Traditional white america is afraid of the future

[mrbeebs]

shift in us birth rates

euroskepticism as a guise for racism

BRICS (brazil, russia, india, china) overtake G7 (US, UK, Canada, Germany, Japan, Italy, France) by 2027

First black president

the decline of christianity

crumbling infrastructure

china has more honors kids than we have kids

the collapse of contemporary american foreign policy

white people are afraid of living near blacks - UT Austin study

The "winter" of the western world

The coming burst of the student loan bubble

White people will be a minority

the disenfranchisement of minorities in 2012


So why do you think we have the Tea Party? Why do I go to class after election day, hearing redneck pieces of shit saying they want their country back? Why are people buying guns like candy now? Why do pundits on fox news say blacks and latinos just lean left because they "want free shit"? Why did that guy kill Treyvon Martin, and why did people try to play devil's advocate against his shooting, citing his social media updates and interest in guns/behavior in school? Why is it that right wingers only started caring about the debt after 2008? Why won't the media see the "austerity" push here for what it is - a guise for hoarding as much goodies as possible, before the shit hits the fan - before the minorities get too uppity? Why did Arizona pass that law?

Its impossible for me to see all these little issues as mutually exclusive; they're all facets of the larger picture - what Malcolm X once called "chickens coming home to roost" - the collapse of the American dream, the status quo, minority victimhood (not just racial minority either). Supporting Israel, "family values" conservatism, sub-prime lending to blacks, "getting our fiscal house in order" - bullshit for all the world to smell, that subconsiously re-inforces the supposed supremacy of "white" ideas.

[mrbeebs]

[palbert]

Your title is right on. The word is terrified.

[csb999]

well I think we have to accept two inarguable truths . One the average standard of living in the West is freakishly high ( perhaps unique in history ) even in the short term . Two generally the governments- governing classes are atypically respectful and unobtrusive uninvasive for the average person . It is not that life now is good enough but conditions generally have been so much worse not too long ago and not very far away .

[mrbeebs]

my point isn't that things are going to the shitter, its that the media (and voters) are playing devil's advocate for a right that's obviously culturally threatened... and they're doing it out of some misplaced desire for fairness.

[maxpowr9]

I find the irony in the GOP wanting to defund Planned Parenthood. Do they not realize that the original intention of the organization was eugenics in preserving the "white race" by giving easy access to birth control and abortions of minorities.

I'm not racist either. Just read up on the founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger.

[csb999]

The people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders. All you have to do is tell them that they are in danger of being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
Hermann Goering

[swerve]

I find the irony in the GOP wanting to defund Planned Parenthood. Do they not realize that the original intention of the organization was eugenics in preserving the "white race" by giving easy access to birth control and abortions of minorities.

I'm not racist either. Just read up on the founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger.

Is that REALLY true???

[-Kane-]

Those poor white people. They just can't seem to get a break these days.

1. Highest percentage of savings and net worth over all other racial groups.
2. Enjoy Longest life span
3. Easier access to ivy league schools.
4. Pay Lower insurance rates (thanks to redlining by insurance companies)
5. They get to work in a job where people of color make less for doing comparable work.
6. White/Euro standards of beauty still dominates in almost every country on the planet. (even in South America. smh)

Shall I continue to count the ways?

I say they have nothing to fear but fear itself. As long as White Privilege is the norm in most societies, they will dominate even as an minority.. ..South Africa anyone?

Great Day!

[mrbeebs]

not for long... *sips bourbon*

[8tomtoms8]

Those poor white people. They just can't seem to get a break these days.

1. Highest percentage of savings and net worth over all other racial groups.
2. Enjoy Longest life span
3. Easier access to ivy league schools.
4. Pay Lower insurance rates (thanks to redlining by insurance companies)
5. They get to work in a job where people of color make less for doing comparable work.
6. White/Euro standards of beauty still dominates in almost every country on the planet. (even in South America. smh)

Shall I continue to count the ways?

I say they have nothing to fear but fear itself. As long as White Privilege is the norm in most societies, they will dominate even as an minority.. ..South Africa anyone?

Great Day!

