Best friends with his ex-bf? I don't know if I can handle it.

[SomeBoi]

Hey guys,

I'm in quite the unfortunate predicament. Some background: I dated a guy, let's say named Mike, who I was, and still am crazy about back in summer 2010. We dated a couple months, at the same time he was seeing other people. He told me about this guy "Josh" that he was seeing at the same time. It started out as a "gym buddy" actually and I thought it was harmless, but he then told me they were dating, he texted him all the time when with me, they fooled around, etc. I tried to be OK with it, I mean we are dating, seeing other people - that's fine. He would make a choice eventually. Honestly I thought I was "winning" and that he would choose me. Long story short: he chose Josh. They lived together for over a year, and had a full LTR. I stopped talking to Mike, it was too hard as I was really hurt because I like him a lot.

Fast forward to now. Mike and Josh ended things. I made contact with Mike again this past January online. We have been dating, spending a lot of time together, hanging out with eachother's friends, having great party nights together, and planning trips for the past 3-4 months. We are thinking about Europe in May and Toronto in June! It has all been fantastic, and I honestly couldn't be happier. He has said on multiple occasions that he made a mistake back then.

One problem. Josh isn't gone. Him and Josh are now "best friends". They still hang out, text regularly, etc. Mike tries to tell me that Josh and him are better as friends than they were partners. He assures me that there is NOTHING there. I have never met Josh or seen them together. But he says it's completely over but still considers him a great friend, wants him as a best man at his wedding, etc.

I can't STAND it. It bothers me so much. I'm not an insecure person, I know I have a lot to offer, but I am incredibly insecure about this and worried the whole situation is going to repeat itself. That they're going to rekindle things, get back together, and I'm going to get hurt again. Or at the very least that they're sleeping together while we are seeing eachother. Mike told me they ended things because Josh can't see himself being with one person forever, or wants an open relationship whereas Mike doesn't and is more monogamous. That made me worry that maybe Mike is waiting around for Josh to reconsider that choice, but then I asked if there were other reasons why they broke up and he said yes but didn't want to talk about it which is fine I guess.

This situation is RIPPING me apart. I really, really want to be with Mike. He makes me so incredibly happy but I can't stop worrying about what might happen or what may be going on between him and Josh still. I wanted Mike all to myself this time, but instead the guy he chose over me 3 years ago is still in his life. I really want to trust him. He has re-assured me about the situation twice now, I don't know what else to do? What would you do? I just don't understand how you can still be that good of friends with your ex and not be too hard/feel chemistry toward them.

[HunterM]

1. Did you and Mike both verbally agree to date each exclusively in a committed relationship? If no, then Mike is free to date other people at the same time. So are you. Do not assume.

2. Go meet Josh with Mike...to see for yourself why Josh is such a thread to you. Get to know Josh. By going with Mike to meet Josh, you two are showing unity. You are part of Mike's life now.

[sixthson]

I doubt any good will come from this. You don't trust him for basically one reason: he rejected you for someone else once before.
Naturally, you are not sure you can trust him, but you are already investing too much in him emotionally and otherwise.
I think the fact he does not want to discuss the other reasons they broke up is not a good sign. Open, honest communications is one of the bedrocks of any relationship. You should probably go very slowly here and guard your heart and not give it away too quickly.
Ask yourself if you really need all this in your life.

[Rolyo85]

You have to deal, pretty much. He has way more history with Josh than with you, and if he feels he has a good friendship with the guy, all you can do by being jealous of it is ruin your chances with him.

[TX-Beau]

Which chances you might want to reassess - If what you say is accurate, you were never his BF, Josh was. You aren't now. That has suspicious hints of expedience.

