The Debate Thread

[ReadyWithReadyWit]

it's over

romney destroyed him

Well, read through the thread... kinda threw out the "reasonable" platitudes for this thread, huh, chance? Got a wee bit excited...do we at least get an endorsement now?

[T-Rexx]

Problem was, it was "Massachusetts Mitt" up there, not the "Republican Romney" that the GOP picked. The TeaBaggers and Evangelicals aren't going to like that one bit.

Yeah, I noticed that, too. Romney completely backed off his previous emphasis of helping the rich get richer, and presented himself as some kind of champion of tax cuts for the middle class. He said not a word about keeping the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, one of his most insistent economic demands since his campaign began.

I thought it was a good message, but I imagined that the Republicans were squirming in their seats. This was the old, liberal Mitt, raising its ugly head again (and once again delivering yet another inconsistent message).

I hope the next debate has someone else as moderator. Dude totally lost control of the debate, and just let everyone go past the allotted time and speak over each other.

Agree again. Lehrer is a great newsman, but he totally lost control of this debate. He let Romney walk all over him, and handed Romney an advantage in so doing. Lehrer's job was to guide the discussion and enforce fairness. He did neither.

In formal debates, the speakers can see a clock which counts down their available time. They can see when time is running out, and wrap up their comments. They are not permitted to speak one second beyond their allotted time.

The bad news for Romney is that while he managed not to swallow his own tongue, he gave Obama a lot of ammo for next round, once FactCheck debunks 90% of what Romney said.

The problem for Obama (and Democrats generally) is that they focus on the message, not the delivery. Audiences invariably judge debates not on how reasonable is the message, but on the demeanor and apparent confidence of the debaters. Obama needs to focus on his presentation, not his message.

[Joshua_me]

Gads.

That was awful.

1) Jim Lehrer needs to retire. Hand him his hat and overcoat and "farewell" Harry and David deluxe fruit basket and call him a taxi. NO moderator worth his salt let's himself get "steamrolled" by the man standing behind the podium. I don't care WHO that man is... It was embarrassing.

2) They will be wearing fur coats in Hell tomorrow because Gov. Romney won this debate this evening, (Pains me as it does to say that...)

3) WHO exactly removed Obama's testicles before this event ? I realize it's your anniversary, Mr. President, but save a little jizz for AFTER the debate, could ya ? I've never seen the man look SO dejected. He had the affect of a 10 year-old whose older brother just pissed in his Count Chocula.

SO many missed opportunities. NO mention of that "lazy, no account" 47 percent of the population.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

Perhaps Obama is playing his cards close to his vest and is going to lay down an inside straight on the table when Romney least expects it. But, they're only a couple of rounds left and our country's fate hangs in the balance.

Color me officially worried at this point in the game.

[chrisrobin]

Didn't expect to see such ardent neocon support here. Is there no safe haven left on earth?

Yes there is. It's called the voting booth. Tell your friends.

[T-Rexx]

As usual, most of what Romney said was a lie, most of what Obama said was true.

Romney pays for initial success with first wave of fact checks.

Obama wins for truth - although I don't suppose anyone cares about that.

[FuryOfFirestorm]

Gads.

That was awful.

1) Jim Lehrer needs to retire. Hand him his hat and overcoat and "farewell" Harry and David deluxe fruit basket and call him a taxi. NO moderator worth his salt let's himself get "steamrolled" by the man standing behind the podium. I don't care WHO that man is... It was embarrassing.

2) They will be wearing fur coats in Hell tomorrow because Gov. Romney won this debate this evening, (Pains me as it does to say that...)

3) WHO exactly removed Obama's testicles before this event ? I realize it's your anniversary, Mr. President, but save a little jizz for AFTER the debate, could ya ? I've never seen the man look SO dejected. He had the affect of a 10 year-old whose older brother just pissed in his Count Chocula.

SO many missed opportunities. NO mention of that "lazy, no account" 47 percent of the population.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

Perhaps Obama is playing his cards close to his vest and is going to lay down an inside straight on the table when Romney least expects it. But, they're only a couple of rounds left and our country's fate hangs in the balance.

Color me officially worried at this point in the game.

