Which Star Trek death is the saddest?

[TygreBryte]

Force is much like the tao. binds us all together, ultimately cannot be adequately described, etc. would allow borg drones to execute "force push" and "force pull."

[gsdx]

what is the force and how would it add to the borg's perfection?

It's an energy drawn from everything around you and focused to do your bidding. It can be used for good or for evil. If the Borg could learn it, it would benefit them greatly in manipulating those they wish to assimilate.

[vamp]

Didn't a new queen arise as soon as an old one died? And didn't part of "the queen" always stay within the collective, so in a way, she never really died (similar to the way the Cylons get recycled?)

Neelix. WORST. STAR TREK. CHARACTER. EVAR.

Well, every sci-fi series has their own idiotic character. Star Wars has Jar Jar Binks and Star Trek has Neelix.

[jamessmith08]

i was so angry that it took them THAT long to get rid of neelix "mr. vulcan" how annoying

The Borg do not need 'coercion' by force..they'd simply take what they want no need to 'pull/push'

In a way the Borg collective is its own 'force' their toughts bind them as one in a harmony

[versatastic]

The Force is more powerful than the Borg or any corporeal entity. Be it Sith or Jedi, the Borg cannot fully assimilate those strong with the Force. The Jedi would prevail if the Sith were to fail because the Jedi don't need their bodies to use the Force. By will alone, a Jedi collective with the limitless power of the Force would decimate the Borg, perhaps even wiping them out of existence as easily as Q snaps his fingers.

On the physical front, the Borg may have technology, but the Sith or Jedi only need air to breath. They can sense the energies flowing through the Borg and completely distrupt them. The Borg cannot possibly adapt to such an onslaught. Without their technology, the Borg are weaker than C3PO. With a wave of a hand, the Borg would be destroyed.

[gsdx]

This is so true.

Coombs: "Oh, come on, Felger, we might as well be wearing red shirts!"

Felger: "See? I don't get that."

Coombs: "How can you call yourself a scientist and not worship at the shrine of Roddenberry?"

(Stargate SG-1, Episode 608 The Other Guys)

[versatastic]

The Borg do not need 'coercion' by force..they'd simply take what they want no need to 'pull/push'

In a way the Borg collective is its own 'force' their toughts bind them as one in a harmony

They do need to coerce you to assimilate you. You have to give in and accept assimilation. Data was the only one who could resist, and when he did succumb to his temtation he quickly regained his composure and removed his mind from the collective. The Jedi would do the same.


The assimilated body of a Sith or Jedi would be useless to the Borg. The Force is controlled through the will of the mind and since they will not give their minds over to the collective, the Borg will never be able to use the Force. The Sith may give in to the Borg, but only so that the Sith/Borg hybrid could crush the Jedi. Then the Sith would quickly turn on the Borg and make them the new Imperial Guard instead of the clones. But, since the Jedi know the secret to immortality, they will defeat the Sith in the end. Either way, the Borg is nothing to the Force.

[jamessmith08]

what part of "resistance is futile" don't you understand?

you don't 'give in and accept' assimilation you're injected with nanoporbes that reconstruct your body and mind

[TygreBryte]

The Force is more powerful than the Borg or any corporeal entity. Be it Sith or Jedi, the Borg cannot fully assimilate those strong with the Force. The Jedi would prevail if the Sith were to fail because the Jedi don't need their bodies to use the Force. By will alone, a Jedi collective with the limitless power of the Force would decimate the Borg, perhaps even wiping them out of existence as easily as Q snaps his fingers.

On the physical front, the Borg may have technology, but the Sith or Jedi only need air to breath. They can sense the energies flowing through the Borg and completely distrupt them. The Borg cannot possibly adapt to such an onslaught. Without their technology, the Borg are weaker than C3PO. With a wave of a hand, the Borg would be destroyed.

Y'know, the Jedi as a whole didn't come out too well in Episodes 2(5) and 3(6). What would happen if the Jedi met the Borg in their weaker, clouded state?

hmmmm.... I wonder if the Sith might allow itself to be assimilated as an path to becoming more all-powerful?

