Supernatural / Jensen Ackles / Jared Padelecki [merged]

[neoachilles]

Tonight was the season premiere of Supernatural, and I loved it. Even though it wasn't as action packed as previous episodes, I still thought it was fantastic. And, in the ongoing battle for the title of hotter Winchester, tonight, Jensen Ackles has taken the lead. But don't worry, Jared, I still love you.

[falconfan]

BACK WITH A VENGENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOVED it. Kripke said that he'd never seen a group of writers so anxious and excited to write as his were this season and I totally believe him. They set up an amazing dynamic. I'd have so much fun playing around in that world.

[bluehorizon]

My favorite show! Thanks for the pics

[StlKj]

Taken the lead? Um, Jensen has been in the lead since day one.

Sam might be pretty, but Dean's the one who qualifies as "hottie."

Jesus, I just turned into a twelve year old girl.

[falconfan]

Taken the lead? Um, Jensen has been in the lead since day one.

Sam might be pretty, but Dean's the one who qualifies as "hottie."

Jesus, I just turned into a twelve year old girl.

I personally LOVE the character of Dean more than anything but he has long been a supporting character in a series that followed Sam's arc and overriding identity crisis. The premier elevates Dean to a level where he is relevant and not just relevant BECAUSE he's close to Sam and allows the series to come together to be about THEM and their respective journey's and dependence on each other. The seasons go back on forth (2 focusing on Sam primariyl and 3 focusing on Dean). It's brilliant

[neoachilles]

^^Yeah, it's not just Dean having to look out for baby brother Sammy, anymore. But this angle they have going on now is rather interesting. Sam is being guided in the use of his powers (p.s.--how awesome was it to see Sam exorcise that demon with just his mind?) by the demon Ruby; and Dean has been liberated from hell by the Angel Castiel. Are they gonna have the brothers go toe to toe--one on the side of heaven, the other the champion of hell?

[StlKj]

I vote that in episode 3, they discover Nik2, their long lost brother, at a haunted college campus. He could be Ellen's son by John--she sent him away so that he would not be wrapped up in "the business."

The show needs a hot bisexual brother.

[falconfan]

^^Yeah, it's not just Dean having to look out for baby brother Sammy, anymore. But this angle they have going on now is rather interesting. Sam is being guided in the use of his powers (p.s.--how awesome was it to see Sam exorcise that demon with just his mind?) by the demon Ruby; and Dean has been liberated from hell by the Angel Castiel. Are they gonna have the brothers go toe to toe--one on the side of heaven, the other the champion of hell?

Precisely they're angling them to lead opposite sides and at the same time they're keeping them together by their intrinsic brotherly bond and more importantly they're both lying to each other. Sam more implicitly than Dean. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that Ruby is back

[harry5]

arent u forgetting the hot angel? misha collins



i wish they would have brought the original ruby back, i liked her better, stupid budget problems!

[aijalon18]

This was prolly the best Season Premiere so far this season. Everything was so unexpected but turned out perfectly. I loved the funny little nod to Wincest fans when Sam and Dean reunite. I do like Katie Cassidy better as Ruby but it makes sense that she had to get a new body because of all the damage to the old one. It sucks that the budget is always getting cut it seems like there are so many fans of this show and they are hardcore. Seems like CW puts all their eggs in stupid Gossip Girl.

[willsboy84]

Precisely they're angling them to lead opposite sides and at the same time they're keeping them together by their intrinsic brotherly bond and more importantly they're both lying to each other. Sam more implicitly than Dean. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that Ruby is back

HELLS YEAH!!! dropped my bowl when he said her name. still wish Katie had the role though. i swear to God this show is the best on tv right now...you can't help but get pulled into it. next week's episode looks pretty sweet. it'd be even better if Bela showed up....LOVED that girl!!! Jensen's looking hot as ever. someone's been hittin' the gym. Jared's always hot too but, his ginormous forehead kinda creeped me out last night.

[falconfan]

You know I was really not a fan of Katie for most of Season 3 but she did a hella job in Malleus Maleficarum and No Rest For The Wicked and it was like GREAT kill her off just when I start to like her!

