California Has Budget Surplus, Eliminates Budget Deficit

[palemale]

California Gov. Jerry Brown's budget will post a surplus of over $850 million this year, down from a $9 billion deficit last year. Unemployment is forecast to fall, California will have surpluses in coming years, will be able to spend more on education and health care, and will be able to put away $1 billion for a rainy day fund. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2450349.html

It's amazing what can happen when there is a Democratic executive and Democratic super-majorities in the legislature. Republicans are unable to fuck things up.

[xbuzzerx]

Yup. Our state economy has been pretty crippled whenever Republicans have enough power to hold things up. It always enraged me a bit how people would point at California like an exemplar of "look what liberal policies get you" when, in reality, our state level government has very frequently had a strong Republican voice and a long tradition of Republican governors.

[JB3]

California Gov. Jerry Brown's budget will post a surplus of over $850 million this year, down from a $9 billion deficit last year. Unemployment is forecast to fall, California will have surpluses in coming years, will be able to spend more on education and health care, and will be able to put away $1 billion for a rainy day fund. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2450349.html

It's amazing what can happen when there is a Democratic executive and Democratic super-majorities in the legislature. Republicans are unable to fuck things up.

*ahem* Illinois. *ahem*

We have democratic super-majorities here, and liberal republicans, and our fiscal house is in worse shape than California.

[eastofeden]

...not only a Democrat...but a "Librul" Democrat. Imagine that.

[xbuzzerx]

[/B]
*ahem* Illinois. *ahem*

We have democratic super-majorities here, and liberal republicans, and our fiscal house is in worse shape than California.

The "worse shape" comparison you are referencing in regards to CA was under Arnold and his reaganomic idea of taxing and spending, aided by state Republicans. And borrowing from the state budget to pay for things he refused to tax for, resulting in enormous cuts to state healthcare and state public education.

[maxpowr9]

[/B]
*ahem* Illinois. *ahem*

We have democratic super-majorities here, and liberal republicans, and our fiscal house is in worse shape than California.

MA is no picnic either. Reckon we have inherently corrupt public unions. As I point out regularly, the MBTA has more debt than some entire states.

[JB3]

The "worse shape" comparison you are referencing in regards to CA was under Arnold and his reaganomic idea of taxing and spending, aided by state Republicans. And borrowing from the state budget to pay for things he refused to tax for, resulting in enormous cuts to state healthcare and state public education.

We'll be there soon. Our governor is a pathetic excuse for a leader, and the leader of our state house is a giant wuss. (yesterday he admitted he refuses to do anything about the pensions because he doesn't want to lose his job)

[palbert]

I await the sale of the "ruby slippers." When the day dawns the reality will be different.

[Luciant]

In fairness, palemale, the article you linked mentions a proposed budget that relies on forecasts--basically guesses. I really hope California can turn itself around, but I'll remain skeptical until I see the hard numbers. Notice that the article did not mention the budget's central assumptions and policies. Talk is cheap. It's easy to publish a report. Actually achieving the results is another matter.

Obviously, though the article only implies this fact, the state will need much higher tax revenues. California already has some of the highest taxes in the nation. I realize that the rich have been coddled, and I'm not necessarily anti-tax, but I am anti-idiotic tax. Will businesses be able to survive Obamacare on top of everything else? We'll see.

[palemale]

In fairness, palemale, the article you linked mentions a proposed budget that relies on forecasts--basically guesses. I really hope California can turn itself around, but I'll remain skeptical until I see the hard numbers. Notice that the article did not mention the budget's central assumptions and policies. Talk is cheap. It's easy to publish a report. Actually achieving the results is another matter.

Obviously, though the article only implies this fact, the state will need much higher tax revenues. California already has some of the highest taxes in the nation. I realize that the rich have been coddled, and I'm not necessarily anti-tax, but I am anti-idiotic tax. Will businesses be able to survive Obamacare on top of everything else? We'll see.

I'm aware of that, which is why I said his budge WILL post a surplus. Of course, in prior years, the state was projected to have a $9 billion and $25 billion deficit.

