For OUT guys: Are you bothered or offended by closet cases?

[Full Force]

I'm not out and am no where near a place where I see it happening anytime in the foreseeable future. Sure it has a lot to do with possible rejection and stuff, but when I think about it I think I would be uncomfortable with people knowing even if they for the most part accepted it. But enough about me.

My question for OUT guys, are you offended by closeted guys?

I was reading through this forum and came across some posts from a few people who said that they think it's every gay persons DUTY to come out...especially if they are famous.

What's your position on this?

[xianchen]

No way. It's your choice, your life. if you feel uncomfortable then stay inside. Don't put yourself in harms way if you think that's what would happen. Play safe, play cool.

[Aaron]

Not offended. I respect the decision, although, they shouldn't expect to get a favourable response if they make a pass at me.

[joer]

Nope, not bothered nor offended. It's each individuals choice as to whether they are out or not.

[ronboy]

What's to be offended about? Because of my career, I am closeted at work, but out at home. There may come a time when it will be all right to come out at work, and I'll do it matter of factly. People have various reasons, both stated and unstated for the varying degrees that they remain in the closet. It's all good. Each person, and each circumstance is different. I respect a person's right, to proudly be out, but I want the same courtesy for still being partially in the closet...

[ummagumma]

Hell no, I'd have no problem. I'm not all the way out yet, myself. But I'll always how how it feels to be in the closet, so I can certainly sympathize. I'd encourage them to come out when they're ready, but I would not pass judgment on them for wanting a very private, personal part of their life to remain that way.

The only problem I'd have with it would be in terms of a relationship. It would be pretty difficult to have a meaningful, sustained relationship if the other person wanted to hide it to the point that we couldn't live together, visit each others' friends and families, and so on.

[porter]

not at all.. its doesnt really depend on the circumstances.. if the person isnt comfortable or ready.. i think they should take their time. and even if they dont ever come out, its still ok...

but i guess im a little bothered by ppl who are fully aware of their homosexuality and still choose to get married.. its not very fair to the other person in the relationship.. but there are a few exceptions..

[ahotjock71]

There is a time & place for everything. The main thing is that the guy come to terms with his sexuality in his own mind. Screw everybody else. He he

[General_Alfie]

"Offended" is not the word I would prefer using to describe my thoughts about closeted gays, but it will do. I would have perhaps used "saddened," or "perplexed" because I am saddened that some gays cannot "connect" with their gay identity; "perplexed" because I know that accepting and exploring one's sexuality is a unique opportunity for personal growth. You see, we can create our own unique way of living our lives -- we aren't chained to the heterosexual mundanity of having kids and raising a family and going to soccer practices -- our lives can e so much more adventurous and unconventional.

I don't doubt that there are plenty of guys who truly are at personal risk if they revealed their sexuality and I have true sympathy for them. But far, far more men are simply too afraid, too uncertain, too comfortable to make the leap into a brave and uncharted new world.

Laziness, sloth, fear are not sufficient reasons to defer, delay or decline to come out. Anyone, after all, can be a coward, a fake, a pretender: don't let it be you.

[sixthson]

I've been out a long time and am not bothered by how others lead their lives. Each must decide for themselves.

I'm also not bothered by homOsexuals who want to spend their lives marching in parades, being angry homOsexual activists or even breeding dogs. To each his own.

You will come out when the time is right for you. Not being public about it is not the same as being ashamed of yourselves as some would have you believe. They are ignorant, ignore them.

[jaseybrite]

Nobody has the right to make choices for other people. To be "offended" that someone is closeted to me is pretentiousness on the part of the offendee. How is it any of their business?

[sendoutforscotch]

Sorry, this one touches a nerve with me.

While I will respect the choice of each individual with regard to any public declaration of his sexuality (hey, it's none of my damn business, anyway), I don't have a helluva lotta respect for that small number of affluent guys who intentionally live a double life -- being "decently" married (to a woman) with kids, and at the same time screwing strangers at the book store/video store, highway rest areas, or dropping into a bar for a fast hookup. They're the guys who'll carry a fresh change of clothes in a gym bag in the trunk of their car, with which to change into (in the garage) when they come home late from a "meeting". They're the guys who'll sell their soul (and their dick) for a nice house in a gated community, membership at an exclusive golf club, and a "respected" position in the social community.