[Maklaar13]

This is strictly my opinion and how I feel. To me the situation is a deal breaker, I would never be comfortable with having my partner be friends with his ex or for that matter having anything to do with him. Yes, they had their time together and did not worked out, now is your time. Yes, I am a jealous person but a reasonable one and being friends with your ex is not something I would be comfortable with. Communication is the most important part of a relationship, very early in my relationship with my partner I made it very clear that I was not interested in meeting any of his previous friends, and that I tend to be a jealous person and I am not interested in sharing him with anyone. Again, this was an unreasonable statement, but that is when communication comes in; I made my voice and feelings know as crazy as they might be. Talk and communicate with each other and let your crazy out so your partner can see how you feel and can make an informed decision about your future together.

[SomeBoi]

Is this normal behavior though? I have a lot of friends who have had multiple boyfriends/girlfriends, but when it ends they don't stick around like this guy has. They might be on good term but they're not best buddies doing everything still. What does that mean? Is that really possible? Quoting verbatim what Mike said to me was: "Just because someone doesn't fit in one part of your life ie as a partner, doesn't mean they don't fit in somewhere else".

With time do you think it's possible for me to get over this? I really do want to be with Mike. Maybe if I hung out with the both of them together? I'm pretty good at predicting how certain situations might make me feel but I have NO idea what I would feel in that one.

I feel like I've already put myself out there a lot to him and told him that I'm really into him. So I guess I can try and back off a little to protect myself. I don't know what to do, I really don't want to get hurt again, but I do feel like I can trust him. I mean that first summer he was completely honest about what was going on, I was just overly hopeful and thought that it was more than what it was. I don't think he has ever straight forward lied about intentions.

[TX-Beau]

Dude - the death of possibility happens when he loses respect for you. Unless he's a bastard. Don't start jumping hurdles at cost of your self respect for a chance at ANY guy. Don't go doing anything you wouldn't normally do, or are uncomfortable doing for him. You won't respect yourself for it, and it won't change his mind for the better - it will signal to him that it is possible to use you and get away with it.

You understand what I'm saying?

Yes, he was honest with you - and he chose someone else. What does that tell you? It tells you that you weren't his top priority. Why that was or (probably) is - we can't say. He's not in here explaining himself.

PLUS there is a species of guy who won't lie to you about choosing other people over you and not being exclusive, who will choose other people over you and return time after time after time............... Is that him? Don't know, but it is a possibility.

Which us why I said the expedience thingy. If he really wants to date you - you'll find out by letting him make the effort - if he doesn't, you've lost nothing and you have your answer.

What you don't want to do is go out of your way to be accommodating and available, for no reason other than because of something that happened long ago before he chose someone else over you.

It's not then, new situation, new slate. Your problem actually has nothing to do with the ex, it has to do with expectations, and the question is whether yours are realistic or not.

[Rolyo85]

Just a little side point not tied to the current situation - being friends with an ex is a super personal and situational thing. Sometimes it's just what it appears to be, and others it means unresolved stuff from the previous relationship. But speaking of "communication", if anyone told me I "can't" be friends with my exes, let alone hang out with my own friends while with him, would get his ass communicated out the door forever. Just saying. Jealousy is never acceptable as a default setting and shows extremely unattractive degrees of insecurity that I don't need in my life.

[bankside]

Mostly I don't understand how this relationship began. If someone said to me "hey let's date other random people simultaneously" I would have said "No, of course not. Good luck." I don't even know where to start with that. I would understand it for polyamorous people, but then they would just keep dating all the people they wanted to, it wouldn't be like an elimination round where people keep getting voted off until there is just one left.

So there's a whole bunch of stuff about the foundation of this relationship that I can't make sense of. But here it is. If he made a sincere mistake about dating this other guy, maybe he made a sincere mistake about breaking up with you, and now you both have a chance to fix his mistake. It could be as simple as that. He's the friend, you're the boyfriend. If it worked out like that in the first place and they had never dated, would you care now that they are friends? Maybe two mistakes have been corrected, and you should be happy about the way things are and let it be settled that way.

But suppose this guy lived in another city and they only met two months ago. Would his friendship be appropriate? His behaviour is normal for a friend? Because if either of them are inappropriate, I don't care if they are exes, they have to give it up.

Also, I don't think "veto" is the right word for it, but yeah that is kind of what it boils down to. You aren't being jealous or insecure. And you do come first.

