The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

[rareboy]

Well not surprisingly, the NRA position on all of this is to not have fewer guns in the schools. It is to have more.

Conservatively, there are almost 120,000 public and private schools in the US.

The cost of a single policeman in every school at salary and benefits of $65,000 per year will be $7.8 billion dollars.

So it is offering a solution that will be unaffordable unless the taxpayers decide that either their education dollars should be spent on armed guards who might be lucky and not be the first person a crazed gunman would kill.

Jesus wept.

No surprise that the intellectually bankrupt LaPierre is just tone deaf.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle6632036/

[palbert]

You forgot the damages for wrongful injury or wrongful death claims caused by spooked guards.

[JayHawk]

You knew it would be an ignorant solution. There is really no surprise at all.

The gun manufacturers would support fully a entire industry expanding policy that neither makes American society more safe nor addresses the core issues. it simply allows America to flounder in a 19th century mentality.

[EastMed]

It's a grotesque statement by the NRA.

Would they be willing to pay for having armed police in every school?
Why should the rest of society have to pay for the social and economic costs of this gun obsession?

Rather than parsing the Second Amendment one more time there is an easier approach, one typically favored by conservative gun owners for other public policy issues: end cost-shifting. Force those who chose to own guns to bear the full cost of the mayhem their hobby unleashes. Ending the gun subsidies will eventually end the gun violence.

Families of the victims should be compensated from a fund owned by a tax on guns and ammunition, as should the cost of all gun-related law enforcement for this and every other gun related crime. When guns leave a victim disabled the fund should pay for their care for life. When that victim leaves a family with less income, or no income, the fund should pay. When neighborhoods are besieged by gun violence the gun fund will pay for enough police protection to stabilize the area. Every cost of gun violence should be shifted back to those who choose to participate in the gun economy.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/...ownership.html

[CoolBlue71]

It's not a solution.

Wayne LaPierre is looking to protect the NRA on accountability. The gun manufacturers love and want protected the status quo.

[swerve]

Not to mention that it could be psychologically traumatic for some of the kids to have to learn in an environment where there are ARMED guards...

TOTALLY RIDICULOUS...

[TX-Beau]

Of course most of the NRA is terrified of the GOV taking their guns so of course they want the Gov to hire more cops...........

OH Wait.

Never mind.

[TX-Beau]

I have an idea, why don't we institute a TAX - call it the paranoia tax, on sales of guns and ammo that will cover the cost of all those extra cops.


Gun owners who of course are very patriotic and love our kids and hate government spending will not mind paying it to ensure our freedom from the tyranny of Kind Geor.... Ahem - THAT man.

[Laufey]

Not to mention that it could be psychologically traumatic for some of the kids to have to learn in an environment where there are ARMED guards...

TOTALLY RIDICULOUS...

I also think the metal detectors have negative effects on their well being in school. It's sad that it has come to that over there.

[rareboy]

Well, apparently even the conservatives are stunned by this.

Michael Steele:

I just think that this was a missed opportunity to create another conversation at a higher level where the American people are right now. This incident cut to the bone. This is unlike anything that's come before it because it did involve such precious young people and it really starkly called us to think about our society, those issues, not just gun control laws but mental health and a whole bunch of other things I think the NRA could have brought to the table, the idea that the message, the top line message out of this press conference is let's put a gun in the hands of teachers in our classroom and I do not think that's where rank-and-file NRA members expected this to go to.

Christie:

"I don’t necessarily think having an armed guard outside every classroom is conducive to a positive learning environment." @GovChristie says

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...ative-reaction

[rareboy]

And from the Newtown Congressman:

Walking out of another funeral and was handed the NRA transcript. The most revolting, tone deaf statement I've ever seen.

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/21/newt...ent_revolting/

[TX-Beau]

I also think the metal detectors have negative effects on their well being in school. It's sad that it has come to that over there.

America is segregated by class and sometimes by fences. Schools in wealthy and suburban places probably look just like yours or are nicer, schools for the poor are understaffed, underfunded and usually overpopulated, that's where you see the metal detectors.

It is a national shame that things have come to this - in the wealthiest country on the planet. There is no excuse. None.

[rareboy]

From Mark Kelly and Gabby Giffords:

“Gabby and I are extremely disappointed by the NRA’s defiant and delayed response to the massacre of 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School. The NRA could have chosen to be a voice for the vast majority of its own members who want common sense, reasonable safeguards on deadly firearms, but instead it chose to defend extreme pro-gun positions that aren’t even popular among the law abiding gun owners it represents.”

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/21/newt...ent_revolting/

I think that the NRA may have just helped to galvanize the nation against them and their agenda....