Most of the things you quoted are a result of personal choices.
My dad always said "It's not how much money you make, it's what you do w/ it" How one spends or saves his money is his decision.
Life span is mostly related to personal choices one makes w/ regard to diet, exercise, lifestyle choices(i.e. drugs, booze, smoking, etc.
Most Ivy league schools I'm familiar w/ have a LARGE percentage of Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Africans, etc. Ivy leagues base their admissions more on achievement tests than any other factor by far.
Insurance rates for the most part are based on history of past claims of a particular demographic and one's personal record. You have no control over past claims of others but you can control what you do.
Being a small business owner myself, I base what a pay someone on how well they perform and the relationship of trust we have formed. I couldn't care less what race they are.
I can't speak to beauty standards. Advertisers hire models who sell the most product for them. I think it really depends what demographic the manufacturer is trying to reach.
Sadly, race is just like the size of your dick. You're stuck with it. You can spend your life sitting around bitching and wishing it was bigger or you can jump out there and make the most of what you got.

[xbuzzerx]

Those poor white people. They just can't seem to get a break these days.

1. Highest percentage of savings and net worth over all other racial groups.
2. Enjoy Longest life span
3. Easier access to ivy league schools.
4. Pay Lower insurance rates (thanks to redlining by insurance companies)
5. They get to work in a job where people of color make less for doing comparable work.
6. White/Euro standards of beauty still dominates in almost every country on the planet. (even in South America. smh)

Shall I continue to count the ways?

I say they have nothing to fear but fear itself. As long as White Privilege is the norm in most societies, they will dominate even as an minority.. ..South Africa anyone?

Great Day!

Because of all of the things you listed, I think the constant fearfulness from core white America is an unconscious recognition that when you sit that high on the totem progress probably can't take you anywhere but a little down.

[eastofeden]

The GOP in particular has been exploiting people's inner racism because most people don't own it or aren't even aware of it. If you don't own your shit...someone else can...and you can easily be exploited and controlled. They use buzzwords and phrases such as "Those people" or "Take America Back"... They have been steadily pitting people against each other using all the crap we don't own...fear tops the list and is the thing most easily exploited....and fear and racism are always bedfellows.

[genthree]

Because they have lots to legitimately fear. You see India, China, Indonesia, the Arabs to name a few, have sent all their smart young, keen to learn, kids to the best institutions in the first World countries.
In these places they learn all the skills which saw all the first World countries develop, advance and accumulate so much wealth.
There was a time when the sun never set on the British Empire, well,it certainly has now and America is experiencing a similar feeling.

[White Eagle]

That's an interesting "Did you know? 3.0" and there's a 4.0 at the end of it. Thanks.
And just glad I'm red.

[Telstra]

I don't respect young chubby face like this debating ....

[Zu-Mendel]

As I'm so fond of telling my virulently homophobic and racist uncle whenever he goes off on one of his rants,"I don't mind calling him Papi."

[palemale]

Is that REALLY true???

No, it is not true. The right wing, anti-abortion nuts love to accuse Margaret Sanger of being a racist and motivated by a desire to preserve the white race. That's a lie. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a recipient of Planned Parenthood's first Margaret Sanger Award. This is what he had to say about her in accepting the award:

There is a striking kinship between our movement and Margaret Sanger's early efforts. She, like we, saw the horrifying conditions of ghetto life. Like we, she knew that all of society is poisoned by cancerous slums. Like we, she was a direct actionist — a nonviolent resister. She was willing to accept scorn and abuse until the truth she saw was revealed to the millions. At the turn of the century she went into the slums and set up a birth control clinic, and for this deed she went to jail because she was violating an unjust law. Yet the years have justified her actions. She launched a movement which is obeying a higher law to preserve human life under humane conditions. Margaret Sanger had to commit what was then called a crime in order to enrich humanity, and today we honor her courage and vision; for without them there would have been no beginning. Our sure beginning in the struggle for equality by nonviolent direct action may not have been so resolute without the tradition established by Margaret Sanger and people like her. Negroes have no mere academic nor ordinary interest in family planning. They have a special and urgent concern.

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/abo...ng-jr-4728.htm

[White Eagle]

I don't respect young chubby face like this debating ....

Yeah, Matthew Heimbach, ancestors came from Ireland. Really?

