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  1. #201
    JUB Addict LostVegas's Avatar
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Hey guys whats up..


    I just read some of your advice and I must really, honestly admit that it was quite hard to read. I felt like I was reading about a different person when you were talking about my buddy.

    I know we are not biological brothers but thats what we refer to ourselves all the time because we are so close.

    Let me just state some things that I know:

    I know he is not using me.
    I know that he will not get mad if I play tough love with him.
    I know, no matter what happens, we will always be this close
    And as much as I am in love with him and would sleep with him given the chance, I am fully aware of the benefits of a friend like him for life and have been making decisions with him, with my love for him NOT in my mind.

    For example, I CAN see myself staying here in NYC and having a great life, whether he is here or not..I would miss him..but then again my life here will make up for the missing him part.

    I live rent free. Im getting the building(3 story house) here inherited to me in a few years...I can make a great life here.

    I think I will help him out, but with a warning that this will be the last I can do for a while.

    I appreciate all of your feedback as hard as it was to read..I know you guys were/are being just honest and I love you for it...thats what I am looking for by posting on here...thank you ..brian

  2. #202

    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    If you know he wont get mad if you play tough love with him then I say hold back on the financial support, because I think that you will feel like 'this is the last time' each time. Even if he isn't using you, he needs to tough it out. Maybe you are scared that if you don't give him the money he will love you less, which if what you say is true isnt the case. Be open about it and say you want to help him but endlessly giving him money isnt helping him.

  3. #203

    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Hey Brian,

    I apologize in advance if I'm unfair to you or your friend with this comment. I've been reading your thread since day one. I've been always impressed by the emotional connection you guys have. That's very unique and special and I really appreciate your participation in this forum.

    I've been thinking about the financial support issue for a while. Initially, I decided not to post my concerns afraid of having limited information and of being unfair to you both. The credit card episode raised a red flag along with other things. I decided to post today based on recent comments by some of the guys. It's not my plan to hurt you, just to raise some questions and suggest a strategy that protects you financially and (more important) emotionally.

    I can understand the situation of helping a friend, especially if you have the means to. I'm a bit worried of seeing a pattern here even though in the current situation that financial support may seem justifiable. There is love and friendship involved here. At the same time unequal distribution of resources and potential economic dependence add another layer that has to be recognized and deal with.

    In some moment your friend will have to become independent financially. The reality is that you love him and love blind us in some degree (for good and bad). It's not good for any relationship to fall into a pattern of dependency (Easier said than done, I know). He may not be using you consciously but you might be playing the role of a brother who is always available to solve his financial problems (Based on your account, you are clearly more available than his own family). Is that potential financial dependency good for your relationship in the long term? Is this the role you want to define yourself in this relationship? Is a more symmetrical relationship a better alternative? How to address that potential dependency in a healthy way? How to make the relationship more symmetrical from a financial perspective?

    Clarify the terms of your financial help if you decide to go ahead with the plan and think about ways to protect yourself emotionally and financially. Try to avoid patterns and work for a more symmetrical/equal relationship.

    I apologize in advance if my comment seems unfair.

    All the best

  4. #204
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    I want to second Yves excellent post above ^^^. He echoes my sentiments exactly (apologies and all). Hang in there. You're a smart guy and will figure this out to your satisfaction--of that I have no doubt.

    Keep in touch with us and let us know how you're doing.

    And, special thanks to Yves again for writing my post for me too!

  5. #205
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    I was going to keep my mouth shut ... but the Money thing always seems to get under my skin! As much as I truly do HATE it, Money, that is, it still bugs me! And THAT is what truly Bugs Me!! That I LET it Bug Me!!

    A quick (I hope) little story ...

    A HIGH SCHOOL Bud of mine was going through a job loss, AND Divorce. I've known this Guy, and his entire extended family, even nearly married one of his cousins!, for (OMG!) 38yr. now! His situation was indeed quite "Dire", and he asked me for some "help". Even spent several months living with "My" Kev, and I. And though I've never been attracted to him in any physical way, he was still my "Bro"! And though I KNEW "Better" ... since I know him SO well! ... I agreed to "Lend" him some Cash. Not a good move! But I KNEW that going into it ...

    We set up his computer system, in tandem with mine, and he was truly using it to find employment Nation Wide. He DID find a new position, and moved to another part of the country. (On MY "Dime"!) He also proceeded to buy a few things, like a new flat panel TV! A collection of semi-precious stones! And other "Necessities"!! Not exactly what I would consider, given his situation, "Wise" uses of "My" Money!!

    But the Money really wasn't "Mine" anymore! I had freely "Loaned" (Given) it to him! I was just very pissed off that he wasn't using it as "Smartly" as I had hoped! It really BUGGED ME that his use of that resource wasn't in line with what I would have used it for! But what bothered me more was the very fact that it bothered me at all! (And, No, I never mentioned that to him!)

    And now ... he hasn't attempted to repay a single penny. His attempts at staying in touch have dwindled to nothing. I haven't heard from, or about, him for months. And my greatest resentment is the fact I've lost all contact with him! I no longer know where, or how, he is doing! And I wasn't the one that chose to break contact!!

    I NEVER pressured him to pay it back, at all! I never brought it up in conversation! But, yet, there was still that undercurrent! And now he has "disappeared"!

    I'm pretty sure I'll hear from/about him again. But there is no telling how long that may be! And I still feel it's all because of the Money situation (we're talking multiples of thousands)!