As for Bela she would've been a good recurring character but was forced too heavily on the show. Kripke never intended to use her but for 2 or 3 episodes but the CW execs wanted a second female regular so they forced her in quite a few places. I doubt she'll be back in any form.

[alley]

Taken the lead? Um, Jensen has been in the lead since day one.

Sam might be pretty, but Dean's the one who qualifies as "hottie."

Jesus, I just turned into a twelve year old girl.

Deanie is way pretty, but I prefer a manly lookin' man---And Sammy is one fine lookin' man---*heavy sigh*

[willsboy84]

It was actually a pretty decent premiere. To be honest I was hoping for at least one episode without Dean, but I knew they were going to cop-out and bring him back right away.

The story looks interesting and I like that they introduced the Seraphim right away instead of wasting half a season leaving us guessing as to what it is.

The one thing I didn't like was the new actress playin Ruby. She's just bad.

an episode without Dean?! dude...why would you say something like that? you know what? Begone...

just kidding. that was a pretty twisted thing of you to say though

[falconfan]

The show relies too heavily on the same dynamic (although they do seem to be turning it around a little this season). An episode about Sam after Dean's death would have shaken things up a bit.

I'm hoping for a flashback along the way to fill in the 4 month gap.

You just can't have one of the characters absent in a show where there are only TWO main characters. In say Buffy they had the supporting cast to hold up episodes without Buffy but that's just not the nature of a show like Supernatural.

Also I always refer to Supernatural as "A Long Days Journey Into Night" meets "The Ghostbusters." Sup shares the same semi-cyclical dynamic as Long Days (The families recurring problem with vengance, Sam's inability to escape his innately evil tendencies, Dean's inability to ever see himself as more than just an extension of his family, etc) but in BOTH Long Days and Supernatural these problems aren't portrayed in repetitive ways but in realistic problems and pitfalls the family dynamic forces the characters into. Much like how Dean clearly identified that Sam was his weakness and that they need to stop reacting so radically when it comes to their safety (No Rest For The Wicked) but his deep emotional response prevent him from acting on the logical identification of his problem. It's really a wonderful dynamic. They nail the family issue down incredibly well. I once heard someone say that if the metaphorical idea of Buffy is that Highschool is Hell than that of Supernatural is that Family is Hell.

[StlKj]

The show relies too heavily on the same dynamic (although they do seem to be turning it around a little this season). An episode about Sam after Dean's death would have shaken things up a bit.

I'm hoping for a flashback along the way to fill in the 4 month gap.

We will definitely be getting an upcoming episode where Dean starts experiencing some more flashbacks of his time in Hell. Sera Gamble, a writer and producer of the show, confirms as much in this article at newsarama:


http://newsarama.com/tv/080917-supernatural-gamble.html

[snapcat]

Great premiere, but I don't like the new Ruby, either.

[StlKj]

Great premiere, but I don't like the new Ruby, either.

They just don't seem to be really good at casting strong, young, attractive females who hang around. The pyschic actress made an instant impression--she had spunk and fire (no pun intended), but alas, we probably won't be seeing her again.

Of course, she won't be seeing her again either.

[falconfan]

For the most part I usually don't like the women characters in Supernatural. I don't know why, but the writers seem incapable of creating decent female characters, and they rarely keep any of them around long enough to let them develop.

I thought they did really well with Ellen, and I loved Meg too (although she was a demon). They need better recurring females.

It's because Ellen, Meg, and Ruby were the only organic recurring females. Both Bela and Jo were forced upon them by network demands and it shows. Samantha Ferris (who portrays Ellen) actually wrote a blog on her official website about how she was very disappointed that she wasn't going to be in season 3 because the network wants young, hot girls.

Also I LOVED LOVED LOVED Loretta Devine as psychic Missouri Mosely in "Home" (Season 1). I was so sure that they were setting her up to be a recurring regular I don't know why they didn't bring her back but my suspicion is it might have to do with Mrs. Devine's busy availabilty because Lord knows she's in everything.

[aijalon18]

Yea the female characters are pretty rotten. The girl who used to be Harmony on Buffy was ok and the cougar who turned out to be a werewolf that Sam fucked that time was good as well. It's like they try to make every girl be over the top sexy and not just a normal girl who happens to be sexy.

