Jews for Hitler

[chance1]

Recently a member on this forum referred to CE+P brethren (and others i imagine) who vote for Romney as "Jews for Hitler"

As nasty as it gets

It's something I will never forgive or forget - at least as it relates to this board and how we treat each other

But i do consider the source - and that source has a long history (in a short time) of dissociative behavior so ......

worse, much worse is another poster's intimidation as it relates to if one votes for Romney, there will be consequences

the source there is someone who seemingly regards himself as somehow above the fray and part mod/part poster yet has the stones to throw that shit out

anyway ............


so i googled "jews for hitler" and found this article

interesting (very) read about republicanism and gays - take a look

very interesting comment which says it all for me


"I'm sick and tired of being a Jew for Hitler," he says. "I'm like, 'Where's your tolerance? You accept everyone else under the sun except for us.'


http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012...gop-out-closet

[rareboy]

Really?

Is this really the hill we all want to die on?

[chance1]

Really?

Is this really the hill we all want to die on?

you're not a jew for hitler are you ?

and i plan on living a good long life - trader joes, good diet, working, working out ...... so far so good

and read the piece - it'll take a canadian minute

[Rolyo85]

Somebody quote OP please

[palbert]

I do not believe the GOP will "evolve" as soon as 2016. Anyway I find "Jews for Hitler" to be everything you say, and the posts using that phrase to describe would be better off stricken.

[palbert]

Worse then calling progressives terrorists? I think not.

But equally inexcusable under the Additional Posting Guidelines.

[chance1]

Does this constitute politics or current affairs? I don't like people needlessly insulting others, so i sympathise, but come on man, both left and right have opinionated sharp-tongues in their midst. Mountain making really. Thread closing soon??

what's the equivalent to jews for hitler that you've encountered ? i'm all ears

and read the article before you ask for closure of a thread

[Sausy]

I'm not voting Romney but I don't subscribe to the thought anyone who's gay voting for Romney is tantamount to Jews for Hitler. I don't like what I read about Romney's coldness to gay rights. But I still wouldn't vote for Obama because whether his cheerleaders believe it or not, because on the whole he is a piss poor president who is weakening us on the world stage and at home has us in a mediocre recovery that would be completely torpedoed if were able to enact the policies he really would prefer to. If Romney wins because Obama cannot convince enough he's worthy of a second term of spectacular hope and change, that's our system. We have no realistic options. Churchill was an ass in many of his views but if not for him Europe would have been completely broken by WWII. Reagan was very flawed but without his standing up to the Soviets would not have been able to force their hand and push us to meaningful arms reduction. Obama has displayed nothing to suggest I owe him my vote... he even "led from behind" on DADT... leaving up to others, including the hated in these parts Sen. Joe Lieberman, to do the heavy lifting. Maybe Romney is another Reagan, maybe not. But Obama sure ain't a Roosevelt, Truman, or even a Kennedy,either. Even if he is in his overly self indulgent mind.


Maybe the question should be " Do I want to ride up the hill with Obama in charge"? No thanks. Fooled me once,shame on you. Fooled me twice.. guess Obama supporters are beyond shame. They're only complaint may be "President Obama is not sufficiently lefty enough, but he'll do"!

[Just_Believe18]

Other than this being an obvious baiting thread towards a particular member, you've also engaged in personal commentary towards other members within just the last 48 hours. You just told people they're "going to hell." Damn, chance1. That's cold. I don't believe anyone is a Jew for Hitler, nor that they're going to hell for disagreeing with you. The difference though in reaction is that no one on this forum has made a "You're going to hell" thread about you.

[palbert]

Really?

Is this really the hill we all want to die on?

Jub prevailing attitude on the election and Benghazi threads:

"Ours is not to reason why. Ours is but to do or die."
Alfred, Lord Tennyson: Charge of the Light Brigade

[chance1]

Other than this being an obvious baiting thread towards a particular member, you've also engaged in personal commentary towards other members within just the last 48 hours. You just told people they're "going to hell." Damn, chance1. That's cold. I don't believe anyone is a Jew for Hitler, nor that they're going to hell for disagreeing with you.

