZ, 1939
    If you think that fertilized eggs are PEOPLE, and refugees AREN'T, *YOU* are the problem.
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  15. #15
    JUB Addict ballcaphair's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    ^ frankfrank, I feel you. Also, I feel you rareboy. There is so much Country music on the radio here, and yet I am not a cowboy.
    See how beautiful we are and blessed, too. Together we are excellent.

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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    What to me is amazing about Irving Berlin's God Bless America is that when Berlin wrote it in 1918 for WWI, it was not very well received; and, was criticized in some circles as being too Jewish. It took Adolf Hitler and WWII as well as singer Kate Smith's stratospheric climb during the closing line to popularize the song

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Bless_America

  17. #17
    In mourning for America.
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    ^ I have to admit that I can "take" her version - due to its beauty, not necessarily the subject matter. I didn't do any research. Thank you for this interesting background..."too Jewish"...c'est what???
    "Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking." -The Scarecrow, WIZARD OF OZ, 1939
    If you think that fertilized eggs are PEOPLE, and refugees AREN'T, *YOU* are the problem.
    Make, for a man, a fire - and he'll be warm for a few hours. Set a man afire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
    Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying. - Terry Pratchett

  18. #18
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    The most useless phrase utterable.



    But given that there are so many occasions for mealy mouthed politicians to utter them when there is another mass shooting in the US...it seems only appropriate to have a place to collect these heartfelt meaningless messages of grief and inaction.
    Given that no existing law nor any proposed one would have made a difference either, at least the thoughts and prayers aren't using up government resources to no avail.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  19. #19
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    ^ So if that's the problem, why isn't the same problem showing up in Japan? In fact, how different are USA media and Canadian media? And yet our northern neighbor doesn't have this "epidemic" going on either and, as far as I know, never did.


    TRUE STORY: I was with a group at a Rochester (NY) Red Wings game a few years ago, maybe 2007? Baseball has a "Seventh Inning Stretch" which is sort of an "intermission" in baseball, except it's shorter than movie intermissions. For those who didn't go to the vendors inside, they had the fans singing to "God Bless America." I did stand, but with the help of internalizing kind of a "La-La-La-La I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" which made it innocuous. I had some VERY weird feelings I didn't expect, though; the tune has since become one of my most disliked tunes ever. It speaks to everything that is wrong RIGHT NOW, the song merges Church and State...

    I just stood there but, no, I did NOT sing...
    Well, the chorus that people know hardly "merges Church and State":

    "God bless America, land that I love,
    Stand beside her and guide her
    Through the night with a light from above.
    From the mountains, to the prairies,
    To the oceans white with foam,
    God bless America,
    My home sweet home
    ."


    And I'm not sure I see how the actual verse (which I doubt anyone knows) does either:

    "While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
    Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free.
    Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
    As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer:
    "


    It was written, BTW, by Irving Berlin for WW I, and revised a bit for WW II, when Kate Smith made it her own.

    It originally had these lines:

    "Make her victorious on land and foam, God bless America..."

    "Stand beside her and guide her to the right with the light from above."

    I note that "to the right" didn't mean politically, it meant "to do the right thing" -- a line used by one of my teachers in junior high to illustrate that not counting on the government to get things right is patriotic.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  20. #20
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Quote Originally Posted by smokeshadow View Post
    What to me is amazing about Irving Berlin's God Bless America is that when Berlin wrote it in 1918 for WWI, it was not very well received; and, was criticized in some circles as being too Jewish. It took Adolf Hitler and WWII as well as singer Kate Smith's stratospheric climb during the closing line to popularize the song

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Bless_America
    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    ^ I have to admit that I can "take" her version - due to its beauty, not necessarily the subject matter. I didn't do any research. Thank you for this interesting background..."too Jewish"...c'est what???
    For those who've never heard it from the famous singer (skip to about 1:10):





    I think this is the presentation Frank refers to:


    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #21
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    But to the main issue:

    It isn't really an argument about guns, it's an argument about control. Both sides want to see mass shootings and indeed murders with guns stopped. Neither side has anything that will really do the trick:

    "Before I started researching gun deaths, gun-control policy used to frustrate me. I wished the National Rifle Association would stop blocking common-sense gun-control reforms such as banning assault weapons, restricting silencers, shrinking magazine sizes and all the other measures that could make guns less deadly.