It's pretty obvious by now that Obama doesn't show his hand too soon. If he was too aggressive with Romney, the GOP shills would spin it as "bullying" or even worse, "the negro is getting all uppity". Obama didn't have to do much other than stand back and let Romney spew one lie and contradiction after another.

Still, Barrack could have at least downed a Red Bull or 2 before hand and put a bit more pep in his debate.

[Constantine]

Yeah, I noticed that, too. Romney completely backed off his previous emphasis of helping the rich get richer, and presented himself as some kind of champion of tax cuts for the middle class. He said not a word about keeping the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, one of his most insistent economic demands since his campaign began.

I thought it was a good message, but I imagined that the Republicans were squirming in their seats. This was the old, liberal Mitt, raising its ugly head again (and once again delivering yet another inconsistent message).

Thank you! I thought I was watching two Democrats debate. LOL!

The problem for Obama (and Democrats generally) is that they focus on the message, not the delivery. Audiences invariably judge debates not on how reasonable is the message, but on the demeanor and apparent confidence of the debaters. Obama needs to focus on his presentation, not his message.

I think Romney's provided plenty of message for Democrats to use out on the campaign trail. He dropped the conservatives like a hot potato and revealed that Massachusetts moderate they've been suspicious of from the get-go. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's just not how today's conservatives roll. It'll be interesting to see how he transitions back into a "severe conservative".
I also get the impression that Romney kinda blew his wad on this debate. I just can't believe that the "47%" and "self-deport" comments will not come up in future debates, and by that time people won't remember the first debate. That could be where Obama and his team are hedging their bets. It's that last debate that's going to count, and Obama's taken Mitt's measure.

[Constantine]

As usual, most of what Romney said was a lie, most of what Obama said was true.

Romney pays for initial success with first wave of fact checks.

Obama wins for truth - although I don't suppose anyone cares about that.

Yeah, the man is an out and out liar. I guess his sons are, too (according to Mitt). Granted, he's probably lying about them, too, but I know apples don't fall far from the tree.

[evanrick]

Hmmmmm, just finished watching the debates on the Tube. While Obama could have done so much better, I wonder if his plan was to let Romney stick his foot in his mouth. Yes, Romney seemed more animated and aggressive, but I can't get over how tacky he came across as he fought with Jim Lehrer ( whowasted 3 minutes telling everybody they had 2 minutes left).
So I did my best to ignore all that hand waving Romney was doing and paid attention to what he was saying.

His whole economic plan, yes the plan he chastised non-partisan groups who gave him an F for arithmetic suddenly went out the window!
He's gonna replace Obamacare with. . . . .Obamacare? Huh?
He went on this spiel about lowering rates and cutting spending and providing no revenue. He'd just close loopholes and deductions without giving any specifics! Even if I were an overrated, knuckleheaded undecided voter, I'd still want to know what Romney is going to do.

I can't believe he flip-flopped in front of the whole nation!

Lmao. Well Im glad someone else picked up on this, Romney destroyed himself tonight. He did put his foot in his mouth, Obama did let himself get raped by Romney. Mitt just cant catch a break, and this debate will catch up to him, like every other dumb thing he has said in front of or behind an audience.

I can see it now, "Mitt we know you only tell the truth when your behind closed doors, how do we know your telling the truth now?"

[Constantine]

Perhaps Obama is playing his cards close to his vest and is going to lay down an inside straight on the table when Romney least expects it. But, they're only a couple of rounds left and our country's fate hangs in the balance.

Color me officially worried at this point in the game.

You're right about this. By the time the 3rd debate rolls around, no one will remember the 1st one. It's the 3rd debate they'll remember before going to the polls, so it's important not to blow your load on the first one. The fact checkers are raping Romney right now and it's going to provide fodder for all the people out stumping for Obama. At that third debate Obama better lower the boom on Romney when it comes to his stance on the 47%, gay marriage, tax cuts, women's rights, and immigration/self-deportation, as well as the needs of the middle class. I think that's their game plan. I could be wrong, though.

[archive]

Stroked my cock earlier

It was an ass kicking

By any measure

Even the fools at msnbc look depressed

The truth will set u free TX

Chance, we get it. And you won't get any complaints from me
However, if we are honest, one has to admit romney is playing fast and loose and Obama still has no fire. If I was an undecided voter and I asked what does Romney plan to do and how, could you tell me?

