4 firefighters shot, 2 dead, after responding to blaze

[White Eagle]

Yeah, gun regulations are not needed. Everything is hunky dory.
This is the most horrible thing, after Newtown, I have seen this year. Firefighter are there first to help. 9/11 didn't register with whoever did this.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...-to-blaze?lite

4 firefighters shot, 2 dead, after responding to blaze
By Jason White, NBC News

Four firefighters were shot and two were killed after responding to a large fire in Webster, N.Y., early Monday.

When firefighters arrived on the scene of the blaze around 6 a.m. ET in the Rochester suburb, they were fired upon by one or more shooters, police said.

Firefighters were forced to flee by the gunfire. Two of the firefighters are being treated at a local hospital for their wounds.

Police say there is no longer an "active shooting" situation, and firefighters have resumed battling the blaze.

[Rolyo85]

Ok, for fuck's sake!

[palbert]

Right, some form of gun or clip regulation is unnecessary! Would the NRA now call for guards everywhere a fire might break out?

[zoltanspawn]

It's hard not to feel hopeless over the profound idiocy of the situation.

[T-Rexx]

If those firefighters had been armed with assault weapons going into that fire, they could have taken out that shooter before the police arrived.

Also, we need to post an armed guard on every fire truck. These guards could come from an extraordinary corps of patriotic, trained, qualified citizens. Congress needs to approve funds for this immediately.

[chance1]

my thoughts go out to the families

yours should too

groundhog day moment

[Rolyo85]

my thoughts go out to the families

yours should too

groundhog day moment

Don't you ever get tired of being that sanctimonious?

[scream4ever]

my thoughts go out to the families

yours should too

groundhog day moment

How about we instead prevent this from happening again so we don't have to have our thoughts go out to the families to begin with.

[Kulindahr]

This sort of thing is on the border between crime and terrorism. Sadly, as Israel has learned, you can't stop terrorism, you can only live with it.

Do we know if the house was torched to get the firefighters there?

[72-Jay]

Sad..just sad
Someone's gotta be really f**ked in the head to shoot up a firetruck
I sure they'll the fire was arson once its investigated...

[chance1]

Don't you ever get tired of being that sanctimonious?

Political bullshit moment

Thread for every shooting ?

With guns r bad attached?

Get a grip

[Rolyo85]

It's an inflamed issue right now. It's not like YOU weren't posting "Obama is evil" topics every few hours before the elections. You have no moral high ground to scold anyone from. We each have our hot buttons.

[genthree]

I don't think this is sad at all.
In a country where evey man and his dog has got a gun , what do you expect.
Until you develop the "will" to face up to this reality it is going to be business as usual.
All your public first responders should just go on strike, let the bloody place burn, let people die at accident scenes and let everyone go crazy with their fucking guns and in the end sanity may win.
All of us viewing America from the outside are just gobsmacked at how dumb all this is.
Merry Christmas , all.....................................

[rareboy]

Political bullshit moment

Thread for every shooting ?

With guns r bad attached?

Get a grip

There's nothing political about this. And if you find it disturbing to have a new thread for every shooting....well, I guess you should be disturbed. Because it is disturbing. And if it comes attached with a commentary on the increasingly seemingly out of control use of guns...well, maybe that comes as part of the territory. And after the offensive and arrogant performance by the NRA after Sandyhook, the derision of a similar likely 'solution' to be posed by LaPierre for all the first responders is to be expected as well.

[palbert]

Apparently the gun/home-owner set a trap and lay in wait:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...163105823.html

William H. Spengler, Jr., 62, apparently started a 5:35 a.m. fire at his home on Lake Road and then waited with an armament of weapons for first responders to arrive, Webster N.Y. Police Chief Gerald Pickering said at an afternoon news conference.

[Kulindahr]

Political bullshit moment

Thread for every shooting ?

With guns r bad attached?

Get a grip

Ah, the pretense of ignorance!

If someone were making a "thread for every shooting", most of the threads on the first page would be about new shootings.

This is about a bizzare and barbaric shooting. If this one doesn't shock you and piss you off, I despair of your humanity.

[Kulindahr]

There's nothing political about this. And if you find it disturbing to have a new thread for every shooting....well, I guess you should be disturbed. Because it is disturbing. And if it comes attached with a commentary on the increasingly seemingly out of control use of guns...well, maybe that comes as part of the territory. And after the offensive and arrogant performance by the NRA after Sandyhook, the derision of a similar likely 'solution' to be posed by LaPierre for all the first responders is to be expected as well.

Please don't say "by the NRA": there are a lot of us trying to figure out how to make LaPierre fall and to stop the succession of presidents who are under his thumb, interested in politics more than they are in their own members.