[Telstra]

Yeah, Matthew Heimbach, ancestors came from Ireland. Really?

He is going to turn into a fat ugly politician like many of them

[HoodedRat]

The notion of 'White America' was never going to be anything more than brief transient concept.

A mere few hundred years of 'supremacy' after wiping out the indiginous dark-skinned natives is nothing really in the cosmic scheme of things.

[EastMed]

As far as I'm aware, 40% of white voters supported Mr Obama in the recent election.

But there is a very angry and disaffected white constituency. Ha-Joon Chang in a recent article offered the following description:

but the debt ceiling will keep coming back to haunt the country because it is the best weapon with which the extremists in the Republican party can advance their anti-state ideology. This ideology has such a hold on American politics because it taps into the anxiety of the majority of the white population. Being squeezed from the top by the greedy corporate elite and from the bottom by new immigrants, they seek solace in an ideology that harks back to the lost golden age of (idealised) 18th-century America, made up of self-defending (with guns), free-contracting (white) individuals who are independent of the central government. Unless mainstream American politicians can offer these people an alternative vision, backed up by more secure jobs and a better welfare system, they will keep voting for the extremists.

I don't know if Mr Chang is correct in all respects, but I suspect there is more than a grain of truth in it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...2013-no-picnic

[JustMe5]

6. White/Euro standards of beauty still dominates in almost every country on the planet. (even in South America. smh)

What the heck is that supposed to mean? You do realize that "Hispanic" is merely an ethnicity, and that there are lots of white hispanics?

[JustMe5]

Most of the things you quoted are a result of personal choices.
My dad always said "It's not how much money you make, it's what you do w/ it" How one spends or saves his money is his decision.
Life span is mostly related to personal choices one makes w/ regard to diet, exercise, lifestyle choices(i.e. drugs, booze, smoking, etc.
Most Ivy league schools I'm familiar w/ have a LARGE percentage of Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Africans, etc. Ivy leagues base their admissions more on achievement tests than any other factor by far.
Insurance rates for the most part are based on history of past claims of a particular demographic and one's personal record. You have no control over past claims of others but you can control what you do.
Being a small business owner myself, I base what a pay someone on how well they perform and the relationship of trust we have formed. I couldn't care less what race they are.
I can't speak to beauty standards. Advertisers hire models who sell the most product for them. I think it really depends what demographic the manufacturer is trying to reach.
Sadly, race is just like the size of your dick. You're stuck with it. You can spend your life sitting around bitching and wishing it was bigger or you can jump out there and make the most of what you got.

I fully agree. I'm surprised to not see forum members take offense to some of the things in this thread, as most of its content reeks of resentment. And why did the poster even mention Ivy League schools? Both the Obamas attended Ivy League schools. Their being black wasn't a deterrent.

[Telstra]

.
about economics, its about growth and growth and growth ... where will it end? i don't get it.

[xbuzzerx]

Yeah, Matthew Heimbach, ancestors came from Ireland. Really?

Complete side note, in demographics at the time I studied it, 5x more Americans claim Irish ancestry in self-reporting than could possibly have had Irish ancestors. Because unlike their initial reputation as newly arrived immigrants, there is now a "cool" element to being Irish. (Drink on St. Paddy's Day and being good at fighting I Guess?)

What the heck is that supposed to mean? You do realize that "Hispanic" is merely an ethnicity, and that there are lots of white hispanics?

You are correct, but I think possibly what he meant is that Latin America is so blended racially for the most part that you might think it would be a little more free of a monoracially dominated beauty standard. That's how I took it anyway, I could be wrong.

[-Kane-]

And why did the poster even mention Ivy League schools? Both the Obamas attended Ivy League schools. Their being black wasn't a deterrent.

I mentioned Ivy Leagued Schools because most Whites in America enjoy the long entrenched "Legacy Privilege" that elite higher learning institutions employ when considering candidates. Because Blacks were barred from most private and public schools for nearly half of the 20th century, I think you can see why the use of Legacy during college admissions can be a detriment to people of color.