    Has this been "Worth" it? No ... I don't think so! Do I regret it? Yes! But I'm also "happy" I was able to help out. Even now that it has led to this, I would probably do it again!

    So ... the more You may send Your "Bro", the more "She" will undoubtedly spend! But is that really the point? Or is there something far more "Valueable" at "Risk" here?

    You, Dear Brian, are the only one that can answer that one!

    I am sincerely wishing ALL the Very Best!!

    Keep smilin'!!
    Ky
    WISDOM is the Knowledge you've gained ... After you could have used it! _Me

  6. #206
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Yves...wow ...what an excellent post indeed. It really made me think.

    KYAnimal...your post was so hard to read ..hard because I dont see me and my buddys situation as the same as yours..it is to a point..My buddy is not going anywhere(well besides Vegas, heh). Anyway it was hard reading your post nonetheless, because I feel so bad that others see him as this leech. I am very protective over him and he is over me. I know some people might get sick of that fact that I keep writing that me and my buddy are very close, but it is deeply true. There are even some things that me and my buddy find amazing that we are so close. We can never stay mad at each other as much as we try sometimes.


    That being said...Im in a daze...I feel pretty sad this morning. I can't really exactly explain why, but I do.

    I really do miss him very much. Perhaps that is why I am this way. I am tearing up as I write this. I miss him being by my side, I cant wait till August..BRIAN

  7. #207
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Just had to write that I am terribly sad today. This came out of nowhere. Lately I have been pretty good. Lately I also have been dealing with my friends distance.

    But I miss him terribly and I am sad we are not near each other.

    It is such a gut wrenching, intense, piercing pain. I dont know how to get rid of it.

    I am going to have to tell him soon what I think about him. Brian

  8. #208
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Dear Brian ...

    Sorry about my earlier post. It was not my intention to make you feel badly, or infer anything, at all, about Your relationship with Your Bud! I was merely trying to point out how Money can possibly interfer with relationships. Sometimes beyond our control or expectations. And was offering my "story" as an example of what can/might happen.

    Richard, and I, consider ourselves "Brothers", yet are not nearly as close as You and Your Friend. There really isn't all that much comparison! And ... no ... we aren't mad at each other. Our most recent exchanges were quite jovial, actually, and the Money has never been a topic of discussion. Nor do I intend to EVER bring it up! But still ... as Yves mentioned ... it seems to have upset the equallibrium that existed between us.

    And, yes, we have lost contact before. Sometimes for years! But like all good friendships, things just picked up right where they had left off before. This time is "different" though.

    Perhaps it was my "disappointment" in him, which I tried my best to "cover"? But he also knows me Very Well, and may have picked up "something" in my voice, inflection, or replies to other topics. Perhaps I was being more "stilted" than usual. I just don't Know for sure! But Something has happened that just doesn't feel "right"!

    You mentioned that it pissed you off that "She" was out shopping! And maybe some of that "disappointment" might unintentionally convey to Your Bud! Please try Your Best NOT to let that happen! It's just not worth possibly "damaging" Your Relationship over!

    In the long run, the Money doesn't really matter! And I would advise You to do whatever you can to completely Forget about "It"! Just let it go!

    Money can be a very deceptive "Two Edged Sword"! Not only can it bring about unwanted feelings in the Recipient, but also in the Giver! Please ... DO NOT allow it that Power!!

    Send more, or not, if you can, and/or wish to. But do Your utmost to not let it come between you! As "they" say, "It's ONLY Money!" And I'm urging You to do Your Best to keep it that way! There are FAR more valuable things in Life! And Your Relationship with Your "Bro" is definitely one of them!!

    I am, sincerely, wishing You ALL the Very Best!!

    And, of course (seriously) ...

    Keep smilin'!!
    Ky
    WISDOM is the Knowledge you've gained ... After you could have used it! _Me

  9. #209
    JUB Addict LostVegas's Avatar
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Thanks for the kind words KY....Im sorry if I maybe "snapped" a little or got defensive but it has just been a stressful, depresing last few days..stressed out at work, and in my personal life..

    I really do thank you for all the advice and the time you have taken to show me through your experience the right thing to do...

    As for helping my friend...I probably will help him..and no I dont let money have anymore value than it is...it is just that..money and material. If I were to be upset or place too much importance on money..trust me..I would have done it many times ago with my buddy..who I cant even say here how much I have helped him out with...but then again hasnt he helped me out in so many other ways too? In ways that I cannot simply even begin to put a monetary value on? I dunno..will update soon...talk to you all later..Brian

  10. #210
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Maybe this was already answered and got buried, but here's something I've been wondering.. Considering he left you and all his other friends, I assume he knows nobody out there aside from his fiancee (who he has been iffy about marrying all along!), and neither of them had a job lined up, why in the heck did he decide to move out there? I've done crazy things like that before too because I needed a change in life, but I've at least had a job set up at my destination beforehand!