I like Sam better than Dean because Dean's personality makes him unnattractive. He always calls every female demon a bitch and a whore and goes out of his way to degrade them sexually. Like when he slapped that girl demon last night then tossed money in her face like she was a hooker. He always does shit like that. I know this isnt the
PC police but it is so offputting to see him act like that all the time. But that being said i do love both actors' acting.

[falconfan]

Yea the female characters are pretty rotten. The girl who used to be Harmony on Buffy was ok and the cougar who turned out to be a werewolf that Sam fucked that time was good as well. It's like they try to make every girl be over the top sexy and not just a normal girl who happens to be sexy.

I like Sam better than Dean because Dean's personality makes him unnattractive. He always calls every female demon a bitch and a whore and goes out of his way to degrade them sexually. Like when he slapped that girl demon last night then tossed money in her face like she was a hooker. He always does shit like that. I know this isnt the
PC police but it is so offputting to see him act like that all the time. But that being said i do love both actors' acting.

Ummmm.... Meg, Bela and Ruby ARE bitches. Dean has never used the term bitch to refer to Jo, Ellen or any of the one epsiode females. Dean uses the term bitch a lot including when he talk about SAM and assorted mythical creatures. Bitch is a term that can air on TV unlike some other colorful derogatory terms and my writers instinct tells me that may have a lot to do with it's frequent appearance in the Supernatural lexicon. You'll see in "Ghostfacers" Dean was frequently "bleeped" which hints to me that's what his voice sounds like in the writers' heads and they must than adjust to FCC standards.

Also I think one of the most intriguing things about the character of Dean is his background. This was a character that grew up with NO female in his life. Period. He was raised by a angry marine on a mission to avenge his wife. Dean in EVERY way shows that he deifies woman because of his mother. He holds a very old time view of women as being gentle, delicate, and in need of protection. And almost all the damsels in distress in season one serve as manifestations of Mary (often being blonde with long hair). If you pay close attention you'll see that the character often shows many old time ideals of chivalry (He held the door for Missouri for instances). He refused to let Ruby sacrafice the life of the innocent virgin in "Jus in Bello" (though the likely wouldn't have sacraficed a man either). Yet it's cleary that he has an innate belief in female fragility as evidenced by the attitude he showed when first meeting Jo in "Everybody Loves A Clown."

There's also the issue of sex and Dean. Despite Dean's deification of women there's a clear degree of objectification in it as well. Sex is not something he's shy about nor is he shy about making remarks about hot women. That being said Dean never did (nor COULD he ever) have a normal healthy relationship with a woman. The only girl he was only honest with was scared off by his real life (Route 666). And even when he has a one ngiht stand with a woman it's not devoid of emotion (The Kids Are Allright).

In the end I think it's undeniable that Dean has a very old fashioned view of women, which springs from the macho world he was raised in and the fact the only female figure in his life was an idolized image of his long dead mother (who may not have really been all that angelic in reality). But the fact in my book his undeniable compassion, altruism, and selflessness far out weights the fact he A. Feels the need to inordinately protect women and B. Uses the term bitch frequently.

[aijalon18]

OK I might get a little crazy psychoanalytical here but let me just say that there is a reason he is pissed off at demons. They killed his mother and father. And his brother kinda is one. So instead of taking his frustration out on Sam he takes it out on the "bad" demons.

But I don't feel that he is biased when it comes to their gender. It is actually a testament to his character that he doesn't hold back just because a demon is in a female body. Sam is more understanding because he feels like one of them.

Dean is just angry in general. And he takes that anger out on anything they have deemed "bad." That includes the female demons.

I know the whole story. I've been a fan since the beginning. But he seems especially nasty to the female demons. Like I said tossing the money in her face and slapping her. He would never do that to a man. And constantly calling them bitches, sluts, and whores, he doesnt call the male demons names all the time. Even with Ruby she'd do nothing and he'd punch her in the face and call her a bitch. I think his character is supposed to be a douchey pig on purpose. If he's not abusing the female demons, he's trying to fuck every female human he sees. He's always breaking his neck about to crash a car in order to look at some girl's ass. Then he's always calling Sam a girl or implying that he's gay just because Sam isnt some kind of pussyhound.