[chance1]

Well, read through the thread... kinda threw out the "reasonable" platitudes for this thread, huh, chance? Got a wee bit excited...do we at least get an endorsement now?

"It's over"

Meaning the debate is over

I watched on Dvr

[rareboy]

Didn't expect to see such ardent neocon support here. Is there no safe haven left on earth?

It is all about hating Obama more than loving the Republicans for some.

But don't begrudge Chance experiencing a tingle down his leg today.

He's been rabidly supporting Mitt for months now while playing coy about how he'll vote.

Today is like coming out for him.

[MystikWizard]

haha

he didn't "help" obama enough??

jesus

Breaking News from Chance .... "Mitt won the debate". As if you didn't hear that 10,000 times already on here. Who is really disagreeing with you on here that you feel the need to keep repeating it? From what I see, everyone basically is agreeing with you.

However, what is your reply above supposed to mean? Are you implying that I was saying that Lehrer "didn't help Obama enough"????

I was criticizing Lehrer for allowing Obama to speak over by 4 minutes.

[chance1]

Chance, we get it. And you won't get any complaints from me
However, if we are honest, one has to admit romney is playing fast and loose and Obama still has no fire. If I was an undecided voter and I asked what does Romney plan to do and how, could you tell me?

I was responding on the cock stroking not initiating

Ask TX

Btw - David "droopy dog" Axelrod is doing his standard

"What it appears you experienced did in fact not happen"

Mark Halperin said the Pres. Was dominated

People who watched ......: see that Mitt is strong, smart and isn't afraid to be Pres

Interested to see the "he's a liar" media inserts

As u recall And the overplayed "fact check" stuff

Clearly Obama needs more notes - more cue cards - more earpieces to hear then say rebuttals

2 more to go

So mitt doesn't have much time to celebrate

[Benvolio]

My impression is Obama was overconfident. The media polls, by exaggerating the probable Democrat turn out, have created the impression that Obama has it in the bag. Obama went into the debate thinking, the voters are with me, Romney's ideas are wrong, the whole debate is a waste of time. While Romney was talking, Obama was looking down and saying to himself, yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah. Let's get this over.
As you know, I have consistently predicted, not only a Romney win, but a landslide. His victory in the debate confirms my opinion, but I think a landslide was inevitable anyway.
Obama is in more trouble next time, talking about foreign policy.
But Ryan v Biden will be the most fun. With Biden, nothing is too outrageous and, backed into a corner, trying desperately to make up for Obama's loss, he will be at his most unpredictable. Gaffecity here we come.

[Jack Springer]

Poor Barry. He should have followed Biden's advice . . .

http://www.theonion.com/articles/bid...-debate,29785/

I do feel sorry for all those people in Chicago who had to stay up all night and scheme a response?

Will it be that Obama had the flu? or was suffering from a rare migraine?

[Jack Springer]

This is the best spin so far on Obama's loss last night . . . it was the oxygen level in Denver.

[CowboyBob]

Jim Lehrer did a terrible job. He allowed Romney to bully his way around the debate. Romney likes to be in control of the situation and like any spoiled child he's used to getting his own way.

The President should have taken the several opportunities to stand up to Mitt's lies but didn't.

[justdra]

I guess I didn't miss anything by not watching. I was watching my box set of Keeping Up Appearances, lol. And oh my goodness, i went to get my drivers license renewed today and damn, I thought I was applying for a loan, lol. I remember you just had to provide your old license and that was that. I had to have my SS card, birth certificate and 2 forms with my address on it, lol. I was like damn, I will have to come back later. Good thing my mother still had my certficate on her lock box, lol. I guess there is a downside to paying all your bill electronically, lol, I been rambling for anything from my insurance company, lol. I guess I have to go ask the landlord for an actual receipt.

[Kulindahr]

memorized?

jim lehrer is asking the questions

He's asking very predictable, softball questions -- so yes, memorized.

[Kulindahr]

The bilderberg group called Obama just before the debate and said " Let him back in"


Just a little conspiracy theory.

I think Obama will be out there with nuclear bombs and shotguns next time around.

When Obama gets asked how he feels about the next debate, he should reply, "No options are off the table".

[Kulindahr]

haha

he didn't "help" obama enough??

jesus

Now you're making stuff up in order to slam other people's posts -- truly sad.

