Obamacare and the Horror Stories

[JayHawk]

Fine. Let's not use that as a generality of what all premiums will be.

A Rolls Royce costs $400,000 but that doesn't mean all cars cost that much.

$8,000 ÷ 12 = 667 (7,000 ÷ 12 = 583) What have the premiums been from Kaiser Permanente, Blue Cross or others and did they cover preexisting conditions, have lifetime caps, etc?

The way Springer exaggerates and demonizes everything if he said the the Earth was round I'd doubt him.

On the last line LOL...

On the rest, I already posted my anecdotal but massive savings. My mother's policies previously were near a grand a month. So I was forced to do ghetto care through the emergency room and then talk down the bills. I cannot afford 12,000 a year with deductibles and caps. Obviously. Still the ghetto route has cost me thousands. I am happy that with her income, I can plan to pay 196 bucks a year and still afford a supplemental plan to cover the gap. I just hope I can get a plan that will work this year and convert to medicare gap next year when she shifts at 65.

Regardless I WANT people like Jack to go look and be surprised with what they find. WHY? Because if we just play partisan stupid for the next year then a good majority of healthy, uninsured right siders will stay off the plan. If they do then it is destined to fail because the cost works IF many join, NOT if many just pay the fine.

Now the fine increases to substantially past the cost of insurance in two years BUT as the insurance companies post record losses and the Health Department posts abysmal sign up rates and skyrocketing costs to the taxpayer, then the right will have massive talking points for 2014. It is a PR battle like no other. WHich is why Obama kept his campaign team together. We have to get word out or it dies.

[Kulindahr]

Nah his primo plan for the region he is near, at least, is 7000 a year. Still I cant imagine many who do not have insurance will not qualify for subsidies. I mean who is making 100k and doesn't have insurance?

They keep saying millions won't be able to get insurance, so there must be a lot. I know when I put in an income less than the poverty level, it said I didn't qualify for a subsidy. I guess those people are supposed to get Medicaid, but that depends on their state.

[JayHawk]

Did Oregon not expand Medicaid? O_o

I would think they would accept it readily as a deep blue state.

Yeah Ohio is very restrictive on their Medicaid and as a red led state they havent chosen to expand medicaid. So at 64, with oxygen to walk, no ability to climb stairs or move around for longer than 15-20 minutes at a time, my mother is not disabled enough to qualify under Ohio rules. Next year she will be entitled to Medicare.

So she lives off Social Security and I pay roughly half her bills. So without me she would not afford health insurance this year either. Not with the co-pays and deductibles....

[T-Rexx]

Yeah Ohio is very restrictive on their Medicaid and as a red led state they havent chosen to expand medicaid. So at 64, with oxygen to walk, no ability to climb stairs or move around for longer than 15-20 minutes at a time, my mother is not disabled enough to qualify under Ohio rules. Next year she will be entitled to Medicare.

Even if your mother DID qualify for disability in Ohio, the average length of time between application and approval for disability in Ohio is two years.

[Kulindahr]

Even if your mother DID qualify for disability in Ohio, the average length of time between application and approval for disability in Ohio is two years.

Your tax dollars at work.

[JayHawk]

Sounds like the new plan is delay making a decisiosn instead of make it sustainable between the VA and the execution of social programs across the nation

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

Speaking of Horror Stories, I guess we just "make them up" now?

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/insi..._on_obamacare/

[Rolyo85]

We do indeed. Because that's what horror stories are - fiction.

[T-Rexx]

Speaking of Horror Stories, I guess we just "make them up" now?

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/insi..._on_obamacare/

That's entirely the point.

Fox can't find anyone who has been hurt by Obamacare. So, they invented their own.

[Jack Springer]

Speaking of Horror Stories, I guess we just "make them up" now?

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/insi..._on_obamacare/

This was the link provided by the OP.

Not sure what you're trying to do.

[Jack Springer]

Carney walks out during today's press conference during a question he doesn't want to answer or can't answer.

[Rolyo85]

You never did tell me how you felt about republican blog posts always having disabled comments.

[JayHawk]

This was the link provided by the OP.

Not sure what you're trying to do.

That was the sarcastic point of my original post being about the 'horror' stories. When primarily it was fox and republicans lying through their teeth.

[Kulindahr]

This was the link provided by the OP.

Not sure what you're trying to do.

It's called "telling the truth".


...something Fox isn't too familiar with.

[JayHawk]

John Kasich, Governor of Ohio, made an end run around the tea party terrorists and accepted expanded Medicaid for the state of Ohio after having earlier vetoed a bill from the same tea party talibangelicals that would have made expansion illegal. I just heard that on the LAST word with Lawrence O'Donnell.