[palemale]

[/B]
*ahem* Illinois. *ahem*

We have democratic super-majorities here, and liberal republicans, and our fiscal house is in worse shape than California.

Didn't it get in bad shape under Republican governors, one of whom is serving time in the big house along with the last Democratic governor?

[xbuzzerx]

Didn't it get in bad shape under Republican governors, one of whom is serving time in the big house along with the last Democratic governor?

These details always get overlooked when people judge a horrible economic state in the U.S...

[JB3]

Didn't it get in bad shape under Republican governors, one of whom is serving time in the big house along with the last Democratic governor?

No. It was actually doing okay until Blago, mainly because the government actually, you know, did stuff. Even when there were problems, they were fixed. Under Blago, and now Quinn, no problems have been fixed. The state owes $9 billion to schools, hospitals, and service providers, and has a $97 billion unfunded pension liability.

[JB3]

Nope. This state has balanced its budget and it's budget deficit is down to $1.9 billion right now. These are hard numbers and are being balanced even further. It's not just talk. It's actual fact.



California has improved its economic picture, and has been the leader in job creation in the last year out of the entire country. Have anymore distortions to post?

And I can see the California bashfest is out in full force. California has been the leader in job creation. EXPLAIN THAT!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_16...-job-creation/

Unless some come up with more lame excuses about why this isn't "somehow true"...

WE turned everything around. And this isn't about "surviving Obamacare". Obamacare doesn't cost businesses that much. And what's anti-idiotic tax? Being against things you don't support?

California has surpassed and knocked down Texas in job creation. Asides from that we are creating real high paying jobs... Texas mostly creates low paying ones. I guess "surviving Obamacare" isn't all that bad.

Oh and because of this our revenues have indeed shot up. I guess all the right wingers have is now lame excuses when they are trying to knock down the economic leader in the nation. Oh and we reclaimed our status as a job creator. Texas doesn't have sh*t. Their lower taxes didn't actually help create infrastructure and they have an idiot governor.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics disagrees with you:

http://wpcarey.asu.edu/bluechip/jobg...ure_states.cfm

[xbuzzerx]

No. It was actually doing okay until Blago, mainly because the government actually, you know, did stuff. Even when there were problems, they were fixed. Under Blago, and now Quinn, no problems have been fixed. The state owes $9 billion to schools, hospitals, and service providers, and has a $97 billion unfunded pension liability.

No one will defend Blago... he was definitely corrupt and nuts.

[M4P]

I'll believe this when I see it

And I do want to see it happen because I own property in CA that is worth 40% less than it was in 2008

[Sausy]

Brown has kept a big leash on public spending and in November voters agreed to "temporary" increased sale and income taxes on weathier residents. It's gutsy in a state that spending and accounting gimmickry has been the norm and doesn't include the $100 billion in unfunded pension liabilities or around $28 billion in other accumulated structural debt. Brown should be lauded for his moves for the most part so far, but any recovery is tenuous and is both dependent on the national climate(Dems have shown far more appetite for tax increases than real restraint in spending in Washington) and a continued fiscal responsibilty and ability to draw down the public debt structural debt still owed. As others have said here to temper the gratuitously partisan cheerleading of the OP,other largely Democratic controlled states are still in very precarious fiscal situations.

That said, California's economy would place it if it were a sovereign state among the most productive economies of the world. It's in everyone's interest to see California gaining more strength and stability economically in the near future, and build on this.

[M4P]

My property is in Palm Springs. The desert cities are so depressed - empty storefronts and constant closures of essential services - jails, firehalls, and transit. It isn't my primary residence but I still feel impacted. I truly hope CA turns the corner

[xbuzzerx]

My property is in Palm Springs. The desert cities are so depressed - empty storefronts and constant closures of essential services - jails, firehalls, and transit. It isn't my primary residence but I still feel impacted. I truly hope CA turns the corner

In fairness that's hardly an accurate cross section of California. Palm Springs is.. well, as you said, it's out in the middle of the desert. It's in good times a sort of third tier resort area. The real employment is elsewhere.