[TX-Beau]

Come on Bankside, I've never seen a guy without issues BEGIN with the monogamous commitment. You date, NOT monogamous, and if you click, then you talk.

I'd run from a guy who tried to do it the other way 'round. I don't know you after a day, WHY would I commit to you?

[bankside]

Okay I ran from a guy so fast who met me and then after two weeks he declared his love for me because he loved me and I was the one. I was like "you don't even know the first fucking thing about me after two weeks, stalker boy, fuck off." Or something slightly politer. Slightly.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying, during those two weeks, I was not also "dating other people," because I wanted to see what could happen with this guy. If someone else had said, "hey do you want to go for coffee" I'd say "Thanks but no."

Once it was clear that I was done with Mr. Dead-End, then a date with someone else would have been great, and I could say with a smile "sure, I have no plans - that sounds great…" To me it is kind of a given that people can go two weeks without needing to fuck randoms while they figure out if the guy they're dating has potential.

I don't think that is "issues." I think it's just the ability to pay attention and not be distracted by the first shiny thing that comes along.

[Rolyo85]

I see no logic in this. Dates are a completely casual thing. I have no rules about being closed in a tower while going on a date or two with someone. After all, we're just hanging out, why should I not hang out with others? Some high school rule that says dating is monogamous? Nope.

[TX-Beau]

I agree that if I'm interested enough in you to date you repeatedly, most likely I'm not also dating someone else - but that isn't the same thing as claiming that you have a right to my monogamy BEFORE I agree to it. But then I'm not going to date you repeatedly over 2 weeks. Twice or three times maybe, and no, that isn't enough time to even begin scratching the surface. Neither of you have dropped your facade at that point.

The problem here is that the guy seems to have been contingency plan from the get go, which does make me wonder about his chances second time around.

[bankside]

I see no logic in this. Dates are a completely casual thing. I have no rules about being closed in a tower while going on a date or two with someone. After all, we're just hanging out, why should I not hang out with others? Some high school rule that says dating is monogamous? Nope.

"Just hanging out" is not a date. It's hanging out. It could occur randomly. It could occur with a big group of people. It could occur accidentally at the end of an evening when two people end up sharing the same taxi.

A date is an occasion where two people hang out deliberately because at least one of them feels a spark of attraction, and both of them want to know whether that spark will turn into anything.

[TX-Beau]

Semantics, if I ask you to dinner and get you drunk - it's a date, If I get you drunk with intent - it's a date, if we do anything where I hope to get my tongue in your mouth - it's a date. Whether or not I think you are husband material.

Dating CAN be just fun and hanging out, toss in some infatuation and the possibility of getting laid. Some of the best dating I've had, I knew going in was just going to be a thing, and not forever. Takes the pressure off, and so long as I'm not dishonest, I don't see why that must be a bad thing.

I like different guys for different reasons - I've met very few who hit enough points that I actually fell in love, been besotted with a bunch though.

[Durango95]

I have never remained friends with an ex-BF without an ulterior motive.....which 99.9% of the time was getting him back the other .1% was to see who he'd end up with. If you are hell-bent on this thing, I'd go out with the two of them together to see who is in the driver's seat on this. You should be able to tell pretty quickly. If "your" guy plays to you then it is the other guy driving this along. If "your" guy plays to him then you should excuse yourself to the restroom and leave, because you are being played.

If the other guy is driving this, just tell your guy exactly how you feel and let the chips fall where they may.

[Rolyo85]

"Just hanging out" is not a date. It's hanging out. It could occur randomly. It could occur with a big group of people. It could occur accidentally at the end of an evening when two people end up sharing the same taxi.

A date is an occasion where two people hang out deliberately because at least one of them feels a spark of attraction, and both of them want to know whether that spark will turn into anything.

Actually no, a date is planned "hanging out" where it's mutually understood that attraction MIGHT exist or arise. Especially in the digital age where a date is often planned between people who've never seen each other in person. When I know I really want to see someone again, and again, then the other people will disappear naturally. But artificially limiting myself to the one person won't expedite that process or start it if it isn't there.