  11. #211
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Umma-When me and my buddy and his girl originally moved to Vegas in Summer of o4....We didnt have anything lined up...my buddy said as long as we had each other we would make it through..well we certainly made it through, our finances that is, and we came back home...when we came back I had my place here set for me, but they had given up their apt here and so they had to move in with his mother in law, her mother. It was miserable there for him the whole time. He was made to feel like shit, everyone treated him bad. His girl would even take their sides and always fight with him and want to break up with him...long story short our plan was always to move back out there together...But on XMAS eve the mother in law got an eviction notice to be out by 2/1/06...and so they had to leave, he asked me for help and he agreed that staying here is too depressing for him so they both decided to leave...it was very hard for him becasue I chose to stay and finish my schooling and save up a lot more..and be ready this time...it was a hard decision to stay behind, but I dont ever wanna live where Im just making it anymore..I want to live comfortable.

    Hope that answered it

    When I got home from my masters class a message from his mother was on my machine..He called me last night but I wasnt home..I have not spoken to him his girl or his mother in a few days..and quite frankly could use the break...but I know my buddy...he will call me late tonight..he hates us going at all without talking so Im sure to ehar from him...talk to you all soon...BRIAN

  12. #212
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    Wow

    Hey guys whats up....


    My buddy called me last night and talked for like a minute..he said his girl is leaving to go over her friends house for two days and that can he call me in fifteen minutes? I said sure.

    He called me back and said "Whats up buddy?" and I said "Whats up?" and then he proceeded to break down and bawl and cry and sob like I have never heard him do before.

    He said that he misses me too much and that I dont begin to even know how much he misses me. He said that he is too alone out there and he wants to come home. He said he is losing hope and he feels like he cannot get a break and he feels a large weight on his shoulders.

    I felt really bad for him. I wanted to hug him so much. I said buddy its ok, cry it out. Im here. He cried so much and for so long I was worried for him.

    He said we have to work on me coming out there sooner and that a year is too long and that even August is too long. He said he misses his walks and talks with me and the littlest things. We talked for close to two hours about this and after a while he said he needs to call me back, he had to vomit.

    He calls me back and the first thing he said was that he misses me and he knows he sounds like a broken record. I told him I miss him in ways that he doesnt know either.

    He said he has been lying and things have not been ok out there and that me being there would make him feel comfortable. He said he is thinking about coming home, even though he hates NYC, just to be near me.

    After a while I talked to him and calmed him down. We started talking about other things. Movies. Vegas. NYC., etc..

    And then the whole topic completely shifted.

    He asked me how therapy is going and I said I dont go anymore. He said and how is the OTHER thing going. And I go what? He says, you know what we talked about. And I said nothing much.

    He made a joke about when he had a kid whether or not he should call me aunt or uncle brian..we both had a laugh over it and he said that only he could joke about that with me.

    He asked if Ii had been seeing anyone. He also asked about what type of guy that Im into. I said recently I had been with a guy Matt who is a personal trainer at Crunch gym..hes like get out Ballys(the company my buddy used to work for) owns that. I said cool and he goes whats his name maybe I know him. I said his name but it didnt ring a bell. He asked me if this guy Matt had tattoos and I said no. After I went on about Matt my buddy said "yeah I have to get back in shape"

    He then said that if he were to go the other way he would have to be the man..I said excuse me?? lol And he said nevermind. He asked me if Im the man when we have sex..I said yes lol. I went ont o say that Im into manly men..and for some reason I guess he got all defensive and said "Well I cant help you out there!" I was like ok....

    He said it is cool that we were able to talk about this and he enjoys the fact that I am more comfortable with him now. He also said that him and his girl love me to death and that he doesnt even se me as a friend, he sees me as a brother.

    He also said that he knew very quickly that I was gay. He said he thought with some things I said that I was slowly coming out to him and he tried to make it more easy for me. He said he loves me no matter what. He then went on to say that if I am with anyone come August that I could invite him down with me and that he would be more than welcome. He said is proud of me and proud to know me and that he would be glad to tell his straight Italian friends that he had a gay friend. he also said he has lost a lot of respect for his friends back home and that everyday I remind him more and more of what brothers we are. I told him that "we have a rare relationship/friendship"; and he goes I know..

    He then played me a clip of American Pie 3 where Stifler, a character in th movie was in a gay bar doing a dance off..He said thats his favorite and funniest scene in the movie.


    Anyway we went on and on and I said that I had to go..He said he hates this part of the phone call because when he hangs up with me, he gets depressed. He also said for me to make sure I call him when Ii get in from work..I said I will...I told him..I miss you buddy...and he goes I miss you so much Bri...


    It was without a doubt one of the sweetest/nicest/deep conversations we ever had. Talk to you guys later, Brian


    P.S. His girl is out of town the next two nights..so maybe I can get some more nice chats in with him before she gets back..he seemed more open talking about things last night, because he was in the apt alone.

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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Wow, these posts have just sucked me in. They are so heart wrenching! I could read them for hours. I am really afraid that it is going to end up bad. I hope your story has a happy ending, LostVegas.

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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Brian ...

    Your Bro ... have you mentioned his first name? ... really does sound like a tremendously amazing guy! And I truly do envy the relationship you two have managed to build!

    And now I'm going to degenerate into the 55yr old, happily "married" Gay Guy, with sex on his mind (nearly as much as when I was in my twenties), that I am! My sincerest apologies in advance! ...

    So ... considering Your Bro's very strong "Italian Stallion Syndrome", and his obvious ignorance (not in a bad way, just not Knowing) concerning "Gayness", might he have been Hinting that he might, just might, consider "doing" You (being "The Man") if the opportunity ever came up??? And would You mind if He did?? Just a thought ...