[versatastic]

what part of "resistance is futile" don't you understand?

you don't 'give in and accept' assimilation you're injected with nanoporbes that reconstruct your body and mind

I guess you didn't watch First Contact closely enough. They say resistance is futile because that is true of normal humanoids. Data is not human, so he could resist. Those imbued with the Force and have the training will also have the strength of mind to resist the Borg.

[versatastic]

Y'know, the Jedi as a whole didn't come out too well in Episodes 2(5) and 3(6). What would happen if the Jedi met the Borg in their weaker, clouded state?

hmmmm.... I wonder if the Sith might allow itself to be assimilated as an path to becoming more all-powerful?

Yeah, they're fucked, specially with the Sith having shifted the balance of power to their side.

[jamessmith08]

I guess you didn't watch First Contact closely enough. They say resistance is futile because that is true of normal humanoids. Data is not human, so he could resist. Those imbued with the Force and have the training will also have the strength of mind to resist the Borg.

They didn't assimilate Data because they wanted the codes to stop the self destruct sequence. And Picard went into a whole speech about how the Borg Queen wanted an equal. it wasn't that they COULDNT do it.

And if you're saying you have to 'give into' the Borg...then how did Picard, a man with an iron will, become Locutus? and all the other Enterprise crew in First Contact? They willingly became borg?

Even if the force was enough to resist the mental layover of the Borg, they couldn't stop the nanotech from assimilating their bodies.

And comparatively from what i've seen of Star wars photos they're rather primitive.

[versatastic]

They didn't assimilate Data because they wanted the codes to stop the self destruct sequence. And Picard went into a whole speech about how the Borg Queen wanted an equal. it wasn't that they COULDNT do it.

And if you're saying you have to 'give into' the Borg...then how did Picard, a man with an iron will, become Locutus? and all the other Enterprise crew in First Contact? They willingly became borg?

Even if the force was enough to resist the mental layover of the Borg, they couldn't stop the nanotech from assimilating their bodies.

And comparatively from what i've seen of Star wars photos they're rather primitive.

They willingly became borg after extreme coercion. Vulcans with even stronger minds and wills than Picard's can be assimilated, as can Cardassians who are trained from infancy to have strong enough minds to be able to resist Vulcan mind melds. They are human(-oid) after all, so even Picard can be assimilated.

What sets the Jedi/Sith apart is the power of the Force. The Borg needs actual thinking minds to add to the hive mind, so if you physically disable the brain, it can't be used. Even if the Borg kills or assimilates the a Jedi's body, his mind will not be corrupted. Again, it's the mind that matters, so the Borg won't be able to use Jedi powers. And since the Jedi have learned how to reconstitute the essence of their beings (sould/mind/ectc) after death instead of being reabsorbed into the Force, they will still be able to control the Force and destroy the Borg.

The primitive technology of the Star Wars universe doesn't matter when they have the Force. Also, their science and laws of physics/nature are very different than those of the Star Trek universe. Where Star Wars has the Force, Star Trek has technology. The Force is limitless. In the Star Trek universe, almost anything is possible through technology/science. Star Trek technology is limited to the physical realm, whereas the Force goes transcends it.

[cbtfan]

Borg? Jedi/Sith? Species 8472 would eat then for breakfast and think nothing of it.

[versatastic]

Borg? Jedi/Sith? Species 8472 would eat then for breakfast and think nothing of it.

They know nothing of the Force. They live in fluidic space. The Jedi only need to raise a hand to summon the sparky sparks and electrocute them all.

[ronboy]

No contest for me.....

It was Spock.....

As I child born in the 60's, he was the coolest "half-human" on TV.

He was smart, dignified, honorable, and very loyal.

Seeing his death in "Star Trek II-The Wrath of Khan" left me feeling the loss.

I am so glad he was "reborn" on the Genesis planet.

[theworldwithout]

I'd say Jadzia's was the saddest, for she was able to talk about what she was feeling as she was dying, and express her final moments to Worf...Tasha I think had the saddest "memorial" I guess you could call it, as they played out her hologram and she was able to express her feelings to each member of the crew, and you forgot to put Ducat's daughter, and Garret's love interest, Ziyal, into your poll. I thought that was sad too, but not as sad as the ones I mentioned or some of the others in the poll.