They're lying to everyone, and respectable to no one.

[revitalizedstud]

No way I'm offended, I'm still trying to figure where I'm at! I think I'm in closet's closet. Like I said I can't figure where i fall except very unsure of my sexuality. If I came out, I would lose every single person in my life, A lot of U say o come 0n that can't be true. All remaining parts of my family & my friends are positively against homosexuality, they have expressed it, some think that's a sin and there is no convincing them other wise! So if I came out I would definitley lose everyone that has meant so much to me!

[Soilwork]

yeah, kinda.

I hate to admit it, but I've got little patience for closeted men. I've made no secret of it in the past, and see little reason to pretend any different now.

Guys who haven't come to grips with their sexuality is one thing.. and I get that.. Hey, I denied it until I was about 18-19 too.

I'm talking about guys who know that they're gay, marry women as cover, fuck men behind their wives backs.. not gonna pretend I'm a fan.

Guys who are so freaking worried that someone might think they're weird or that they might have to make a few new friends.. if your life is defined by what other's think of you, I have little patience for you, either.

Guys who go to bath houses and parks to get their dicks sucked but are outwardly homophobic in public. Fuck that shit.

Guys who come up with some lame reason for not coming out when the real reason is that they just don't have the guts to admit they're gay.. sorry, can't get behind that.

[Soilwork]

OH, and why did you make this a public poll? you're not going to get a real responce if people are going to have to give an unpopular response.

I won't even answer the poll, and I think Iwas pretty up front with my attitudes in my last post.

[MadeUpName27]

I am only offended by closet cases who knowingly and willingly conspire with our enemies.

For a good example, see the thread in CE&P about Rev. Lonnie Latham - Baptist Preacher, Anti-Gay Activist and Self-Loathing Cocksucker.

[RKuper]

I am everything soilwork hates! I consider myself bisexual, in the closet, and YES even in a relationship with a gay man who is out! I want to make it clear though that I am in love with Eric, my BF, and have been faithful to him for over two years. Eric thinks he can change me and is convinced I will eventually have my coming out, cheerfully admitting my gayness!

Needless to say I have no problem with guys in the closet!

[eddielee]

Some people have a good reason to be in the closet. People can be very hostile to openly gay people in my area. While I don't pretend to be straight, I don't announce to everyone that I'm gay. A few of my family members know and some close friends. My boss came out about 10 years ago. He was harassed and threatened. He was fired because he was told that his employee's couldn't respect working under a gay man. I applaud anyone in a position or in an area where than can openly be gay. I don't condemn people who have a good reason to stay in the closet. I don't like gay people that will join in with organizations that condemn homosexuality. In other words, they suck dick on Saturday and go to a homophobic Church on Sunday.

[quasar]

Coming out is a personal choice. As General_Alfie said, I too am more saddened that people find themselves in the position whereby they feel they can't come out. As a 'minority' we get enough criticism and condemnation from the str8 community - without turning on each other.

I am more offended by members of our community who seem to think it is their mission in life to go on a witch-hunt and 'out' certain people, but I am equally offended by closeted gay people who whinge about being in the closet.

[Carey]

I don't agree with gays who make fools out of people of the opposite sex by entering into loveless str8 marriages...only because that's decieving another person. Far as gays who just aren't out, so? It's their life. Whose place is it to get mad because of someone else's life choice? I find the gays who are preachy about coming out like its a "duty" to the gay community to be the most offensive!

[NightRaider]

I have no problem with being out or in the closet or a selected outness. It's the indidviduals choice and their life. I have been discussing this subject with people for years and for every 10 reasons to be out I can give 20 not to be. My views on being out are liberal and truly believe it is up to the individual as to how much they wish to come out. I have said it before and still believe coming out is not for everybody.(Read my blog) It kind of pisses me off to hear the crap about not being honest with one's self etc etc yadda yadda yadda...... What a load of crap! If these self righteous outed gays would stop preaching that you must come out and have some compassion and understanding for the one's who's live's are different than theirs we all could be better people for it.

[surge]

It's pretty stupid for any gay guy to be offended by it. All gay guys were in the closet at one point. It's stupid that they're mad at people who are still in the closet just because them themselves are older and have everything in their life in order and aren't in a bad situation. You especially can't blame the younger guys. If you come out too early in this time period under certain situations, it could ruin your life. I do agree that it's stupid for someone to stay in the closet their whole life though. Atleast be out by 30.