JB - you have to make up your mind

moderator
poster

you're not both

you're not in charge of anything

and your recent intimidation post about consequences to those who vote for romney will go down in history as the worst of the worst

as for "baiting"

i'd day calling non obama voters "jews for hitler"

and non obama voters "will suffer consequences"

that's baiting

look in the mirror bro

oh yeah, here's a link to another hitler loving jew and the consequences of his beliefs

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/repu...ti-gay-attack/

[Just_Believe18]

I'm not pretending to be in charge of anything, chance1. "Suffer consequences?" I did not use those two words together in the context you are referring to. If by consequences you mean a vote for Romney would result in anti-gay Supreme Court Justices, a vigorous defense of DOMA (Paul Ryan promise), and pushing for a federal amendment to end gay marriage, yes, those are consequences from your vote.

I have not baited anyone. This thread, however, singles out a particular member you have a problem with. You should PM him instead.

[chance1]

I'm not pretending to be in charge of anything, chance1. "Suffer consequences?" I did not use those two words together in the context you are referring to. If by consequences you mean a vote for Romney would result in anti-gay Supreme Court Justices, a vigorous defense of DOMA (Paul Ryan promise), and pushing for a federal amendment to end gay marriage, yes, those are consequences from your vote.

I have not baited anyone. This thread, however, singles out a particular member you have a problem with. You should PM him instead.

don't tell me i should PM someone - you're not in charge

I want to find out what other more reasoned members think of the "jews for hitler" - i've already received several PMs from people i may disagree with but respect, none of whom find jew for hitler even remotely acceptable

u have conveniently not weighed in about the term

which is unfortunate for u and provides us with no insight as to your real beliefs

[Centexfarmer]

I "googled" LDS prop 8 and discovered this very recent article from the Houston Chronicle:

The Mormon role behind Proposition 8

The member to whom you're referring is perfectly capable of speaking for himself.

I just want to share a "different" perspective with you.

Of Course the Mormons, which Republican Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romney (is not only a member of, but serves in a leadership capacity within the LDS), want to share their take on it.

So to be fair, here's a link to their responses regarding the criticism that's come their way during Prop 8:

Same-Sex Marriage and Proposition 8

LDS Church responds to Prop. 8 ad

Isn't it interesting that the Evangelical Base of the Republican Party has been able to over look "Mormonism" during the upcoming POTUS elections?

I suspect it's because Mormon's hate us as much as they do.

OH! But MY GAWD!

For someone on this Gay sub-forum to "suggest" that voting for Romney (who's views on Gays in America is the only thing that he's been consistent about, and are consistent with the doctrines of the Church of the Latter Day Saints during his entire POTUS Campaign), for them to suggest that it's akin to a 'Jew voting for Hitler' is somehow "offensive?"

And here I was under the illusion that it's not just politics that we speak about here in CE&P, it's also about being studied up on the ISSUES that effect us most as Gay Men, and as a Community.

Y'all can sit around and piss and moan, and belly ache about which Cable News Network and which anchor said what, but something of "substance" in regard to real life actual direct involvement between those who support Prop 8 in California, and those who oppose it, while completely NEGLECTING TO MENTION that Mitt Romney is himself a member of the LDS CHURCH, frankly baffles me.

So let's make it "personal."

Let's get our gym shorts in a knot, and find ourselves incapable of untying our jock strap, and get an ass cramp because someone here in CE&P made a reference that 'a gay voting for Romney is like a Jew voting for Hitler.'

I'm more than a little disappointed.

First off because it's not the first time that the reference has ever been used in this forum...not by a long shot!

Secondly, because I expect many of us who post here who claim to follow politics here in American, and the "Gay Rights Movement" would be in the know about the LDS Church's involvement in Prop 8 in California, and what the consequences could be with a Mormon in the White House.

call it hate

call it a chocolate cupcake

it still doesn't change the fact that a serious and valid point was being made

Which brings me to the point that I want to make about the thread that brought this thread into being;

No one likes to be told "what to do."

No one likes to feel threatened.

But seriously!

Economics and "single issues" aside.

A Mormon, who's religion only became "mainstream" because the Right Wing Evangelicals were too open and up front with THEIR hate were no longer attractive to "Middle America."

