Frank Bruni, Gay Op Ed NYTimes Columnist, Discusses His Illegal Immigrant Grandfather, from Italy

[MassRuss]

Give it a read. (Clue gnashing of xenophobic teeth)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/op...he-outlaw.html

[xbuzzerx]

I like that this article brought up something that I know came up around here a few weeks back, about how in that time period Italians and Irish were not universally or consistently "counted" as white, they were frequently a "separate" category much like Hispanic is today. I remember at least one person reacting as if I was on drugs when I said that.

Good read.

[nycguydowntown]

Same story with my grandfather from Italy.

[Rolyo85]

Tony Soprano feels the same way

[JOE60RET]

BTW Frank is openly gay. Go to his blog. It is very interesting about gay marraige and other gay-related items.

[palemale]

I like that this article brought up something that I know came up around here a few weeks back, about how in that time period Italians and Irish were not universally or consistently "counted" as white, they were frequently a "separate" category much like Hispanic is today. I remember at least one person reacting as if I was on drugs when I said that.

Good read.

There is a book called "How the Irish Became White." In the U.S. Census in the 19th Century, almost to the 20th Century I believe, the Irish were classified as non-white.

My great-grandfather was born in Ireland, but came across the border from Canada. He ended up there as a child laborer because his peasant family sold him into servitude to an English family that took him to Canada. Unfortunately, in the 19th Century, it was very common for large, Irish peasant families to sell some of their children into servitude in order to feed the others. My great-grandfather's experience was repeated tens of thousands of times. I've heard similar stories from other Irish Americans.

There's a reason anti-immigrant sentiment is pretty rare in the Northeast, certainly in the NYC Metro area. So many of us are first and second generation, had family members with accents, and have heard family stories about how our Italian, Jewish or Irish forebears fled extremely difficult circumstances in their home countries. Sympathy for immigrants is pretty strong here.

[pat grimshaw]

There is a book called "How the Irish Became White." …

So palemale, do you agree with the author's description of the Irish people as "non-white people"?

[itsmejeff]

There's a reason anti-immigrant sentiment is pretty rare in the Northeast, certainly in the NYC Metro area. So many of us are first and second generation, had family members with accents, and have heard family stories about how our Italian, Jewish or Irish forebears fled extremely difficult circumstances in their home countries. Sympathy for immigrants is pretty strong here.

Northern cities are also wealthier, have more educational opportunities, and got over their rambunctious periods long ago.

This is not to say anti-immigrant sentiment was or is nonexistent in the north. From the colonial days up until the 20th century, there is a nice history of xenophobia and nationalism in the north.

[Rolyo85]

So palemale, do you agree with the author's description of the Irish people as "non-white people"?

Witness, ladies and gentlemen, the reading comprehension that modern science can bring to dolphins!

[maxpowr9]

There is a book called "How the Irish Became White." In the U.S. Census in the 19th Century, almost to the 20th Century I believe, the Irish were classified as non-white.

My great-grandfather was born in Ireland, but came across the border from Canada. He ended up there as a child laborer because his peasant family sold him into servitude to an English family that took him to Canada. Unfortunately, in the 19th Century, it was very common for large, Irish peasant families to sell some of their children into servitude in order to feed the others. My great-grandfather's experience was repeated tens of thousands of times. I've heard similar stories from other Irish Americans.

There's a reason anti-immigrant sentiment is pretty rare in the Northeast, certainly in the NYC Metro area. So many of us are first and second generation, had family members with accents, and have heard family stories about how our Italian, Jewish or Irish forebears fled extremely difficult circumstances in their home countries. Sympathy for immigrants is pretty strong here.

It's funny because you look at what classifies as "race" now, the Northeast is the "whitest" region in the country. My babcie [RIP] came over from Poland post-WWII seeking exile so that would technically make me second generation as my dad's family came over from Ireland in 1848. Hell, my mom's sister was born in Germany during the war with the very Polish and appropriate name of Miroslawa.

[xbuzzerx]

It's funny because you look at what classifies as "race" now, the Northeast is the "whitest" region in the country. My babcie [RIP] came over from Poland post-WWII seeking exile so that would technically make me second generation as my dad's family came over from Ireland in 1848. Hell, my mom's sister was born in Germany during the war with the very Polish and appropriate name of Miroslawa.

If I'm understanding you correctly, that would make you third generation. First generation immigrants are the ones who came over.