    Then, my colleagues and I at FiveThirtyEight spent three months analyzing all 33,000 lives ended by guns each year in the United States, and I wound up frustrated in a whole new way. We looked at what interventions might have saved those people, and the case for the policies I’d lobbied for crumbled when I examined the evidence. The best ideas left standing were narrowly tailored interventions to protect subtypes of potential victims, not broad attempts to limit the lethality of guns. "

    source

    No law about guns, in place or proposed, would have stopped more than a small handful of the mass shootings in the last forty years, but as the researcher above noticed, the best ideas there are turn out to be "narrowly tailored interventions to protect subtypes of potential victims". That's what the example of the Deacons for Defense shows; they protected churches and the homes of activists for Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s 'crusade' --and it worked. It worked because they knew what places were at risk, and they put armed men to the job of protecting them. King's foes of the KKK variety knew that the blacks in those places were armed and would without hesitation fire to stop any attack. But it didn't work for other places -- there were still lynchings of blacks, just not anywhere near where the Deacons were known to be.

    But passing laws is what legislators do, so they'll think up things that sound good. That's what most gun control laws are: feel-good legislation that at most makes a would-be barbarian spend a small amount of extra effort to get the gun he wants. Bill Clinton claimed that the Brady Bill stopped 100k felons from getting guns, but there's not a shred of evidence to support that -- at best, there were maybe 50k who were turned away at a gun store, but that doesn't mean they didn't get a gun when they wanted, they just had to go to a different source. Making those background checks universal won't change anything, either; as California is learning, criminals will make their own (or steal from police cars when the cops go into a "gun free zone") -- at worst, universal background checks just mean there will be one more black market in the country, with the usual attendant violence.

    The counter claim is that law-abiding citizens carrying will stop crime. But while it's true that the number of guns and owners in the country keeps rising while crime has been falling, it isn't so evident that this is cause and effect (though it is evidence that more guns does not equal more crime). The best that the data can support is that when any law-abiding citizen can get a concealed carry permit, criminals just switch the type of crime (as well as, to an extent, the location(s)). The only way that citizens' carrying will put a severe dent in crime is if a significant enough portion of the populace is carrying. A common number for that is 15%, but the places where that percentage actually carry are rare indeed.

    What is known is that mass shooters seem to prefer "gun free" zones to do their strikes -- not surprising, since they'd really rather not be interrupted except by the police, who can't possibly get there fast enough to save many lives [and even once they do arrive, they often wait outside without acting while the shooter keeps going]).

    In fact one of the few things known for certain to reduce crime is major sports events, a phenomenon attributed to potential perpetrators being engaged in watching the games. But as the experience in ancient Constantinople with its factions of "sports" fans shows, there's also frequently a jump in crime right after games.

    The issue isn't helped by the fact that gun control proponents regularly lie about the situation. Exhibit A at the moment is Nancy Pelosi and some of her colleagues who baldly put forth the lie that the national concealed carry reciprocity bill currently in Congress would allow {she said "invite") violent criminals to take guns with them where they please -- when all the bill would do is require states to do what they do for many kinds of licenses, and honor the concealed carry licenses issued by other states. Since violent criminals generally can't get a concealed carry license in the first place, she not only lied, she knew it.

    What no one has yet done -- or at least no one of any prominence -- is examine what the Constitution says about the matter, and there's only one thing it does say:

    "To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia..."

    where "the militia" means everyone capable of carrying and using arms (not just guns; it means swords as well).


    There's nothing at all there which would allow any kinds of gun bans (which have been shown to be pointless anyway) or background checks or waiting periods, or any other of the standard array of gun control notions. But what is there covers a lot of territory. For example, let's start with "disciplining", which meant in the usage of the time to establish practices concerning the having and using of arms pursuant to the little clause in the Second Amendment, namely working toward having a "well-regulated militia", and included establishing penalties for violating proper discipline. For starters, leaving one's guns around unsecured is not a mark of a "well-regulated militia"; it's clearly undisciplined -- so a law requiring arms not in used to be stored securely is perfectly within Congress' authority. Second, failing to get training in the use of whatever arms a citizen has is also not a mark of a well-regulated militia, any more than failing to get training in swimming would be for a "well-regulated" lifeguard team -- so requiring citizens who own weapons to get some minimal training is certainly within Congress' authority, whether that training be an NRA gun course or police training or even Hunter's Safety training, and even require review every other year. Nor, for that matter, is a gun owner who fails to teach his children safety, beginning with "Don't touch it!" without permission and supervision, an element of a well-regulated militia, so requiring state programs to ensure safety training for children, whether specifically of owners or for all school children, is within Congress' authority.