[StlKj]

Post #26--falconfan hit it right on the head.

[falconfan]

I know the whole story. I've been a fan since the beginning. But he seems especially nasty to the female demons. Like I said tossing the money in her face and slapping her. He would never do that to a man. And constantly calling them bitches, sluts, and whores, he doesnt call the male demons names all the time. Even with Ruby she'd do nothing and he'd punch her in the face and call her a bitch. I think his character is supposed to be a douchey pig on purpose. If he's not abusing the female demons, he's trying to fuck every female human he sees. He's always breaking his neck about to crash a car in order to look at some girl's ass. Then he's always calling Sam a girl or implying that he's gay just because Sam isnt some kind of pussyhound.

Sam would've straight up punched a male demon in the face and he still would've tossed the money on the table. His treatment of demons is only highlighted because almost all the demons ARE female.

He is overly sexual and has an old time view of male and female roles however. None the less he's a man who's always willing to give his life for others, to suffer incredibly for the sake of justice. He's an extremely intriguing character and they've done a lovely job of positioning him up to this point.

[aijalon18]

Ummmm.... Meg, Bela and Ruby ARE bitches. Dean has never used the term bitch to refer to Jo, Ellen or any of the one epsiode females. Dean uses the term bitch a lot including when he talk about SAM and assorted mythical creatures. Bitch is a term that can air on TV unlike some other colorful derogatory terms and my writers instinct tells me that may have a lot to do with it's frequent appearance in the Supernatural lexicon. You'll see in "Ghostfacers" Dean was frequently "bleeped" which hints to me that's what his voice sounds like in the writers' heads and they must than adjust to FCC standards.

Also I think one of the most intriguing things about the character of Dean is his background. This was a character that grew up with NO female in his life. Period. He was raised by a angry marine on a mission to avenge his wife. Dean in EVERY way shows that he deifies woman because of his mother. He holds a very old time view of women as being gentle, delicate, and in need of protection. And almost all the damsels in distress in season one serve as manifestations of Mary (often being blonde with long hair). If you pay close attention you'll see that the character often shows many old time ideals of chivalry (He held the door for Missouri for instances). He refused to let Ruby sacrafice the life of the innocent virgin in "Jus in Bello" (though the likely wouldn't have sacraficed a man either). Yet it's cleary that he has an innate belief in female fragility as evidenced by the attitude he showed when first meeting Jo in "Everybody Loves A Clown."

There's also the issue of sex and Dean. Despite Dean's deification of women there's a clear degree of objectification in it as well. Sex is not something he's shy about nor is he shy about making remarks about hot women. That being said Dean never did (nor COULD he ever) have a normal healthy relationship with a woman. The only girl he was only honest with was scared off by his real life (Route 666). And even when he has a one ngiht stand with a woman it's not devoid of emotion (The Kids Are Allright).

In the end I think it's undeniable that Dean has a very old fashioned view of women, which springs from the macho world he was raised in and the fact the only female figure in his life was an idolized image of his long dead mother (who may not have really been all that angelic in reality). But the fact in my book his undeniable compassion, altruism, and selflessness far out weights the fact he A. Feels the need to inordinately protect women and B. Uses the term bitch frequently.

Ruby was never a bitch. She was always trying to help them both. But there's really no need to defend the character. That's who he is. There's no need make excuses. If that's the case, we can defend every guy who is a sexist pig. I'm sure if you dig deep they all have issues. Then you have to excuse all bad behavior.

[falconfan]

Post #26--falconfan hit it right on the head.

Why thank you

[aijalon18]

Why

Oh god. I never noticed your avatar. I'm not even gonna debate. We're neevr gonna see eye to eye and we dont have to. At the end of the day. I love the show. I love Sam. My disliking Dean will not discourage me from watching or encouraging others to watch.

[falconfan]

Ruby was never a bitch. She was always trying to help them both. But there's really no need to defend the character. That's who he is. There's no need make excuses. If that's the case, we can defend every guy who is a sexist pig. I'm sure if you dig deep they all have issues. Then you have to excuse all bad behavior.