[eastofeden]

Tough situation there...

It is true that exes can be friends...I was friends with two of mine...and it is absolutely true that sometimes after a relationship ends it can evolve into a different kind of relationship and sex could be the last thing either would consider.

My advice...it you really think you want to have a relationship with him or are enjoying the one you have right now...you would do well to accept that you may have to share him with his friend...or other people.

What if all your fears came true? Pretend they did. Put yourself there and talk to your future self and ask yourself...did you fall apart? What is it you are focused on? .....the time you spent together happy or the time you spent feeling unhappy? Was it worth it? Would you do it again? If you changed him too much would you recognize the guy who you are dating? Is what you like about him part of want you don't like about him?

[Seasoned]

This is about what you can live with and not so much about what's right or wrong. No matter what may or may not be going on with Josh, if you are emotionally distraught you may have to end your relationship with Mike. It's got to be an individual thing that makes some people stay friends with old boyfriends. I never understood it, but we're all wired differently. Neither my husband nor I could tolerate the other being more than friendly with an ex. Since we're on the same page it's a non-issue.

My husband had to learn how to deal with my ex-wife because she and I are friendly because we have two children and I'm gay, not bi.

I don't have a clue how one can switch from being insecure to secure over your issue except by being invited in to their friendship. I don't believe this for a moment, but let's say your insecurity was totally irrational. If you couldn't or wouldn't get over it you'd never be in an emotional healthy place. You need some reassurance and one way to get it is to see their friendship and sometimes be a part of it. Good luck.

[SomeBoi]

I appreciate all the replies. I really don't know what my next step is. I don't want to over-react, end things prematurely, and potentially be giving up a great relationship that I didn't give a chance and there really is nothing going on with Josh. Maybe the next thing I need to do really is seeing them together and what that's like. Although it's going to be hard to sit across from the guy who to me "stole" Mike away from a few years ago, lived with him for a year or more, slept with, etc.

I also feel bad to have continued conversations about it with Mike, I don't want him to see me as jealous/insecure but just that the situation makes me insecure. I don't care about any of his other friends. This is the only thing that makes me uncomfortable about his behavior, we're long distance by about 3 hours and even that is nothing.

Another weird thing is they broke up pretty recently. I think things only ended last September. It's SO soon to be jumping into a friendship with an ex that soon isn't it? I feel like Dave just isn't ready to let go of Josh, may still have feelings for him, and wants to keep him around for whatever reason I have no idea. I've been with other people before, it takes a lot longer to get over someone I think. But again, all of this is individual and just because Dave isn't matching the norm for a lot of these things I shouldn't run away?

I feel like it wouldn't go over well if I said, I want you to spend less time with Josh. I do want to say I think the level of connection you have with Josh is too deep. You shouldn't be texting/hanging out with almost as much as your current boyfriend. Who still sends "Night" texts to their ex? Mike does! He still shares his day-to-day with him. Of course he does with me too, but I don't think he can have that level of friendship transition with his ex at least this soon.

I really don't know what to do. Like I said, I want to give it a chance but I don't want to get the crappy end of the stick again.

[TX-Beau]

...I feel like it wouldn't go over well if I said, I want you to spend less time with Josh. I do want to say I think the level of connection you have with Josh is too deep. You shouldn't be texting/hanging out with almost as much as your current boyfriend. Who still sends "Night" texts to their ex? Mike does! He still shares his day-to-day with him. Of course he does with me too, but I don't think he can have that level of friendship transition with his ex at least this soon...

OK, you aren't his boyfriend. Don't try any of this. You don't have a commitment from him, so why are you acting like you do? You're getting WAYYYYYYYYYYY ahead of yourself.

What you are doing is panicking yourself into paranoia. This didn't work out last time around, perhaps you should be treating it very causally and be the one dating other guys.

Fuck expectations, get a grip on yourself and just let it ride for awhile - you are tossing a huge weight of expectation and angst on something that has already failed once. You are churning up emotions way too unreasonable for the level of commitment you've got.