[Jack Springer]

No, it is not true. The right wing, anti-abortion nuts love to accuse Margaret Sanger of being a racist and motivated by a desire to preserve the white race. That's a lie. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a recipient of Planned Parenthood's first Margaret Sanger Award. This is what he had to say about her in accepting the award:

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/abo...ng-jr-4728.htm

Lots of reasons not to make the saint of the liberal religion.

Sanger believed that lighter-skinned races were superior to darker-skinned races, but would not tolerate bigotry among her staff, nor any refusal to work within interracial projects
Source Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Race

As part of her efforts to promote birth control, Sanger found common cause with proponents of eugenics, believing that they both sought to "assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit."
Source Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Eugenics

Sanger was opposed to abortions, both because they were dangerous for the mother in the early 20th century and because she believed that life should not be terminated after conception.
Source Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Abortion

Sanger wrote that masturbation was dangerous. She stated "In my personal experience as a trained nurse while attending persons afflicted with various and often revolting diseases, no matter what their ailments, I never found any one so repulsive as the chronic masturbator.It would not be difficult to fill page upon page of heart-rending confessions made by young girls, whose lives were blighted by this pernicious habit, always begun so innocently."
Source Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Sexuality

[FuryOfFirestorm]

I don't know why I bother trying to explain things to you, dear Springer, but i'll try anyway.

Lots of reasons not to make the saint of the liberal religion.

Nobody is holdong her up as a "saint", Jack. Just because someone is looked up to does not make them infallible.

Secondly, providing safe and affordable resources to pregnant women is not a "liberal" or "conservative" issue, it's a "human" issue. Not everything is about politics.

Now onto the points you posted:

Sanger believed that lighter-skinned races were superior to darker-skinned races, but would not tolerate bigotry among her staff, nor any refusal to work within interracial projects

Seems funny that someone with alleged racist attitudes had no problem working alongside non-white people and providing needed services to the African-American community. It's possible she was misconstrued or her words taken out of context (ie using Nietzsche's work to promote Nazism). Regardless of her actual views, it does not diminish the good that Planned Parenthood provides.

"As part of her efforts to promote birth control, Sanger found common cause with proponents of eugenics, believing that they both sought to "assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit."

Isn't screening for birth defects (which Planned Parenthood provides) "eliminating the unfit"? Sanger wasn't advocating murder like the Nazis were. The idea of sterilizing the "feeble-minded" is quite extreme, but as I stated earlier, no one is holding her up to be a saint, nor does it nullify the need for Planned Parenthood.

Sanger was opposed to abortions, both because they were dangerous for the mother in the early 20th century and because she believed that life should not be terminated after conception.

She was opposed to abortions, but she still provided them anyway? So what? I'm also against abortion (not for religious reasons, but because I think abortion should be a last resort or in extreme cases like rape), but it's not my place to interfere with a woman's right to do with her body as she sees fit.

Sanger wrote that masturbation was dangerous. She stated "In my personal experience as a trained nurse while attending persons afflicted with various and often revolting diseases, no matter what their ailments, I never found any one so repulsive as the chronic masturbator. It would not be difficult to fill page upon page of heart-rending confessions made by young girls, whose lives were blighted by this pernicious habit, always begun so innocently.

The key word in the sentence above is "chronic". Sanger wasn't decrying masturbation - she was pointing out that excessive wanking is terrible problem, much like doing too much of anything. For example, drinking two glasses of wine a day isn't bad, but drinking two bottles of wine a day is. Jerking off once or twice a day isn't a problem: doing it until you get sore genitals is.

There you go Jack. Now you're free to retort with whatever Talking Points that Sean Hannity issued this week. Have fun!

[xbuzzerx]

Oh Jack you're kidding me. A white woman born in 1879 had some ideas that were a product of her times and weren't up to 2012 snuff? Every Greek philosopher thought women were inferior to men too, since that will evidently shock you.

P.S. the Founding Fathers and the writers of the Constitution acknowledged non-personhood for women, blacks and non-landowning whites.

[opinterph]

… when you sit that high on the totem[,] progress probably can't take you anywhere but a little down.

There is an abundance of evidence to suggest that higher vertical positioning of symbols inscribed on Native American totem poles does not represent a greater relative hierarchical importance.