    Then there's "organizing", which covers yet more ground.

    Anti-gun folks will never propose any of this, since their goal, as openly stated, is "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in!" But their boogey-man. the NRA, isn't going to propose any of it either, because ever since Wayne LaPierre engineered the takeover of NRA operations by the Ackerman-McQueen PR firm, the main interest of NRA headquarters is keeping the money flowing -- and they wouldn't be able to twist the arms of members or gun or ammo manufacturers any more if effective measures were actually enacted; the whole PR model of activism requires that there be issues to scream about. But perhaps more importantly, the big corporations and the 0.25% who run them just don't care: they're not often the ones being killed because Congress has neglected its stated authority, it's mostly poor people, and thousands of poor people dying each year doesn't impact their profits.

    The fact is that every year, fewer than 0.01% of guns in the U.S. annually are misused to attack others (while by even the most pessimistic estimate, guns are used at least four times as often to defend). And the fact is that even among criminals, only about eight percent ever use a firearm in committing a crime -- and of those, over half are criminals shooting criminals (amazingly often while out on bail awaiting trial!).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  22. #22
    coleos patentes rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    The school shooting in Parkland, Florida yesterday marked the 29th mass shooting in the US in 2018. There have only been 45 days in 2018.



    Thoughts and prayers.

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  26. #26
    Can you hear me yet?
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    I wonder what Trump would say if all of his secret service men were suddenly taken away? I wonder how safe he would feel then?
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  28. #28
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Thoughts and prayers
    is such a disgusting statement if they are not going to do anything about it.
    Victim of PC police. Some of the PC police are good at making untrue things up about other jub members. Remember folks, i am non-white and a minority. So i know what a real victim of racism and not the fake ones.

  29. #29
    In mourning for America.
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Our prayers and condolences to the families and victims. (Maybe, just maybe, "condolences" have some sub-atomic particles in them that don't exist in thoughts and prayers.)

    This is not the time to talk about gun safety, or any limits on what people can own.

    A bad guy with a gun is stopped by a good guy with a gun.

    I'm so tired of this shit. This happens nowhere else in the world (short of a handful of places where organized terrorism is common; and in those places guns aren't usually the chosen weapon).
    "Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking." -The Scarecrow, WIZARD OF OZ, 1939
    If you think that fertilized eggs are PEOPLE, and refugees AREN'T, *YOU* are the problem.
    Make, for a man, a fire - and he'll be warm for a few hours. Set a man afire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
    Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying. - Terry Pratchett

  30. #30
    Salt In The Wounds. Cormac135's Avatar
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  32. #32
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  36. #36
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  37. #37
    JUB Addict Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    why are they using the same old jargon
    "thoughts and prayers for our first responders" ?
    Victim of PC police. Some of the PC police are good at making untrue things up about other jub members. Remember folks, i am non-white and a minority. So i know what a real victim of racism and not the fake ones.

  38. #38
    eastofeden
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    why are they using the same old jargon
    "thoughts and prayers for our first responders" ?
    Talking Points...they agree on talking points...

    It is all manipulative and deceptive...

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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Check out the last pic: 17 silver balloons released by state and local officials. What fucking clowns these politicians are! Turns my stomach. I wonder to what circle of hell they should be damned. Whichever one it is, damned they should be.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b00bc49f4217dc

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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    My thoughts of praying are directed at the congressional murders who've done nothing since Columbine. I'm praying they all go to jail.
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Any politicians who gives this sort of meaningless statement
    without action should be swore at and spit at in there face .... there is no punishment for this type of attack so everyone should do it.
    Victim of PC police. Some of the PC police are good at making untrue things up about other jub members. Remember folks, i am non-white and a minority. So i know what a real victim of racism and not the fake ones.