YOU AREN'T MARRIED TO THE GUY!

Stop.

Slow down.

[SomeBoi]

I do appreciate the advice, I agree I need to stop and slow down. But actually yes I am his boyfriend, I guess I didn't make that clear. But we have had multiple conversations this time about being exclusive, not dating other people, etc. he has introduced me as his boyfriend to friends and family already. Just last weekend I spent Easter with him and his family etc. have spent multiple weekends and full weeks together, etc. hope that puts it into more perspective that it is kind of serious already and we are defining it as a relationship mutually.

[SomeBoi]

Correct. Because he knows how I feel about the situation it hasn't happened. He has suggested a hang out with all 3 of us, that could probably happen anytime I want it to but I felt like I need more time? I just don't know how I'd feel in that situation. Sitting across from the guy he lived with for a year, slept with, etc etc. I will think about all of that more than the new supposed "friendship".

[tonystark121]

I can understand your issues with this situation as I've been in one similar. My BF dumped for a guy we shall Bill Ray (because it's a terrible name) Well he and Billy Ray didn't work out and a year later we were back together, but he still wants to be friends with Billy Ray because "I still have feelings for him, not love but we're close" I hated it at first. Beyond hated it, I did everything short of breaking up with him that I could think of in order to get rid of the situation. But eventually I realized it was exactly what he said it was, just a friendship. I'm still not to fond of Bill Ray but I trust my BF enough that nothing untoward will happen.

[SomeBoi]

I can understand your issues with this situation as I've been in one similar. My BF dumped for a guy we shall Bill Ray (because it's a terrible name) Well he and Billy Ray didn't work out and a year later we were back together, but he still wants to be friends with Billy Ray because "I still have feelings for him, not love but we're close" I hated it at first. Beyond hated it, I did everything short of breaking up with him that I could think of in order to get rid of the situation. But eventually I realized it was exactly what he said it was, just a friendship. I'm still not to fond of Bill Ray but I trust my BF enough that nothing untoward will happen.

Anything help you over time to reach that realization? I feel like I'm spending a lot of time also trying to determine what I can do to make the ex go away even considering breaking up as not sure if I could handle it forever.

[Brian Smith]

Well, my ex and I continue being on very good terms, and my partner has tried to be supportive of that.

However, I began to notice that my partner would become moody and unhappy any time I had been talking on the phone with my ex. I noticed that, whenever I would talk about my ex, he would become insecure and keep saying, "I wish I could be more for you" and stuff like that. He never outwardly said that my continued correspondence with my ex made him uncomfortable, but he couldn't have hidden it even though I know he wanted to.

I just gradually tapered off my relationship with my ex, and it's gotten to where I only text him occasionally, particularly on holidays or his birthday. My ex has gradually moved on to greener pastures and has a broad social circle of his own. We still have very positive regard for each other, but our lives are entirely separate from each other. And we are happy.

I didn't need my partner to demand that of me. I didn't need him to express his feelings outright. He tried like Hell to cover up those feelings that he somehow had to compete with my ex or measure up to him somehow. But it was very hard on him. I knew to taper things off with the old lover because I was sensitive to his feelings and cared deeply about his welfare.

But the most helpful thing he said to me was when he told me exactly how he felt: once when I asked why he was suddenly moody after I had called my ex (let's call him "John"), he said, "you say that 'John says this' and 'John does that'. I don't feel like I could ever be that much of a person for you." He didn't tell me what he expected me to do about it. He just told me with total, pure honesty how he felt. He was really kind of ashamed of it, but I am glad that he came clean with me. He did me a great service by that.

It was my job to decide what to do about it, not his. It would have been awful for me to put him in the position of telling me whom I can and can't talk to. It would have been morally unacceptable for me to make him feel like he was somehow being a jealous and controlling lover. I had to care enough about him to take my own initiative to wean myself off of my previous attachment. The right thing was for it to come from ME.

But that's just how I felt about the matter. Maybe you guys will end up handling it differently.