[bankside]

The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead?

Rareboy, you're slipping.

The NRA Solution is an insult to the living and the dead.

[Rolyo85]

America is segregated by class and sometimes by fences. Schools in wealthy and suburban places probably look just like yours or are nicer, schools for the poor are understaffed, underfunded and usually overpopulated, that's where you see the metal detectors.

It is a national shame that things have come to this - in the wealthiest country on the planet. There is no excuse. None.

And the saddest part? Those mass shootings happen in the nice suburban white schools without the metal detectors...

[TX-Beau]

The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead?

Rareboy, you're slipping.

The NRA Solution is an insult to the living and the dead.

And to the living who will soon be dead.

[Rolyo85]

From Mark Kelly and Gabby Giffords:



http://www.salon.com/2012/12/21/newt...ent_revolting/


I think that the NRA may have just helped to galvanize the nation against them and their agenda....

Yeah, let's hope this will be the gun nuts' "legitimate rape".

[TX-Beau]

And the saddest part? Those mass shootings happen in the nice suburban white schools without the metal detectors...

Those mass shootings are not the biggest factor in violence in schools. Just like when little white girls get kidnapped they are all over the news, and when little black girls get kidnapped nary a peep - violence in low income area schools is rarely reported.

Not that this means the mass shootings aren't tragic and dramatic, they are just much rarer than the other, and there is this "it couldn't happen here," kind of sentiment that doesn't exist for places you expect it to happen.

- - - Updated - - -

Think of it this way, how bad did the problem have to get to actually get the GOV to cough up money for Cops and Detectors in schools.

[Rolyo85]

NO, you're right, I was just pointing out something. Regular school violence is clearly a huge problem as well, but that to me is an out of school problem that just comes there as well.

[Telstra]

Well not surprisingly, the NRA position on all of this is to not have fewer guns in the schools. It is to have more.

Conservatively, there are almost 120,000 public and private schools in the US.

The cost of a single policeman in every school at salary and benefits of $65,000 per year will be $7.8 billion dollars.

So it is offering a solution that will be unaffordable unless the taxpayers decide that either their education dollars should be spent on armed guards who might be lucky and not be the first person a crazed gunman would kill.

Jesus wept.

No surprise that the intellectually bankrupt LaPierre is just tone deaf.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle6632036/

I've heard that on news radio.
The cost would be incredible and the guards won't feel safe.
Its easy for a gun man to kill the guard first, then the school kids next. So easy to kill.

[HenryReardon]

Not to mention that it could be psychologically traumatic for some of the kids to have to learn in an environment where there are ARMED guards...

Sure. Children shouldn't have to know about the big bad world out there. What a cop-out.

[Rolyo85]

You are a deep - DEEP - psychologist, Henry... Did it ever occur to you that what swerve meant was that children shouldn't feel like school is a prison with armed guards? It's pretty hard on many of them as it is.

[rareboy]

Sure. Children shouldn't have to know about the big bad world out there. What a cop-out.

You do realize that your posts are a sad joke, don't you?

[rareboy]

Reactions from the celebs today:

http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/12/21/ce...ss-conference/

[Peterdragin]

GO HERE and help out!

[Jack Springer]

Actually, I thought the suggestion of having a law enforcement office at every school in the country sounded more like a liberal solution to the problem. Just think over 250,000 new members of the policemen's union. Throwing money at a problem is historical liberalism. A local suburban soccer mom group is petitioning the President to hire a security officer at each school.

Advocating for banning assault weapons makes as much sense -- just what is an assault weapon. The ban didn't work the first time it was tried -- why would it work now?

I noticed that the rest of his suggestions were quickly sweep under the rug -- just like Lapierre said it would happen --- video games, movies and TV shows that highlight and promote murder have been omitted from every article I have read this evening.

Has anyone heard or played the "Kill a Kindergartener" (I may have the name slightly wrong) video game?

[Centexfarmer]

Well not surprisingly, the NRA position on all of this is to not have fewer guns in the schools. It is to have more.

Conservatively, there are almost 120,000 public and private schools in the US.

The cost of a single policeman in every school at salary and benefits of $65,000 per year will be $7.8 billion dollars.

So it is offering a solution that will be unaffordable unless the taxpayers decide that either their education dollars should be spent on armed guards who might be lucky and not be the first person a crazed gunman would kill.

Jesus wept.

No surprise that the intellectually bankrupt LaPierre is just tone deaf.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle6632036/

What's worse than that?

It's probably the ONLY COMPROMISE that will come out of Washington between now and January 1, 2013.

[HenryReardon]

You do realize that your posts are a sad joke, don't you?