[Kulindahr]

No, Romney was like that fast-talking used car salesman that won't get into any details, won't let you look under the hood, just bullies his way through the sale. That was very unpresidential. I was embarrassed to have the world see him. He could never be trusted to take on a powerful position.

Obama was off his game tonight, I grant that... I kept waiting and hoping for him to challenge one of Romney's outrageous lies, but he just wouldn't... disappointed in him tonight.

Not a bad description.

Obama did a terrible job tonight in the debate. He let Romney walk all over him, and missed so many opportunities to call out Romney on such glaringly obtuse contradictions to Romney's own campaign. And that closing statement? Awful. That's your 2 minutes you know to rehearse for. Shape up, Mr. President.

I could have done a better closing statement for him, off the top of my head.

Gads.

That was awful.

1) Jim Lehrer needs to retire. Hand him his hat and overcoat and "farewell" Harry and David deluxe fruit basket and call him a taxi. NO moderator worth his salt let's himself get "steamrolled" by the man standing behind the podium. I don't care WHO that man is... It was embarrassing.

2) They will be wearing fur coats in Hell tomorrow because Gov. Romney won this debate this evening, (Pains me as it does to say that...)

3) WHO exactly removed Obama's testicles before this event ?... I've never seen the man look SO dejected. He had the affect of a 10 year-old whose older brother just pissed in his Count Chocula.

SO many missed opportunities. NO mention of that "lazy, no account" 47 percent of the population.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

Perhaps Obama is playing his cards close to his vest and is going to lay down an inside straight on the table when Romney least expects it. But, they're only a couple of rounds left and our country's fate hangs in the balance.

I have a proposal for a new debate format: let Jon Stewart and Bill O'Reilly ask the questions.

They might get the candidates energized enough to get some blood flowing.

[ibill1]

Well, I am back after moving this past week and watched the debate tonight. Very good night for Romney. I know a lot of people were saying that Obama didn't do well tonight. I don't think it's that Obama did bad at all ... but rather just that Mitt certainly blew away expectations.

I think Obama is also saving his ammo though for the next debates ... so he ends strong and with KO blows as opposed to giving Romney and his team time to spin those talking points during the next few debates.

Romney shouldn't let his guard down going forward.

This. I think this was planned by the Obama campaign. Just sit back and let this guy spew all of his crap then come back in the next debates and make him fess up to all the bullshit he said.

[Kulindahr]

This. I think this was planned by the Obama campaign. Just sit back and let this guy spew all of his crap then come back in the next debates and make him fess up to all the bullshit he said.

Let's hope so.

I emailed the campaign (in response to a request for a donation) that the President ought to call Romney out on that 12 million job claim right off the bat in the next debate, regardless of format. There's not a reputable economist on the planet who thinks that can be done -- unless Romney wants to increase the deficit by a trillion a year to revive the CCC.

[Rolyo85]

Two points:

1. Romney won this debate, that's obvious. Obama was inert, and though he did manage to land a few punches, he largely left Romney to rampage free. I think he came underprepared and expecting Romney to just lie and make himself look stupid. Romney lied his ass off, but didn't appear stupid. I expect next debate to be better. Obama is a superb debater, he won't fail twice.

2. Romney did not "destroy" Obama. Truth is, the bump he will get from this is not going to be huge. By this point the only people who don't know who they're voting for, have either lived under a rock until now, or are complete and total morons. Anyone who would change their mind on who to vote for based on Romney's confident vagueness from last night clearly needs to stick to Jersey Shore and leave voting for the grown-ups...

[CowboyBob]

No, Romney was like that fast-talking used car salesman that won't get into any details, won't let you look under the hood, just bullies his way through the sale. That was very unpresidential. I was embarrassed to have the world see him. He could never be trusted to take on a powerful position.

A friend of mine phoned about an hour ago and this is the exact analogy I used in describing Romney's performance. I just now saw you posted it here. Glad to see someone else recognized it..... a fast talking used car salesman. When asked specifics about the car they don't respond to the question just go one talking about something else.

This. I think this was planned by the Obama campaign. Just sit back and let this guy spew all of his crap then come back in the next debates and make him fess up to all the bullshit he said.

