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  1. #1
    JUB Addict Marco Sensual's Avatar
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    Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    You know about how christians have their own interpretation of the bible.Christians likes to put words in gods mouth as if they talked to him.You know the (god is in my heart) type of christian.They really seems to think or at least they try to convince themselves that god hates LGBT people.Mostly gay men.

    Does the bible says that a woman should not have sex with a woman?

    Is it just gay men who are considered as sinners? So,lesbians have a pass???

    You possibly noticed that christians often claims that anal sex between 2 men is a sin.Straight people have anal sex also.But,for some reasons,a man fucking a woman in the ass is not considered a sin.Only a man fucking a man in the ass is considered a sin.Go figure.

    Street preachers are doing what they can to turn people against gay men.With their paper that says

    REPENT OR BURN IN HELL
    BUTT SEX IS SIN
    GOD CREATED ADAM AND EVE NOT ADAM AND STEVE
    REAL MEN HAVE SEX WITH WOMEN
    AIDS WAS SENT BY GOD TO PUNISH GAY MEN

    Of course,all of that is bullshit.Once again,its christians who act unchristian.

    Homophobic religitards are still trying to claim that the bible is against homosexuality and that god only loves straight people.When in reality the bible is not homophobic.God loves everybody.The only thing the bible says is basically that 2 men should bot have sex together.The reason for that is most likely because 2 men cant have kids.All religions are obssesed with reproduction.So,they see gay men as useless.Because they cant have kids.Not naturally at least.

    Theres only 1 homophobic religion and its islam.Who is clearly againts homosexuality.Mostly male homosexuality.You can bet anything you want that islamic straight men likes to see 2 women together do the dirty stuff.Hypocrite much.

    The discourse on homosexuality in Islam is primarily concerned with activities between men.There are,however, a few hadith mentioning homosexual behavior in women; The fuqaha’ are agreed that "there is no hadd punishment for lesbianism.

    Lesbians have it easier than gay men.Theres no doubt about that.Theres even some countries where only gay men are punished by the law.But,lesbians are not punished at all.

    Hinduism and Buddhism are peaceful religions and are totally different than islam.
    Hinduism and Buddhism have diverse views on homosexuality.They have the live and let live mentality.Hinduism is considered as the most gay friendly religion and does not condemn homosexuality.India was more open with homosexuality before the british came in india with their christian views.The british fucked it up.Then,india became what it is now.Very conservative with sex.Sex is very taboo in india.Because of the british.Homosexuality been re-criminalized because of a law that is not even indian.Its an old british law.So,indian gay men could go in prison because of that british law that should not even be in india in the first place.They really have to get rid of that british law.India is actually more open with homosexuality than people thinks.

    Do you think that lesbians have a pass because of straight men sexual desires?

    What do you think about religions who are mostly or partly gay friendly?


  2. #2
    JUB Addict mikey3000's Avatar
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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    I find it amusing that one of the most beautiful pedagogy passages in the bible, used by Christian churches during heterosexual wedding ceremonies, was spoken by one woman to another.

    Ruth 1:16-17 New International Version (NIV)

    16*But Ruth replied, “Don’t urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. 17*Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the Lord deal with me, be it ever so severely, if even death separates you and me.”
    "Love me or hate me, both are in my favour."

  3. #3
    The world is new NotHardUp1's Avatar
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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Yes, the passage may be ironic, but it carried no homosexual context, so seems irrelevant in the current rant, er, thread.

    Ruth was pledging loyalty to Naomi after Ruth was widowed, and Naomi was her mother-in-law. It was a filial pledge. It is quoted in weddings not as a sexual statement, but as a bonding statement, an oath of dedication.

    Finally, one cannot divorce the passage from Hebrew scripture. And the same goes for the homosexual injunction against men lying with men as women. That is a Hebrew taboo, carried forward into Christianity. Some sects of modern Judaism may be gay friendly, as are many secular Jews, but many are not, and historic Judaism certainly was homophobic.

    It's noteworthy that Christianity has vastly outstripped its parent religion in numbers, but both merit scrutiny for their homophobic tenets.