Most amazing situation that I never expected out of Kasich.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/22/us...oans.html?_r=0

[T-Rexx]

^

The vote was an extraordinary — and possibly illegal, critics in Mr. Kasich’s own party said

Republicans are suing Kasich (himself a Republican) to try and stop the Medicaid expansion. There is a reasonable chance that they will succeed.

The expansion actually saves the state money (which is why Kasich wants it), but Republicans are desperate to stop Americans from getting healthcare.

Republicans are suing Republicans as they rip their party apart in an attempt to make life miserable for America.


http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...ue-kasich.html

[CowboyBob]

^

Republicans are suing Kasich (himself a Republican) to try and stop the Medicaid expansion. There is a reasonable chance that they will succeed.

The expansion actually saves the state money (which is why Kasich wants it), but Republicans are desperate to stop Americans from getting healthcare.

Republicans are suing Republicans as they rip their party apart in an attempt to make life miserable for America.


http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...ue-kasich.html

Why don't republicans want Americans to have affordable health care?

[Jack Springer]

Republican want Americans to have affordable and great health care.

Why do the democrats want to destroy our great health care system.

[Jack Springer]

That was the sarcastic point of my original post being about the 'horror' stories. When primarily it was fox and republicans lying through their teeth.

Kind of like Kitty Kat on CNN last night where she was still blaming the healthcare.gov problems on high traffic.

I would expect that at least some of you would be flabbergasted that Kitty Kat didn't advise the WH of the site's problems.... yeah right.

[Rolyo85]

Republican want Americans to have affordable and great health care.

Why do the democrats want to destroy our great health care system.

You have a great health care system? Where do you keep that health care system? Is it hidden under the piles of crushing debt that any simple disease could cause? Or is it under the highest mortality rate from easily treatable conditions in the first world? Is that where you're hiding your great health care system?

Or do you just not live in America maybe?

[Rolyo85]

Your entire health care system is one giant problem.

[Kulindahr]

Your entire health care system is one giant problem.

I got reminded of that again when I had some blood tests done. No one wants to pay for it -- not the medical insurance, not the hospitalization insurance, not the mental health insurance, not the lab insurance.....

[rareboy]

Republican want Americans to have affordable and great health care.

Why do the democrats want to destroy our great health care system.

This is of course, risible.

[Centexfarmer]

done by a actual journalist on Sean Hannity....

Bless your heart!

Sean Hannity wouldn't know a "journalists" much less "journalism" if he was cock slapped in the face by it.

I'm pretty sure that there's something in the Fox News Employee Handbook that outlines as much.

[T-Rexx]

Why do the democrats want to destroy our great health care system.

By "great," I presume you mean the most expensive healthcare on earth, available to only a few people, producing below-average outcomes, and destroying the economy.

[cityboy-stl]

Republican want Americans to have affordable and great health care.
Why do the democrats want to destroy our great health care system.

Just like we did before the ACA? Come on. If republicans have ideas for a better system what are those ideas? So far I have not heard any. All I've heard is a lot of screaming and calls for destruction of the ACA. But no actual proposals for improvement or to replace it with something else. Repeal and put everything back the way it was is not an idea for change. Since you seem to be the spokesperson here Springer, how about sharing with us some real republican ideas for changing healthcare?

[Kulindahr]

Republican want Americans to have affordable and great health care.

Why do the democrats want to destroy our great health care system.

They've given no sign of that in Congress.

[JayHawk]

Kind of like Kitty Kat on CNN last night where she was still blaming the healthcare.gov problems on high traffic.

I would expect that at least some of you would be flabbergasted that Kitty Kat didn't advise the WH of the site's problems.... yeah right.

The web site has flaws, as acknowledged by none other than the "republican designated" namesake of the healthcare law. The healthcare law and the programs offered are simply a medium to put customer with a affordable plan. SO FAR, that appears fairly accurate. I suspect website will be repaired or the timelines will be altered to allow for the discrepancy.

Your logic that the whole thing must be bad because of the delivery method is likable to refusing a tonsillectomy because the first surgery patient died of infection... yet refusing the tonsillectomy ensures you continue to experience health issues and could eventually die of infection. The two are not causally linked.

[JayHawk]

Republican want Americans to have affordable and great health care.

Why do the democrats want to destroy our great health care system.

That is a bold faced lie. The republican mantra is what is good for business is good for all. Well we have had free reign health care for the entire span of this country and it is not affordable, the debt is not survivable, and the care is half ass at best UNLESS you are wealthy. How many times do you hear of this national leader or that having a cancer that was early detected and eradicated. Who do think is going to detect that in you? How many seventy one year olds get a heart transplant? Not many. In fact, 332 people over 65 received a transplant last year. That is on a list numbering thousands.

If you dont have cash then the republican concept is that coffins are cheap and dirt is plentiful. That is not healthcare, it is a death panel by capitalism.

