When is a straight guy bi, and what's the difference between tastes and selfishness?

[Orrion2000]

1. Where do you draw the line between a straight guy who wants to be serviced and not return it vs a gay guy who is just very selfish in bed? (I noticed some ads on here by gay guys offering favors to straight guys whose girlfiends would not perform said favors.)


For example: suppose a "straight" guy wants an rj from a gay guy since his girlfriend won't do it, but he is not willing to give you one. Would you say he is very selfish in bed, and be offended he asked? Would you say it is understandable since he is straight? Or would you not care either way and just go based on his appearance? Have you ever told another gay you are straight just because you did not want to return a rj?


My next question does not have to do with selfishness, but tastes:
Where is the line drawn between a straight guy and a bisexual guy? How many gay acts must he do with someone he says he is not attracted to, just for the feel, before he can no longer call himself straight? I've noticed some of your ads say you only "top" or only "bottom". I don't know, but turning down the opportunity to f or be f'd does not sound very gay to me. What if a guy loves to look at women and do every possible sexual act with her with the lights on, but the only thing he'd do with a gay man is accept a bj with the lights off? Does that make him bi, or straight, or just "prefers women"? What should he say on his match profile if he is being honest?


I have this theory: Since women are pickier than men (insist on men paying unless they are over 6 feet tall, and won't date a guy under 5'8", etc), I think a lot of guys straight guys losing at the competition and who've discovered peanut butter is not that good are turning to the gay community for release. It is all about supply and demand.


3. But with all the "tops" who won't give head, "bottoms" who won't accept it, and guys who only like the feel but not the view, What do the words "gay", "bi", and "straight" really mean? In your opinion, judging from the ads on here, what percent do you think are truly gay, and what percent to you think are just frustrated straights?


Please fill me in. It's for my sociology project.

[borg69unimatrix]

Please fill me in. It's for my sociology project.

I'm not a Guinea pig, or a lab rat.

[racer2438]

So do we get the credit for doing the work.....

[Halifaxboy8]

1. Where do you draw the line between a straight guy who wants to be serviced and not return it vs a gay guy who is just very selfish in bed? (I noticed some ads on here by gay guys offering favors to straight guys whose girlfiends would not perform said favors.)


For example: suppose a "straight" guy wants an rj from a gay guy since his girlfriend won't do it, but he is not willing to give you one. Would you say he is very selfish in bed, and be offended he asked? Would you say it is understandable since he is straight? Or would you not care either way and just go based on his appearance? Have you ever told another gay you are straight just because you did not want to return a rj?


My next question does not have to do with selfishness, but tastes:
Where is the line drawn between a straight guy and a bisexual guy? How many gay acts must he do with someone he says he is not attracted to, just for the feel, before he can no longer call himself straight? I've noticed some of your ads say you only "top" or only "bottom". I don't know, but turning down the opportunity to f or be f'd does not sound very gay to me. What if a guy loves to look at women and do every possible sexual act with her with the lights on, but the only thing he'd do with a gay man is accept a bj with the lights off? Does that make him bi, or straight, or just "prefers women"? What should he say on his match profile if he is being honest?


I have this theory: Since women are pickier than men (insist on men paying unless they are over 6 feet tall, and won't date a guy under 5'8", etc), I think a lot of guys straight guys losing at the competition and who've discovered peanut butter is not that good are turning to the gay community for release. It is all about supply and demand.


3. But with all the "tops" who won't give head, "bottoms" who won't accept it, and guys who only like the feel but not the view, What do the words "gay", "bi", and "straight" really mean? In your opinion, judging from the ads on here, what percent do you think are truly gay, and what percent to you think are just frustrated straights?


Please fill me in. It's for my sociology project.

I think you are caught up in a common error in how people think about sexuality. You are trying to break down gay/straight/bi into what they do, how they do it, and how often. There aren't defined lines. Its a whole lot of grey that is both simpler than you could imagine, and in that, paradoxically, quite complex. Physical acts don't define who a person is; its the psychology that matters.

I'm going to suggest you do some research into Kinsey's sexuality studies to get you back on track for your project.

[EJMichaels]

I think you are caught up in a common error in how people think about sexuality. You are trying to break down gay/straight/bi into what they do, how they do it, and how often. There aren't defined lines. Its a whole lot of grey that is both simpler than you could imagine, and in that, paradoxically, quite complex. Physical acts don't define who a person is; its the psychology that matters.

Good points. However, the OP seems to be talking about a particular aspect that makes some sense (in terms of sociology) - the issue of supply and demand, men turning to men to get what they want. While it's certainly a big part of it, this is not quite the same as the inappropriate/misguided labeling and definition problem.

[paatreides]

That's a very tall order!

It's complicated, to say the least.