[xbuzzerx]

There is an abundance of evidence to suggest that higher vertical positioning of symbols inscribed on Native American totem poles does not represent a greater relative hierarchical importance.

And also there's very good proof that when the tide goes up all boats rise.

[xbuzzerx]

Do Ivy League schools have affirmative action?

Yup. They most certainly do. Having a family member who previously graduated is perhaps the single strongest factor for entry- and for the great majority of applicants, financial or scholastic qualification to attend alone cannot get them in without a legacy bump. In effect, affirmative action geared towards preferential placement of white people of more privileged backgrounds.

[opinterph]

And also there's very good proof that when the tide goes up all boats rise.

My Native American ancestors were woodland dwellers. The tide did not reach their habitat.

[Jack Springer]

There you go Jack. Now you're free to retort with whatever Talking Points that Sean Hannity issued this week. Have fun!

You'll have to point me to the local station that carries him -- I haven't listened to Sean Hannity for years.

... sounds like you might be a chronic listener though.

[CoolBlue71]

In 2008, Barack Obama won the presidency while receiving 43 percent national support from whites.

From his 28 states, plus Nebraska's 2nd Congressional District [Omaha] and District of Columbia, I found that more than 230 of his 365 electoral votes came from states in which Obama won the white vote. He flipped and won Iowa immediately in part because he carried whites. And that's a state with more whites per capita. He also won the pickup with Colorado thanks, in part, to having carried whites.

The numbers are skewed so much due to states in the Old Confederacy south. In 2008, Obama's support in Louisiana with whites were only 14 percent. (This state voted for Bill Clinton in both his 1992 and 1996 elections. It was in the column for Jimmy Carter in 1976 and, before that, in 1960 for John Kennedy.) President Obama was at just 10 percent in Alabama, which today is just about the last state which would carry for a Democrat (even if the nation experienced a 40-state landslide in a general presidential election).

In 2012, there were 19 states which didn't get polled. And that bothers me, due to failure to fully recognize and reconcile the numbers. Particularly essential with Georgia, a state in transition where Democrats aren't needing as high a bar of whites' support for carriage of the state. (That was being revealed after 2008, after John McCain held the state by a percentage margin of R+5.20. George W. Bush, in 2004, won Ga. by R+16.60. In 2012, Mitt Romney carried Ga. by about 9 points.)

"Traditional White America" is mainly with the states from the Old Confederacy. But get this: There are eleven [11] states of the Old Confederacy: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia. In the past 57 U.S. presidential elections, including 2012, there were ten [10] winning candidacies without carriage of a single state from the Old Confederacy: John Quincy Adams (1824), Abraham Lincoln (1860 and, in the year of secession, 1864), James Garfield (1880), Benjamin Harrison (1888), William McKinley (1896 and 1900), Teddy Roosevelt (1904), William Howard Taft (1908), and Calvin Coolidge (1924).

Contrast that the Rust Belt, which includes my home state of Michigan. There are nine states of the Rust Belt. They are: Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Wisconsin. And the record shows that there has not been one [1] presidential election won where the prevailing candidate carried zero [0] of these Rust Belt states.

Way the map shakes out nowadays is a winner will have carried both of the two reigning bellwether states from both categories: Florida, from the Old Confederacy; Ohio, from the Rust Belt. So, it seems to me that whites who have a problem with a Changing America, which is code for racism but also hatred that Democrats have the electoral advantage, will likely continue to stew in their own juices.

On MSNBC's 2012 election-night coverage, McCain campaign adviser Steve Schmidt greatly summed it up: In Election 1988, George Bush nabbed 60 percent nationally of whites' support. He won 40 states and 426 electoral votes. In 2012, Mitt Romney nabbed same-level support of 60 percent whites. He won 24 states and 206 electoral votes.

That has those who aren't privileged feeling more optimistic. And, even though I am white, I feel it with them.

[xbuzzerx]

That has those who aren't privileged feeling more optimistic. And, even though I am white, I feel it with them.

I had a lot of friends who are relatively apathetic about politics, but knew that I was very into politics, comment to me shortly after the 2008 election that they still couldn't help but feel it too when they saw so many black Americans on TV in tears and bawling that Obama won. It meant so much historically to our country.

