I called it.

[rareboy]

I predicted that by the end of the first week of January...there would be little discussion about guns and gun control in the US once the 24/7 news machine had tired of the story.

Most of the country has moved on and left Sandyhook behind.

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_r...y=80&size=650x

Just have to figure out what to do about the building.

Biden has, however, started the sterile consultation process with Walmart and the NRA at the table. Walmart (country's largest gun seller) apparently wasn't going to show but were somehow 'persuaded'.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/...ry?id=18174779

Cuomo though, seems ready to take on the mantle of leadership on the issue:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...-fiery-speech/

Jon Stewart certainly delivered a solid punch on the subject...right down to having his guest Stanley McChrystal...the man with the plan for Afghanistan comment on the need to restrict the presence of assault weapons.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-epi...ley-mcchrystal

The Comedy Central host slammed right-wing conservatives for blaming “non-gun causes of gun violence” after recent shootings; he showed clips of pro-gun pundits blaming video games, Hollywood and even personal sin instead of discussing ways to address gun violence directly.
He compared the gun control issue to drunk driving, pointing out the decline of these deadly vehicular incidents and arguing that the same change can be made to the gun culture through tighter and better enforcement of laws.

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/01/09/the-d...ontrol-debate/

[Telstra]

.
those leaders who support machine guns should experience tragic lost of their family members by gun shots.
The sooner they experience it the better.

[HenryReardon]

Most of the country has moved on and left Sandyhook behind.

]

Which is as it should be.

Actions taken by lawmakers who let themselves be stampeded by mindless hysteria are neither good nor effective.

[cityboy-stl]

CNN Starting Point just talked about guns and gun control for the past half hour. I think you are mistaken.

[HenryReardon]

CNN Starting Point just talked about guns and gun control for the past half hour. I think you are mistaken.

Take a look at the Landes-Lott Study:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...ract_id=161637


It is an academic, peer-reviewed, long-term study of the effect of various public policies on public, multiple shootings in all 50 states over a 20-year period performed by renowned economists at the University of Chicago and Yale, William Landes and John Lott. It concluded that the only policy to reduce the incidence of, and casualties from, mass shootings are concealed-carry laws.

[frankfrank]

It's still at least in the Top 4 or Top 5 stories getting the most coverage. Even that surprises me because - as I believe rareboy may concur - I actually expected the issue to be *completely* forgotten by now, as usually happens in US politics. Often two weeks is an eternity for American political memory.

Especially with all the holidays intervening, I certainly expected the issue to be gone...

[JayHawk]

An entire hour of Morning Joe was devoted to gun control. What news are you watching?

That said i do not disagree that Americans want it now and if it is too hard then they get bored. In the majority opinion arena. However Our leaders, particularly our Governors need to keep the issue hot and they will. Just as Obama's coming executive actions will bring outcries and lawsuits that will last years.

This story will not die on the vine.

[frankfrank]

Of course the American right to deploy "smart guns"** wherever the United States chooses to, shall not be abridged.

**A CANNON is a huge, huge gun. And the drones are very much like smart cannons, with target guidance.

[chrisrobin]

.............

an entire hour of morning joe was devoted to gun control. What news are you watching?

Fox?

[Jack Springer]

Maybe its the Canadian filter of US news but gun control is the number topic in the USA right now.

On the news, at work, at the gym, at the bar, at family gatherings ... everywhere people are talking.

[andysayshi]

Take a look at the Landes-Lott Study:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...ract_id=161637


It is an academic, peer-reviewed, long-term study of the effect of various public policies on public, multiple shootings in all 50 states over a 20-year period performed by renowned economists at the University of Chicago and Yale, William Landes and John Lott. It concluded that the only policy to reduce the incidence of, and casualties from, mass shootings are concealed-carry laws.

John Lott is a liar, and the laughing stock of his academic peers for using fake data, and for creating a fake persona to give online credibility to his work.

Here's a recent post I made on the subject.

[White Eagle]

This is an interesting twist to the subject. Could it possibly be lead poisoning causing our youth to go mental enough to gun down whoever they want?
I saw this yesterday on probably MSNBC but it didn't click. I forgot about it as soon as the show was over.

http://www.monbiot.com/2013/01/07/th...ind-the-crime/

The Grime Behind the Crime
January 7, 2013

Could an astonishing explanation for the rise and fall of violent crime be correct?