And no, stupid isn't a strong word.

[Soliloco]

I voted no, i mean they don't offend me.. at most i can only feel pity for them.
But, what really pissed me off is closeted cases that use homophobic jokes or attitudes to avoid "being discovered"
Oh man, i usually kick those out the closet as fast as i can

[Whitacre]

The only thing i hate sometimes is when a VERY APPARENT gay guy says he has a girlfriend. Im not very gay acting, so i guess i can udnerstand hiding it if you dont know me and/or think im straight, but just say youre gay, or dont say anything at all.

[Clifw]

I don't mind guys who stay in the closet at all. But it does bug me when they marry to keep up appearances and, even worse, when they have kids because that's hurting other people.

[1gayguy]

I'm not offended but I do feel pity for time spent wasted not living life.I know this because I didn't come out until I was about 30. All that time and energy wasted, lieing to myself and others, worrying about what others think. Such a waste.

[Nightmare]

Nope, not offended. If people don't want to come out, they don't have to. Or if they're not ready, then they can come out when they're most comfortable. Everybody has their own life, they live it the way they feel most comfortable. And you should live it the way you feel most comfortable,.

[Enigmatic_Chaos]

Mixed feelings. I think most "out" guys like me remember a time when we WEREN'T out, so when we see closeted guys it reminds of us that dark and not so happy place and at the same time we get frustrated BECAUSE we know how much better life is when you decide to stop hiding or dening that fundamental part of yourself and instead decide to OWN it.

But everyone's life and circumstances ARE different. Not everyone's shoes fit the same, so I can respect someone's decision to remain closeted.

What bothers me though are the closeted guys who hate themselves so much that they feel they must bash and belittle any and all things gay. That's just ugly.

[snoopydog]

I am soon to be 39, and I was closeted until I was 37. I tried so hard to live a straight life. No, I didn't marry a female or raise kids, nor would I. But, I did try to be a christian for almost 20 years.

Now I am completely out, and life is much better. I don't have someone in my life, and have pretty much given up on any LTR at my age, but, by being completely out, maybe I can someday have a BF. That would be more than good enough.

As for condemning closeted guys, hey, like I said, I was one for almost 20 years. You don't have my condemnation. You have my sympathy.

You also have my hopes that someday you, too, can have the freedom of an openly gay existence.

[HoodedRat]

I am not bothered or offended, but I must admit that, back when I first joined JUB, I was extremely surprised to find out just how many guys here are in the closet. There was a poll I read once that seemed to show that only about one third considered themselves to be totally out. I have always considered "totally out" to mean that you couldn't care less who knows about your sexuality and have no fear of anyone knowing that you are gay (not that you necessarily shout it out to everyone you meet).

Every since I came out (way back at the end of the 70s), I've never given a second thought to who knows about my sexuality; over the years I must've come out to just about everyone, as and when the conversation left an opening.

I can understand that this is not possible for many people due to the repressive regimes under which they live (for example, the whole "death penalty" thing in Islamic countires), but I am surprised that in the 21st century, in the self-proclaimed "Land of the Free" so many guys seem to live in fear of anyone finding out about their sexuality.

[revitalizedstud]

These are all valid points, I would agree with U about gays who marry just to hide behind it, If U have a wife, U are pretending to be loyal to her & still sucking a dick, that's not being loyal & it's wrong! On the other hand I don't think those who are out should go around trying to out other people, I think that's wrong! It's a person choice whether they want to come out or not & they shouldn't receive any flack from the gay community. Hey it's a person's choice if they want to stay in the closet the rest of their lives or even denie that they are gay, bi or what ever it's their choice. I hate this comment, about well "if your family or friends can't except you for who u are you should forget them!" What, that's a cold hearted comment in my book, "Oh, but U can make new friends", These are the type of comments a Cult would try to influence you with. I'm very close to my family & I have really close relationships with my friends & I' m sure as hell not going to throw them away! I really object to these comments. To sum it up it's a person's choice, if they want to stay in the closet, then they should be able to stay in the closet!!!!!

[mega]

I'm not offended, just disappointed.