You do realize that bedwetting liberals are living in 'la-la land' don't you? LOL

Wake up and look at the world. There are no innocent children these days. Not in the classic sense of the word. Not in any sense of the word, in fact. Think about the things to which they're exposed on a daily basis.

[Jack Springer]

Reactions from the celebs today:

http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/12/21/ce...ss-conference/

Why would you care what a celebrity had to say?

[frankfrank]

Would they be willing to pay for having armed police in every school?
Why should the rest of society have to pay for the social and economic costs of this gun obsession?

Because that Republican organization says so. After all, the Republicans want to eliminate superfluous government spending.

Oh...wait...

The first thing that occurred to me, was HOW is the contradiction between Republican budget austerity, and the NRA advocation of "whatever it takes" to put armed guards in every school via government funding, be resolved?

Just think over 250,000 new members of the policemen's union.

In your world, there would be ZERO new members of the Policemen's union...because it wouldn't exist. Republicans so hate public (or quasi-public employees such as the US Postal Service) employees being in unions, that they are generally willing to destroy every shred of government employment if that's what it tadkes to get rid of the unions. (Or, in the case of the US Postal Service, they're more like a federally-regulated utility. Close enough.)

[chance1]

Why would you care what a celebrity had to say?

Alyssa Milano chimed in - is she canadian?

Great idea - more guns to buy - more ammo to buy - for protection against ......

other guns

Brillant (think guinness commercial)

wayne l is right about non gun elements being important and requiring focus

but his suggestions with regard to guns sorta drowns that out

[HenryReardon]

Why would you care what a celebrity had to say?

For some reason the dumb masses seem to hang on every word uttered by the celebutwits and celebutwats.
Memo to celebs: shut up and act; or sing; or whatever it is that you do.

[JB3]

What is most frustrating is that the NRA COULD have chosen to be on the vanguard of sensible regulation, and an increased focus on mental health issue and gun ownership. Instead they chose the easy way out. They could have made themselves relevant in the upcoming discussions, but they didn't.

[HenryReardon]

OhIn your world, there would be ZERO new members of the Policemen's union...because it wouldn't exist. Republicans so hate public (or quasi-public employees such as the US Postal Service) employees being in unions, that they are generally willing to destroy every shred of government employment if that's what it tadkes to get rid of the unions. (Or, in the case of the US Postal Service, they're more like a federally-regulated utility. Close enough.)

Read your history. FDR himself, the father of American socialism, warned against public sector unions:


http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...-sector-unions

Excerpt:

The founders of the labor movement viewed unions as a vehicle to get workers more of the profits they help create. Government workers, however, don’t generate profits. They merely negotiate for more tax money. When government unions strike, they strike against taxpayers. F.D.R. considered this “unthinkable and intolerable.”

[Laufey]

For some reason the dumb masses seem to hang on every word uttered by the celebutwits and celebutwats.
Memo to celebs: shut up and act; or sing; or whatever it is that you do.

Nothing kills your career faster than taking a political stand.

I'm tired of celebrities who think they can save the world.

[Centexfarmer]

You do realize that bedwetting liberals are living in 'la-la land' don't you? LOL

Wake up and look at the world. There are no innocent children these days. Not in the classic sense of the word. Not in any sense of the word, in fact. Think about the things to which they're exposed on a daily basis.

So....urm....the young man...who could be described as a Psychopathy is clearly "ordinary" based upon a FOX NEWS demography?

...and therefore worthy of some sort of protection, even though he's as dead as his victims?

Please clarify.

[Kulindahr]

I have an idea, why don't we institute a TAX - call it the paranoia tax, on sales of guns and ammo that will cover the cost of all those extra cops.


Gun owners who of course are very patriotic and love our kids and hate government spending will not mind paying it to ensure our freedom from the tyranny of Kind Geor.... Ahem - THAT man.

One problem: the Supreme Court has said more than once that you can't tax the exercise of a right (except when it's an inclusive tax that doesn't single out that exercise). So a tax on, say, all sporting goods, could go, but one on just guns and ammo wouldn't.

I agree it would be a "paranoia tax", because it would be done to ease the liberal paranoia about law-abiding citizens.

- - - Updated - - -

I also think the metal detectors have negative effects on their well being in school. It's sad that it has come to that over there.

Those can be built into doorways so they're not even noticeable.

[HenryReardon]

So....urm....the young man...who could be described as a Psychopathy is clearly "ordinary" based upon a FOX NEWS demography?

...and therefore worthy of some sort of protection, even though he's as dead as his victims?

Please clarify.

I defy anybody diagram or otherwise make sense out of that rather tortured syntax.

As for the perpetrator, wasn't his mother trying to get him commited, or at least get him help?