By George Monbiot, published in the Guardian 8th January 2013

It seemed, at first, preposterous. The hypothesis was so exotic that I laughed. The rise and fall of violent crime during the second half of the 20th century and first years of the 21st were caused, it proposed, not by changes in policing or imprisonment, single parenthood, recession, crack cocaine or the legalisation of abortion, but mainly by … lead.

And here's the wiki link. I haven't heard of him but he wants Blair arrested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Monbiot0

George Joshua Richard Monbiot (born 27 January 1963 in Kensington, London[1]) is an English writer, known for his environmental and political activism. He lives in Machynlleth, Wales,[2] writes a weekly column for The Guardian, and is the author of a number of books, including Captive State: The Corporate Takeover of Britain (2000) and Bring on the Apocalypse: Six Arguments for Global Justice (2008). He is the founder of The Land is Ours campaign, which campaigns peacefully for the right of access to the countryside and its resources in the United Kingdom.[3] In January 2010, Monbiot founded the ArrestBlair.org website which offers a reward to people attempting a peaceful citizen’s arrest of former British prime minister Tony Blair for alleged crimes against peace.[4]

[palbert]

I would not rely on TV coverage to determine the depth of the debate that has moved into most American homes. Corrective actions do not immediately arise. That is a factor of the common weal which is still formulating.

[chance1]

"I called it" ???

is this really a thread?

"I called it"

why don't we just all acknowledge your brilliance - faux as the sentiment would be

and call it a day

OMG

thanks for being you

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe its the Canadian filter of US news but gun control is the number topic in the USA right now.

On the news, at work, at the gym, at the bar, at family gatherings ... everywhere people are talking.

but in the finest restaurants ?

[HenryReardon]

John Lott is a liar, and the laughing stock of his academic peers for using fake data, and for creating a fake persona to give online credibility to his work.

[]

If you don't like that particular messenger, there's a well-known Harvard Study which reached similar conclusions: gun control doesn't help.

I've cited links to it in the recent past in other threads.

[medic1]

"I called it" ???

is this really a thread?

"I called it"

why don't we just all acknowledge your brilliance - faux as the sentiment would be

and call it a day

OMG

thanks for being you

- - - Updated - - -



but in the finest restaurants ?

Wow , rather a nasty and uncalled for response to the guys Thread , you may not agree with the man but to try and be so
condescending , you just surprised me because i usually find your Threads and posts to be both witty and well thought out and well written ..........................

[rareboy]

An entire hour of Morning Joe was devoted to gun control. What news are you watching?

That said i do not disagree that Americans want it now and if it is too hard then they get bored. In the majority opinion arena. However Our leaders, particularly our Governors need to keep the issue hot and they will. Just as Obama's coming executive actions will bring outcries and lawsuits that will last years.

This story will not die on the vine.

...actually posted before Morning Joe.

And I am willing to take my original statement back.

It seems as though in the last 24 hours, with McChrystal doing the rounds for his book and Cuomo's speech that the discussion is being re-ignited in the mainstream as well as the niche media.


This is good.

[rareboy]

Wow , rather a nasty and uncalled for response to the guys Thread , you may not agree with the man but to try and be so
condescending , you just surprised me because i usually find your Threads and posts to be both witty and well thought out and well written ..........................

Oh never mind. Chance and I have a very 'special' relationship.

You will probably have the same kind of relationship if you don't meet his high expectations.

[palbert]

I predicted that by the end of the first week of January...there would be little discussion about guns and gun control in the US once the 24/7 news machine had tired of the story.

Most of the country has moved on and left Sandyhook behind.

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_r...y=80&size=650x

Just have to figure out what to do about the building.

Biden has, however, started the sterile consultation process with Walmart and the NRA at the table. Walmart (country's largest gun seller) apparently wasn't going to show but were somehow 'persuaded'.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/...ry?id=18174779

Cuomo though, seems ready to take on the mantle of leadership on the issue:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...-fiery-speech/

Jon Stewart certainly delivered a solid punch on the subject...right down to having his guest Stanley McChrystal...the man with the plan for Afghanistan comment on the need to restrict the presence of assault weapons.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-epi...ley-mcchrystal



http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/01/09/the-d...ontrol-debate/

I do not find this informative, cute, or appropriate. A self-aggrandizing post from someone who usually eschews such.