For the sake of "politics" Romney being a Mormon, and by extension "religion" wasn't going to be an "issue" in this election, I say perhaps that it should have, and should be...at least when it comes to our lives, our families, and our equality as Gays in America.

So yeah! JEWS FOR HITLER!

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

If by consequences you mean a vote for Romney would result in anti-gay Supreme Court Justices, a vigorous defense of DOMA (Paul Ryan promise), and pushing for a federal amendment to end gay marriage, yes, those are consequences from your vote.

This, exactly. Some members don't want to hear or face the cold, hard consequences of a vote for this repulsive pair.

[chance1]

This, exactly. Some members don't want to hear or face the cold, hard consequences of a vote for this repulsive pair.

nice deflection luv

which seems to be the order of the day/week/month/year

will put u in the "jews for hitler" is ok column

let me know if that's NOT the case

[chance1]

Personally, i've encountered a lot worse on forums, from BOTH sides. I've been accused directly of being everything from a racist to a childkiller, and plenty more besides. I don't find 'jews for hitler' as being any more offensive than ANY extremity in the response of less reasonable posters. I did read the article, but, this thread looks like a personal attack, 'behind' the politics, rather than a political post inspired by the personal attack. If thats not the case, why mention the offending poster at all with this comment:- .

i guess we don't hang in the same parts of JUB - child killing i've not yet encountered

if calling out a "jews for hitler" poster who said it ............ and embraces it ............ is a personal attack ? it's a response to what i see as a personal attack

as for your last ref, that's to JB and that's about consequences that will come (not good ones) to gays who support romney

so you've mixed the two after i commented on JB's response

sorry but "jews for hitler" is beyond the pale

if your life has u being accused of killing kids and ur ok with it ........ so be it ......... i'm not ok with it

[T-Rexx]

"The best thing about the platform is that nobody cares about the platform."

I guess when you are a gay, Mormon, Republican, it is necessary to believe in fantasies.

[maxpowr9]

This, exactly. Some members don't want to hear or face the cold, hard consequences of a vote for this repulsive pair.

Again, this is why I'm voting for Johnson.

[Centexfarmer]

if calling out a "jews for hitler" poster who said it ............ and embraces it ............ is a personal attack ? it's a response to what i see as a personal attack

And here's where I take personal issue with; both as a member who posts in this forum, a volunteer who helps to moderate it, and someone who personally likes a respects you as a friend.

"Jews for Hitler" has been used in reference to Gays voting Republican FOR YEARS in CE&P!

As a member here for nearly the same amount of time as you, and you've been posting in this forum since 2005, I can't think of one time where you've ever gotten your dander up over that comment. Not ONCE!

Hell, even General Alfie called me a "moderate" Mod because I had made a comment that it wasn't fair to characterize "Gay Republicans" in such a manner.

In this case, and with all of the supporting evidence, facts, links, and information at our disposal (google), the member that you're most upset at for making the comment, MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE A POINT!



Please excuse the ^ "bobble head."

[Just_Believe18]

@maxpowr9
And you shouldn't be intimidated by some Romney voters here for "wasting your vote." If Obama said he was against homosexuals and would actively seek to stifle their rights, I would vote for a different candidate even if I agreed with Obama on everything else.


@chance1
I'm not in charge. It's just a helpful suggestion. People disagreeing with you or offering helpful suggestions are not trying to lord over you. Please calm down. I've already told you in this thread that I don't believe anyone is a Jew for Hitler. I don't agree with that statement. It doesn't make a valid point, nor does it open a dialogue with the person you called it to.

[White Eagle]

And the Hatred continues.

[MisterB]

Interesting watching some folks having a battle of wits with half-wits. Not fair...