Of course EVERYONE has issues that shape their behavior. I'm not "making excuses." I'm looking at his overall character and you're talking about a man who's literally devoted his life to saving people. He most often bonds with young mothers (Dead in The Water, Home, Playthings, and The Kids Are All Right) and I think it's a logical extension of his deification of mothers and motherhood if not the female form as a whole. He's clearly a very compassionate person who on multiple occasions has risked his life for no reason other than the sense it's his duty to help people and easy the pain of others. I can't dislike that. I don't expect anyone to be perfect and flawed characters are only more realistic, dynamic, and interesting.

And Ruby is obviously being positioned as the evil seductress and there's been a hint of it since day one. She's (IMO) a power hungry manipulative demon who is taking advantage of Sam's trusting nature and emotional baggage to propel herself to the top of the heap by pulling Sam further down the dark path.

Dean was always suspicious of Ruby because she was a demon. That seems relatively reasonable to me.

[falconfan]

BTB I like what they are doing with Dean this season. Him being brought back by "God."

How's that for putting a character in his most uncomfortable place.

It's a wonderful dynamic with Sam's trusting nature making it hard for him to deal with the possibility that forces of darkness may be courting him and Dean's cynical nature making it hard for him to deal with the possibility forces of light might be courting him.

[StlKj]

BTB I like what they are doing with Dean this season. Him being brought back by "God."

How's that for putting a character in his most uncomfortable place.

I'm with you, Babe. I love that the one who is always concerned with saving someone else, now has to deal with the fact that someone feels he's worth saving--and it's someone he doesn't even believe exists.

One of the things I love about this show, and falconfan pointed it out beautifully above, is that there is a psychology behind these characters. Their lives up to this point are what make them who they are. Many other shows would not have taken the time to explore how these two characters evolved based on their damaged pasts. They would have just layered their personalities over the back story. In Supernatural, it's embedded into the characters--they each have a core from which they operate, and it makes sense as to how that core has formed.

[JMinhK]

I thought I was one of the few gay Supernatural fanatics out there. I've read the tie-in books and the Supernatural magazine, have all 3 seasons on DVD, and just generally obsess over the show. It's my favorite, and not just because Jensen Ackles is sexy as hell. When he lifted his shirt in the season premiere, I thought I had died and gone to heaven. This man is beautiful!

[StlKj]

I thought I was one of the few gay Supernatural fanatics out there. I've read the tie-in books and the Supernatural magazine, have all 3 seasons on DVD, and just generally obsess over the show. It's my favorite, and not just because Jensen Ackles is sexy as hell. When he lifted his shirt in the season premiere, I thought I had died and gone to heaven. This man is beautiful!

One of the best gratuitous shots of the past few years of a male actor is the one in season one where Dean is laying on the hotel bed, and they pan up his legs and over his nice, boxer-brief covered booty.

[falconfan]

I'm with you, Babe. I love that the one who is always concerned with saving someone else, now has to deal with the fact that someone feels he's worth saving--and it's someone he doesn't even believe exists.

One of the things I love about this show, and falconfan pointed it out beautifully above, is that there is a psychology behind these characters. Their lives up to this point are what make them who they are. Many other shows would not have taken the time to explore how these two characters evolved based on their damaged pasts. They would have just layered their personalities over the back story. In Supernatural, it's embedded into the characters--they each have a core from which they operate, and it makes sense as to how that core has formed.

Yeah well I really think that having only two leads allowed the writers to reach depths of these characters that few other shows ever reach. I mean we know every one of these boys most minute idiosyncracies from Sam's fear of clowns to Dean's distaste for Bon Jovi.

[LiquidSky]

Great episode!

[willsboy84]

Yeah well I really think that having only two leads allowed the writers to reach depths of these characters that few other shows ever reach. I mean we know every one of these boys most minute idiosyncracies from Sam's fear of clowns to Dean's distaste for Bon Jovi.

or that if he's not hunting, you'll more than likely find Dean either stuffing his face or stroking to "Busty Asian Beauties"

any word on whether John Winchester will be making an appearance this season?
and does anybody else think Gordon could've made for an awesome recurring nemesis?