[M4P]

In fairness that's hardly an accurate cross section of California. Palm Springs is.. well, as you said, it's out in the middle of the desert. It's in good times a sort of third tier resort area. The real employment is elsewhere.

Very true

And as the rest of the state prospers the desert cities will come back

[M4P]

CA is either the 7th or 8th largest economy in the world so we all want it to succeed

What I don't get are the property tax policies which are based on the value of the home. Mine have continued to decrease which means less money for services - fire, police, schools... Just because the value of my home dropped doesn't mean the cost to deliver essential services decrease. I have found it depressing to see closures in what I see as essential services. I know as the economy improves the revenue will increase but IMHO policies need to change

[xbuzzerx]

I guess it's very difficult for anyone to give this state real credit...

Agreed, I don't get the double standard (other than playing politics) of how we listen to years about how Texas has a balanced budget or whatever, but when CA starts doing really well there's this overmassive skepticism that it's "real."

[M4P]

This all goes back to Prop 13 which needs to be eliminated as soon as possible. It's causing serious damage to certain services in areas. The funding needs to be more equitable. This has hit working class neighborhoods particularly hard, and is still a problem in urban areas in particular.

Yup. I understand Prop 13 came into effect when property values were high and people couldn't afford their taxes. It was probably a good idea at the time. Definitely a new system needs to be put into place

I hope I didn't come across as negative or insulting towards CA because that wasn't my intent. The state is my second home and I care

[Just_Believe18]

Jerry Brown is a respectable man with a true sense of leadership. He's a pragmatist who has a love for his state and genuinely cares about the welfare of its citizens. His leadership has brought California to the rebound it has so desperately needed.

[JB3]

Err wrong. They don't.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...utpaces-texass - And these are Bureau of Labor Statistics.

These are figures since July 2011.

Read my posts more CLEARLY please. It's easy to say "so and so disagrees with you"... when it's clearly not addressing the crux of my argument.

Have some here ever been to California? Answer that. Either way, don't engage in irrational California bashing. According to the Bureau of Labor, California leads in job growth.

Edit: And let me add, California's unemployment rate has fell below 10%.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...184625641.html

And on top of that revenues are increasing across the board for various sectors. This clearly shows California's economy is once again leading this country. So lets stick to the facts.

That may have been true in September, when that article was published. However, year over year through November, Texas added 10,000 more jobs than California. (275k vs. 265k) Same goes for the rolling 12 month. (242k for Texas and 238k for California)

[JB3]

NOT EXACTLY. I posted a more recent article.

And it must once again be noted... Texas's poverty rate shot up and most of those jobs were low paying. So that demolishes that argument. And most of California's jobs created were high paying. Texas is a state where more and more people are being left behind.

I guess anything to discredit California's recovery... even when that means putting the blinders on and reading statistics one sided. When most of California's jobs are permanent and high paying that means a lot more than the meaningless "job growth" Texas is having.

Not quite sure what they're looking at, because I'm looking at the BLS statistics right now and California was at 204k and Texas was at 258k.

[JB3]

Again look at the facts I posted. And not the distortions. Texas has poor paying jobs being created, California has high paying jobs being created (including 56,000 related to the IT Sector alone last year).

Why is there a refusal to look at the quality of jobs being created? Doesn't support the anti-California agenda?

And 204k? No that's wrong. It's not 204k.

What distortion? I have the Federal BLS statistics open. They can't be distorted. Texas created more jobs in 2012 than California according to the Federal Government.

[JB3]

It's not true though when looking at the time span I'm talking about.

And why is there is a REFUSAL to talk about the QUALITY of the jobs being created? Stop dodging the question. They are definitely distorted considering the low paying jobs being created in Texas.

Again the ANTI-CALIFORNIA AGENDA is at work here. Texas will continue creating low paying jobs, and we will keep creating high paying ones. End of discussion.

Edit: and welcome to my ignore list. I don't have time for this.