[chance1]

@maxpowr9


@chance1
I'm not in charge. It's just a helpful suggestion. People disagreeing with you or offering helpful suggestions are not trying to lord over you. Please calm down. I've already told you in this thread that I don't believe anyone is a Jew for Hitler. I don't agree with that statement. It doesn't make a valid point, nor does it open a dialogue with the person you called it to.

have u ever heard anyone say "telling someone to calm down is the least likely thing to work on calming them down?"

now u have

i haven't seen the "helpful suggestions" u reference - feel free - i love help - frankly i'm a big believer in the "expert" thingy

so if a really well built guy at the gym is doing an exercise i ask him about it - he knows - more than me - he can help me - he's an expert - and i like talking to well built guys so it's frankly a bonus

in politics, there are no real experts - we listen (some more than others) we think - we make decisions on who we support and why

i take it very seriously - i don't take it lightly

i appreciate your "jews for hitler" is a no no - i do

i found your post about romney disturbing - not for your beliefs which are legit, understandable, admirable and well reasoned

but for what i saw as a veiled threat at those not in line

i am not in line

when a reasoned member of the progressive group takes what i believe to be an unreasoned approach, it throws me for a loop

that said, i will take your explanation as your real feelings on the matter and move on ......... calmly

[rareboy]

So apparently this is the hill.....

[Centexfarmer]

Hey!

Did I ever share with y'all my favorite "text msg?"

STFU!



It can be used as both a verb, and an adverb!

We can get into acronyms during the next thread.

[BostonPirate]

doesn't that mean "stroke the front udder" ?

[chance1]

Of course i'm not ok with it. But that kind of rhetoric, flung at me for being pro-abortion (but it wasn't this forum tho), is purely inflammatory. There is no truth in the fact except within their own narrow ideology, so it doesn't upset me so much that it irks.

In the jews for hitler analogy, this isn't simply a liberal vs republican thing, its about the gay thing, which effects us all. And when you are going to vote for a man who has made it known that gay people should NOT have the same rights, because of his RELIGIOUS beliefs, it strikes most other gay men as being, not to use the phrase, we shall try another one, 'wannabe battered housewives'.
'Oh, but he loves me....'

Gays voting for Romney is like that. I'd have a lot more respect for a gay guy voting for a 'right' candidate, if that candidate was decent. Romney is repugnant. So long as the republicans have a popular platform that treats gay rights as being secondary to straights, then most self respecting gay men WILL roll their eyes at gay republican voters. If you are politically to the right, then i expect you to vote right, but NOT as a gay man, with a bigotted representative. It'd be best all round if the party continued to lose elections until it figured out that it needs to seperate its conservative ideals, from its religious bigotry. Gays voting Romney are just helping to slow down the process of political change, thats how i see it.

hold the cheese

i am a self respecting gay man - you don't know me - you don't have to be an obama voter to be self respecting

that's the crux of the issue

and i don't need your respect but u shouldn't so narrowly define who u give respect to

thanks for sharing those tidbits which provides clarity

i now see why jews for hitler is ok with u

[Jack Springer]

Other than this being an obvious baiting thread towards a particular member, you've also engaged in personal commentary towards other members within just the last 48 hours. You just told people they're "going to hell." Damn, chance1. That's cold. I don't believe anyone is a Jew for Hitler, nor that they're going to hell for disagreeing with you. The difference though in reaction is that no one on this forum has made a "You're going to hell" thread about you.

You need to reread what you wrote in the other thread then man.

You went after people who don't agree with your choice for president by saying they were traitors. You don't even have to read to read between the lines to know what you feel towards me and others here.

I don't need your preaching. I don't need your moderating. I don't need your lecturing.

I am an adult as others here are -- we can make up our own minds about things.

[palbert]

...."Jews for Hitler" has been used in reference to Gays voting Republican FOR YEARS in CE&P!

As a member here for nearly the same amount of time as you, and you've been posting in this forum since 2005, I can't think of one time where you've ever gotten your dander up over that comment. Not ONCE!.....

Centex: By this logic racial epithets, many now not acceptable, would still be acceptable on JUB; that a very objectionable referemce -- if not challenged at every appearance -- is made acceptable in later discussions. I perhaps read the Additional Guidelines too stringently, but those are standards in Courtesy and Respect and were promulgated for a purpose, and allowing "J for H" violates every subparagraph.

The Guidelines attempt to elevate the discussion, not perpetuate insults and epithets.

I have a close fraternity brother of Latin background whom we affectionately nicknamed "Sp...k" I would never use that term today -- even now 45 years later --although JUB would appear to allow it. I find it no different than "J for H."