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    JUB Addict Mariatenebre's Avatar
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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Ultimately all of the Abrahamic and Zoroastrian religions are homophobic and transphobic. They are pretty much the religions that invented homophobia and transphobia and were instrumental in spreading sodomy laws world wide. It is my wish that LGBT people apostatize from these religions and go to Gods and spiritual traditions that actually celebrate them instead of hating them or just tolerating them. Many Pagan religions even have LGBT Gods. Knowing this why cling to Yahweh, Jesus, Allah, Ahura Mazda etc when they have been explicit in their dislike of LGBT sex and identity.

  5. #5
    JUB Addict mikey3000's Avatar
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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by NotHardUp1 View Post
    Yes, the passage may be ironic, but it carried no homosexual context, so seems irrelevant in the current rant, er, thread.

    Ruth was pledging loyalty to Naomi after Ruth was widowed, and Naomi was her mother-in-law. It was a filial pledge. It is quoted in weddings not as a sexual statement, but as a bonding statement, an oath of dedication.

    Finally, one cannot divorce the passage from Hebrew scripture. And the same goes for the homosexual injunction against men lying with men as women. That is a Hebrew taboo, carried forward into Christianity. Some sects of modern Judaism may be gay friendly, as are many secular Jews, but many are not, and historic Judaism certainly was homophobic.

    It's noteworthy that Christianity has vastly outstripped its parent religion in numbers, but both merit scrutiny for their homophobic tenets.
    Although the Bible is open to a wide array of interpretation and translation, to dismiss the relationship between Ruth and Naomi as just filial is rather simplistic. The same Hebrew word (clave, past tense of cleave) that is used in Genesis 2:24 to describe how Adam felt about Eve (and how spouses are supposed to feel toward each other) is used in Ruth 1:14 to describe how Ruth felt about Naomi. Her feelings are celebrated, not condemned.

    http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.or...uth_naomi.html

    No, not as just a sexual statement, but also as a bonding statement, an oath of dedication, as between loving partners should be.
    "Love me or hate me, both are in my favour."

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    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    A loving relationship between two human beings does not need a sexual foundation.

    A sexual encounter between two human beings need not be a reflection of their love for another.

    No one is a friend to his friend who does not love in return. ¬Plato

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    JUB Addict mikey3000's Avatar
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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Homosexual romance is as old as man itself. It has always been and will always be.
    "Love me or hate me, both are in my favour."

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    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Friendship between human beings is a reminder that human life can reciprocate love through all expressions of love.

  9. #9
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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mikey3000 View Post
    Although the Bible is open to a wide array of interpretation and translation, to dismiss the relationship between Ruth and Naomi as just filial is rather simplistic. The same Hebrew word (clave, past tense of cleave) that is used in Genesis 2:24 to describe how Adam felt about Eve (and how spouses are supposed to feel toward each other) is used in Ruth 1:14 to describe how Ruth felt about Naomi. Her feelings are celebrated, not condemned.

    http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.or...uth_naomi.html

    No, not as just a sexual statement, but also as a bonding statement, an oath of dedication, as between loving partners should be.
    That link was interesting until I got to this:

    "The sensible thing would have been to allow Naomi to return to her family and for Ruth to return to hers."

    To moderns, that might have been sensible. But by marrying a foreigner, Ruth became a foreigner to her family, so if Naomi left and Ruth stayed, Ruth could have been an outcast -- her mother might not have taken her back. But since her Hebrew husband had died, she had no legal link there any more; she and Naomi were no more related at that point than if they'd never met.

    This doesn't deny Ruth's feelings, but it puts them in context. Her pledge was one of covenant; she essentially adopted herself into Naomi's family in a way that left no way back -- and Naomi's greater family, the tribes of Israel.

    Reading modern feelings into it is a distortion of the text. One reason we tend to do so is that we really have no intense friendship roles these days; it's either "just friends" or sexual to us. That was hardly the case then; indeed, someone with nothing but "just friends" relationships or sexual ones would have been seen as crippled.