It is absolutely true. I just double-checked California's own department of labor, and they have the exact same statistics.

In your initial post in this thread, you said this:

California has improved its economic picture, and has been the leader in job creation in the last year out of the entire country. Have anymore distortions to post?

And I can see the California bashfest is out in full force. California has been the leader in job creation. EXPLAIN THAT!

And this:

California has surpassed and knocked down Texas in job creation. Asides from that we are creating real high paying jobs... Texas mostly creates low paying ones. I guess "surviving Obamacare" isn't all that bad.

Both of which are categorically false. California was barely in the top 10, let alone the top job creator. I would also ask you to provide statistics on your premise that Texas' jobs are all lower-paying or lower quality, but I know you can't provide them.

[Jack Springer]

I don't get too excited about the local weather-caster's long range forecast and won't get excited about California entering the black.

Time will tell.

[rareboy]

^ But you would be trumpeting about California as representative of the state of the whole country under Democratic governance if the story was the other way around and California was running a deficit since the Democrats took the reins.

Then the rainshower in LA would portend a typhoon for the rest of the country.

Oh. Jack.

[JayHawk]

State-ism is as destructive on the national scene as nationalism is on the international scene.

[JayHawk]

As you posted above ... I don't have time for this. But what the hell I haven't been on high school debate team since... well high school.

Your state you currently reside in is creating jobs. Last I checked the entire country is recovering. Your first post was a gauntlet thrown on the floor daring anyone to say a false word about California. What you initially stated you had then qualify to make it true yet your refuse to admit the initial was wrong. I sincerely hope that the projections become reality and California develops a surplus that they then return to their taxpayers in the form of a strong infrastructure and a healthy emergency fund. What I don't get is why are you so paranoid about your state receiving a ill word? What I also don't get is from someone who would argue against American hubris on the national scene and yet you exhibit the same hubris in regards to your state or at least you try to.... I simply don't understand why you are so fiercely loyal to a state but not to the country that makes that state possible. It's odd to me. Feel free to be so but it just seems a weird combination.

[xbuzzerx]

As you posted above ... I don't have time for this. But what the hell I haven't been on high school debate team since... well high school.

Your state you currently reside in is creating jobs. Last I checked the entire country is recovering. Your first post was a gauntlet thrown on the floor daring anyone to say a false word about California. What you initially stated you had then qualify to make it true yet your refuse to admit the initial was wrong. I sincerely hope that the projections become reality and California develops a surplus that they then return to their taxpayers in the form of a strong infrastructure and a healthy emergency fund. What I don't get is why are you so paranoid about your state receiving a ill word? What I also don't get is from someone who would argue against American hubris on the national scene and yet you exhibit the same hubris in regards to your state or at least you try to.... I simply don't understand why you are so fiercely loyal to a state but not to the country that makes that state possible. It's odd to me. Feel free to be so but it just seems a weird combination.

Perhaps being from a part of the country that so frequently makes fun of CA it may be hard to picture quite how much any flaw, mistake, economic dip or bad budget in CA is quickly pounced upon by people around the country as the excuse for the general eyeroll attitude so many people already have abour our state to begin with.

Personally I'm tired of years of listening to how CA is the "example" of "look what you get with liberals in charge" when, in reality, there's been so much Republican state level control of our government for decades. Enough to really damage our economy and budget negotiations and create huge deficits, even if they didn't have supermajorities.

It's not about "California is better than you" it's about when California is doing poorly that's everyone's excuse to bash it legitimately, and when it appears to be doing well everyone acts like it's all a huge lie. It gets old Jayhawk.

[palbert]

Isn't CA basically it's own enterprise and irrelevant to the national discourse?

[JayHawk]

Perhaps being from a part of the country that so frequently makes fun of CA it may be hard to picture quite how much any flaw, mistake, economic dip or bad budget in CA is quickly pounced upon by people around the country as the excuse for the general eyeroll attitude so many people already have abour our state to begin with.