I have seen many a thread locked for a far lesser violation.

Maybe I just don't get it, but I was taught to argue otherwise.

[Telstra]

I like the name "mother Jones"
Who is she or he ? just found:

"Mary Harris "Mother" Jones was a very cool woman who fought for the underdog and made herself up to look way older than she was so that when she got beat down by Pinkerton agents, she'd gain public sympathy. Brilliant! That said, it's an odd name for a magazine. Our founders had originally wanted to call it New Dimensions (no comment), but when that name was taken, they pegged their ID to the radical reformer who'd been dubbed "the most dangerous woman in America." Too bad not many people actually know who she was. Self-congratulatory consultants always offer that we should rebrand, but that takes a lot of money, which we've decided to spend on the actual journalism instead. Besides, you'll find that it grows on you. (back to top)"

http://www.motherjones.com/about#01

[BostonPirate]

AND

I can disagree with everything Jack just said.

In fact I do disagree with it. Completely. This us versus them thing is coming back as we get closer to the election. Stating where the gay community is threatened is not a threat.

That's like saying that if you call the police its bad because it's a threat to the robber. No. I am not laying down silently as my rights get taken from me. I have and will go to jail in protest of that kind of crap.

You BET I will argue my position veraciously online or in any bar or on any corner of the nation. I have that right.

I get a say. You get a say. He gets a say.... you know the drill. You can say what you want. Anyone has the right to answer. If your only path to victory includes making your opponent stop saying something, then you are going in the CCCP direction.

[Centexfarmer]

Centex: By this logic racial epithets, many now not acceptable, would still be acceptable on JUB; that a very objectionable referemce -- if not challenged at every appearance -- is made acceptable in later discussions.

Now you're getting all "Lawyer" on me.

I perhaps read the Additional Guidelines too stringently, but those are standards in Courtesy and Respect and were promulgated for a purpose, and allowing "J for H" violates every subparagraph.

Well...when members of this thread want to split every hair of every word within the first sentence or two of that aspect of the CE&P PG, then HOWL foul because their interpretation differs, what's a Mod to do?

The Guidelines attempt to elevate the discussion, not perpetuate insults and epithets.

YES! But they're also not designed to thwart speech, or free expression, either.

I have a close fraternity brother of Latin background whom we affectionately nicknamed "Sp...k" I would never use that term today -- even now 45 years later --although JUB would appear to allow it. I find it no different than "J for H."

I have seen many a thread locked for a far lesser violation.

Maybe I just don't get it, but I was taught to argue otherwise.

So...are you suggesting that this thread be closed?

[chance1]

I did say 'most' did i not. That accomodated the fact that some are republican voters themselves.

I can't give respect where i don't think it is deserved.

Are you voting for Romney just because he is republican, or do you think he will make a great president? If it is the first, then you are turning a blind eye to gay rights, if it is the latter, you are helping to trample them.

I suspect it is the first, since there is more to government than just one man, but wouldn't you rather occupy a party, support a candidate that cares about you as a minority?? The GOP is a mess of a party, and in government, you can expect a mess.

it sounds like no answer is acceptable to u - and more than unacceptable

it would disqualify one from being respected

i have posted here a lot - my simple stupid (don't laugh) on romney vis a vis obama is this:

our economy is in very bad condition - i think Mitt gives us the best or only chance to climb out and UP - his history and focus on business in this election year is something i truly believe will serve us the best

w/o an economy with jobs - good jobs - not PT jobs - with growing industry - our foundation is weak

i find the class warfare waged by the progressives focused on 200k earners to be cynical and misguided

i struggle with mitt's flip flopping on gay rights but feel that he will govern as a moderate and frankly not be involved at all in social issues - as the economy is really priority 1-5

i was tempted not to respond because u don't seem open at all but decided wtf

[palbert]

@Centex: I do not define free speech as accusing someone of endorsing someone who murdered millions. It's as heinous a yelling fire in a crowded theater.

I suggest closure of the rancid Benghazi/election threads now open: you've read and know them. Let's start over. I am not alone in this sentiment.

"What's a MOD to do?:" Censure out of bounds commentary. Or, withdraw the Guidelines.