A lot of str8 guys enjoy jacking off with buddies - doesn't make them gay or bi. Some of them even enjoy stroking a buddy's cock or having a buddy stroke his for him - doesn't make him gay or bi. A lot straight men love getting a blowjob from another guy - some because their wives or girlfriends won't do it, others because they get off of the fact it's a guy sucking on their dick. Doesn't make them gay or bi.

I personally don't like sexual labels - it confines us. I prefer to simply say we're all "sexual." But, to help others understand my preferences, I use "Bisexual."

This is because I truly enjoy sex equally with both genders. I love jacking off with buddies, jacking each other off, sucking each other's dicks, enjoy frot (but draw the line at anal - giving or receiving). I also love screwing my wife, titty-fucking, frot with her, manual stimulation, etc, etc.

A gay guy would not enjoy any encounter with a female; I don't recall ever hearing a gay guy say he enjoyed getting a hand job or a blow job from a woman.

I hope those simple explanations help! Good luck with your class!

[Orrion2000]

Your answers are not what I expected. I never read the Kensey studies, though I've heard of them years ago. I tend not to give any credit to sociology studies because they tend to only look at married couples and other easily trackable statistics, and not delve into infidelity and such.

I have a theory, shared by evolutionary sociologists, that many women will marry a guy with resources and sleep with a guy who has good genes, carrying his genes at the expense of the first guy. My college friend, who double majored in microbiology and psychiatry, simply had the conclusion that guys with the most resources get the most women. I agree, but you must count physical fitness and height as resources.

Are the Kensey studies really that famous and good, or did someone just recently take a college class? I know that in addition to the housing boom, there is a college boom too, particularly in non-engineering majors.

Still, I find it cool that when discussing the definitions of bi, straight, and gay, bi straight and gay people will give me different definitions. Or rather, people are sexual, each with different tastes, and will tell me different stuff. But I'm not visually turned on by men. I'm only visually turned on by certain women.

As for men masturbating together, that is one thing I've never done, nor do I want to. I actually can't climax while looking at a film, unless it is a very particular film. I always climax to my imagination, which is the thought of an above average woman sitting on my face. Too bad most women prefer to be dominated. Only the fat ones like to dominate. Also, people who grew up fat or unattractive want to be flattered as strippers, whereas people who grew up attractive and molested hate being looked at as sex objects. They take for granted the part about them getting good jobs in connection with their good looks.

The face is the part of the body with all 5 senses. Well, hearing is close by but not on the face. Still. Everywhere else is just feel. I think your sexual orientation is more defined by where you want to focus all your sense, as opposed to just one and imagining something else. But I also agree that people are sexual, and hung up on some things (like rim jobs).

Here is a more simple question though:

If I state on a site like Craigslist that I want a rim job from a gay guy, but since I'm straight, I don't want to return it, would most gay guys think I'm selfish in bed, a normal straight guy, depends on what I look like, or would they be turned off/on to rim jobs regardless of what I look like, on average? I heard that rj is the new bj. One that note: do you think bald guys are more likely to want a rj from a man than a guy with a full head of hair?

[Orrion2000]

Interesting thing about sexuality:

I read some online posts by women who thought that men should be hairy, or men who thought adult women should have pubes. It was a swimmers forum, where the swimmers shave to swim faster. They said that with the hair removed, it added a whole new dimension to oral sex. Amazing, that people could not predict their own sex urges.

Looking good enough to get what you want is a trade off. You get what you want, but you are not forced to discover other possibilities, though not reaching your full potential.

(I'm balding, if anyone took offense to my reference to bald guys.)

[Orrion2000]

Another thing about women and tall guys:
Height is not necessarily a turn on. I'm sure women get turned on knowing they have power and control over someone powerful. Some like being dominated by someone who actually can dominate them if it came to that. I think they also get turned on by their flirtation power when not having to do anything sexual.

People who were molested as kids, or chased as adults, tend not to be as turned on by sexual success as those who were ignored as kids. Some of the first group tend to hate the sexual expectations, but take for granted the fact that it got them some really high paying jobs. It all boils down to brain receptor activities.

[Orrion2000]

Do you agree that the threshold of appearance needed to be gone down on is lower than the threshold of appearance needed to go down on someone?

Do you also agree that given the choice between going down on the best looking person, or being gone down on by an average looking person, most people would choose the former, and say in their online profile that they prefer to be dominated? But if an ulgy person asks to dominate them, they just don't reply?

I think gay, bi, and straight are a measure of how you rank appearances, though men have tools women don't have an visa versa. When looking at women, facial appearance certainly matters, but I care much more about physical shape. When looking at men, I mostly see competition for women, or a difference in physical strength. If I wanted a rim job, I'd only care if his chin were thin enough to fit up in there well. I'd not want to do anything else involving my face and all 5 senses.