I thought this also. President Obama sat back and allowed Mitt to make a fool of himself spewing out his lies. Allow Mitt to dig his own grave. The President realized the fact checkers would destroy him afterwards.

[bw92116]

Well, today Romney did release the specifics of his plan, and here they are:

[JayHawk]

short message from phone.

Romney 's new found positions will be used to box him in at later debates. perhaps it is strategic on Obama's part .

[CowboyBob]

Well, today Romney did release the specifics of his plan, and here they are:

That's the same information as his tax returns!

[palbert]

This initial to-and-fro is informative and rightly partisan. Has the Fat Lady been scheduled for the last debate? See ya 11/7.

[ReadyWithReadyWit]

Per my challenge to myself, I have refrained from watching any post-debate commentary- I even rmanaged to resist reading any posts in this thread before posting. So, time to make a complete ass of myself... I will amend this once I have the proper talking points...

I think overall the debate was kinda blah... I didn't see any "gotcha/a-ha" moment/implosion that is going to get serious airplay post-debate. I do think Romney was able to make this debate about Obama and his record. I think particularly early on, Romney came across better to truly undecided voters- obviously nothing major happened that is going to change minds. I do think Romney lost a little steam midway though when it became very apparent that he was still going to refuse to talk about the specifics of any of his policy changes; I loved how he completely pivoted dropping the tax/budget plan he has been promoting for the last year. I think the president's best moments were pointing out this recurring theme of no plans on the part of Romney. Though I disagree with his point/logic, I think Romney's most compelling line was about spending $90 billion on renewable energy that could have been spent on hiring two million teachers. I think Romney's position of still refusing to actually stand for anything specific helped him here as the president has an actual record and is not afforded the same luxury. And, finally, as I've said before, all Romney had to do to "win" was repeat ad naseum how bad the economy is- which he did.

Thus, overall, regarding the immediate effect of the debate on viewers at home, I think Romney had the slight advantage. However, in the longer term- once the media gets ahold of the fact the Romney still refuses to talk about "complicated" specifics and subequently presses him/ his capaign on this- I think it becomes closer to a wash.

Overall, I see Romney getting a 1-1.5% bounce in the national polls from this by the end of the week. Now time to turn on MSNBC and see what I got wrong.

Eh... I didn't do so bad without any help. I do think the damage is potentially slightly worse than my initial assessment only because it does set off the potential for a perfect storm scenario. If for example, the jobs report is worse than expected tomorrow, Mitt essentially gets two weeks of momentum... the VP debate should be fun... but isn't big news... unless Biden is allowed somehow to paint Ryan as the extreme nutjob he is with regards to women's rights/ social issues and his ridiculous budget... which, while Romney can run away from, he cannot (except by I suppose claiming Mitt is the presidential candidate and his views are meaningless).

I think Obama made two tremendous mistakes during the debate, the first which is kind of understandable, the second which is incomprehensible:
1.) The campaign misjudged that Romney would, in fact, still not only refuse to outline ANY of the details on ANYTHING (taxes, budget, health care, Dodd-Frank, etc.) , but would even backtrack on the sprinkling of minor details he has been campaigning on for the last 18 months. The ludicrousness of which left the president (and me) dumbfounded, but he never really called Romney out on this. I mean, how hard is it to say, "So, you've told us the magical good things about your plan, but not how it would actually be feasible. Would you hire someone who refused to provide such details? I guess we will just have to take your word on it- just like on your taxes..."
2.) The Obama campaign seemed tremendously overconcerned with hurting Obama's "likeability" ratios, which was an epic miscalculation... Obama is sly enough that he comes across as likeable even when throwing subtle jabs. Noone wanted him to be acerbic... but, I mean, something... He didn't have to bring up "zingers" on his own, but simply respond to Romney's nonsense with something for the soundbites... how is 47% mentioned not once when Romney starts railing about how much he loves the poor?

That being said, I stand by my statement that no major lasting "sound bite" was created. Obama had the potentially strong but underplayed "Romney's plan is suddenly 'nevermind'" and Romney's most memorable sound bite was about Big Bird. Thus, there was no knockout blow, but Romney clearly won the stylistic battle on points throughout. The Obama campaign will be able to mitigate some of the damage in "fact checks" of Romney's nonsense... assuming the jobs report is not horrendous... but certainly not all of it. Unfortunately, a debate is about style not substance... and, as we joked about in another thread, most undecideds aren't exactly "high information" voters...

