Needed: a new Voting Rights Act

[Kulindahr]

Florida is the last straw: people waiting eight hours to vote, people camping out overnight outside the polling places, and more, all driven by state officials unconcerned about whether everyone gets to vote. But there was Pennsylvania, where at least one machine was turning votes for Barrack Obama into votes for Mitt Romney, and there was Ohio, where officials made illegal changes to the software at the last minute -- besides the appearance of corruption by having family and friends of a candidate owning the voting machines. Add on all sorts of irregularities elsewhere, and it's easy to see that something has to be done.


I say what's need is a new Voting Rights Act, for the whole country. The only questions are how far it should go, and what penalties and remedies it should contain.

For starters:

every voter must have equal access to voting, physically. That means there must be a maximum number of voters per polling place, and a minimum number of machines, and a minimum average travel time with a maximum one as well, plus a maximum waiting time to vote.

No more cutting voting hours to make it harder. No more making polling places harder to get to. No more different standards for different ethnic neighborhoods.

If we are a land of equal rights, those things are a minimum.

[Jack Springer]

yeah ... free food, drinks.

maybe recliners to chill in while you wait

free manicures

free massages

yes, let's to the libertarian thing and add more laws.

[Kulindahr]

yeah ... free food, drinks.

maybe recliners to chill in while you wait

free manicures

free massages

yes, let's to the libertarian thing and add more laws.

Laws protecting people's rights are the essence of libertarian government. Your cheap shot merely demonstrates you have no clue what believing in liberty means.

As for free stuff -- sure. If some rich people out there are willing to promote such things, it would be awesome; let there be a free barbecue for everyone who voted.

[chance1]

I had to fill in what seemed like a high school multiple choice test

with a pen

fill in the rectangular sorta circle

then go to a pseudo fax machine and put it upside down - so the monitor couldn't see it i guess

then "fax" it

and it says "your vote has been counted"

hilariously old school

[chance1]

i miss the curtain close - pull the lever (x marks the spot)

finish

pull the curtain back

say bye to the white haired ladies with their dunkin donuts and coffee

[TheFireGod]

I had to fill in what seemed like a high school multiple choice test

with a pen

fill in the rectangular sorta circle

then go to a pseudo fax machine and put it upside down - so the monitor couldn't see it i guess

then "fax" it

and it says "your vote has been counted"

hilariously old school

I had that also, at least in my county.

Old school only by the fact that it's paper. Otherwise, it's a good middle-point between touch screen machines and having to read every piece of paper (like they do for UK Parliament elections).

We had touch screens when I voted in 2006 and 2008, but had bubble-in paper and fax since 2010.

Florida was just a hot mess because:

1. There were a shitload of special interest constitution amendments that ran from the middle column of the back of page 1, to midway in the right column of the back of page 2 (on my ballot). And I lived in an unincorporated part of the county, who knows how many more questions that the people in cities/towns had in their ballots. This made voting waaaaayyyy longer.

2. Early voting was cut in half compared to 2008.

[TX-Beau]

We have the touch screens. I had to wait a whole 5 minutes to vote.

[bankside]

Kulindahr this is quite a departure from what I understood to be your previous principle: that the US was a republic of independent states with no place for this kind of uniformity.

[TX-Beau]

Almost - dare I say LIBERAL!!

... Shirley clutch the pearls...

[chance1]

Kulindahr this is quite a departure from what I understood to be your previous principle: that the US was a republic of independent states with no place for this kind of uniformity.

quite

evolution is not just something they teach in schools

[Jack Springer]

Florida needs to clean house. Get rid of all the old election officials.

The long lines at my polling place were because the local media told people to vote early. The line started before 5:30 (polls open at 6am and close at 7pm). We were extremely busy until noon and then it died off.

Voting is simple with a card you slide into the machine and you mark your ballot with a ink stylus -- but many people screwed up.

I think we only had a few voters after 6:30pm.

The place I worked, an upscale residential care center, gave us breakfast, lunch, and dinner -- no stale donuts.

[palemale]

I had to fill in what seemed like a high school multiple choice test

with a pen

fill in the rectangular sorta circle

then go to a pseudo fax machine and put it upside down - so the monitor couldn't see it i guess

then "fax" it

and it says "your vote has been counted"

hilariously old school

I liked the old machines, too. So post-WWII (the age of those machines). I had to wait two hours to vote. They added a whole lot of buildings to my voting district, and cut the number of people signing in. I never had to wait more than 15 minutes to vote.

Of course, there were a number of people casting affidavit ballots. Cuomo permitted New Yorkers to vote anywhere by affidavit ballot because so many voting locations were destroyed or unusable because of Hurricane Sandy.