[Kulindahr]

Because of all of the things you listed, I think the constant fearfulness from core white America is an unconscious recognition that when you sit that high on the totem progress probably can't take you anywhere but a little down.

As I'm so fond of telling my virulently homophobic and racist uncle whenever he goes off on one of his rants,"I don't mind calling him Papi."

A friend here who's virally racist makes comments sometimes, and I answer them with things like, "Did you hear, more inter-color marriages took place last year than ever? That's so awesome!"

What he really hates is I refuse to use the word "race", except when it's on my tee that says "One Planet: the planet Earth / One race: the Human Race".

[xbuzzerx]

A friend here who's virally racist makes comments sometimes, and I answer them with things like, "Did you hear, more inter-color marriages took place last year than ever? That's so awesome!"

What he really hates is I refuse to use the word "race", except when it's on my tee that says "One Planet: the planet Earth / One race: the Human Race".

I get you. I use race in the conventional manner only because it's impossible to discuss social issues or politics in the U.S. without using the same definition of it as everyone else, but race is socially constructed and always was. It's not real and certainly not along the skin tone lines people think herald some kind of hard genetic groupings.

[-Kane-]

In 2008, Barack Obama won the presidency while receiving 43 percent national support from whites.

From his 28 states, plus Nebraska's 2nd Congressional District [Omaha] and District of Columbia, I found that more than 230 of his 365 electoral votes came from states in which Obama won the white vote. He flipped and won Iowa immediately in part because he carried whites. And that's a state with more whites per capita. He also won the pickup with Colorado thanks, in part, to having carried whites.

The numbers are skewed so much due to states in the Old Confederacy south. In 2008, Obama's support in Louisiana with whites were only 14 percent. (This state voted for Bill Clinton in both his 1992 and 1996 elections. It was in the column for Jimmy Carter in 1976 and, before that, in 1960 for John Kennedy.) President Obama was at just 10 percent in Alabama, which today is just about the last state which would carry for a Democrat (even if the nation experienced a 40-state landslide in a general presidential election).

In 2012, there were 19 states which didn't get polled. And that bothers me, due to failure to fully recognize and reconcile the numbers. Particularly essential with Georgia, a state in transition where Democrats aren't needing as high a bar of whites' support for carriage of the state. (That was being revealed after 2008, after John McCain held the state by a percentage margin of R+5.20. George W. Bush, in 2004, won Ga. by R+16.60. In 2012, Mitt Romney carried Ga. by about 9 points.)

"Traditional White America" is mainly with the states from the Old Confederacy. But get this: There are eleven [11] states of the Old Confederacy: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia. In the past 57 U.S. presidential elections, including 2012, there were ten [10] winning candidacies without carriage of a single state from the Old Confederacy: John Quincy Adams (1824), Abraham Lincoln (1860 and, in the year of secession, 1864), James Garfield (1880), Benjamin Harrison (1888), William McKinley (1896 and 1900), Teddy Roosevelt (1904), William Howard Taft (1908), and Calvin Coolidge (1924).

Contrast that the Rust Belt, which includes my home state of Michigan. There are nine states of the Rust Belt. They are: Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Wisconsin. And the record shows that there has not been one [1] presidential election won where the prevailing candidate carried zero [0] of these Rust Belt states.

Way the map shakes out nowadays is a winner will have carried both of the two reigning bellwether states from both categories: Florida, from the Old Confederacy; Ohio, from the Rust Belt. So, it seems to me that whites who have a problem with a Changing America, which is code for racism but also hatred that Democrats have the electoral advantage, will likely continue to stew in their own juices.

On MSNBC's 2012 election-night coverage, McCain campaign adviser Steve Schmidt greatly summed it up: In Election 1988, George Bush nabbed 60 percent nationally of whites' support. He won 40 states and 426 electoral votes. In 2012, Mitt Romney nabbed same-level support of 60 percent whites. He won 24 states and 206 electoral votes.

That has those who aren't privileged feeling more optimistic. And, even though I am white, I feel it with them.

This was very insightful and informative.

[Kulindahr]

Is that REALLY true???

It's infinitely debatable. She said things that are easily taken either way, and she was supported by racist eugenicists, but from her actions alone it doesn't seem so.