If the OP is so involved in our political discourse he should move here where he will have a stake -- and voice -- in it.

This discussion about guns is not a parlor game. Not with every family fearing for the safety of their children as they go off to school.

An ill-considered thread.

Tell us your tragedies so we may gloat.

[bankside]

I agree that the dialogue will be fruitless because no one in office is willing to get rid of the stupid outdated immoral Second Amendment. Everyone is still paying lip service to it like its a noble thing. It's a strange voodoo cult that has built up around that piece of paper, and more children will be sacrificed to it.

[HenryReardon]

I agree that the dialogue will be fruitless because no one in office is willing to get rid of the stupid outdated immoral Second Amendment. it.

So, your're say that citizens having the right of self defense is immoral? That's a huge stretch, even for a bedwetter.

[Jack Springer]

Wow , rather a nasty and uncalled for response to the guys Thread , you may not agree with the man but to try and be so
condescending , you just surprised me because i usually find your Threads and posts to be both witty and well thought out and well written ..........................

The arrogance of the post was insulting. The topic of gun control is everywhere.

A more appropriate heading would be .... "I'm an idiot, I have no idea what's going on"

- - - Updated - - -

...actually posted before Morning Joe.

And I am willing to take my original statement back.

It seems as though in the last 24 hours, with McChrystal doing the rounds for his book and Cuomo's speech that the discussion is being re-ignited in the mainstream as well as the niche media.


This is good.

No one buys this weak attempt to save your thread.

[chance1]

Wow , rather a nasty and uncalled for response to the guys Thread , you may not agree with the man but to try and be so
condescending , you just surprised me because i usually find your Threads and posts to be both witty and well thought out and well written ..........................

i think "i called it" is the essence of rareboy .......... an i told u so moment ........ much of his posting suggests that sentiment ..... and here he titles a thread with it ....... the irony is thick

so i embrace my response - i own it - sorry you don't care for it

i appreciate the kudos as well

not to mention the content is bogus - cnn.com has a piece that biden will be presenting his recommendations to obama early next week

so the "i told u so" is lame ass

and he's not even accurate

[rareboy]

I also posted before this:

Report: 2 shot in Bakersfield HS shooting, suspect arrested at Taft High School

http://www.10news.com/home/homepage-...-school-011313

TAFT, Calif. - Officials have said that one student was shot at a Bakersfield-area high school.

The shooting happened at about 9 a.m. at Taft Union High School

The suspect was taken into custody at about 9:20 a.m. officials said.

ABC affiliate, 23ABC , reported receiving phone calls from people inside the school who were hiding in closets.

Initial reports indicated that two people were shot Thursday. However, it was later learned that one student was shot and flown to a hospital in Bakersfield. The second person denied medical treatment.

10News learned that this person was grazed by a bullet.

According to the Associated Press, the suspect is believed to be a student and that a shotgun was used in the attack.

this will certainly have everyone talking about it again.

[T-Rexx]

this will certainly have everyone talking about it again.

I doubt it.

Americans don't care too much when kids get murdered.

Otherwise, they'd do something about it.

[palbert]

@rareboy

Old saying; open mouth; don't speak; shut mouth.

[xbuzzerx]

Rareboy, you are right in calling that this issue will be long dead before a pertinent election cycle comes up for anyone to still be posterchilding this issue as a pressing one. Nothing taught me more that the American public has a short attention span than when George W. Bush won re-election after Hurricane Katrina--- with Hurricane Katrina not even so much as a blip on anyone's radar anymore.

To me even if everything else had been completely off the table, that event alone should have murdered a re-election to any public paying attention.

[JayHawk]

It is funny.. this thread. It exposes many things about many people posting in CEP.

I will leave it at that.

[andysayshi]

If you don't like that particular messenger, there's a well-known Harvard Study which reached similar conclusions: gun control doesn't help.

I've cited links to it in the recent past in other threads.

And I demonstrated to you in that recent thread that it ISN'T a Harvard study, it isn't peer reviewed, and it is full of flaws.

What else ya got?