    We also have to remember that back then "family" meant more than just a couple and their children; it wasn't uncommon to have three generations all living together in a single household. And since by the rules then a woman wasn't to sleep in the same bed as her husband when she was "having flows", as the idiom was, Ruth may well have shared a bed with Naomi on a regular basis -- so while they were not likely GFs, they were almost certainly gfs.

    If anything we should take the vow from Ruth to Naomi as a comment on how shallow our culture has become with relationships (and with sex).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    JUB Addict Mariatenebre's Avatar
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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Bottom line is in the Abrahamic texts there are simply no positive references to homosexual romantic and sexual relationships where as there are tons of negative shit in relation to gay relationships. Knowing this why do gays still cling to the Abrahamic god when countless of Pagan religions have LGBT Gods and heroes and openly accept gay and trans people.

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    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    Bottom line is in the Abrahamic texts there are simply no positive references to homosexual romantic and sexual relationships where as there are tons of negative shit in relation to gay relationships. Knowing this why do gays still cling to the Abrahamic god when countless of Pagan religions have LGBT Gods and heroes and openly accept gay and trans people.
    You love to misrepresent.

    There are a handful of texts that if read as though they weren't meant for the people to whom they were written can be made to be anti-homosexual -- there's no "tons of negative" stuff.

    And some people don't treat religion like a hobby with no real significance.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    JUB Addict Mariatenebre's Avatar
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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    You love to misrepresent.

    There are a handful of texts that if read as though they weren't meant for the people to whom they were written can be made to be anti-homosexual -- there's no "tons of negative" stuff.

    And some people don't treat religion like a hobby with no real significance.
    The verses are specifically anti same sex sex and they say this blatantly.

    Also my religion is not a hobby it has significance in my life. The difference between myself and gay Abrahamics is I go where I am celebrated. I do not worship a god that is against my very identity I only worship Gods that uplift me. Why would say someone worship say Yahweh for instance knowing how he feels about homosexuals as opposed for example Tuer Shen the Rabbit God of homosexuality in China. In China his cult is still popular among gay people.

  13. #13
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    The verses are specifically anti same sex sex and they say this blatantly.

    Also my religion is not a hobby it has significance in my life. The difference between myself and gay Abrahamics is I go where I am celebrated. I do not worship a god that is against my very identity I only worship Gods that uplift me. Why would say someone worship say Yahweh for instance knowing how he feels about homosexuals as opposed for example Tuer Shen the Rabbit God of homosexuality in China. In China his cult is still popular among gay people.
    I forget -- where did you get your degree in ancient Hebrew? Oh, that's right... you're reading them as though they weren't meant for the people to whom they were written but for modern English speakers.

    The Old Testament texts may be about temple prostitutes, so they're not "blatant" about anything. And the New Testament texts are unclear since Paul seems to make up his own word for whatever he means rather than using available terms.


    As for your religion, the way your above paragraph reads once again treats religion as a hobby -- you pick something you like and go with it.

    And I'll repeat that you have no idea what Yahweh thinks about homosexuality, since the Bible doesn't address the issue -- in fact, it's just as easy to make an argument that Jesus recognizes that there are people born attracted the the same sex, and makes no negative comment, as it is to make one that Paul condemned homosexuality.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    JUB Addict Mariatenebre's Avatar
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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I forget -- where did you get your degree in ancient Hebrew? Oh, that's right... you're reading them as though they weren't meant for the people to whom they were written but for modern English speakers.

    The Old Testament texts may be about temple prostitutes, so they're not "blatant" about anything. And the New Testament texts are unclear since Paul seems to make up his own word for whatever he means rather than using available terms.


    As for your religion, the way your above paragraph reads once again treats religion as a hobby -- you pick something you like and go with it.