[opinterph]

How many seventy one year olds get a heart transplant? Not many. In fact, 332 people over 65 received a transplant last year. That is on a list numbering thousands.

Listing Criteria for Heart Transplantation (Journal of Heart and Lung Transplantation; 2006)

Number of U.S. Transplants Per Year, 1988–2008

[JayHawk]

I didn't look at your sources yet Opi but I imagine the criteria is that the patient is not suffering from other ailments that would make the life expectancy low regardless.

[JayHawk]

Cant cvouch for their sourcing but the Daily Beast stated that over five thousand occurred worldwide with about two thousand in the US and 332 over 65.... http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ansplants.html

So that seems to track with your numbers.

[opinterph]

Cant cvouch for their sourcing but the Daily Beast stated that over five thousand occurred worldwide with about two thousand in the US and 332 over 65....

The 332 number is interesting when compared to prior years. (It appears that UNOS [cited by Daily Beast] is using data from HHS.)

National Data (Choose: National Data on left menu, then Transplant/Heart/By Recipient Age)

[Kulindahr]

That is a bold faced lie. The republican mantra is what is good for business is good for all. Well we have had free reign health care for the entire span of this country and it is not affordable, the debt is not survivable, and the care is half ass at best UNLESS you are wealthy. How many times do you hear of this national leader or that having a cancer that was early detected and eradicated. Who do think is going to detect that in you? How many seventy one year olds get a heart transplant? Not many. In fact, 332 people over 65 received a transplant last year. That is on a list numbering thousands.

If you dont have cash then the republican concept is that coffins are cheap and dirt is plentiful. That is not healthcare, it is a death panel by capitalism.

Well said. The GOP is devoted to social Darwinism.

[Jack Springer]

^^

Daily Beast is a blog ... not a news source. They offer opinion not facts.

Americans spend more on health care per person than any other country. Since people are having to spend more on health care because of Obamacare that number will greatly increase.

http://www.infoplease.com/science/he...ntry-2006.html

[JayHawk]

The 332 number is interesting when compared to prior years. (It appears that UNOS [cited by Daily Beast] is using data from HHS.)

National Data (Choose: National Data on left menu, then Transplant/Heart/By Recipient Age)

At a little under one fifth the recipients it is a rather large group BUT the list is 3100 deep and I do not believe that 3100 eligible hearts are not readily available in america. Especially when you consider 2.2 million deaths a year. Loose connection does not equal correlation but I would imagine one must have some form of health care to be considered.

[JayHawk]

^^

Daily Beast is a blog ... not a news source. They offer opinion not facts.

Americans spend more on health care per person than any other country. Since people are having to spend more on health care because of Obamacare that number will greatly increase.

http://www.infoplease.com/science/he...ntry-2006.html

We spend more on health care with worse results compared to socialized medicine countries. You forgot the other portion of that statement. Higher cost and lower success.

By the way you state that Americans are paying more yet you have not provided factual evidence. In fact, most stories of OMG rising rates are developed from Fox Fiction authors. Since you wanna talk sources that OPI then correlated using HHS I would suggest you develop a trustworthy source for your statement. How has health care improved for you under the ACA Jack?

[opinterph]

I do not believe that 3100 eligible hearts are not readily available in america. Especially when you consider 2.2 million deaths a year.

When I worked in health care, I had an opportunity to spend some time with a young guy from the UK who worked at an organ procurement facility. He indicated that donor hearts are rejected for consideration if ANYTHING is found wrong with them. Most are unusable.

Loose connection does not equal correlation but I would imagine one must have some form of health care to be considered.

I have seen families of the uninsured bring bags of cash to the hospital. Money has a way of opening doors that might otherwise be closed.

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

This was the link provided by the OP.

Not sure what you're trying to do.

Oh so you DID actually see it after all? I didn't think you HAD since you didn't bother to derail your own talking points by responding to it...

[JayHawk]

When I worked in health care, I had an opportunity to spend some time with a young guy from the UK who worked at an organ procurement facility. He indicated that donor hearts are rejected for consideration if ANYTHING is found wrong with them. Most are unusable.




I have seen families of the uninsured bring bags of cash to the hospital. Money has a way of opening doors that might otherwise be closed.

Well sure most would be rejected but a tenth of a percent making the cut?

I also agree that moolah has a way of moving people in this country but way too many people don't have that outlet. The guy in Ohio that died in 2009 from an abscessed tooth would not have done so had he a financial ability to correct the situation. Plus as the 80% become less and less wealthy there will be less and less an opportunity to develop 'heal me' cash. That also begs the question, should you only be allowed to live if you have procreated and have a loving family or should we all be equally entitled to health care?

[rareboy]

^^

Daily Beast is a blog ... not a news source. They offer opinion not facts.