[Benvolio]

All the babble about Romney's lack of specificity overlooks that Obama's only plan for the economy is more "tax the rich". And quibling about the accuracy of each others statistics will not win votes. It is just quibbling. Calling everything Romney says a lie is just partisan sqwabbling, which the public does not want to hear.
Next he has to face the public over his failed foreign policy. It will not be a pretty picture.

[MisterMajestic]

Romney came to Fight last night and Obama came with the Facts....For Style & Performance Romney gets an A+ and the Crown...Obama gets an F- for taking the Nice President route and letting Romney dance all over that stage....

The main thing I took away from last night's debate is that Romney will say ANYTHING to become President. I believe he'd sell out Ann and his children to accomplish the one thing his Dad could not....

And I know The Donald was tickled to Death that the President said his name...

[Benvolio]

Obama has botched the Afghanistan war by continuing it but announcing in advance the date upon which we will lose and the Taliban will win in2014. Failed to protect the Lybian embassy and has lied, lied, about what happened, and it continues. Abandoned Israel and cozzied up to the Muslims. He has dithered about Iran, giving it time to both build its bomb, but its missles and other forces as well. Obama cannot even mention Romney's honest ndoubts about the olympics without seeming very silly. It was and is trivial compared to Obama's failures.
Romney has no foreign polocy he needs to defend. Obama has a policy he cannot defend.

[AngolaZee]

Didn't expect to see such ardent neocon support here. Is there no safe haven left on earth?

lol we've been infiltrated, i'm sure his account has been hacked

[Sammie13]

Random Observations:

You knew it was going to be a stange night when the evening started with Mitt Romney firing Jim Lehrer ("Jim. I like you, but your'e fired"). Maybe that's what threw Jim off his game.

Even more bizarre is Al Gore blaming Obama's lack of a pulse on the high altitude. SIGH

Amazing that John Kerry played the role this week in practice as Romney. Obama clearly misunderstood the class assignment because he came out acting LIKE the boring Kerry of '04.

I vote for Bill Clinton to play Romney in future rehearsals. He would be good at that, and fire up Obama...maybe. There were a few times last night, especially when Obama was mumbling stuff about his healthcare plan, that I wished he'd invite Bill to come on stage to explain it for people. Clinton is far better at discussing the advantages of ObamaCare than it's author.

Romney was a damn good Democrat last night. Reminds of of a group of friends in '96 who said after the debate that Clinton was a better Repub that night than Dole. A good debate performance (not necessarily substance) can really move the dial. Romney never got ideaological, but talked in vague terms that seemed true enough on issues that people could relate.

Frustrating to see Obama defending positions today that he was rather muted on last night. Reminds me of a kid who is insulted at school and has to wait overnight to come up with a good followup attack. Kinda loses its impact.

I think Obama will come storming back in the remaining debates.

[MisterMajestic]

Frustrating to see Obama defending positions today that he was rather muted on last night. Reminds me of a kid who is insulted at school and has to wait overnight to come up with a good followup attack. Kinda loses its impact..

Good grief....Oh stop with the over-kill...Obama had rallies PLANNED after the debate and you would be complaining if he didnt address the debate to the crowds this afternoon....

Again, ANY initial succes Romney had will turn into a loss after his lies are exposed in television ads people watch far more frequently. Debates have a marginal impact on poll ratings.

Most Americans do not have cable. You know Cable news is where you get the goods for all things politics... That's why you do have to show up to the Presidential debates ready for ANYTHING and everything....

Let's hope MOSt of those 58-million viewers from last night watch the next debates...

[MisterMajestic]

You're not living in The States if you think these Debates only have a marginal impact to people that havent voted. Perception is reality to a lot of voters...