[flood22]

I have a question. Is there a Star Trek character that did not die at least once? It seems like everyone dies and comes back somehow.

So true... in TNG episode "Cause and Effect" (one of my favorites) the Enterprise-D got stuck in a time loop and was repeatedly destroyed by a collision with the Bozeman--captained by a character played by Kelsey Grammer, BTW.

Makes me want to go on a TNG marathon talking about all of this trivia.

[DamienSage]

I picked Spock. As a child it always made me cry and the whole exchange is so poignant and timeless:

Spock: The needs of the many, out weigh the needs of the few...

Kirk: Or the one.

Spock: I have been, and always shall be your friend... Live long and prosper.

Then Kirk's eulogy afterwards... Shatner's shining moment as an actor and one of the most genuinely sincere moments in Trekdom.

[theworldwithout]

There are still the two Ferangis that went through that unstable wormhole in an episode of TNG and ended up in the Delta Quadrant! Of course they ran when Voyager found them out as they were scamming a planet and went back through the wormhole...but you never get to see where they came out, so they could still be there somewhere! Maybe they've set up a casino somewhere?

[vamp]

So true... in TNG episode "Cause and Effect" (one of my favorites) the Enterprise-D got stuck in a time loop and was repeatedly destroyed by a collision with the Bozeman--captained by a character played by Kelsey Grammer, BTW.

Makes me want to go on a TNG marathon talking about all of this trivia.

Lol, but characters aren't the only ones that come back. I swear Starfleet Starships have more lives than all the cats on Earth! Voyager was destroyed at least 4 times before it got back to Earth and Enterprise-D was destroyed at least 6 times, not counting the times in the time loop.

[theworldwithout]

Probably with Neelix. They were dating.

Kes broke it off, she thought he was too easily jealous and over-protective.

Oh! I forgot about Data's daughter Lal. She was only in one episode, but I thought her death very sad and quite touching.

[theworldwithout]

I complete forgot he left! I was thinking he made it back to Earth with the rest of the crew, I had to tax my memory to remember that.

[theworldwithout]

The Ferangis annoy me.

They are so greedy.

They are annoying, especially in their first few appearances, but could you dislike Quark? When paired with Odo he was the funniest character on DS9.

[vamp]

If she remained part of the crew of Voyager, I think she wouldn't have traveled to the Alpha Quadrant. She would have stayed with Neelix.

I just wonder how in the world Neelix wound up with a girl like Kes. Any other woman would have slapped him and ran off screaming.

[versatastic]

Kes wasn't even 2 yet when she was going out with Neelix. Thank god she grew out of that. Kes was annoying until she grew out her hair and got her powers. Too bad she had to leave to make room for Seven.

[versatastic]

God forbid we have two attractive women on the show.

What? Is B'Lana chopped liver?

[versatastic]

Holodec or go gay!

[versatastic]

Why not both?

Only if the holodec did exist....

"Computer, execute Piggy fantasy 1"

Why hello Tom Paris.

What? You want me to remove your clothes. Sure thing Tom.

Ugh, you can have Tom, I'll be busy with the young Spock (Zachary Quinto)!

[TygreBryte]

God forbid we have two attractive women on the show.

there are only so many minutes in one episode that people can be on-screen!

[thewiz]

Had to be Spock...live long and prosper.....

[CSI_3Stokes]

Spock- From my memory, it was pretty sad... I voted for him.

Captain Kirk- I didn't feel anything...

Tasha Yar- I didn't feel anything, even when they viewed her holographic umm epitaph.

Data- Haven't seen it.

Jazdia- Haven't seen it.

Sarek- Haven't seen it.

I have only seen Kirk, Tasha, and Data's exits. Data's affected me. The other two -not so much.

[FanofFiction]

Tasha Yar's death struck me as sad because it wasn't a death worthy of the character. I almost never find a death "sad" when it's heroic. That's why I loved her second death.