[Elwood]

HMMM where do I start on this one? O:K, Hi my name is Kevin and I am an ex married closeted gay guy. However in my case when I was younger I guess I never realized I was gay. I thought I was bisexual (Down Soilwork down!!lol) and I thought I would be happy with a women . As a kid and a teenager I always wanted to get married and have kids. I had a boyfriend when I was 17 (he approached me) and we eventually lost touch and I never really thought about having another boyfriend and I did what my friends were doing meeting women.

Well I got together with my ex-wife I guess I was around 26 or 27, we eventually moved in together and had kids. After the we had kids the relationship slowly went downhill. I was just miserable and could not figure out why. So I spoke to my DR and he sent me to therapy
were I finally came to the conclusion that I AM GAY. Now wonder I was not happy.

I left my ex- wife two years ago and I have been happily living life as a gay man. I am slowly opening the closet door I told my ex-wife before Christmas and she was cool with it, she was actually mad that I did not tell her sooner. I began telling friends as well and things are going very well people are being very supportive. I do not plan on telling everybody, but if anyone asks I will no longer hide it "Yes I am gay Dammit You got a problem with that?!" I definatly do not plan on coming out to my family which I probably should before they hear it from somebody else.

So in answer to the question, no I do not hold anything against people who choose to stay in the closet. But I do have a problem with married men who cheat with another man and reason to themselves that it is not cheating because it is with another man that is just plain wrong. It also gives bisexuals a bad wrap.

[RenaissanceMan]

I'm one of those closet cases...although I never "pretend"...more like I simply don't mention anything that would qualify me as straight and rather sometimes I'll say/do something a bit suspect/gay...I'm simply not saying the words (much, I have come out to a select individual) for many reasons...and yes, fear is one of them. Why someone would find it bothersome or disappointing that I'm not out is offending to ME...lol.

What is disappointing is that we live in a world where it's not always possible to easily be out and not destroy everything in your life. I might come out fully or partially if I have the need (a boyfriend)...right now, if I came out, I think most would not understand why...but if I had a boyfriend who I was serious about, that would change things quite a bit...of course I'd have to be quite sure.

[LonelyGuy335]

I voted no, I'm not bothered. Mostly because it would hypocritical of me to be offended just like straight guys are "offended" or "uncomfortable" around us. Just my two cents.

[General_Alfie]

I find the gays who are preachy about coming out like its a "duty" to the gay community to be the most offensive!

I don't believe anyone has made that argument -- not one person made the claim that coming out is a "duty" to the community, but many have stated that coming out and affirming one's sexuality is a duty we owe to ourselves.

Nor do I believe that anyone is being "preachy." Anyone who has endured even a fraction of their adulthood living in the closet knows how unproductive and indeed how detrimental and growth-inhibiting a closeted life can be. Encouraging closeted folks to come out and to live a life that is true and meaningful is an act of kindness, not a form of attack.

[ummagumma]

I didn't read that post the first time (I usually skip over them, for obvious reasons), but damn. I erased what I was about to post because it'd probably get *me* banned, so I'll let the moderators handle that one.

[CorkyMcG]

I am not offended when people choose to stay in the closet - as I feel that is a personal choice for the individual as to whether they come out or not.

What does offend me - is when someone seems to try and force others to share their same values or way of thinking... like, making a blanket statement that "all gay people need to come out" (who are they to say what someone else needs to do?) ... or, those who say that "gay people who haven't come out haven't accepted their sexuality." (Who are they to say what or how other people are thinking?)

Many people who do not come out have valid reasons why they remain closeted. Some have jobs or careers where coming out would not be appropriate, or they might lose their job if they did. Other people believe that their coming out could hurt those around them they love very much and they don't want to hurt those people. I know some, too, who just don't believe that it is anybody's business but their own who knows or who doesn't.

But, whether or not anybody else finds these reasons valid is beside the point... to me - if someone thinks their reason for not coming out of the closet is valid - that's all that matters.

[halubtsi]

I'm not offended or disappointed with closet cases either. I was there once...and fairly recently too. As long as the closet case doesn't start pretending he's straight by marrying a woman and having children, then I have no qualms with him. I take serious issue with married closet-cases who cheat on their wives and feel no remorse or guilt for the infidelity they're committing.

[LonelyGuy335]

This is out of sheer ignorance and curiosity, but could someone explain to me why that comment was uncalled for. I'm not supporting it or anything, but I'm just not entirely sure what it means. Can someone PM me about it. Thanks.