Personally I'm tired of years of listening to how CA is the "example" of "look what you get with liberals in charge" when, in reality, there's been so much Republican state level control of our government for decades. Enough to really damage our economy and budget negotiations and create huge deficits, even if they didn't have supermajorities.

It's not about "California is better than you" it's about when California is doing poorly that's everyone's excuse to bash it legitimately, and when it appears to be doing well everyone acts like it's all a huge lie. It gets old Jayhawk.

I imagine it does. However, California is a huge example of what can happen when things are mismanaged. You are correct that right wingers have used that idea for years to bash 'librul' California. While at the same time ignoring the shitty outcomes and required federal spending in their own backyards. I agree most red states are welfare states. However, I still find it peculiar to be so unabashedly a white knight of California defense while trashing the nation and its people for being proponents of the Nation. I feel pride as an Ohioan and equally I feel pride as an American. I don't see making a vast separation between the two.

California has many appealing things and many unappealing things. Lived there twice and loved it but didn't mind leaving. I will visit and still have the same joys... unless of course I can find a way to afford San Fran for a few years. But only for a few years. I think for the long term the 'librul' state I will choose will be Colorado when the time comes to live in one spot... IF that time ever comes.

Everyone here whether they like to admit it or not understands that unfettered capitalism in places like Texas has resulted in high employment improvements but at poverty waged jobs. California is making a shit ton of higher paying jobs and for the quality factor you can give them an edge. The thing you have to wonder is how deep of an unemployment well is there to service and find well paying jobs? That is no easy answer. California is a slice of America. However she is also the eighth largest economy on planet earth. SO it is a damn good sign she is recovering.

However that recovery isn't the story of ONLY liberal democratic thinking. Were pensions cut and benefits slashed because they failed to meet up with reality? AND taxes were raised. If anything California is a shining example that the right is somewhere off the reservation and the Democratic party now contains all flavors and ideas to represent most of America. We are seeing the same thing on a national level but it is a slower process.

[xbuzzerx]

Well just for the record if there was any question I don't think CA > rest of the nation or CA > this state or that state. I do however think CA's massive economy (as a former person pointed out, if separated into a sovereign nation it would be like 10th or 12 biggest economy in the world or something last I checked?) is important enough that really it's in the whole country's best interest for California to be doing well, and instead it so often feels like so many people have a political interest in seeing it fail.

This is all an /aside, it's off topic and not relevant to the specific points between GC and JB, so I apologize for that.

[JayHawk]

Nah it is just carrying the conversation further. They can pull each others hair out over BLS stats and article truthy-ness all they want still. California has always been a tattletale of where the nation is headed because of size and population. It is telling a tale now too and it is good. Give Texas thirty years and they will be headed in the same direction....

[Jack Springer]

^ But you would be trumpeting about California as representative of the state of the whole country under Democratic governance if the story was the other way around and California was running a deficit since the Democrats took the reins.

Then the rainshower in LA would portend a typhoon for the rest of the country.

Oh. Jack.

It's still all about hope. Hope is good, but it's not results.

Doesn't change anything -- only time will tell.

[JB3]

Funny how Jb3 demands evidence yet can't provide any. I provided fucking sources for my argument. And all he proivdes is the same anti California nonsense. There was nothing false with what I said. Some can't handle proper evidence.

Uhm. The evidence I gave was directly from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and California Bureau of Labor. The people that, you know, actually collect and disseminate the data you're talking about.

[JB3]

I provided sources that included numbers from the BLS. I actually provided an ACTUAL argument too. And one not tainted by a blatant anti-CAlifornia agenda. I know people here would love to see this state sink into the ocean so they could prove some political point.

Your argument was proven incorrect using those same statistics. You would do well to remember that.

[JB3]

I am defensive because of the non-stop bashing by right wingers in this country. The criticisms are endless and ridiculous. Most of them without merit. Most of our problems started under the Deukemajian and Pete Wilson eras... where our state was grossly mismanaged. It only became worse under Arnold Schwarzenegger who drove this state to near bankruptcy.



This state has already turned around its deficit so I don't see why it shouldn't meet that reality.