Americans spend more on health care per person than any other country. Since people are having to spend more on health care because of Obamacare that number will greatly increase.

http://www.infoplease.com/science/he...ntry-2006.html

You are right. Americans spend more on obtaining health care than any other country...the highest case cost with overall poorer outcomes than the other countries. A huge part of the cost is for the vastly overpriced administration and business of health care instead of the care itself. Unfortunately the Republican plan, 'Obamacare', does not eliminate this cost. What it does do though, is reduce the likelihood that millions without insurance will end up requiring catastrophic care in the Emergency department...at a much, much higher cost than preventive primary care...and invariably in serious cases...with far less satisfactory outcomes. And just to remind you....you all pay for the uninsured receiving high cost episodic, catastrophic care. The entire system in many jurisdictions requires a complete overhaul. And that is a fact.

And don't even bother arguing this point with me. You are so far out of your depth here that there's no way that you can argue health care economics.

[Jack Springer]

Oh so you DID actually see it after all? I didn't think you HAD since you didn't bother to derail your own talking points by responding to it...

I'm was thinking you did not read the original post.

[Jack Springer]

We spend more on health care with worse results compared to socialized medicine countries. You forgot the other portion of that statement. Higher cost and lower success.

By the way you state that Americans are paying more yet you have not provided factual evidence. In fact, most stories of OMG rising rates are developed from Fox Fiction authors. Since you wanna talk sources that OPI then correlated using HHS I would suggest you develop a trustworthy source for your statement. How has health care improved for you under the ACA Jack?

With Obamacare people will pay more for health care. American people are being forced to spend money on health insurance they may or may not want and those that don't will be taxed -- that will increase the cost of healthcare in the USA.

A solution would be to create an environment that cause costs to go down -- competition always works -- people should be allowed to buy insurance where they can get the best deal. Creating a new government monster in DC will not solve health care problems. Remember how you guys hate Walmart ... Obamacare will be bigger than Walmart and not nearly as efficient.

- - - Updated - - -

You are right. Americans spend more on obtaining health care than any other country...the highest case cost with overall poorer outcomes than the other countries. A huge part of the cost is for the vastly overpriced administration and business of health care instead of the care itself. Unfortunately the Republican plan, 'Obamacare', does not eliminate this cost. What it does do though, is reduce the likelihood that millions without insurance will end up requiring catastrophic care in the Emergency department...at a much, much higher cost than preventive primary care...and invariably in serious cases...with far less satisfactory outcomes. And just to remind you....you all pay for the uninsured receiving high cost episodic, catastrophic care. The entire system in many jurisdictions requires a complete overhaul. And that is a fact.

And don't even bother arguing this point with me. You are so far out of your depth here that there's no way that you can argue health care economics.

[Text: Removed]

[kallipolis]

The facts are always an unwelcome visitor for our Jack Springer:

According to the World Health Organization (WHO), the United States spent more on health care per capita ($8,608), and more on health care as percentage of its GDP (17.9%), than any other nation in 2011. The Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among similar countries, and notes U.S. care costs the most. In a 2013 Bloomberg ranking of nations with the most efficient health care systems, the United States ranks 46th among the 48 countries included in the study.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_..._United_States

[Jack Springer]

^^^

... and starting with Obamacare the USA will spend more than ever.

[Rolyo85]

Well, it's already been proven that you are incorrect and the USA will in fact spend less. Or do you mean the USA OVERALL will spend more since more people will have access to it? Cause that's a good thing, you know that right?

[CowboyBob]

^^^

... and starting with Obamacare the USA will spend more than ever.

Yes, the USA will spend more than ever with millions more added to the rolls of the insured.

What are some of the horror stories of the uninsured? I can tell you tales of how families lost their farms, ranches and homes because of no health insurance. I know people who refused treatment because they couldn't afford it and didn't want to burden their families.

[rareboy]

With Obamacare people will pay more for health care. American people are being forced to spend money on health insurance they may or may not want and those that don't will be taxed -- that will increase the cost of healthcare in the USA.

A solution would be to create an environment that cause costs to go down -- competition always works -- people should be allowed to buy insurance where they can get the best deal. Creating a new government monster in DC will not solve health care problems. Remember how you guys hate Walmart ... Obamacare will be bigger than Walmart and not nearly as efficient.

- - - Updated - - -



[Text: Removed]

Well done there Jack. When you don't have facts or knowledge....go for the personal insult.

[Kulindahr]

Obamacare will be bigger than Walmart and not nearly as efficient.

So because more people are buying insurance, the private sector gets less efficient?

Please explain this.

[Jack Springer]

Well done there Jack. When you don't have facts or knowledge....go for the personal insult.

Just like you did with me ... however, since you're a moderator favorite, your's was not deleted.