    And I'll repeat that you have no idea what Yahweh thinks about homosexuality, since the Bible doesn't address the issue -- in fact, it's just as easy to make an argument that Jesus recognizes that there are people born attracted the the same sex, and makes no negative comment, as it is to make one that Paul condemned homosexuality.
    Again I read what the text says from speakers of Hebrew. The Old Testament texts clearly refer to gay male sex and not to "temple prostitutes" which even if it did refer to temple prostitutes I see nothing wrong with temple prostitution and you being on a gay porn forum seems rather hypocritical to be against such a practice. Besides if Yahweh wanted to tell the Hebrews to be against say temple prostitution and not gay sex in general why basically say that if a man lies with another man he is committing an abomination. Why couldn't he be a little more clear. I guess it makes sense as he is clearly not all knowing like when he regrets creating humans in the Noah story and he regrets making Saul king. However for a deity who claims to be all knowing he could atleast be more clear and concise in his language.

    Next my religion is not a hobby it grants me spiritual fulfillment. I also see nothing wrong with picking a religion I like. I know you Abrahamics are used to long suffering in your religion but it is quite possible to pick a religion that celebrates you instead of denigrates you.

    Next I do know what Yahweh thinks about homosexuality he is rather clear about it. Even if Jesus did not address it Paul did as well as did the earlier Abrahamic texts. If they wanted to present homosexuality in a positive light they could I don't know point at positive gay couples as most Pagan religions did. No instead every time homosexual sex is mentioned it is always in a negative light. I would rather pick a religion that celebrates me instead of one that denigrates or hates me. You gay Abrahamics are more the fools for picking religions that pretty much invented homophobia and to worship a god that acts like a divine Hitler mixed with Tony Soprano.

    Again if I were this god then I would write my books in a way that would be easily understandable regardless of time or linguistic translation. The fact that you claim that your god can not or will not do this is more of a indictment of his powers as opposed to a defense of your religion. However then again if iron chariots can give your god pause I guess writing books can be pretty challenging as well.

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    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    Next I do know what Yahweh thinks about homosexuality he is rather clear about it. Even if Jesus did not address it Paul did as well as did the earlier Abrahamic texts.
    You've been corrected on this before. At this point, you're lying on purpose. Paul did not address homosexuality and neither does the Old Testament.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    You've been corrected on this before. At this point, you're lying on purpose. Paul did not address homosexuality and neither does the Old Testament.
    True. Look no further than Jesus when it comes to homosexuality. Jesus would gather with and celebrate the uniqueness of the gay community. They are the oppressed, the bashed and hated upon by so many. Jesus ignored scripture when it didn't bare "good fruit", he obviously would not stand by words that were hateful and making people kill themselves for being who they are.

    Anyone cherry picking bible verses to use against others have serious issues.

    Think about it, they are not following Jesus at all. But you can't change fundamentalist Christians, they are who they are and unless something hits them close to home (like finding out a child of theirs is gay), they probably won't change.

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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    As an ordained Catholic priest, yesterday's reading is quite interesting. Matthew 8, verses 5-11 is about Jesus healing the servant boy in Capernaum. Delving in, the servant boy would have been a male partner and it was likely a gay relationship. Jesus healed the boy without even going to the house and praised the faith of the man asking. I find a lot of people who profess to be "Christian" forget the Christ part.

    Jesus the Christ did not hang with Pharisees, Sadducees, and the society of His day. Instead, he hung with prostitutes, fishermen, outcasts, tax collectors, the poor, the prisoner, and the sick. I'd put a lot more into what Christ actually said than what even one of his disciples stated in their letters to the new church. If you want to take the letter part, Jesus experienced everything that we are tempted with (which presumably would include homosexuality). He sent the disciples out in pairs (two men) so they would have company. His Apostles, including Peter, apparently left their wives and families to follow Christ (quite pro-family). What Jesus said -- and what is most important if one is actually Christ-ian, is that we should love one another and love God. Pretty simple. Judging -- it's to be left to Him.

    Could he have condemned homosexuality? He certainly could; he found time to talk at length about divorce. He found plenty of time to talk about caring for the poor, the imprisoned, the lonely, and the outcast.

    I'm guessing there will be quite a few "Christians" knocking on the gates of heaven that will have gay flags flying from each door post along with flags from Jewish, Islam, and many others.
    Barry Glacier in Alaska. Gone but not forgotten.