[Kulindahr]

Because of all of the things you listed, I think the constant fearfulness from core white America is an unconscious recognition that when you sit that high on the totem progress probably can't take you anywhere but a little down.

There's one dynamic here that is rarely mentioned and hidden nicely by averages: the whites in the US these days are in effectively the same situation as whites in the South just before the Civil War. Among them there is great wealth, many are well-to-do, but a very large number are no better off than the "lesser" others (in fact in the rural South there were whites who were worse off than the slaves of their wealthy neighbors). Yet when it comes to standing up for white privileges, it is that bottom level from which the loudest cries come (encouraged, of course, by a few from above them).

[xbuzzerx]

There's one dynamic here that is rarely mentioned and hidden nicely by averages: the whites in the US these days are in effectively the same situation as whites in the South just before the Civil War. Among them there is great wealth, many are well-to-do, but a very large number are no better off than the "lesser" others (in fact in the rural South there were whites who were worse off than the slaves of their wealthy neighbors). Yet when it comes to standing up for white privileges, it is that bottom level from which the loudest cries come (encouraged, of course, by a few from above them).

Those are always the people who feel the most threatened because their 'privilege' is the thinnest. Rich people don't really care that much what the rank and file think or say because they're going to continue going to elite academies and having the best healthcare and all but guaranteed acccess to continuing high incomes and wealth for their kids. The poor white people who see any sort of inherent social benefit of being white vanishing are going to be the most immediately threatened and respond the most virulently.

Likewise you had the Irish in the western U.S. climb from a scarcely considered white undesirable minority group to an accepted part of the mainstream by stepping on Chinese immigrants and leading the call for the exclusion act to protect white interests, and in that way ingratiated their place in the privileged mainstream.

[Kulindahr]

Yeah, Matthew Heimbach, ancestors came from Ireland. Really?

Possible. I went to school with a guy with the last name of Sanchez, who was half German and a quarter Swiss german -- he just got his name from the one grandfather. With people marrying outside their "country of origin" heritage, last names no longer tell us much.

[Kulindahr]

There is an abundance of evidence to suggest that higher vertical positioning of symbols inscribed on Native American totem poles does not represent a greater relative hierarchical importance.

In certain circumstances, according to local Natives, a higher position can indicate greater need, and the figure on the bottom is the most important, being the foundation.

[Kulindahr]

I get you. I use race in the conventional manner only because it's impossible to discuss social issues or politics in the U.S. without using the same definition of it as everyone else, but race is socially constructed and always was. It's not real and certainly not along the skin tone lines people think herald some kind of hard genetic groupings.

I drive people crazy by using proper biological language and referring to "varieties".

One guy protested the term made him think of apples. I told him "Good!"

[Kulindahr]

Those are always the people who feel the most threatened because their 'privilege' is the thinnest. Rich people don't really care that much what the rank and file think or say because they're going to continue going to elite academies and having the best healthcare and all but guaranteed acccess to continuing high incomes and wealth for their kids. The poor white people who see any sort of inherent social benefit of being white vanishing are going to be the most immediately threatened and respond the most virulently.

Likewise you had the Irish in the western U.S. climb from a scarcely considered white undesirable minority group to an accepted part of the mainstream by stepping on Chinese immigrants and leading the call for the exclusion act to protect white interests, and in that way ingratiated their place in the privileged mainstream.

Ah, yes -- making common cause against an enemy is the best way to gain entry to the group with which that common cause is made.

Even if you have to invent the enemy.

[xbuzzerx]

I drive people crazy by using proper biological language and referring to "varieties".

One guy protested the term made him think of apples. I told him "Good!"

Are you a Grannie Smith?

[xbuzzerx]

Ah, yes -- making common cause against an enemy is the best way to gain entry to the group with which that common cause is made.

Even if you have to invent the enemy.

"It's good that the door was open for us, and just to prove how good we are, we'll help you close that door now so bad people don't get in!"

[palbert]

There is an abundance of evidence to suggest that higher vertical positioning of symbols inscribed on Native American totem poles does not represent a greater relative hierarchical importance.

Heavens! Don't think I'm on any totem pole. Can we register on-line?