[M4P]

Both my partner (of 16+ years) and I have friendships with people we dated in the past. I believe "Mike" when he said we make better friends than partners - this is a mature statement. I was broken hearted when my ex and I broke up years ago. I missed him so much afterwards. We were good friends and when the relationship ended he was gone from my life. Fast forward about 8 years we crossed paths in a store and must have talked for two hours. Today we're friends. Good friends! I enjoy visiting with him and share so many of his values. I don't miss dating him and can't imagine nor do I desire to do the mattress dance with him. We're just friends. I hope you can allow yourself to trust Mike

[tonystark121]

Anything help you over time to reach that realization? I feel like I'm spending a lot of time also trying to determine what I can do to make the ex go away even considering breaking up as not sure if I could handle it forever.

Honestly? No. It took me over a year to get used to the idea, perhaps it helped when I stopped focusing on it. Really this is a problem only you can put away yourself. Sure you might be able to convince him to stop being friends with the ex, but then you're the boyfriend who is trying to dictate terms and conditions of your relationship. Is that what you really want? No probably not, most of us aren't complete psychos. And remind yourself that they broke up for a reason, and whatever that reason may be it has more then likely not gone away, and if he's trying to date you then he has more then likely moved on

[SomeBoi]

I need advice on how to approach Mike about how it's really bothering me, but without seeming controlling, and I don't want to ask that they don't hang out. Any suggestions?? Here's the current situation: Mike is currently away for work, flying home May 3 and will be a month since we last saw eachother in person, and will be in his hometown for one day on May 4. Then after we will be staying together in a nearby city for a week before he has to fly off for work for a little bit again.

I told him I could come up May 3/May 4, I honestly wanted to surprise him and be at his house for when he gets off from the airport. But he told me he is going to be hanging out with Josh morning/afternoon of May 4th until I get there. Hanging out with Josh still seems like such a priority for him? It bothers me so much that instead of spending half the day with any of his other friends, he's picking Josh. It's not even about Josh cutting into our time together, we will have a whole week, but I can't stop dwelling on the fact they're going to hang out as soon as he gets home. As soon as I see him I feel like I'm going to be less excited/kind of down seeing him on May 4th after I know they just finished hanging out all day. I don't even know what they do together. I don't know why it bothers me so much, I trust him, it just really makes me feel uneasy and it's always on my mind.

What should I do or say? @Brian Smith: I really, really wish Mike would do exactly what you did, but I don't think it's going to happen. I have no idea how to induce that haha.

[Brian Smith]

Well, let me reflect again on how much my partner helped me by just saying plainly how he reacted, not imposing anything on me but just saying what his feelings were. He indicated that he felt distressed, and it was up to me to figure out how to resolve that. It empowered me to make the call on what to do.

And, if he wants to be a dick about it, well, you can't have everything. You have to eventually weigh the cost/gain ratio, and make up your mind whether you really think he cares about you. If you have told him that certain things upset you and he doesn't make any move to make you feel more comfortable about things, even being more discreet, that isn't a deal-breaker.

However, if that were part of a litany of ways that he hasn't considered your feelings in the relationship, the first step would be what I call a "come to Jesus meeting." That's as sinister in practice as it sounds. It means having a serious, no-bullshit discussion about the fact that you are seriously questioning the future of the relationship, and he can either make up his mind to straighten up and fly right or just call it quits VERY soon. The step after that is to take a long, long walk, and tell him to find someone else to treat as his doormat.

But the first step is to just be honest about how YOU are being affected. Don't give him any prescription for how to handle it. If he asks, tell him straight-out, "I can't tell you how to live your life. I can tell you how I feel, but I refuse to tell you what to do about it. That's up to you."

Again, I can see the possibility of letting this little pig slide if he otherwise makes the relationship worth your while. It's not by itself a deal-breaker, the way I see it. You have to make a certain number of allowances for things in a relationship that you don't particularly like. If you tell him your feelings and he doesn't want to help you feel more comfortable, just mark it down as a "strike."