[chilly_willy]

gay people should be the last to be bashing other gays. whether or not a person is "straight acting" or "closeted" doesn't make them any less gay or any less of a person.

[Sausy]

This is out of sheer ignorance and curiosity, but could someone explain to me why that comment was uncalled for. I'm not supporting it or anything, but I'm just not entirely sure what it means. Can someone PM me about it. Thanks.

I'lldo better than PM you-I'll explain it short and sweet here,since I wish to have nothing to do with an Alfie post ever again!He and Sixthson have had their disagrrements recently-sixthson being more conservative politically-and maybe Sixthson had been a little cutesy with his indirect jabs at General Alfie,a little petulant,but never outright cruel and unfair!Alfie had no right to slander the family arrangement of Sixthson's household!Neither Sixthson or his partner of the last twenty years are in the closet,and the reference to Sixthson's partner as a dog screwer was total sewage !To have a family is a dream many gay and lesbian couples would like to make reality for themselves-the wish for a family is not ilimited to straight married couples!Theyare most certainly not attempting to fit in to a straight world-who appointed Alfie judge of the human heart!THey first adopted a son from a romanoian orphanage several years back,and over the past few months they adopted the boy's younger brothers-they kept a family that was without a mother or father,stuck in an orphanage needing love and support,together-a pretty amazing thing!Once without hope in Romania,the boys have a chance for happiness and prosperity that they may never have known without the love and compassion of Sixthson and his partner!I don't want to see Alfie punished for this except in realizing what a terrible thing he did in petty revenge over a silly and harmless teasing by Sixthson!this is now located in a no-flame thread,so Alfie,watch your response carefully!I won't make you a martyr to the leftists here who eagerly buy your junk,so I urge only that a warning be issued-his post probably occured before the switch from Hot Topics to this no-flame thread,so a banning would be too steep in this case a punishment,if the possibility exists in this situation.You should measure the emotional consequences of your words,as well as what that does to the community of JUB at large.I pity you,sir!

[Eagle653]

Thanks, sausageeater for clarifying some of this.

I want to echo what sausageeater said about this thread now being in a no-flame zone. When Alfie posted his first post that has generated this reaction, it was in Hot Topics where there is more leaway in the types of posts. Now, it is in a No Flame Zone and we need to keep it that way.

Thanks, all.

Now,

[hotdog1846]

Thanks, sausageeater for clarifying some of this.

I want to echo what sausageeater said about this thread now being in a no-flame zone. When Alfie posted his first post that has generated this reaction, it was in Hot Topics where there is more leaway in the types of posts. Now, it is in a No Flame Zone and we need to keep it that way.

Thanks, all.

Now,

Oh. Thanks for the clarification, averageguy.

[LonelyGuy335]

Thanks so much for the clarification, sausageeater... makes a lot more sense to me... and thanks to everyone else who sent me PMs about it as well. I had no idea it personally related to another Jubber...

[sb]

It bothers me that people support the anti gay agenda by living their life as something they are not... or giving people the impression they are something they are not. It bothers me that people hate themselves so much they wont be themselves.

It offends me because staying in the closet says to me that your sexuality is something to be ashamed of. It offends me that people tangle others in their self hatred such as wives and children....

It annoys me when people who have chosen to stay in the closet say they do it because life is easier if you are straight...

so thats a yes and a yes from me....

[chilly_willy]

people have the right to live their lives as they choose, including closeted.

[flash729]

It's all part of the process... in or out. I'm not going to be someone that's going to try to force my opinion on someone else... "live and let live." Just wished the gay community was so polarized on certain issues -- united we could make an unbelieveable force.
-Flash

[Soilwork]

It's all part of the process... in or out. I'm not going to be someone that's going to try to force my opinion on someone else... "live and let live." Just wished the gay community was so polarized on certain issues -- united we could make an unbelieveable force.
-Flash

it's pretty difficult to "Unite" with people who don't have the guts to come out, unfortunately.

[FREDDIE187]

I don't have a problem with a guy in the closet. But I do think it can be very sad. If a guy knows he is gay and pretends no to be, he can loose out so much.

How are you ever going to have a meaningfull relationship with another gay if you are in the closet?

Think of all the oppertunities you miss because gay guys think you are straight.

One day when you finally come out, you will always regret the lost years.