[chance1]

Chris Matthews on Hardball is finishing up his show by saying

Romney killed Obama
Obama was unprepared
Mitt was great

"it pains me to say it" he said

OMG Ed Schultz is doing a "postgame news conference" sorta Rex Ryan esque - defending his (players) Obama

this is awful schtick

[AngolaZee]

Funny how we are all trying to differentiate between 2 sides when they are both under the thumb of corporates. We have a false sense of freedom and choice. After the elections it is back to business as usual, corporates given free reign on tax avoidance, outshoring jobs, different forms of kickbacks, too big to fail. How can we be a democracy when Congress can be lobbied by the likes of AIPAC, NRA into taking stances that the majority of the country's citizens would not agree with. A "war on drugs" which has ulterior motives. At least the Republicans make it clear they are not interested in serving the average Joe. American corporates run rough-shod over 3rd world countries dumping heavily subsidized goods on them. This ensures that those countries will never develop the means to be competitive in a global environment while enriching corporates via our tax dollars. Foreign Aid is used for maintaining hegemony rather a genuine interest in creating self-sufficient allies and trading partners

Noam Chomsky has long ago demonstrated who really calls the shots in this country. Same shit, different party

[chance1]

Charles K says that Romney had the highest negatives of any challenger in 3 decades

when they collide with reality (the debate)

CBS poll - 56% said their opinion of Romney had risen

before he was Gordon Gecko

now he's tough, reasonable and respectful

that Obama's negative ads were dissolved and turned to dust

Why didn't BO mention the 47% ??? possible explanation is that he was so far ahead, he was sitting on the lead - didn't want to appear "mean"

in ohio obama has 2x the spend and in florida as well

in virginia 60% more

romney will be able to raise more money now

and obama's attack ads will be neutered

interesting points IMO

[AngolaZee]

It is crucial that a 3rd party is established to keep the other parties true to their constituents

[Benvolio]

It is crucial that a 3rd party is established to keep the other parties true to their constituents

Third parties have never worked in the US because they are counter productive. They inevitably result in the major party least acceptable to the third party voters, being elected. Nader drained Democrat votes away from the Democrat party, putting Bush in power. Perot appealed to Republicans and Libertarians, but put Clinton into power. Teddy Roosevelt drew split the Republicans, putting Wilson into power. In 1860, the Democrats split, North and South, allowing the Republican, Lincoln, to be elected. That contrary effect is inevitable in our system and it would take major Constitutional changes to make it otherwise.

[AngolaZee]

Wow A Harvard professor on CNN just confirmed that extensive research shows it is very risky for black men to show aggression as it feeds into stereotypes which result in the viewer at home saying "See". Hence why Obama can not afford to be seen as such. Makes it seem unlikely Obama will be going after Romney on future debates.

[Sammie13]

Good grief....Oh stop with the over-kill...Obama had rallies PLANNED after the debate and you would be complaining if he didnt address the debate to the crowds this afternoon....

I didn't say the rallies weren't already planned. I said it was frustrating to see all the cute little comebacks and zingers today when we should have seen at least a few last night. The spontaneity is gone now....those comebacks are less clever now cause his staff had all night to work on them.

[Benvolio]

Wow A Harvard professor on CNN just confirmed that extensive research shows it is very risky for black men to show aggression as it feeds into stereotypes which result in the viewer at home saying "See". Hence why Obama can not afford to be seen as such. Makes it seem unlikely Obama will be going after Romney on future debates.

I doubt if that is true, but if so, it is exacerbated by Obama's history of being anti-white. Remember his recent 2007 video rant about New Orleans, and his 20 year history in Rev Wright's anti-white church; his constant harangues against the rich--read whites--who pay all the taxes, but not yet their share.

[Spiff]

I would be interested in hearing Bill Clinton's opinion of last night. Surely he must be a bit disappointed that his huge favor he did for BO at the convention was answered by a lackluster debate. Of course Bill and BO are two different types of people, but BO could have used a bit more of Slick's magic last night. With all of Mitt's lies, Bill would thrown Mitt's "brass" right back at his face.

[Spiff]

Wow A Harvard professor on CNN just confirmed that extensive research shows it is very risky for black men to show aggression as it feeds into stereotypes which result in the viewer at home saying "See". Hence why Obama can not afford to be seen as such. Makes it seem unlikely Obama will be going after Romney on future debates.

It isn't that he needs to be more "aggressive". He just needs to be less passive. His spokespeople have been saying he wanted last night to be a "conversation" with the nation. That was the main problem. It was a debate with an opposing candidate, not a conversation with a nation. He needed to debate as if his job relied on it, because it does.