It's funny how if this was any other state some right wingers here would be cheering it, but if it is California there are doubts it'll ever get there.



I am defending this state from the endless hatred and bashing it gets from right wingers in this country. Never mind that we pay the federal government more than we get back from them. We actually give them more money so they can prop up states that would otherwise have poverty levels similar to that of Haiti if they were independent.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ng-charts-maps

There is no hubris. This is stating reality.

Why does California continue to flip the bill for other states to survive yet we get criticized so harshly and any moment someone defends California they are being called arrogant?

This post is a very graphic example of the arrogance and hubris he was talking about.

You also seem to have a chip on your shoulder about your state. No state is perfect, and neither are its citizens.

[rareboy]

I provided sources that included numbers from the BLS. I actually provided an ACTUAL argument too. And one not tainted by a blatant anti-CAlifornia agenda. I know people here would love to see this state sink into the ocean so they could prove some political point.

And out there in America, there are probably millions who literally want it to sink in the Ocean so that they could blame the homos.

[JayHawk]

And out there in America, there are probably millions who literally want it to sink in the Ocean so that they could blame the homos.

There may be but they are no less prevalent than the hill fucks in western Canada. However, their numbers are dwindling.

Very deep intellectual responses above yet i cant be arsed to read them. I get it GC you feel you are right and everyone else is ganging up on you and also are wrong. Check. Next.

[JayHawk]

Well then I apologize wholly. I am sure you have never said anything disparaging about the country as a whole in comparison to Europe during the health care debate, now of course that you have told me so.

I think what will be astounding when the economy recovers exactly as predicted by economist when Bush was still President and it fell apart. They said 2015 and that is looking like the facts. After all of the political wrangling in the nation and economic hand wringing offered on both the left and right nationwide and on these boards.... I find it amusing.

[xbuzzerx]

And out there in America, there are probably millions who literally want it to sink in the Ocean so that they could blame the homos.

Don't be silly. That's New Orleans.

[Kulindahr]

That may have been true in September, when that article was published. However, year over year through November, Texas added 10,000 more jobs than California. (275k vs. 265k) Same goes for the rolling 12 month. (242k for Texas and 238k for California)

And how many of those jobs are such that a person can afford good medical care, a decent home, savings for retirement, and hopes of a family? That's the real question, because if jobs won't provide for a future, they're serfdom.

[JB3]

And how many of those jobs are such that a person can afford good medical care, a decent home, savings for retirement, and hopes of a family? That's the real question, because if jobs won't provide for a future, they're serfdom.

That's a question that can be asked of all of the jobs added over the last year. Though there aren't enough statistics to determine it, I would wager many of the jobs just simply aren't enough for people to survive.

[chance1]

The budget is based on receipt of increased income taxes - that need to be collected - as in the people have to be making the money

it's predicated on taking the state's current debt $34 BILLION - which is size of the combined general budgets of Delaware, Idaho, Maine, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont and Virginia .......

and more than offsetting it with $50B in tax increases

And Californians have yet to see any real, long-term plan to bring back jobs and help our struggling families.”

Worse, most of these taxes are levied on the state's wealthiest residents. Many of them live off risky stock market investments rather than stable salaries, Mr. Petek said, which leaves their incomes vulnerable to dramatic swings.

and there's some concern that the state legislature, democratic controlled, will not be willing to politically support cuts - in education for example

http://times247.com/articles/l-a-tim...-woes-are-over

[xbuzzerx]

So if I'm reading this correctly.. CA aiming its nose in a sharp trajectory upwards from a former 9 BILLION dollar deficit is now a bad thing because it isn't a guarantee that every problem has been fixed instantly?

Kinda like the standard used against the President I think.

[chance1]

And out there in America, there are probably millions who literally want it to sink in the Ocean so that they could blame the homos.

i needed to quote this if only to read it again

i have NO idea what you're thinking here ...... does anyone?

"out there in america there are probably millions who want california ......... and blame the homos"

WTF ???

even for you this is bizarre anti americanism