[Ganoderma]

hi Orrion2000,

Halifaxboy8 told you: "I'm going to suggest you do some research into Kinsey's sexuality studies to get you back on track for your project."

I never read the Kinsey studies, though I've heard of them years ago. I tend not to give any credit to sociology studies because they tend to only look at married couples and other easily trackable statistics, and not delve into infidelity and such.

Excuse me very much, but who told you that the Kinsey's only have carried out research on married couples? Thanks in advance for giving me the details (or an url)?

Too bad most women prefer to be dominated. Only the fat ones like to dominate. Also, people who grew up fat or unattractive want to be flattered as strippers (...).

Excuse me very much, but would you mind to tell me a bit more about the sources (url?) of your above statement on the behaviour of 'fat women'? Thanks in advance.


I underline the advise given by Halifaxboy8: I'm going to suggest you do some research into Kinsey's sexuality studies to get you back on track for your project, see http://www.iub.edu/~kinsey/research/ak-hhscale.htmland see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports

Best wishes.

[bw92116]

What is your deadline for turning in the project?
You might be up all night cramming for it.

[BlondeCanadian]

1. Where do you draw the line between a straight guy who wants to be serviced and not return it vs a gay guy who is just very selfish in bed? (I noticed some ads on here by gay guys offering favors to straight guys whose girlfiends would not perform said favors.)


For example: suppose a "straight" guy wants an rj from a gay guy since his girlfriend won't do it, but he is not willing to give you one. Would you say he is very selfish in bed, and be offended he asked? Would you say it is understandable since he is straight? Or would you not care either way and just go based on his appearance? Have you ever told another gay you are straight just because you did not want to return a rj?


My next question does not have to do with selfishness, but tastes:
Where is the line drawn between a straight guy and a bisexual guy? How many gay acts must he do with someone he says he is not attracted to, just for the feel, before he can no longer call himself straight? I've noticed some of your ads say you only "top" or only "bottom". I don't know, but turning down the opportunity to f or be f'd does not sound very gay to me. What if a guy loves to look at women and do every possible sexual act with her with the lights on, but the only thing he'd do with a gay man is accept a bj with the lights off? Does that make him bi, or straight, or just "prefers women"? What should he say on his match profile if he is being honest?


I have this theory: Since women are pickier than men (insist on men paying unless they are over 6 feet tall, and won't date a guy under 5'8", etc), I think a lot of guys straight guys losing at the competition and who've discovered peanut butter is not that good are turning to the gay community for release. It is all about supply and demand.


3. But with all the "tops" who won't give head, "bottoms" who won't accept it, and guys who only like the feel but not the view, What do the words "gay", "bi", and "straight" really mean? In your opinion, judging from the ads on here, what percent do you think are truly gay, and what percent to you think are just frustrated straights?


Please fill me in. It's for my sociology project.

I think your argument of supply and demand does not hold any weight whatsoever. You use the nature of woman as a lack of supply but do not take into account the lack of gay people in the world especially in say certain small towns. Does this same argument than mean that a gay man in a small town will mess around with woman due to the lack of gay options?.. from a small town myself ill say I didnt move out of it until I was 18 and I never messed around with a single person while I was there.

So I guess to answer your question. Kensly Straight and Gay are not influenced by supply and demand. All the shades in between might be influenced, but as they are some shade of bisexual it isn't againt their nature. therefore making your argument sort of obvious

[Orrion2000]

I think your argument of supply and demand does not hold any weight whatsoever. You use the nature of woman as a lack of supply but do not take into account the lack of gay people in the world especially in say certain small towns. Does this same argument than mean that a gay man in a small town will mess around with woman due to the lack of gay options?.. from a small town myself ill say I didnt move out of it until I was 18 and I never messed around with a single person while I was there.

So I guess to answer your question. Kensly Straight and Gay are not influenced by supply and demand. All the shades in between might be influenced, but as they are some shade of bisexual it isn't againt their nature. therefore making your argument sort of obvious

I would not be surprised if a gay guy in a small town accepted a bj or rj from a woman, maybe with his eyes closed. I know guys who claim to be straight but would not give a rj to a hot woman, or even go down on her. They don't sound very straight to me.
I'll have a look at the kensly studies. Thanks for the links.

As for the supply of gay men in a big city, that is another issue. Also, I've read in yahoo searches that many people thought rj's were bad, but then changed their mind.

So people don't see people as selfish, unless they themselves are selfish and projecting on the other person? If they like an activity, they just do it. And if they can find someone who likes to reciprocate, they stay with that person, but settle for the first person until then? I guess sex is more subjective that roommate situations where money is exchanged.

[Halifaxboy8]

Honestly Orrion, although I think your intentions for your project are well meant, you have a lot of personal bias towards superficiality that is getting in the way of your objectivity. In addition, you are making assumptions on many things across the board, which are causing you to cause (unintentional?) insult to some people. One of those slights was aimed at me where you threw out a snotty little comment (2nd post, 3rd paragraph) about education, or a lack thereof. I would give you my credentials, but I have no need to flash degrees to you.