[palbert]

It is funny.. this thread. It exposes many things about many people posting in CEP.

I will leave it at that.

Enlighten me.

[xbuzzerx]

It is funny.. this thread. It exposes many things about many people posting in CEP.

I will leave it at that.

Enlighten me too.

[HenryReardon]

that it ISN'T a Harvard study, it isn't peer reviewed, and it is full of flaws.

?

Really? That's news to me.

So it's a study that was published in Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy. BFD.
All you've got is the usual anti-gun hysteria.
Gun proponents have reason and logic on their side, something with which liberals are ill-equipped to deal.

[bankside]

So, your're say that citizens having the right of self defense is immoral?

No; the right to self defence is obvious and moral. The pretence of self-defence using an outmoded technology that is more likely to cause problems than solve them is where the immorality comes in. Self defence is best exercised through disarmament.

[HenryReardon]

No; the right to self defence is obvious and moral. The pretence of self-defence using an outmoded technology that is more likely to cause problems than solve them is where the immorality comes in. Self defence is best exercised through disarmament.

That's total BS, but if it makes you happy, continue to dream your foolish little liberal dreams.

[bankside]

Yep, a bunch of dead children, and still the slavish intellectually dishonest devotion to the idea that guns save lives; they don't.

[andysayshi]

Really? That's news to me.

So it's a study that was published in Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy. BFD.

A flawed study that was published in a right wing publication, yes. The data in it contains blatant inaccuracies.

All you've got is the usual anti-gun hysteria.
Gun proponents have reason and logic on their side, something with which liberals are ill-equipped to deal.

Since you love to quote Harvard so much, the simple truth is that, at the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, a division of the Harvard School Of Public Health, a measured analysis of all reputable gun statistics available showed that where there are more guns, there is more homicide.

You might like to look at this very recent video from Harvard School Of Public Health's "The Forum", a discussion between experts in Law, Public Health, Child Psychology and Government Policy, specifically about gun laws.

http://theforum.sph.harvard.edu/events/gun-violence

It's not hysteria, Henry. It's 85 dead Americans every day. It's 30,000 dead Americans every year. It's dead children in classrooms. There is something terribly, terribly wrong in the US, and many Americans want to see change.

[MisterMajestic]

Maybe its the Canadian filter of US news but gun control is the number topic in the USA right now.

On the news, at work, at the gym, at the bar, at family gatherings ... everywhere people are talking.

Rareboy & Bankside are 2 Canadian Jubers always on the Outside looking in & FOREVER Bashing & Running their mouths about our Country. The President met with MSNBC Producers and Commentators to make sure the discussions about Guns (and many other issues) would continue. MSNBC is keeping it front & center 7 days a week all day. American Jubers know the gun Control issue is still a Hot Topic because we Live here but Stone Throwers that don't live here are stuck on cluelessness...

And have you noticed how Rareboy & Bankside havent said ONE freaking word about the Shootings and Stabbing on New years day in Toronto? But they will WAIL on America till their hearts content....It's their usual tag-team event here...

I do not find this informative, cute, or appropriate. A self-aggrandizing post from someone who usually eschews such.

If the OP is so involved in our political discourse he should move here where he will have a stake -- and voice -- in it.

This discussion about guns is not a parlor game. Not with every family fearing for the safety of their children as they go off to school.

An ill-considered thread.

Tell us your tragedies so we may gloat.

Amen...But please don't encourage anyone to move back to The States when they say such negative things about our Country...

[bankside]

I don't think the children of Newtown care what their passports said. The problem is your constitution, and your president, congress, and three quarters of the states don't seem prepared to even talk about that. BTW, I have opinions about other countries too, for anyone who can keep up.

[xbuzzerx]

So is the problem actually with what they say or just the country they reside in? I don't get it.

[Jack Springer]

^^

There were shooting and stabbing in Toronto on NYD? ... and I thought Canada was a violence free zone.

“Mississauga and Toronto’s already (sic) first homicide of 2013. what has got into the world?!” one person tweeted Tuesday.

“I remember the old days when the first homicide would not occur for weeks,” another wrote glumly.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...-name-released

[frankfrank]

Americans don't care too much when kids get murdered.

Otherwise, they'd do something about it.