There was an attempted revolt about a decade ago, but it failed because it was organized by and around some of the wealthier members, whose country-club attitude didn't exactly draw support.

I'm going to look into what it takes to get a resolution put before the membership, and go for one limiting the compensation of NRA executives to that of the President and Vice President of the United States, as a start.

[Kulindahr]

home owner, not gun owner.

he obtained the gun illegally... clearly an example of how gun regulations would stop crime.

No, but in this instance a serious mental-health system would have. Someone who beat a neighbor to death with a hammer should have been released from prison only into a mental health facility.

Though we need civilized mental health facilities....

[Kulindahr]

home owner, not gun owner.

he obtained the gun illegally... clearly an example of how gun regulations would stop crime.

I can think of a regulation that would help: except for one's personal sidearm, when worn, and one self-defense weapon in the household, all firearms must be secured behind locks.

There would still be firearms to steal, but it would certainly limit the number, and it wouldn't violate the Heller ruling.

[maxpowr9]

This goes right back to giving felons access to guns regardless of their crimes. A felon should be "banned" for life from possessing a firearm.

[T-Rexx]

my thoughts go out to the families

yours should too

groundhog day moment

None other than Gary Hall, Dean of the National Cathedral in Washington, has called out your fake grieving as bullshit, chance.

"I, for one, can't listen to another conversation where someone says 'Let's talk about gun control' and people say 'Well, it's too soon to talk about gun control. Let's grieve.' And then, there's a few days of grieving and then the narrrative gets changed."

- Gary Hall (Dean, National Cathedral, Washington, D.C.)

http://www.npr.org/2012/12/16/167401...olence-but-how

You want to remain forever in mourning, so that we can never discuss the problem of gun violence in America. How many people must die before you (and your political cronies) can bring yourselves to the discussion?

[Kulindahr]

This goes right back to giving felons access to guns regardless of their crimes. A felon should be "banned" for life from possessing a firearm.

They are -- doesn't matter if your felony was moving funds from one place to another using a computer to embezzle, or held a bag for a friend that you later found out had drugs in smaller packages (makes you a "distributor). There's an appeal process, but if there was any kind of violence involved in someone's felony, the judge isn't even going to schedule a hearing, he's just going to throw it out.

[Kulindahr]

None other than Gary Hall, Dean of the National Cathedral in Washington, has called out your fake grieving as bullshit, chance.




You want to remain forever in mourning, so that we can never discuss the problem of gun violence in America. How many people must die before you (and your political cronies) can bring yourselves to the discussion?

I find it even more offensive that chance and others think their sort of mourning is the only acceptable form and want the rest of us to conform. As the hero in a saga I once read in an English lit class said (paraphrase) "I will mourn her by tracking down her slayer".

[Just_Believe18]

Clearly, we must arm all firefighters because you never know when some bad guy with a gun is going to start shooting at them. Or, at the very least, this could have been prevented with a well-armed TEACHER.

[Rolyo85]

Clearly, we must arm all firefighters because you never know when some bad guy with a gun is going to start shooting at them. Or, at the very least, this could have been prevented with a well-armed TEACHER.

[Kulindahr]

At this point in this thread, I must concede that HR is right: liberals have abandoned reason and are proceeding on emotion.

[Corny]

Armed guards at firetrucks? No, I demand armed guards at every fire!

[White Eagle]

I feel pretty certain that at 1 firefighter in each station knows how to use a gun, and probably has a carry permit. I say let them be armed at each call.
My 2nd lover was a firefighter, our feelings changed after 6 years. I knew quite a few firefighters. They all are are due the respect of the entire nation.

[Rolyo85]

At this point in this thread, I must concede that HR is right: liberals have abandoned reason and are proceeding on emotion.

Welcome to HR's group. Where Benvolio and Jack thread. May you be very happy with those guys.

[rareboy]

Please don't say "by the NRA": there are a lot of us trying to figure out how to make LaPierre fall and to stop the succession of presidents who are under his thumb, interested in politics more than they are in their own members.

There was an attempted revolt about a decade ago, but it failed because it was organized by and around some of the wealthier members, whose country-club attitude didn't exactly draw support.

I'm going to look into what it takes to get a resolution put before the membership, and go for one limiting the compensation of NRA executives to that of the President and Vice President of the United States, as a start.

You know what?

I apologize.

You are right. LaPierre and the folks at the top of the NRA are actually the one's who are leading the tone deaf barrage against conceding that a more balanced approach that takes into account the rights of responsible gun ownership and use and the need to reduce the arsenals of military grade weaponry in the american household.