[palemale]

In Miami there were only 15 polling locations.

That is insane. We probably had that many polling locations in all of Greenwich Village.

[Kulindahr]

Kulindahr this is quite a departure from what I understood to be your previous principle: that the US was a republic of independent states with no place for this kind of uniformity.

Huh? What "uniformity"? You mean like the "uniformity" we have with freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc.?

The whole point of having a federal government is that rights are recognized uniformly.

[Kulindahr]

Almost - dare I say LIBERAL!!

... Shirley clutch the pearls...

Classical liberal, which is libertarian, and quite far from today's liberals.

[Jack Springer]

ohhhhhhhhh

liberal = libertarian

Amazing. Are you going to send out a press release?

[Kulindahr]

I liked the old machines, too. So post-WWII (the age of those machines). I had to wait two hours to vote. They added a whole lot of buildings to my voting district, and cut the number of people signing in. I never had to wait more than 15 minutes to vote.

Of course, there were a number of people casting affidavit ballots. Cuomo permitted New Yorkers to vote anywhere by affidavit ballot because so many voting locations were destroyed or unusable because of Hurricane Sandy.

It would be interesting to see a map of the US showing the wait time for voting. Florida would obviously be screwed up.

You bring up something that would have to be acknowledged in a new Voting Rights Act: natural disasters. A state clearly shouldn't be penalized for failing to provide access in the face of such a thing; indeed, they should be able to call on the federal government to help meet the standards anyway -- for example, if the standard is no travel time longer than an hour, but highways are out, the National Guard might be called on to do mobile polling stations that go out on circuits, so people don't have to make their way to the regular polling places.

[Kulindahr]

I had to fill in what seemed like a high school multiple choice test

with a pen

fill in the rectangular sorta circle

then go to a pseudo fax machine and put it upside down - so the monitor couldn't see it i guess

then "fax" it

and it says "your vote has been counted"

hilariously old school

That's just weird, nothing "old school" about it. Heck, if there's electricity involved, it's not old school.

- - - Updated - - -

ohhhhhhhhh

liberal = libertarian

Amazing. Are you going to send out a press release?

Are you ever going to get an education?

[TX-Beau]

Classical liberal, which is libertarian, and quite far from today's liberals.

There's no use dissembling,the primary function of government is to secure the liberty and welfare of it's citizens is still the core of Liberal philosophy.

[Jack Springer]

You guys and your technologically implemented voting lol. Over here, its tick box, fold paper, post in ballet box.

What is a tick box?

[opinterph]

What is a tick box?

It's a space designed on a form that is intended to be marked.

[frankfrank]

A new and more muscular CIVIL RIGHTS FOR VOTERS Amendment also needs to include:

All people who are residents of the United States on the date of the election, and who have a federally-issued Social Security Number, shall not be deprived of their right to vote. In addition, all residents who have Social Security numbers shall be required to obtain Photo ID's entirely free of any out-of-pocket costs, and recipients of these Photo ID cards shall be given the option to display their Social Security Number partially, or in its entirety. Photo ID Cards would be issued at federal ID offices, which would be operated by the Federal Government, OR privately with adherence to strict regulations governing the issuance of these ID's.

Yes, I am including people who are incarcerated, and ex-felons. Voting should be the most fundamental right that we are given the right to act upon.

(I am thinking kind of along the model of the Selective Service offices which used to exist, where all males reaching the age of 18 were required to register for the Draft, and all registered males were required to carry their Draft Card on their person at all times, until they were 45 years of age and no longer in the Draft pool.)

Photo ID, at the option of individual states, may be required at polling places. However, this does not add a burden, because all eligible voters would already be required to have a Federal ID card, without cost. Additionally, all states which choose to require Photo ID's, shall accept the additional options of recognizing Photo Drivers Licenses, or State Photo ID's which are often issued to persons who cannot drive.

(I am NOT sure what to do about absentee ballots, where arguably the chances for outright voting fraud are most prominent. Actually committing voting fraud at polling places, the alleged abuse which was supposed to be corrected by most of the restrictive voting laws, is quite difficult. None of the restrictive voting laws addressed absentee voting...AT ALL.)

In any election which includes any candidate for any Federal office, election tampering is cause for any County, Independent City, Parish, or Alaskan Borough or Census Division, or the entire State in cases where election tampering is legislated to lose all federal funding for a period not less than the entire calendar year after which the offense occurs.

Tampering would include differential voting hours, including those hours assigned for early voting, from any one location in the State compared to any other location in the State. Kulindahr, I like your suggestion of the proportional allocation of voting facilities, hardware, and capacity as well.