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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by thewiz View Post
    I'd put a lot more into what Christ actually said than what even one of his disciples stated in their letters to the new church.
    That's exactly how the Church Fathers did it for the most part: the Gospels were the guide for interpreting the epistles, the Gospels and the epistles were the guide for interpreting the uncertain books and the Old Testament (the uncertain books included Revelations and a dew others, a point today's Christians would do well to remember).

    I learned this in Greek class when we were translating the epistle to the Hebrews. I don't recall what bit it was, but on the face of it it seemed out of line with the rest. The professor gave us printouts of what some of the Fathers had to say about the passage (also in the original Greek), which demonstrated this principle.


    And that reminds me: Hebrews itself is a great example of how to treat the Old Testament: look for the principles! Paul does the same in his letters, effectively throwing out the Law in its details but learning from the principles.
    (A great place to look and figure that out is with the Ten Words [Commandments]: there's the provision forbidding the making of images, but not long after God is commanding the making of images -- bulls, pomegranates, etc. -- which shows right there that it isn't a flat-out prohibition against images, but a lesson to be pondered about what images are for.)

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    It's often surprising how many people think Paul was one of the original apostles. He was the reason for the first church council in Jerusalem!

    It's also surprising how many Christians want to live by the First Covenant and don't understand "old" and "testament" applies if one wants to be one of the chosen people ..... and Jewish. While Jesus the Christ said he did not come to abolish the law; he did say he came to fulfill it. Unequivocal love solves everything in the 10 words......
    Barry Glacier in Alaska. Gone but not forgotten.

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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by thewiz View Post
    It's often surprising how many people think Paul was one of the original apostles. He was the reason for the first church council in Jerusalem!

    It's also surprising how many Christians want to live by the First Covenant and don't understand "old" and "testament" applies if one wants to be one of the chosen people ..... and Jewish. While Jesus the Christ said he did not come to abolish the law; he did say he came to fulfill it. Unequivocal love solves everything in the 10 words......
    I once wrote a paper arguing that while Christ did not break the Law, He did shatter it -- by rising above it, breaking through to what the Law could not do. That's implicit in statements by both Jesus and Paul.

    So it amazes me that anyone who has encountered Christ could possibly want to settle for retreating to the Law instead of embracing the One who was and is greater than the Law.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post

    Again if I were this god then I would write my books in a way that would be easily understandable regardless of time or linguistic translation. The fact that you claim that your god can not or will not do this is more of a indictment of his powers as opposed to a defense of your religion. However then again if iron chariots can give your god pause I guess writing books can be pretty challenging as well.
    You seem to have drunk the fundamentalist Kool-Aid, that YHWH dictated Torah word-for-word to Moses. The Bible represents (fallible) human beings' attempts to understand God, God's role in the history of the Hebrew people and the world, and humanity's ongoing relationship with God. The numerous Biblical authors, editors and redactors are not all in agreement with each other; the Deuteronomist and Paul had opposing viewpoints on how to treat those who are not members of "God's chosen people"; Qoheleth and the writer of the Maccabean history express diametrically opposed views of the meaning of life and the hope of something better beyond.

    As to your picking and choosing, humanity has a tendancy to create gods in the image of humankind. We want (if not need) a god or gods who validate our lifestyles, our prejudices, our preconceptions, our status. Judaism and Christianity have not been immune from this. Not just in proof-texting by modern Christians, but in the texts themselves. (for example, compare the letters generally acknowledged to be authentic writings of Paul with those attributed to "Pseudo-Paul", especially on male-female relations and roles)

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    Re: Does the bible says something against lesbians? Gay friendly religions!!!

    Quite the contrary, the book of Ruth is all about love between two women -- Naomi and Ruth. In addition, many quotes that evangelicals use to beat gays over the head with (saying they expressly mention homosexuality) do not. While I could attribute some of it to poor translation of the Greek, Aramaic, or Hebrew; it is also likely that the translators were biased (or ignorant) and trying to reflect something that was an issue with them but was not in Jesus' time.
    Barry Glacier in Alaska. Gone but not forgotten.

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