[Kulindahr]

Actually, I thought the suggestion of having a law enforcement office at every school in the country sounded more like a liberal solution to the problem. Just think over 250,000 new members of the policemen's union. Throwing money at a problem is historical liberalism. A local suburban soccer mom group is petitioning the President to hire a security officer at each school.

An authoritarian response, anyway. I was surprised La Pierre didn't suggest the obvious sensible approach, to arm the teachers.

[Kulindahr]

What is most frustrating is that the NRA COULD have chosen to be on the vanguard of sensible regulation, and an increased focus on mental health issue and gun ownership. Instead they chose the easy way out. They could have made themselves relevant in the upcoming discussions, but they didn't.

Actually LaPierre surprised the heck out of many NRA members by conceding the mental health issue in a way that pretty much reversed what they did in Florida. His suggestion would allow people considered dangerous to be reported to the NICS.

[HenryReardon]

An authoritarian response, anyway. I was surprised La Pierre didn't suggest the obvious sensible approach, to arm the teachers.

Because he knows it would have started an even larger shitstorm in the MSM. I don't watch CNN, but someone told me that when he got to the meat of his talk, CNN went to commercial break. Can't have the listeners hearing anything important, after all.

[Kulindahr]

I defy anybody diagram or otherwise make sense out of that rather tortured syntax.

As for the perpetrator, wasn't his mother trying to get him commited, or at least get him help?

Yes. And if it weren't for Ronald Reagan, who gutted our mental health support infrastructure, she might have been able to.

And if it weren't for GW Bush and his military adventurism, and his eagerness to let the wealthy off paying their fair share, we might be able to afford to put it back.

[Kulindahr]

As to the thread title:

if the NRA solution is "an insult to the dead", then the mere existence of the police is an insult to the victims of crime.

[HenryReardon]

his eagerness to let the wealthy off paying their fair share, we might be able to afford to put it back.

Oh, puhleeze. There you go with that 'fair' nonsense again. The wealthy carry 80 to 90% of the load now, depending on where you set the quartile divisions. That's beyond fair.

That whole 'wealth envy' nonsense is getting more than a bit shopworn.

It's time to stop penalizing the achievers.

[opinterph]

The wealthy carry 80 to 90% of the load now, depending on where you set the quartile divisions. That's beyond fair.

What percent of the wealth do the wealthy control, what percent of “the burden of income” do they bear, and has the trend of those percentages changed in recent years?

[HenryReardon]

What percent of the wealth do the wealthy control, what percent of “the burden of income” do they bear, and has the trend of those percentages changed in recent years?

Really? Are you serious?

Hopefully CBS will be an adequate source for you:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505103_1...e-brief-taxes/

Who Pays Their "Fair Share?"


The distribution of the income tax burden is mostly progressive: those who earn more pay a greater share.


In 2009, according to IRS data, The top-earning 1 percent of households paid 36.73 percent of all federal income taxes. The top 5 percent paid 58.66 percent of all federal income taxes, the top 10 percent paid 70.47 percent of all income taxes, the top 25 percent paid 87.3 percent, the top 50 percent paid 97.75 percent, and the remaining 2.25 percent of federal income taxes were paid by the bottom 50 percent.


The progressive structure of the income tax code breaks down at the top of the income spectrum -- although the top-earning 0.1 percent of taxpayers paid 17.1 percent of 2009 federal income taxes, their marginal rate is actually lower than the rest of the top 1 percent because more of their income is derived from capital gains and dividends, which are taxed at a lower rate (currently 15 percent.)

[opinterph]

Really? Are you serious?

Hopefully CBS will be an adequate source for you:

CBS might be an adequate source, but your quote from the linked article fails to answer my inquiry.

[Centexfarmer]

I defy anybody diagram or otherwise make sense out of that rather tortured syntax.

As for the perpetrator, wasn't his mother trying to get him commited, or at least get him help?

Do you mean that he "came out" as wanting to vote as a member of the Tea Party?

[JayHawk]

As to the thread title:

if the NRA solution is "an insult to the dead", then the mere existence of the police is an insult to the victims of crime.

Okay.. well I have a question for you Kuli that i just read on Huffington Post i think...

Columbine had an armed police officer on duty at the school.

Go back and read that again.

Now tell me what does hiring 25000 peace officers do if it is already proven NOT to solve the problem?

How bout check this out. Here is the Huffington posts front page right now..... it is a list of the fatal shootings that have occurred in the United States since Sandy Hook

[Ninja108]

Keep in mind most of these shooters end up killing themselves. The idea that they will be scared be scared of an armed guard when they don't fear death is absurd.