Obvious and deliberate lying (such as fliers telling people in Metropolis County or the 74th Ward that voting is on Thursday November 5...or telling voters that Photo ID is *NOT* required if it is indeed required) shall be punishable under Federal Law by fines no less than $1,000,000.

I could say a lot more. I say "more muscular" because it seems that many jurisdictions have devised MANY different ways of making end runs around the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

[bankside]

Huh? What "uniformity"? You mean like the "uniformity" we have with freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc.?

The whole point of having a federal government is that rights are recognized uniformly.

Wonderful. We have something called Elections Canada (www.elections.ca) that you might want to look into. A non-partisan agency that conducts the entire national election the same way.

[Jack Springer]

It's a space designed on a form that is intended to be marked.

Are you in the UK? Maybe it means something different there.

[Jack Springer]

A new and more muscular CIVIL RIGHTS FOR VOTERS Amendment also needs to include:

All people who are residents of the United States on the date of the election, and who have a federally-issued Social Security Number, shall not be deprived of their right to vote. In addition, all residents who have Social Security numbers shall be required to obtain Photo ID's entirely free of any out-of-pocket costs, and recipients of these Photo ID cards shall be given the option to display their Social Security Number partially, or in its entirety. Photo ID Cards would be issued at federal ID offices, which would be operated by the Federal Government, OR privately with adherence to strict regulations governing the issuance of these ID's.

Yes, I am including people who are incarcerated, and ex-felons. Voting should be the most fundamental right that we are given the right to act upon.

(I am thinking kind of along the model of the Selective Service offices which used to exist, where all males reaching the age of 18 were required to register for the Draft, and all registered males were required to carry their Draft Card on their person at all times, until they were 45 years of age and no longer in the Draft pool.)

Photo ID, at the option of individual states, may be required at polling places. However, this does not add a burden, because all eligible voters would already be required to have a Federal ID card, without cost. Additionally, all states which choose to require Photo ID's, shall accept the additional options of recognizing Photo Drivers Licenses, or State Photo ID's which are often issued to persons who cannot drive.

(I am NOT sure what to do about absentee ballots, where arguably the chances for outright voting fraud are most prominent. Actually committing voting fraud at polling places, the alleged abuse which was supposed to be corrected by most of the restrictive voting laws, is quite difficult. None of the restrictive voting laws addressed absentee voting...AT ALL.)

In any election which includes any candidate for any Federal office, election tampering is cause for any County, Independent City, Parish, or Alaskan Borough or Census Division, or the entire State in cases where election tampering is legislated to lose all federal funding for a period not less than the entire calendar year after which the offense occurs.

Tampering would include differential voting hours, including those hours assigned for early voting, from any one location in the State compared to any other location in the State. Kulindahr, I like your suggestion of the proportional allocation of voting facilities, hardware, and capacity as well.

Obvious and deliberate lying (such as fliers telling people in Metropolis County or the 74th Ward that voting is on Thursday November 5...or telling voters that Photo ID is *NOT* required if it is indeed required) shall be punishable under Federal Law by fines no less than $1,000,000.

I could say a lot more. I say "more muscular" because it seems that many jurisdictions have devised MANY different ways of making end runs around the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

Inserting a chip under your skin would be easier. That way the government could keep track of everyone.

[TX-Beau]

No, we pretty much all knew what he meant.

[bankside]

You tick the box on a form to indicate your choice.

[opinterph]

Are you in the UK? Maybe it means something different there.

No. I’m actually closer to Appalachia where “tick boxes” are designed to hold small blood-sucking creatures.

[Centexfarmer]

No. I’m actually closer to Appalachia where “tick boxes” are designed to hold small blood-sucking creatures.

And even here in Texas my Grandma use to



them off!

I prefer the boxes that get ticked with a pen or a pencil!

[TX-Beau]

Really? Around here tick boxes are cages in which we put people with spasming facial muscles.

- - - Updated - - -

I remember the matches though, chiggers, ticks, and red bugs Oh MY!

[Centexfarmer]

Really? Around here tick boxes are cages in which we put people with spasming facial muscles.

- - - Updated - - -

I remember the matches though, chiggers, ticks, and red bugs Oh MY!

Tell me if I'm lying!

Tourists see bluebonnets, and wildflowers in the spring, and I see BILLIONS OF CHIGGERS!

[TX-Beau]

Yeah and you see them out aside the highway in their shorts and flip-flops sitting in the bluebonnets - taking pics - and you just drive by laughing.

[Centexfarmer]

Yeah and you see them out aside the highway in their shorts and flip-flops sitting in the bluebonnets - taking pics - and you just drive by laughing.

Or see them propping up their babies for pictures, and resisting the urge to call Child Protective Services.

[bankside]

What is a chigger? And by red bugs is that the name of some sort of bug, or do you mean any variety of bugs that happen to be red.