    Or ... continuing to be an utter "ass", which I'm usually not ... what do you think would happen if You took Matt to L.V., stayed with Your Bro and his Girl, with the agreement to make all kinds of "interesting noises" during the night (whether you were actually doing anything, or not)??? Do you think "She" might be disgusted, but Your Bro maybe become jealous??

    Oh ... just Shoot Me now!!

    But ... He does seem to be curious! And seems to be wanting to Learn more from/about You! Not a "Bad Thing" at all! So ... yeah! ... obviously a Very Good Friend!!

    Keep smilin'!!
    Ky
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  15. #215

    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    ^I think he definately wants to experiment w/ you. And i don't think you'd have THAT MUCH of a problem bottoming for him nw would you? lol. I mean why else would he bring that up?

  16. #216
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    I'm suspicious also that he might be trying to say he's interested!
    But, a caution: it is just possible he might be trying to use the sex angle to get you to join him sooner than planned, maybe without knowing it. My guess is that's not the case, but when people get really stressed, they can get agendas going they aren't even aware of consciously.
    Every time I read these posts I find myself wishing I could just write a check for you two to have twice-a month flights back and forth to be together... this one just made it worse. I hope things go well, because you two have such a treasure in each other, but the strain is clearly mounting.
    Hang in there!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  17. #217

    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    I've been reading this post for a long time and this is my first post.
    I just wanted to say that it seems like you're the only antidepressant he has right now.
    Do you think there is a possibility that you can fly him to NYC for a weekend or you flying to LV for a weekend? I think after those intense phone conversations you guys need to be together to be able to talk it out all night. The first option is better I think, because his girlfriend won't be around to bother you guys.
    Who knows what might happen if there are only two of you alone having a heart-to-heart conversation?
    From the way you described him crying on the phone because he misses you and being depressed, I sensed a possibility of good outcome here.

  18. #218
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Hey guys, good morning..thanks for all the continued responses and feedback...things just get odder and odder..


    It is 5:50am here..just got off the phone with him again. We were on for about 4 hours.

    Tonight it was weird. We were both down a little but none of us were doing any real talking. But it didnt really matter. I mean there was dead silence for close to 3-4 minutes and in a phone call, that seems like an eternity.

    I broke the mood by joking on him a little. The he joked on me, about being the women in my relationship.

    And then the phone call opened up and all we kept talking about was me being gay..It really really seems that he enjoys talking about it. He even said so. He said he finds it interesting and that hes learning about me.

    We made TONS of jokes back and forth about straight and gay people..There was a noise on the phone and I asked what it was and he said he was doing the laundry. Im like your talking about me being the woman and here you are doing laundry and doing dishes and cleaning(my buddy has OCD when it comes to cleaning, I call him Mrs Doubtfire..)

    He said "hey I know I have some gay tendencies Bri..".....I was in shock and just went on saying something else...and he goes "you heard me right? I said I have some gay tendencies..." He said this very non-chalantly but I was so in shock I just changed the subject..I didnt know what to say..

    We went on to talk about Matt and he asked what kind of shape he is in, etc..He talked again about him coming over to Vegas with me if I wanted..I asked if his girl knew about me(I wasnt really sure) he said yes..He said her reaction was to laugh because she didnt know why I was so hesitant to come out to her...and that she used to have a best gay friend..

    I told him "listen whenever I bring whoever Im into at the time over..you cant go becoming better friends with him, remember bro, im your brother.." and he started laughing out loud saying that I he couldnt believe I was jealous about something liek that...

    I also made the joke that me and his girl will be home alone consoling each other while my boyfriend and him are out having fun without us...He said well us boys will have to leave the ladies home from time to time...He asked again whos them an in my relationship..I said we both are..and he goes that must suck..and I go why..he goes because you prolly both want to nail each other but no one wants to be the girl..I was like lol

    We had a great/deep/funny talk and Im finding that our talks about me being gay and all that comes with it are shaping up to be some of our best talks..

    I have come to the conclusion that

    a) He is VERY gay friendly
    b)I think he is straight but very curious
    c)I dont think he will ever leave his girl
    d)I think an encounter between me and him at some point is not too far fetched
    e)I really enjoy having this closeness with my friend....my love for him aside..I have really really found a rare friend and he found a rare friend in me...its so surreal that we have each other...Talk to you guys later ..brian

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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Gay tendancies? Another plot twist! *grabs some popcorn*

  20. #220
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    ^^^Man, you got that right. Pass some popcorn over here.


    Quote Originally Posted by LostVegas
    I have come to the conclusion that

    a) He is VERY gay friendly
    b)I think he is straight but very curious
    c)I dont think he will ever leave his girl
    d)I think an encounter between me and him at some point is not too far fetched
    e)I really enjoy having this closeness with my friend....my love for him aside..I have really really found a rare friend and he found a rare friend in me...its so surreal that we have each other...Talk to you guys later ..brian
    a. To say the least
    b. I wouldn't go so far as to say straight at this point. Curious? Probably. More than curious? Probably.
    c. Never say never.
    d. Agreed.
    e. So true, and you're so lucky.

    Well, the plot does thicken. I'm not terribly surprised, except that he finally admitted it. How are you feeling now? Hopeful, because he might have the capacity to love you and have sex with you too? Or, feeling like you're competing even more for him now vis-a-vis his girlfriend.

    I also wonder what she suspects? Unless she's totally dense, she has to wonder about his emotional closeness to you, doesn't she?