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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Quote Originally Posted by LatimerRd View Post
    Check out the last pic: 17 silver balloons released by state and local officials. What fucking clowns these politicians are! Turns my stomach. I wonder to what circle of hell they should be damned. Whichever one it is, damned they should be.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b00bc49f4217dc

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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Quote Originally Posted by ballcaphair View Post
    My thoughts of praying are directed at the congressional murders who've done nothing since Columbine. I'm praying they all go to jail.
    It makes you wonder how many wake-up calls it's going to take.

    Unfortunately, with the NRA owning the Republicans, any advances made to fix the problem are going to be met with great opposition and every advance will be stomped under foot. The NRA is a very lucrative gravy train.
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    ^ But republicans totally believe in gun control you know. They are just politically against it because the NRA pays them off.



    That's what you keep telling me.




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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    ^ I didn't say that. I've never said they are for gun control. They are firm believers in the Second Amendment because the Democrats want to make the streets and the citizens safer.

    More guns is not the answer, but it's the one the NRA is pushing and that's why they're paying the Republicans millions and millions of dollars. The republicans do everything they can to make more guns available and to people who should not be in possession of them, and they fight every attempt even to make guns safer. They are making murder legitimate because their wallets are getting fatter and fatter.

    It's idiocy that Kinder Surprise eggs are banned in the United States but weapons which can kill dozens of people within minutes are so readily available, and with Trump's recent moves, they're available to people who should not have them.
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    ^ I didn't say that. I've never said they are for gun control. They are firm believers in the Second Amendment because the Democrats want to make the streets and the citizens safer.
    Yes. That is exactly what you're saying. You keep saying republicans are doing it ONLY for the money and implying that stopping the money would solve the problem. NO. Money is a problem but not the ONLY problem. Republicans are willing co-conspirators, accomplices, with the NRA.They are not dupes taking cash. They believe in the NRA mission with all their hearts and accept millions to promote the NRA agenda because that is who they are. Stopping the money does not stop the problem. Republicans will do the same thing even without the cash. I'm all for getting money out of politics but that is not a cure all for this issue. The heart of the republican party needs to change as well. That can only happen through the vote.




  47. #47
    eastofeden
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Quote Originally Posted by cityboy-stl View Post
    Yes. That is exactly what you're saying. You keep saying republicans are doing it ONLY for the money and implying that stopping the money would solve the problem. NO. Money is a problem but not the ONLY problem. Republicans are willing co-conspirators, accomplices, with the NRA.They are not dupes taking cash. They believe in the NRA mission with all their hearts and accept millions to promote the NRA agenda because that is who they are. Stopping the money does not stop the problem. Republicans will do the same thing even without the cash. I'm all for getting money out of politics but that is not a cure all for this issue. The heart of the republican party needs to change as well. That can only happen through the vote.
    I agree with everything you said but the money thing actually would matter because they use it to disparage and lie about the other candidate.

    They scare the electorate who likes guns with ads like "Hillary is going to take away all your guns"...and people believe them even though it is completely false. They do this with vulnerable Democrats across the country..they know exactly who they can manipulate and the money buys deception and lies....that work.

    If we limit campaign spending..and don't allow groups like Swift Boat to do any political advertising..we would have a MICH DIFFERENT political landscape which would reflect the true majority...

    Gerrymandering is the other problem....

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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    You are saying that I'm saying that. I'm saying that lobbies shouldn't hold such power over the government. The same goes for the pharmaceutical industry.

    Eliminating the lobbies and and the enormous donations won't fix the problem, but it will remove the impetus for the government to do what they want it to do. As long as the donations continue, nothing will be done and more students will be murdered in cold blood. That blood should be on someone's hands, but all that comes out of it is excuses and diversions.
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    #WhatTookSoLong


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 28056775_1821430607891905_6569730002207268648_n.jpg  
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  50. #50
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    Re: Thoughts and Prayers

    Quote Originally Posted by LatimerRd View Post
    Check out the last pic: 17 silver balloons released by state and local officials.
    Wow, LOOK...they're really tackling the problem head-on, aren't they?
    "Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking." -The Scarecrow, WIZARD OF OZ, 1939
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