[aijalon18]

I think last night's episode kinda blew. One of the most boring episodes ever imo. Of all the people who couldnt be saved Meg and henrikson? Not feeling this god versus lucifer business either. Supernatural and Buffy are very different shows but one thing I always loved about Buffy was they didnt make any real Christian references. The Supernatural writers are going down a dangerous road imo.

[neoachilles]

Personally, I have no problem with the whole heaven vs. hell angle. I was kinda hoping for it actually. The moment I first heard Lilith's name mentioned, I knew they were going to work Lucifer into the storyline somehow. I'm glad they're not shying away from the subject--the writers aren't writing for the sake of the bible thumpers out there who might be watching. I'm hoping we get to see the Morning Star this season. Maybe they'll throw in a little archangel action--let's see Michael, or Gabriel.

[falconfan]

I like the direction it's taking and the juxtaposition of Sam and Dean. It's only natural when you look at the series. It's always true to the backstory and mythology surrounding a monster and the mythological background surrounding demons are steeped in Christian theology. I think its good how they're setting up clear roadmarkers and tasks.

LOVED seeing Nicki Aycox come back. Now THERE was a girl who knew how to play a demon (Take note new Ruby). Would've loved to see Madison come back though. That would've been great.

[aijalon18]

I like the direction it's taking and the juxtaposition of Sam and Dean. It's only natural when you look at the series. It's always true to the backstory and mythology surrounding a monster and the mythological background surrounding demons are steeped in Christian theology. I think its good how they're setting up clear roadmarkers and tasks.

LOVED seeing Nicki Aycox come back. Now THERE was a girl who knew how to play a demon (Take note new Ruby). Would've loved to see Madison come back though. That would've been great.

Is Madison that werewolf cougar who Sam had sex with that time?

Anywho It's especially disappointing that the show is taking this direction because Eric Kripke always maintained that they would NEVER go this route with angels and an ultra holy crusade.

[screwnutty]

So anybody think the season ending will have Dean face off against the devil?

I like the way they are showing Angels. It's just like in that movie called "The prophecy" with Christopher Walkin. Famous line in that movie was...would you ever truly want to meet an angel?

Then when the angel tells Dean that he's not here to perch on his shoulder, that he's a soldier. A warrior for god was at first kind of cheesy. But i like it. Also the seals are being broken and lucifier walks among the land again was cool too. Sure it sounds all religous like but the way there are delivering the material in this show i dont feel like I'm being preached too or anything. It's making it more exciting. I like it!

PS: Be cool to see greater demons too. Since so far the demons we've seen like ruby are scared as hell of angels. I like the fact that she said angels smite first then ask questions! LOL

[neoachilles]

^^^Yeah, I'm hoping they show some of the other Fallen Angels, not just demons.

[falconfan]

Is Madison that werewolf cougar who Sam had sex with that time?

Anywho It's especially disappointing that the show is taking this direction because Eric Kripke always maintained that they would NEVER go this route with angels and an ultra holy crusade.

She is indeed.

I was surprised aswell but I don't think it's really going and "ultra holy" way. It's not very hokey and bible thumping and the angel's are certainly not being portrayed as the all-loving good guys. My spider sense tell me that Dean and Sam will be gradually pulled to opposite sides of this war (each side showing an unquestionably ruthless and vicious attitude)... big reveal about Sam... and then the brothers move back together finding themselves at the center.

In shorty I suspect the angels will be portrayed as brutal and vicious and not the ideal. The rug may even come out from under all this if we learn that Castiel isn't an "angel" at all down the road.

[screwnutty]

^^^Yeah, I'm hoping they show some of the other Fallen Angels, not just demons.

your wish comes true in episode 7 Neoachilles!!

Spoiler: (Highlight this box to see the hidden message.)

The Winchesters investigate a series of occurrences related to a coven that worships the Celtic demon Samhain. Sam manages to get on the bad side of two fallen angels in the process when he's told the job is meant for Dean and Dean alone but interferes anyway.

[neoachilles]

Yay!!! And I will not be reading the spoilers, because I want to be surprised.

...

Okay, so I'm weak--I can't wait for Episode 7!!!

[aijalon18]

She is indeed.