    It will be very interesting to see where this goes.

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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Quote Originally Posted by greenguy
    Gay tendancies? Another plot twist! *grabs some popcorn*

    Well let me clarify some things...

    Going back now on what he said..we were on the subject of me making fun of him cleaning and doing the laundry..and then he said he knows he has gay tendencies..I THINK what he meant to say that there are things about him that SEEM gay or one might THINK is gay...not that he had tendencies to have sex with a guy...


    I just got off the phone with him and I said why dont you come home and stay here. And he said..Bro If Ii could I would do anything to come and be with you...but right in the middle of saying with, he said near you...

    He also told me to come there and he said he would cook for me every night and that he would be the bitch in the relationship...and he started laughing...anyway hes going call later tonight so I hope to update..thanks for reading..Brian

    PS. Talking to him online AOL right now, keep IMng each other how we miss each other..Im tempted to tell him..talk lata BRI

  22. #222
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    in my opinion, he is DEFINITLEY in love with you. maybe not in a relationship sort of way but who knows. its obvious that u mean a lot 2 him. i dont mean to be rude or anything, but hes showin ALOT of signs dat hes gay: constantly calling 2 u and talking 2 u, etc. n hes givin off alot of hints 2. if i had read this about halfway through i would have been convinced that u guys were in a relationship. dont give into the thought that he might be 100% straight. jus try n see into him more and when the time is right, tell him how u really feel

  23. #223
    Slut Lestat62's Avatar
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Brian,

    You have to tell him how you really feel about him. Tell him, see where you stand and get on with your relationship with him, whichever way it goes. If he's confused about his sexuality, maybe this will help him find out who he really is. He can then make a decision on his life. I just spent this entire evening reading only your posts from the very start. If your relationship is as strong as it sounds, and I believe it is, your relationship will be even closer, one way or the other. Go for it! Good luck man.

    J.

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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    I'm on the edge of my seat!

    You can't keep doing this to us!

    I can't wait to see what happens next.

    This should be made into a motion picture

    strangelittleboy

  25. #225
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    This would make a good motion picture!

    I'm totally on edge -- this is definitely more exciting than anything in my life! I SO want to hear that he and you end up in bed and he says he wants you and his girl both, and she decides she's good with that!

    Meanwhile... keep opening up to him. I still think you should let him know about having a crush on him... and tell him it never really went away.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Ok..I dont know exactly what to say. Im pretty down right now.




    I been on the phone with my buddy on and off all night. I asked him his plans and he told me he was going to the gym with his friend Anthony(someone from Brooklyn that moved out there years ago, real shady guy). Anyway, being the jealous ass I am, I immediately get down about this and tell him Im down because it should be me hanging with him and not Anthony. And he goes "I know buddy..hes no you..Im just hanging out with him, he means nothing to me.."

    So that set me in a funk the rest of the night. I know it sounds babyish and very immature, but hey, my heart feels what it feels.

    He seems to really like the fact i think that I get a jealous over this. I think it lets him know how much I care for him.

    Anyway he calls me back after we get off the phone and he tells me hes very down. He told me his father in law(or soon to be) called him and got on his case for not following through with a job..and whats going on with his daughter..she has no job either..blah blah blah...I hate this guy, hes real shady too..but anyway...so we are both down and depressed and feed off each other..

    We started to joke about little things. We both joked about panic attacks(something we both used to go through together) and we made some other jokes.

    Ever since I told him abut Matt and what type of shape he is in my buddy, to my knowledge has been a little jealous. My buddy asked me questions about Matt again..mae his usual jokes bout me being gay, etc...Then he said hes going to the gym with anthony tonight...I get a little more down...He goes when I see Matt I want him to see what good of shape that hes in..he said this half jokingly but I think he really is in competition mode with him, which is odd because they never met each other(my buddy is a VERY competitive person overall)..Then eh made a joke that he wants Matt to see him and go "daaaamn hes fine looking"..and I go buddy relax, you think just because a guy is gay that he would automatically be into you..and he got very defensive and said "nah bro its ok, i aint having any of that..Im very homophobic about that....about guys being into me like that.."

    This kind of made me more down ..I mean I know OBVIOUSLY with what I have been through with him, hes anything but homophobic..so why did he say this??? This has got me confused...I started to get really down, he said hes going to try and call me when he gets back from the gym..Hes really down too..

    He asked me if I am ok..I said no...he goes why? Is it because I'm hanging out with Anthony? And I go yes but its more than that..He goes what..and I say I cant tell you..and he goes why..I go I just cant..I said maybe I call the therapist up tomorrow and open up to him(I played this low card, because my buddy hates me talking to anyone but him, he likes the fact that he knows more about me than anyone)..He said defensively, that I have told him everything so far..so why not tell me whats bothering me..

    Im not sure if he picked up on that what he said bothered me..I think he did..the comment hurt a lot..Im kind of confused as to what to think..I just dont know..

    I will try and update you before I leave for work if he calls me later...Brian

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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    You should tell your friend that you was in love with him but you realized that that never will happen and you kinda moved on... see what he responds.... and if nothing happens you should go full monty with MATT....

  28. #228
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    You know that your friend isn't homophobic because of how he acts, so it should be clear that his words were simply badly chosen and not a reflection of his attitude.