[TX-Beau]

If you've never known the pleasure:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trombiculidae



And that doesn't even get into the fire ants.

[Centexfarmer]

If you've never known the pleasure:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trombiculidae



And that doesn't even get into the fire ants.

Been there done that, on both accounts!

[TX-Beau]

Fire Ants - ahh the memories...

[Jack Springer]

What is a chigger? And by red bugs is that the name of some sort of bug, or do you mean any variety of bugs that happen to be red.

Never been out of the concrete jungle?

[bankside]

Never been out of the concrete jungle?

No. We just don't have them here. Even out in the woods camping. You might have to worry about mosquitos and grizzly bears but not that. Black flies if you go far enough north. They're like little carnivorous fruit flies. But no chiggers.

[TX-Beau]

I think I'd worry more about Grizzly Bears.

[Tengilethos]

Yeah, classical liberalism = libertarianism, no doubt. How can Democrats be "liberals" when they are proponents of illiberal economic policy and are split 50-50 on social issues? (Gay Marriage = liberal, Affirmative Action = illiberal).

Anyway, I am amazed by the US voting system. 6-7 hour wait times to cast your ballot in some places? Why do you tolerate that?

Why do you still vote Tuesdays? We vote on Sunday in Germany. Why don't you do that too? I know our situation is not wholly comparable, because of many (Christian) restrictions on working on Sunday, only 12% of all Germans work on Sunday, compared to 35% of Americans (warning, I used the first Google result for these numbers so they may not be accurate). But there are still fewer people working on Sunday in the US, why don't you change the day you vote to make it easier for all Americans to vote?

This change would be a cheap and easy way to improve your system. For more information you should read this excellent article of David Frum.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/05/op...aos/index.html

[Kulindahr]

Wonderful. We have something called Elections Canada (www.elections.ca) that you might want to look into. A non-partisan agency that conducts the entire national election the same way.

You pointed me that way before. I think it's totally the way to go -- but I'd add one item, for the U.S.: they should do redistricting as well, putting an end to gerrymandering.

[Kulindahr]

Are you in the UK? Maybe it means something different there.

He doesn't have to be. He's literate enough to know how to use this nifty thing called the internet and learn things.

You should try it sometime.

[Kulindahr]

If you've never known the pleasure:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trombiculidae



And that doesn't even get into the fire ants.

I went hiking barefoot in Alabama and the folks there were horrified. But there are tricks:

1. Eat lots of onion, garlic, and oregano -- bugs don't like the aroma these make from your skin, and stay away.

2. Smear feet with a camphor-heavy infusion, and wipe that lightly all the way up to the waist. Let soak in for at least an hour.

3. Cover all skin, in or out of clothes, with a heavy oil -- tanning oil works.

4. No matter how much you may itch while hiking, do not scratch, as it will reduce your protection.

[Kulindahr]

This change would be a cheap and easy way to improve your system. For more information you should read this excellent article of David Frum.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/05/op...aos/index.html

Excellent article indeed -- thanks.

I'll add to my proposed new Voting Rights Act a federal requirement that elections be overseen by non-partisan commissions. The states could form those in whatever way they wanted.

[JB3]

You pointed me that way before. I think it's totally the way to go -- but I'd add one item, for the U.S.: they should do redistricting as well, putting an end to gerrymandering.

That should be taken out of the hands of people. Feed the population and demographic information into a computer program, how many reps the state has, and have the program do the rest. No plans to realign districts in certain ways, no plans to take seats from the other party through redistricting, and no ridiculous maps that look like they were drawn by children.

[JB3]

Excellent article indeed -- thanks.

I'll add to my proposed new Voting Rights Act a federal requirement that elections be overseen by non-partisan commissions. The states could form those in whatever way they wanted.

We'll probably get a new voting rights act. SCOTUS has two cases dealing with the current one on the docket, and it could end up forcing congress to rewrite and update the act to modern standards.

[TX-Beau]

That should be taken out of the hands of people. Feed the population and demographic information into a computer program, how many reps the state has, and have the program do the rest. No plans to realign districts in certain ways, no plans to take seats from the other party through redistricting, and no ridiculous maps that look like they were drawn by children.

Sure but who gets to write the program?

[JB3]

IBM. :P

It would be a fairly easy program to construct. Take population map (e.g. map of population overlaid with geographic map), and divide it into even areas according to population density and geographic location.

It would prevent lunacy like the Illinois map from ever happening again.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http:%...018132&t=m&z=7

[TX-Beau]

Honest elections are extremely easy to construct, and yet here we are. Honest districts are extremely easy to construct - as are computer programs, and yet here we are.

A machine is only as honest as the people who program it.