Anyway, I think you have some serious flaws in your logic, are tainted by bias and further hampered by your assumptions. Good luck on your project, as I think you will need it.

[syoBsUtsuJ]

There is a HUGE difference between Identification and DEFINITION. Personally, I identify myself as being gay within as without, but it doesn't DEFINE me as a person! I will be the first to admit that some girls do still turn me on both awake and subconsciously, but I just don't go there, because invariably, I'll have to fantasize about their hot brother or cousin during our sex.

Subjectively, I was bisexual for almost five years until I decided to come out to the world as being gay; "Subjective" being the key word! I do not feel it is my place or anybody else's to identify, much less define another person's sexuality or other personality facet. My own personal theories and/or feelings are exactly that -- My OWN!

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and evidentiary of subjectivity, just as how we choose (consciously or subconsciously) to enjoy anything is. Personally, I do not enjoy giving rim jobs, but since I enjoy receiving them every now and again, I will give one to someone I am with and love ... every now and again.

[Ganoderma]

My next question does not have to do with selfishness, but tastes: Where is the line drawn between a straight guy and a bisexual guy? How many gay acts must he do with someone he says he is not attracted to, just for the feel, before he can no longer call himself straight? (...). What if a guy loves to look at women and do every possible sexual act with her with the lights on, but the only thing he'd do with a gay man is accept a bj with the lights off? Does that make him bi, or straight, or just "prefers women"? What should he say on his match profile if he is being honest? Please fill me in. It's for my sociology project.

Hi Orrion2000,

Towards my opinion, this is totally up to the guy.

So I will classify any guy as straight when he calls himself straight and I will classify a guy as bisexual when this particular guy calls himself bisexual. That's it.

Am I allowed to ask you some questions as well? Where do you live (in which country)? What's your age, what are your sexual experiences with guys and girls, and what's the kind of classes you are following now (in regard to this project)? No need to provide us with answers if you feel uncomfortable.

Are you aware of the situation in -strict- muslim countries, and how alot of guys in these countries / culture think about male/male sex and about male/female sex?

Thanks in advance for some replies.

[bankside]

I have what is probably a minority view that our sexual orientation is defined entirely by our willing and intended behaviours, and that nothing else to do with "identity" really matters or makes any sense.

So, this theoretical guy in your example: if he has been happy to have sex with women, but now he wants to try it with a guy, he can call himself a bi-curious straight guy. If he likes it enough that he wants to go back for more, he's bi. If he likes it so much that he never wants to sleep with a woman ever again because this is so much better than he expected, then, ladies and gentlemen, we have ourselves a gay.

And if that guy wants to sleep with another guy, but does nothing to ensure the other guy has a good time, he's just a selfish gay guy. A gay guy with a kinky fetish for pretending he's straight. But he is not actually straight any more than I was Superman that night with the cape and the pineapp---never mind.

How people feel about their behaviours doesn't matter; it's what they choose to do that makes a difference. And if a guy chooses to have sexual contact with another guy, he is bi or gay. There is one exception, but it's temporary. If he tries it, and doesn't like it, and doesn't want to try it again, he can go back to being straight.

[BiMike]

I fuly agree with the above, great post defining a guys sexuality. I have no problem considering myself Bi since I love sex with a guy or a girl

[transient]

The face is the part of the body with all 5 senses. Well, hearing is close by but not on the face. Still. Everywhere else is just feel. I think your sexual orientation is more defined by where you want to focus all your sense, as opposed to just one and imagining something else. .

You should focus on the highlighted part of your post. You are on to something.

[transient]

I have what is probably a minority view that our sexual orientation is defined entirely by our willing and intended behaviours, and that nothing else to do with "identity" really matters or makes any sense.

So, this theoretical guy in your example: if he has been happy to have sex with women, but now he wants to try it with a guy, he can call himself a bi-curious straight guy. If he likes it enough that he wants to go back for more, he's bi. If he likes it so much that he never wants to sleep with a woman ever again because this is so much better than he expected, then, ladies and gentlemen, we have ourselves a gay.

And if that guy wants to sleep with another guy, but does nothing to ensure the other guy has a good time, he's just a selfish gay guy. A gay guy with a kinky fetish for pretending he's straight. But he is not actually straight any more than I was Superman that night with the cape and the pineapp---never mind.

How people feel about their behaviours doesn't matter; it's what they choose to do that makes a difference. And if a guy chooses to have sexual contact with another guy, he is bi or gay. There is one exception, but it's temporary. If he tries it, and doesn't like it, and doesn't want to try it again, he can go back to being straight.

Well said.