Americans don't care much when children are left to starve or die from lack of health care, either. The fetus had better not be harmed in any way, because it has MORE rights than children. Off topic, I know, but that's what the post made me think ot.

Rareboy & Bankside are 2 Canadian Jubers always on the Outside looking in &

And have you noticed how Rareboy & Bankside havent said ONE freaking word about the Shootings and Stabbing on New years day in Toronto? But they will WAIL on America till their hearts content....It's their usual tag-team event here...

Nothing wrong with having Canadians comment on policies such as this. After all, Canada borders this country for thousands of miles, and what happens here cannot be entirely kept out of their country; some effects from it will inevitably spillover.

I didn't hear about the thing(s) happening in Toronto.

I see validity on more than one side of the issue - including those who many of us call the "koo-koo, removed-from-reality crazy tin-foil-hat, the-sky-is-falling right wingers" who fear the fate if the "guns are taken away" and the government therefore entirely has its way. I can see this happening, as both political Parties have strong totalitarian elements in them (one SOMEWHAT more than the other - your interpretation of this may vary).

I do believe that it would be impossible for a disarmament to succeed, at all - unless accompanied by egregious and complete breakdowns of all privacy (i.e. the Government has the right to search you, and any or all parts of your property - owned or rented - at any time, for any reason, without your consent).

Nothing short of that would remove more than a small percentage of guns from those who already have them illegally.

If that, may God, Karma, chance (from JUB?), or something, BE ON OUR SIDE if the entire criminal world comes to believe that those who usually abide by the laws (such as farmers) will generally be unarmed. Home invasions would become easy. In the north New York suburbs and exurbs we even have a newspaper which recently published a map of which homes will be UNARMED if the legal guns are surrendered.

[xbuzzerx]

^^

There were shooting and stabbing in Toronto on NYD? ... and I thought Canada was a violence free zone.



http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...-name-released

It's only you presenting the false argument of "places with gun control have 0 violence."

Your inability to appreciate differences of degree is to blame here.

[JB3]

No; the right to self defence is obvious and moral. The pretence of self-defence using an outmoded technology that is more likely to cause problems than solve them is where the immorality comes in. Self defence is best exercised through disarmament.

Do you actually believe this nonsense?

[Rolyo85]

He should. It's proven to work in Europe. And by the way, China as well. They may have a ton of problems on all conceivable levels, but gun deaths really aren't among those.

Places with gun control have > 0 violence and < gun deaths than in America. That's an embarrassingly simple concept and my heart bleeds every time a right winger on here mangles it.

[palbert]

Where is rareboy tonight in this thwarted discussion?

[xbuzzerx]

Where is rareboy tonight in this thwarted discussion?

I'm summoning him. I'm burning two black candles flanking a plate of beluga caviar, sitting on a chess table in the middle of a large, imposing, otherwise unfurnished hall. Now I just need to sing the Canadian anthem after spilling the blood of an American.

[JB3]

He should. It's proven to work in Europe. And by the way, China as well. They may have a ton of problems on all conceivable levels, but gun deaths really aren't among those.

Places with gun control have > 0 violence and < gun deaths than in America. That's an embarrassingly simple concept and my heart bleeds every time a right winger on here mangles it.

Those places without gun crime have significantly higher levels of other crime and violence though. Its a trade-off. Its also complete nonsense to believe that disarmament will end violence.

[palbert]

I'm summoning him. I'm burning two black candles flanking a plate of beluga caviar, sitting on a chess table in the middle of a large, imposing, otherwise unfurnished hall. Now I just need to sing the Canadian anthem after spilling the blood of an American.

Did you overlook the Petrus?

[Rolyo85]

Those places without gun crime have significantly higher levels of other crime and violence though. Its a trade-off. Its also complete nonsense to believe that disarmament will end violence.

And so nobody has ever claimed that. It will end/significantly lower GUN violence though, which has by far the highest fatality rate. Sure, beatings will be more, and also stabbings and such, but all of those are much more difficult to do than pulling the trigger from a distance. The "trade off" you mention is absolutely welcome as far as I am concerned.

[maxpowr9]

^^

There were shooting and stabbing in Toronto on NYD? ... and I thought Canada was a violence free zone.



http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...-name-released

Where the fuck were you when the Canucks lost to the Bruins in 2011?