[White Eagle]

There's nothing political about this. And if you find it disturbing to have a new thread for every shooting....well, I guess you should be disturbed. Because it is disturbing. And if it comes attached with a commentary on the increasingly seemingly out of control use of guns...well, maybe that comes as part of the territory. And after the offensive and arrogant performance by the NRA after Sandyhook, the derision of a similar likely 'solution' to be posed by LaPierre for all the first responders is to be expected as well.

This quadrupled!

[White Eagle]

Oh, I must apologize since I cited rareboy's post.

[Kulindahr]

I feel pretty certain that at 1 firefighter in each station knows how to use a gun, and probably has a carry permit. I say let them be armed at each call.
My 2nd lover was a firefighter, our feelings changed after 6 years. I knew quite a few firefighters. They all are are due the respect of the entire nation.

Or just use that fire axe...




Seriously, look at this typical fire gear:



1. Where is he going to carry his sidearm?

2. How is he supposed to draw and use it?


Expecting a fireman to show up at a fire with a sidearm and be able to use it is just a little less ridiculous than asking a scuba diver to carry a shotgun.

[Rolyo85]

Um, we DO remember than guns are at risk of spontaneous discharge in high heat, right?

[Kulindahr]

Um, we DO remember than guns are at risk of spontaneous discharge in high heat, right?

LOL

I hadn't thought past showing up and the concept of shooting back.

[Rolyo85]

That would be the gun lobby's problem, yes

[Kulindahr]

That would be the gun lobby's problem, yes

Are you ever going to get rational on this subject and stop with the emotional sniping?

[Rolyo85]

I am rational, and have been all along. You're the irrational one. As for the sniping, it's just sniping, not emotional sniping ^_^

[White Eagle]

Or the one with the gun could show up dressed like the FF with the axe, sidearm on the other side.

[Kulindahr]

Or the one with the gun could show up dressed like the FF with the axe, sidearm on the other side.

You're not thinking of fighting fire, you're thinking of having some!

[Rolyo85]

I would cheat with this one, yes ^_^

[White Eagle]

You're not thinking of fighting fire, you're thinking of having some!

Methinks this is more Centex's type.

[palbert]

And further:

From NBC:

Updated at 3:30 p.m. ET: Police investigating the ambush Monday in upstate New York in which two firefighters were killed said Tuesday that they had found what appeared to be human remains at the gunman's home believed they were those of his 67-year-old sister, who lived with him.

[chance1]

did this really evolve into a hot firefighter play after doing a guns r bad play ?

you can't make this shit up

i think much like having to pass a mental fitness test for a firearm, we should have ce+P-ers subjected to a test

[JayHawk]

Methinks this is more Centex's type.

Only if he can handle a huge hose.....

[Rolyo85]

did this really evolve into a hot firefighter play after doing a guns r bad play ?

you can't make this shit up

i think much like having to pass a mental fitness test for a firearm, we should have ce+P-ers subjected to a test

You never answered my question. Isn't it tiring being this sanctimonious? It must take a terrible toll out of you.

Don't you see that if one can't laugh at this point, we might as well just start banging our heads in a wall?

[chance1]

You never answered my question. Isn't it tiring being this sanctimonious? It must take a terrible toll out of you.

Don't you see that if one can't laugh at this point, we might as well just start banging our heads in a wall?

No question it's a fucking laugh riot

Pathetic

[Jack Springer]

You never answered my question. Isn't it tiring being this sanctimonious? It must take a terrible toll out of you.

Don't you see that if one can't laugh at this point, we might as well just start banging our heads in a wall?

So you laugh at murdered people. Have you stopped laughing about the 20 dead children?

Sick. Sick. Sick.

[JayHawk]

You never answered my question. Isn't it tiring being this sanctimonious? It must take a terrible toll out of you.

Don't you see that if one can't laugh at this point, we might as well just start banging our heads in a wall?

Dont think you can reason. It doesn't ever work. Some folks carry the heavy burden of being offended at everything. Then when they cant make any intellectual points they fall back on feigned offense at what any other person will say. That is what is truly pathetic. For lack of reason trying the I am so offended card. No contribution to topic. No comment on the actual discussion. Just tears of a clown.

One guy makes two entries into the thread of which both are attacks on CEP'ers and none of which contribute anything but his personal bitterness to the conversation. The other joins in gangbang style to see if they can get something to stick.

On the topic, you have to admit this shoots a few holes in the 'control' idea. this guy was a convicted felon who should not have weapons. So any ideas about control are very publicly and very brutally flushed down the toilet.

It leaves the only real solutions to things like repeal of 2nd amendment or at a minimum registering all weapons. Neither of which is plausible in America today.

[White Eagle]

He should have never gotten out of jail. That was his grandmother he killed with a hammer and they found a body in the burned out house, presumably his sister who went missing.