[Jack Springer]

The arrogance of anyone thinking they have the absolutely correct beliefs got me to thinking about how my father used to talk about an uncle who thought only people who went to his church went to heaven -- no one else because they did not believe the way they did.

This is the same type of hate and and narrow minded thinking I see my many of the posters recently in CEP -- maybe it's because of the end of a very long and hard fought campaign or maybe people are just showing their colors.

One thing I've noticed is that the more conservative people that chat here are more forgiving, more open minded, and not nearly as hateful as some of our more liberal posters.

Personally, I don't like the "hitler" comparisons for anything. It's time to make "hitler" a banned word on CEP -- if the other "ball" phrase can be banned -- why not "hitler".

Romney is not hitler. If he gets elected it will not be the end of the world -- life goes on. If Obama win -- the world will go on too.

I am not a traitor. I vote my conscience and for what I think is best for my overall well being and the good of the country. If you can't accept that, I'm not sure what to tell you.

[MassRuss]

All this talk of Hitler brings to mind a pet peeve or 2. My education is only thru high school, but history, especially 19th & 20th century history was always my favorite. The Rise & Fall of the Third Reich by William L Shirer was one of the first history books I read (I think I was 12 or 13). It was easy to read, since all the German words were translated by Shirer in the back. I also kept a dictionary handy, & discussed the war with my mom & maternal grandmother, who lived thru it. Also, my maternal great uncle was Will Durant, who wrote an 11 volume Story of Civilization from 1926 - 1975. I never met him, but maybe I inherited a gene or 2, LOL .

I'm hard pressed to understand how any sane person, American, German Russian or British can even entertain the thought of a political movement which even approaches thinking that Hitler had ANY redeeming qualities. I see these white supremicist fools with their swatstika tatoos (even gay porn stars!!), these crypto xtianists in Idaho who might as well have statues of Hitler instead of the Christ they pretend to worship. Did none of their parents fight this monster?

And the IDIOT tea partiers who turn pictures of Obama into Hitler. Damn idiots don't seem to realize that had Hitler won the war, AfriKa would be a slave continent.

I can kind of understand the "Jews for Hitler" metaphor. Back in the late 70s/early 80s, my BFF & I, although we lived in N NJ, always partied in NYC. Ice Palace 57, 12 West, Garage, Anvil, Mine Shaft, etc. In 79 we started @ Flamingo, then in 1980 The Saint. At the latter 2 discos, we met some moneyed queens who lived mostly on the upper East Side. Bankers, Literary Agents, executives. One Sunday AM, post Saint, we had brunch at one of their apartments. They were all boasting of how they were going to vote for Reagan because of their wallets. At the time, the anti gay Evangelical movement were backing Ronnie to the hilt. I asked how they could back a man who didn't even act as if he knew any gay people (I don't know where in Hollywood he lived!). They used the "he's not that bad", "he won't do anything against us". Very familiar to someone who had read of the "Good Germans" who voted for Hitler, while saying "he won't do those things (start wars, kill minorities), we can control him".

To a man, those guys I knew are all dead....AIDS....& St Reagan did NOTHING to help. Just ask Larry Kramer.

I don't think Ryan & Romney are evil like Hitler was, but they really don't care, about gays, women, minorities or seniors. When I see a member or those groups voting for them, I'm saddened. Voting AGAINST their own best interests/quality of life. That's where the Hitler metaphor comes in.

[palbert]

.....Personally, I don't like the "hitler" comparisons for anything. It's time to make "hitler" a banned word on CEP -- if the other "ball" phrase can be banned -- why not "hitler".....

Appreciate this comment.

[Centexfarmer]

hold the cheese

i am a self respecting gay man - you don't know me - you don't have to be an obama voter to be self respecting

that's the crux of the issue

and i don't need your respect but u shouldn't so narrowly define who u give respect to

thanks for sharing those tidbits which provides clarity

i now see why jews for hitler is ok with u

I'm just assuming that you've put me down into the "Jews for Hitler" column as being ok and are prepared to leave it at that.

While palbert, in this very thread encourages this discussion to:

The Guidelines attempt to elevate the discussion, not perpetuate insults and epithets.