    If you don't tell him that his words hurt you, how is he going to know? Acting hurt so he knows something's up without explaining it simply fosters misunderstandings between you. The same goes for playing games, like trying to make him jealous and so on. Ultimately it's manipulative.

    The best course, in my opinion, is to be straightforward in expressing what you feel honestly.

    Communication is important not only for lovers, but in any relationship.

  29. #229
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    You're hiding too many things, I think. You want to be with him, and you want to be WITH him -- he knows the first, but not the second. I think you need to start letting him know! And about the homophobic thing, ask him if he really meant that, 'cause you're gay, and it makes you uncomfortable hearing that. And that topic could be a lead-in to mentioning the old, and never-dead, crush.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Hey guys.


    I'm in such a deep depression and I am finding it hurtful.

    I am almost sick of seeing the way I have been and this "is he or isnt he gay" stuff. I have been in denial this whole time, letting my brain and heart play foolish mind games and tricks on me.

    I should have looked at the writing on the wall. It was written in bold and big letters. "HE IS NOT GAY OR INTO YOU".

    I know my depression the past few days has been because of this realization that I have come to in my mind. He didnt say or do anything to make me think this. For some reason this reality just hit me hard.

    I feel worthless. I feel like such a fucking loser. How could I conjure up this fantasy and even think about playing it off as if it was real.

    There are some of you who are probably saying to yourselves "about fucking time he realized this shit". Yeah about damn time.

    My heart is hurting and my gut feels like I have just been socked a million times.

    How could I BE such a naive fool.

    I read the stories on here thousands of times before I even posted and I suspect Ill see a thousand more like mine. Why was I so blind?

    I need to move on with these thoughts and I am finding it so hard. A lot of my emotion and thoughts of the future went with these ideal things that I pictured happening to me and him. What was I thinking?

    Now that these thoughts are gone, I feel very empty. I dont know how to move on from this.

    I just got off the phone with him and he said "Bri you sound very odd lately..and I know your in a depression..last night when you said you didnt feel like talking..I knew something was up..we always talk..you can tell me anything..if you cannot tell me, who can you tell?

    I dont need to tell him what Im feeling. I already know the outcome. Why do I have to make that real? So I dont have to go on living this fantasy? Believe me, im living in this fantasy world less and less each time I talk to him now and as each day passes.

    My buddy made it real hard not to fall for him. The things he said and did. But I fell for him. Hook line and sinker.

    I hope I find some way to replace this emptiness. I know I know..find something your into, a hobby perhaps..join a group..etc etc...I know this advice ie well spirited and intended but spare me.

    He is my best friend and brother. Yet at the same time there were things I did for other reasons. Reasons only I knew. Tims I went over and beyond to help him out. I tortured my heart, mind and soul. I have almost a Masters degree yet I couldnt see how this was going to end. Some of you on here warned/told me how this was going to end and I refused to see it.

    My heart is hurting with such an unbearable pain. The tears are flowing but Im so used to that. Invested so much emotionally. It is not his fault. It wasnt him that was wishing to be with me. It was me wishing to be with him. It is completely all my fault.

    I acted immature and like a child. My heart is shattered.

    I feel a million things...

    Sad.Lonely.Dumb.Immature.Blind.Naive.Alone.Lost.Co nfused.Wanting to stay in NYC now. Not caring so much about Vegas anymore.

    I feel like hurting myself..gone are the days where I would even try it anymore so dont go the I need pills and more therapy route..I just feel like it..cant I feel like it? I know we all do from time to time.

    Im almost 30. Life is so short. I feel like Im missing out on so much. I struggled for so long through my teens and all through my twenties that I feel like I missed out on so many memories. I wish I didnt get abused as a kid. Maybe then I wouldnt have felt such shame for being gay growing up and maybe I could have led a more normal life.

    I feel so alone. Im crying too much now, I need to go. I will update later..I will need to talk more. Brian


    Loving someone who cannot/will not love you back is one of the hardest pains.

  31. #231
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Brian, So sorry to hear that you're hurting. I think most of us have convinced ourselves at one point or another that if I just love someone enough it'll all work out. And it's really less painful in the short-term to believe in the fantasy, but every story has an ending.

    Just know this - you're not alone as many of us have made the same mistake. And you're NOT EVEN 30 yet! Lots of us are far older and still able to find someone to love that will love us back - you will as well now that you're not spending every spare moment in the fantasy. The fastest way I've found through the kind of pain you're experiencing right now is just to open up to it, feel it fully, wallow in it for a couple days if you need to and then get fed up with hurting and get on with life. And remember, you have a whole bunch of friends here supporting you.

  32. #232
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Brian, you've had a moment of truth, and your heart is breaking. I'm sorry for the pain you're feeling. While there's nothing I can do or say to ease that pain, I do know what it feels like and there is no pain like it. If it was an infection or a tumor, you could cut it out and feel better in a few days. But, this pain is so bad and intense and there's no medicine for it...except time.

    We're all here for you. Many of us have exerienced what you have. We survive, grow, and--yes--even find happiness again as elusive as that emotion feels at the moment.

    Hang in there. You'll survive because you're a good man with a good heart who has a good head on his shoulders.


  33. #233
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Things are just not good.

    I feel suicidal. Im crying so bad over here.

    I have so very much lost my way.

    Some of you have PMed me saying this is not something to get down about.

    I just got off the phone with my buddy. H called back because he was worried about me. I wanted to tell him and I danced around it for as long as I could, and at one point almost said it to him. But what is the point of saying it??? I know hes going to tell me that its ok, but he doesnt feel the same way.