I was surprised aswell but I don't think it's really going and "ultra holy" way. It's not very hokey and bible thumping and the angel's are certainly not being portrayed as the all-loving good guys. My spider sense tell me that Dean and Sam will be gradually pulled to opposite sides of this war (each side showing an unquestionably ruthless and vicious attitude)... big reveal about Sam... and then the brothers move back together finding themselves at the center.

In shorty I suspect the angels will be portrayed as brutal and vicious and not the ideal. The rug may even come out from under all this if we learn that Castiel isn't an "angel" at all down the road.

Yea I'm thinkin Sam and Dean are gonna be pulled to opposite sides. That seemed to be brewing for a while. But now since it seems Sam's relationship with Ruby has grown he has a connection to the demonis side. But it was getting very hokey with all this talk about Dean not having enough faith and god calling on him.

I'm hoping you're right that the angels will be very different from the fuzzy, white wings, rescuing babies we tend to think about at christmas time.

[falconfan]

So some evil evil thoughts occurred to me today. Kripke's comments are at times double layered (ie. When he said Sam and Dean are like Luke and Han Solo, it appeared he was talking about their personalities but now that the story has unfolded we see it can also be reference to Sam's powers, his temptation to the darkside, (and imo his true paternity). So when he said that he didn't plan on using angels of the devil or such it might not be as simple as he changed his mind... he could not be using angels, the devil, and such. Which leads me to wicked thoughts about Castiel:

Theory A) All is as it seems

Theory B) The MEG theory. In season two we learned that Meg was back with a vengance and more than a few tricks up her sleeve. If you remember she was IMMUNE to the devil's trap and I don't think it's a stretch to think she's learned a few other things as well (IE an immunity to the knife). Also Meg knows the way out of hell because she got out herself. With Meg's sworn mission to get back at Dean how wicked would it be if we learned towards the end of all this that she simply wished to get his hopes up and crush his spirit, to continue the mental punishment she started in "Born Under A Bad Sign?" Improbable... yes. Intruging... hell yes.

Theory C) Trickster theory- Dean isn't out of hell. Dean isn't back from the dead. This Dean is just a creation of the trickster no more substantial than any of his other illusions. In "Mystery Spot" the trickster showed he had a vested interest in the outcome of this battle and he cautioned Sam about going over the edge. When Sam began to do such the trickster may have intervened as "Castiel" in an attempt to stop Sam's backsliding to evil.

[falconfan]

Yea I'm thinkin Sam and Dean are gonna be pulled to opposite sides. That seemed to be brewing for a while. But now since it seems Sam's relationship with Ruby has grown he has a connection to the demonis side. But it was getting very hokey with all this talk about Dean not having enough faith and god calling on him.

I'm hoping you're right that the angels will be very different from the fuzzy, white wings, rescuing babies we tend to think about at christmas time.

Dude he killed all the people at the diner and burned their eyes out... that doesn't say fuzzy white wings, rescuing babies to me.

[screwnutty]

Dude he killed all the people at the diner and burned their eyes out... that doesn't say fuzzy white wings, rescuing babies to me.

also in episode two, Ruby says that angels smite first then ask questions!!

[Chosen]

I hope this story arc is more exciting and less predictable than every other season. I love the relationship between the brothers and the dialogue - but come on, there hasn't really been a decent storyline. Well they sounded decent, then they just weren't. I hope this one will be good, episode 1 and 2 shows it may well be - which is good!

[falconfan]

I hope this story arc is more exciting and less predictable than every other season. I love the relationship between the brothers and the dialogue - but come on, there hasn't really been a decent storyline. Well they sounded decent, then they just weren't. I hope this one will be good, episode 1 and 2 shows it may well be - which is good!

Supernatural doesn't follow the current "Shock and Awe" method of storytelling and I for one couldn't be happier about not having nonsensical "twists" dropped on my head for shock value. Kripke and his team rely heavily on character drama and make frequent use of foreshadowing to give the viewer a general sense of where things are going without spelling it out. I loved the first three seasons and the over arching storylines contained in them, seasons 2 and 3 particularly. I don't know about you but I didn't anticipate: John selling his soul, "He said I may have to kill ya Sammy", a psychich death match, Dean's deal, Ruby's revealation about demons being hell bound humans, or Sam to kill Gordon. I think it's done very well. Maintaining a delicate balance of coherency, character, and shock.