How is this thread doing that?

It just exemplifies ego over discussion.

[Centexfarmer]

@Centex: I do not define free speech as accusing someone of endorsing someone who murdered millions. It's as heinous a yelling fire in a crowded theater.

I suggest closure of the rancid Benghazi/election threads now open: you've read and know them. Let's start over. I am not alone in this sentiment.

"What's a MOD to do?:" Censure out of bounds commentary. Or, withdraw the Guidelines.

Can't do that.

Who are you to decide what's out of bounds?

Take into consideration that part of the whole reason that CE&P exists is because these topics disrupt Hot Topics, their gif threads, and other "more important" topics that concern most gay men.

[chance1]

I AM trying to understand. For me, i couldn't vote for somebody knowing that their personal attitude is in conflict with my lifestyle. It requires a helluva lot of faith to take the approach that the social issues are likely to take a back seat, because politics is never just about the issues of the day, they include all sorts of small fry stuff. I just couldn't trust a man like Romney being in power. I don't think his business experience is such an advantage that i can forgive his lack of care about gay rights - my rights - our rights.

I focussed on an article in another thread, where a critic of Obama was explaining why Romney would be great for America, and some of things that were said seemed to be completely ignorant of the global economy. Its no good citing the current economic situation being bleak, simply because there isn't the right man for the job in office. The US economy relies just as much on other economies, and they're not looking too bright at the moment either. He may have some great ideas to encourage exports for example, but you can't force people to buy goods, especially if they can't afford them.

Essentially, the economy is just one factor, what happens when the economy is no longer an issue? What does Romney have to offer then, and what will he turn his attention to?

the economy is the single most important issue ...... the one that can elevate (or not) the lives of ALL:

whites
blacks
latinos
women
gays
etc.

ALL OF US

while it is "just one factor" it is the one factor that trumps all

romney was elected governor of the most liberal state in the U.S.

as a republican

how do you explain that?

i explain it as he is a moderate - that he would govern as a moderate

that my rights would not be lessened

that's what I think

as for assuming you and ok for jews for hitler - i assumed nothing - it seemed like with u anything goes - because someone called u a child killer, then somehow someone calling me a hitler voting jew was ok

bottom line and i will leave u with this

the reference "like jews for hitler" is hateful and should not be tolerated

[chance1]

The arrogance of anyone thinking they have the absolutely correct beliefs got me to thinking about how my father used to talk about an uncle who thought only people who went to his church went to heaven -- no one else because they did not believe the way they did.

This is the same type of hate and and narrow minded thinking I see my many of the posters recently in CEP -- maybe it's because of the end of a very long and hard fought campaign or maybe people are just showing their colors.

One thing I've noticed is that the more conservative people that chat here are more forgiving, more open minded, and not nearly as hateful as some of our more liberal posters.

Personally, I don't like the "hitler" comparisons for anything. It's time to make "hitler" a banned word on CEP -- if the other "ball" phrase can be banned -- why not "hitler".

Romney is not hitler. If he gets elected it will not be the end of the world -- life goes on. If Obama win -- the world will go on too.

I am not a traitor. I vote my conscience and for what I think is best for my overall well being and the good of the country. If you can't accept that, I'm not sure what to tell you.

yep - this

progressives twisted arms to get OBL banned yet jews for hitler is ok somehow

pretty fucking lame shit

[Jack Springer]

^^
Let the mod's do their job. Frankly I'm sick of all the self-appointed mod's in CEP.

... and I'm speaking from the position of someone who has felt the "wrath" of two.

[Jack Springer]

yep - this

progressives twisted arms to get OBL banned yet jews for hitler is ok somehow

pretty fucking lame shit

yeah ... it was AWKWARD. and UNCOMFORTABLE.

[TX-Beau]

Hello Peanut gallery!! I'm back!!!

Well Chance evidently the Romney that got elected in Mass was several iterations and about faces ago. Think Romney #29847562377 could still pull that off? How do you know what he's going to do? He changes his mind like every 1.3 seconds, and that's on his slow days.

Nope, you still look like you are simply in the anyone but Obama camp.

True? False? ...Only the shadow knows.....