    So why do I need to tell him?

    Im so emotionally drained.

    Im surprised no one has come on here saying that this is what I get for falling for a straight guy.

    I fell for a good hearted person who makes me whole and happy in everyway. I guess I was too blinded by all of that to see things correctly.

    My heart hurts so much.

    bri

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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    You don't know what could change if you tell him.

    Just tell him.

  35. #235
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Hun, have a scotch and get some rest. You'll have more moments like this, unfortunately. But, you'll have good times. You seemed in a much better mood a few days ago. Ups and downs I'm afraid.
    As for why you need to tell him, it's not for him so much as it is for you. He may respond the way you expect, but it might be that catalyst to get him thinking seriously about his feelings. Dunno. I tend to be a hopeless optimist.

    Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day.
    Give a man religion, and he'll starve praying for a fish.

  36. #236
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Okay...
    Unless you're a prophet, you DON'T know what he's going to say!
    From your posts, it sounds to me like he's been giving mixed signals. Dude, get your ass in gear and tell him so, tell him about your crush on him, work into giving him the whole truth!
    Maybe what you think will happen, will. But one thing: if you DON'T tell him, you've nbroken something special you two have had -- sharing everything. That's something not many people ever get, and you'd be a fool to throw it away! You KNOW he's not going to cut you off, right? So stop wallowing, and get to it!
    Besides, by not telling him, you're torturing yourself. You say you know what he'll say, but unless you tell, and he says, there will always be a little voice in your head wondering if just maybe... just maybe.... and that will eat at you, and slowly it will destroy your friendship. Brian, he can tell there's something eating at you -- if you don't tell him what, he's gonna be hurt, and the longer that goes on, the more it will eat into your friendship.

    Bottom line: call the man, and tell him.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    That was very eloquently put, Kulindahr

  38. #238

    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Hi Brian,

    I have a few questions to ask you. You say he's given you every signal that he's straight or can't return the love you have for him in the way you love him. That maybe the case, but similar to everyone's sentiments, you haven't heard it from the horses mouth and don't know what he will reveal.

    You entertain so many scenarios in your head on the possible outcomes that it's overwhelming. Hell, I'm feeling overwhelmed as I feel like I'm riding with you on your journey since you write so well. You are a gifted writer.

    Reading back on your 2nd to the last post, I think there was something said in a recent conversation that happened that made you reposition if he maybe gay or not and that conversation did not go over so well. I'm just taking a stab at things and forgive me for assuming wrongly.

    My question is, how does Matt play in your story.... are you two dating? How does he fit in the equation? He may not be your ideal man as you have pictured your buddy, but you can give him a chance too and he may be a guy who can reciprocate the way you want to be loved.

    So what if your friend tells you he can't love you the way you want to be loved. He still loves you for who you are. He's helped you get out of your shell and experience life. You can't say you've thrown your life away pining for something that you couldn't get, hasn't he returned something more to you? Hasn't he allowed you to get out of your comfort zone, meet new people, give you friendship. You even got to tell him your deepest secret in that you're gay and reading your previous post, you were so very happy in revealing that information with him. I think the rest of us were as well, you had us all on the edge or our seats!

    I know this is a statement that is beaten to death, but at the end of the day, the only person that can make you happy with yourself is YOU!

    What are your alternatives at this point? You either tell him your feelings and he says he can't love you that way leaving you with a myriad of emotions that you have to deal with, but at least it's concrete and not imaginary scenarios that plays over and over like a broken record that tortures your psyche. Who knows, he maybe gay after all given all the mixed messages you've been given. Plus, you still have Matt! Also, take into account what you've been able to do without his physical support. You've met a gay friend, are pursuing your educational/career goal, and going out.

    You have so much to live for. Rooting for ya. Here's to a better tomorrow - I hope. Take care and well wishes.

  39. #239

    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    You should just tell him to give closure to to yourself. NOt just to hope for him to suddenly hop into bed withyou. But do it so he'll give you an answer and you can move on and not have to wonder what if. What if i told him and he felt the same way. So if he does say he doesn't feel the same way, at least you've gotten it off your chest and can probably move on to another love interest with him still by yourside as your best friend. Hope you feel better, and have a good outcome in the near future.

  40. #240
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Hey guys.


    My buddy called me at 5am my time this morning.

    He asked me how I was doing because he had been worried about me. He said hes down too and pretty lost about some things. Hes afraid he wont make it out there and stuff like that.

    I told him I dont know about Vegas anymore. And I really didnt..and I still dont. He got very worried. I said Ii felt very hurt that he left and that he should only know what he means to me and how I mis him.

    I told him that as much as I could go there he can come here too. He said he knows that and if he had the money he would.

    I also told him that "your moving was and is hard...I let on that it doesnt hurt but it does...we were supposed to..." and he stops me short and goes "i know we were so you dont even have to say it..i know what you are going to say.."

    What I was going to say was how we were always going grow old together and love near each other and be happy with our lives.

    His talk calmed me down a little. I cant even count the times I cried on the phone with him last night and told him I miss him.

    He said he knows something is up and that I must be very down. He asked if its about helping him with money. I said no. He asked if its about him. I said kind of yeah. He asked if he upset me with all the stories of him hanging out with his friend there..and I said that triggered it but no thats not it..He said that he knows how I am..that it takes me a little while to open up to things but that I will eventually tell him. And he was right. I eventually will. Its just going to take a little while longer.