[PreTTy PeTe]

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/David_Marcus

kirks son in search for spock

and it is so sad because he also died in real life too early.

sad it is. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0125190/

[gsdx]

Sarek's decline was powerful and magnificently portrayed by Mark Leonard. I'll never, ever forget that single tear rolling down his cheek. His off-screen death was expected, but no less sad. Spock's death was sad, but I think Sarek's death had a bigger impact on me.

[justsimon]

Lore's death was the saddest. Ensign Ro's was a close second.

[PreTTy PeTe]

sarek was a creepy part of trek

thanks god for the reboot.

the entire old cast is gone.. hopefully.

[xbuzzerx]

Saddest death to me was I suppose kind of a non-death. There's an episode (maybe someone else mentioned it.. haven't read the whole thread) where Worf is paralyzed when his spine gets crushed, and rather than live as a crippled guy decides to go through an extremely high-risk experimental spine replacement procedure. He dies on the operating table, and to me the saddest part wasn't that, it was when Dr. Crusher comes to Worf's son's room to tell him the news and she's nearly bawling.

Course Worf's Klingon physiology kicks in some kind of survival redundancy and he comes back from flatline.

[FanofFiction]

sarek was a creepy part of trek

thanks god for the reboot.

the entire old cast is gone.. hopefully.

Aw, I love the old casts. A little part of me is still bitter that I'll never see more of the Voyager crew in a big screen adaptation.

But on the topic of the reboot, Kirk's father had a very good death scene. Guns blazing. And he was hot.

[GamerBear]

Tasha Yar, it was like "Oh she'll get back up after that hit" nope...One hit death so fucked up. Data's has to be a close 2nd for me.

[cgymike]

The real life death of Dr McCoy.....

[Axxess]

Hmm...It's a tossup between Tasha and Jadzia. Tasha was proof that the 24th century isn't this utopia where all of humanity's problems are gone. Also, her death was so meaningless; Killed by a blob of tar just because it could. However, I'm going to have to give it up to Jadzia because while her death was also meaningless, she was replaced by the superfluous character Ezri, which completely desecrated her memory.

I have not--nor will I ever--watch Nemesis, which is why I didn't really consider Data.

Lore's death was the saddest. Ensign Ro's was a close second.

Ro died?

[xbuzzerx]

Hmm...It's a tossup between Tasha and Jadzia. Tasha was proof that the 24th century isn't this utopia where all of humanity's problems are gone. Also, her death was so meaningless; Killed by a blob of tar just because it could. However, I'm going to have to give it up to Jadzia because while her death was also meaningless, she was replaced by the superfluous character Ezri, which completely desecrated her memory.

I have not--nor will I ever--watch Nemesis, which is why I didn't really consider Data.




Ro died?

In the show she didn't-- but I guess it's presumable she died when the Maquis were obliterated.

[thief2000]

hmm spocks mother´s death in the last movie was pretty sad and i hated how worf´s wive K'Ehleyr died in next generation... speaking of wives... jadzia was his wive too,right? her death ws rather sad too...

[thief2000]

btw: i think it´s totaly awesome that nobody thinks that kirk´s death was sad hehe

[Sinestro]

Definitely Data's for me. I mean just watching him develop through the years and then watching him do that one last act to save his captain and ship, just so sad to see him go. Jadzia's is a close second though, as she had to be my favorite character on DS9 till she died.

[evanrick]

What about David, Kirks son?

I know star trek pretty well and the franchise does not do death scenes well. Data's was probably the best effort they have given.

[evanrick]

btw: i think it´s totaly awesome that nobody thinks that kirk´s death was sad hehe

kirk never accepted the fact that hes mortal.

[FanofFiction]

I love Kirk. He's a favorite character of mine. And I love William Shatner, he's the man. But Kirk's death in Generations was less than epic... He fell off a bridge and then it fell on him. I just didn't think it was right for him. I always thought he should have died on a starship. If his perceived death at the beginning of the filn were real- then I would have voted for him.


Scotty's nephew's death in Wrath of Khan was pretty sad as well. I couldn't watch it when I was little.

[borg69unimatrix]

The first time I remember crying during a Star Trek "death" was actually when Kirk blew up the Enterprise for the first time.

Granted, the ship isn't a character, per se, but she was their 'home', and got them out of many sticky situations. It was almost a character to me.