You should say thank you to all the people that made this thread look like something other than personal spleen at a poster who got under your skin.

[chance1]

Hello Peanut gallery!! I'm back!!!

Well Chance evidently the Romney that got elected in Mass was several iterations and about faces ago. Think Romney #29847562377 could still pull that off? How do you know what he's going to do? He changes his mind like every 1.3 seconds, and that's on his slow days.

Nope, you still look like you are simply in the anyone but Obama camp.

True? False? ...Only the shadow knows.....

You should say thank you to all the people that made this thread look like something other than personal spleen at a poster who got under your skin.

nice to have u back

i hope your dr. drew visit went well

[ReadyWithReadyWit]

Romney is not hitler. If he gets elected it will not be the end of the world -- life goes on. If Obama win -- the world will go on too.

I am not a traitor. I vote my conscience and for what I think is best for my overall well being and the good of the country. If you can't accept that, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Well said, Jack. I obviously disagree with your views immensely, but I do not question that you nor other Romney supporters are doing any less than than voting your conscience. Even though we are all gay... we all have different circumstances, backgrounds, aspirations, and priorities.

In terms of the thread topic, language like "Jews for Hitler" is clearly over the line and does nothing to promote enlightening conversation in the forum... nor does a lot of the other over the top language that results from people letting their emotions get the best of them.

That being said, JB18's initial thread did resonate with a lot of people... including a lot of more "reasonable" people I might add... for a very good reason. Voting for a Romney/Ryan ticket is UNDENIABLY bad from a civil rights perspective for gay people (shockingly a pretty touchy subject on a gay forum)... and noone on either side seems to be disputing this fact... the dispute seems to be over whether other issues are more important. And some have taken offense to JB18's "we will remember" line, which, quite frankly, I do not see as that "threatening". But, still, I will attempt to phrase a similar point slightly differently. If you vote for Romney, I am far less concerned with you worrying about "me remembering" and more concerned with "you remembering". Now, granted, we are arguing about the future... which, naturally comes with uncertainty... even though the evidence seems to strongly suggests otherwise... perhaps a Romney/Ryan ticket won't be as bad (just bad) as some of us anticipate. But, in a hypothetical world where Romney wins and enacts legislation/appoints justices that indeed turn the clock back on gay rights... and our community suffers as a consequence, I would hope Romney supporters would say, "Gee... was that gamble really worth it?"

[TX-Beau]

Dr Drew is hot. I'd do him.

[palbert]

Can't do that.

Who are you to decide what's out of bounds?.....

Never said it was my decision. I just read the Guidelines, I hope correctly. If not, I'm wrong.

[Jack Springer]

Well said, Jack. I obviously disagree with your views immensely, but I do not question that you nor other Romney supporters are doing any less than than voting your conscience. Even though we are all gay... we all have different circumstances, backgrounds, aspirations, and priorities.

In terms of the thread topic, language like "Jews for Hitler" is clearly over the line and does nothing to promote enlightening conversation in the forum... nor does a lot of the other over the top language that results from people letting their emotions get the best of them.

That being said, JB18's initial thread did resonate with a lot of people... including a lot of more "reasonable" people I might add... for a very good reason. Voting for a Romney/Ryan ticket is UNDENIABLY bad from a civil rights perspective for gay people (shockingly a pretty touchy subject on a gay forum)... and noone on either side seems to be disputing this fact... the dispute seems to be over whether other issues are more important. And some have taken offense to JB18's "we will remember" line, which, quite frankly, I do not see as that "threatening". But, still, I will attempt to phrase a similar point slightly differently. If you vote for Romney, I am far less concerned with you worrying about "me remembering" and more concerned with "you remembering". Now, granted, we are arguing about the future... which, naturally comes with uncertainty... even though the evidence seems to strongly suggests otherwise... perhaps a Romney/Ryan ticket won't be as bad (just bad) as some of us anticipate. But, in a hypothetical world where Romney wins and enacts legislation/appoints justices that indeed turn the clock back on gay rights... and our community suffers as a consequence, I would hope Romney supporters would say, "Gee... was that gamble really worth it?"

I'm sure that being gay does not entirely describe who you are as a person. You are more than that.