    Today at school a woman my age who used to work in my school came back and told us how teaching in California was just so great and how she enjoys it in Beverly Hills.

    This other woman my age in my school currently working there , who I get along with well and who is also this Cali ladies best friend..suggested that me and her go be roommates out there in Cali in the fall or maybe next year.

    It was an interesting option. One that I felt bad for considering, seeing how I didnt tell my buddy about it yet..

    But when my buddy and Ii got off the phone, he called me back 5 minutes later saying he had an anxiety attack and that hes down and depressed. We are too much alike, we even feel the same things around the same time. I love him so much.

    Will update more later, Brian xoxoxoxo

  41. #241
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Hey guys back here with a small Saturday update..

    Even though the situations are the same..I am at least feeling a little bit better.

    Yesterday my buddys girl actually called me and we stayed on the phone for over and hour. I had her laughing a lot and we talked about just everything.

    My buddy then got on the phone and said that hes not in a good mood, but is happy that I was sounding better.

    He said I can always talk to him no matter what. It told my buddy about that girl asking me to room with her in Cali and he got upset and sad and said that he would be hurt if I went to live in Cali but that he would be right behind because he would want to move close to me. He even said that even if he makes it out there in Vegas that he might come back to NYC to be near me.

    The gay issue came up again and my buddy was cracking jokes and I was just saying some jokes too. The call waiting rang and I switched over, it was Matt..he wanted to come by and pick me up and take me to his place to chill..and I switched back saying bro I have to go Matt is coming to pick me up..

    He goes "your hanging up with me to chill with Matt??? Whats up with that? What are you guys going to do, get kinky?" He kept asking for a pic of Matt and I said bro Im in a rush I will send you it tonight..hes like it takes 30 seconds just send me..Im like why do you care so much what he looks like..and he goes I want to see..

    Well I wound up hanging up with him and chillin with Matt..

    My buddy called me later that night and asked me what I did with Matt..I said we watched a movie..he goes what movie..I go...um....er......ok buddy you got me..we didnt watch a movie ..he busts out laughing saying..oh shit..and he asked some more questions.

    But over all I still have feelings for him. I will definitely tell him soon. And I am learning to move on from this.But very slowly.

    I was so invested emotionally with my buddy..and when I finally realized I have to let go of him in that way..that I dont have to let go of his friendship..that I can have one without the other..but it is hard..and lord knows I am trying...thanks for the continued advice and support..brian...talk to you all shortly.

    P.S.-Matt is a great guy. Great looks, great in bed. But thats about it. Our personalities are nowhere near something that would be able to last with me. I need someone more like my buddy. And no I am not comparing them to my buddy, but I need someone morel like him in some ways. Bri

  42. #242

    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    P.S.-Matt is a great guy. Great looks, great in bed. But thats about it.
    So you actually did the deed with Matt? lol. Great fo you if you did

  43. #243
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Yes the deed was done with Matt. And it was so nice.

  44. #244

    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    hahahahaha. I coudl only imagine how jealous your friend became, if you told him or not lol. but like I said before great for you.

  45. #245
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Brian,

    Glad to see that you're in a better mood. Started to worry a little when you didn't post anything for more than a day. As you can see, you can have your close friendship with your bro and a relationship with another... although Matt is not long term, congrats!

    J.

  46. #246
    JUB Addict LostVegas's Avatar
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Tpeezy...yeah I did tell him and yes I think he was jealous. Maybe jealous that I was with a guy, maybe jealous because hes not getting much from hiw wife..I dont know, could be many things...

    Lestat thanks for the concern, I am in a better mood and I would never do anythng to hurt myself...Although thoughts sometimes go through my mind, thats all they are..years ago I was in a severe deep depression..through meeting my buddy and him letting me open up to him..Im in much brighter place now...thanks..Brian

  47. #247
    HA! ;-)
    Kyanimal's Avatar
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    This is Good! ... This is Better!!

    And, THANK YOU!, again, Brian, for sharing this, and keeping us all updated!

    Of course (seriously) ...

    Keep smilin'!!
    Ky
    WISDOM is the Knowledge you've gained ... After you could have used it! _Me

  48. #248
    Slut Lestat62's Avatar
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    That's great Brian! Good to hear that you're a smart, level-headed guy and wouldn't do anything that drastic.

    Joe.

  49. #249
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Makes me happy to read the updates, dude!
    I'm actually envious -- you have such an awesome buddy, even though there's that distance between you, and now you have someone to share bodily pleasures with! ROCKIN'!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  50. #250
    JUB Addict LostVegas's Avatar
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    Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

    Hey guys whats up...


    Feeling a lot of anxiety tonight and like something is sitting on my chest...I hate having anxiety/panic attacks...


    Called my buddy to get less anxious...and he sounded down..I asked why and he said that he had gotten into a fight with his girl and he said some mean things..I said what..the C word? He goes no worse..He said that she called him fat and that he said "yeah but all the girls still wanna suck my dick"

    He had gone out the night before with anthony who is very shady and Im sure my buddy was flirting with all the girls..


    I got pissed because he said that to his girl and down because its just another statement that shows me how straight he is...


    Talk to you all later..brian


    P.S. He asked if Im helping him out with some money and I said I should be able to on Tuesday.

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