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  1. #2101
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    It's interesting that your system is being unravelled while our system in Ontario is expanding. Beginning next year, Ontario will be offering over 400 free prescriptions to younger people 25 years old and younger as long as they have an OHIP card (Ontario Health Insurance Plan). Many of the prescriptions are for mental conditions and chronic health conditions such as diabetes, asthma, etc.
    No kidding. The GOP seems determined to make health care more expensive and less available, for no other reason than to avoid the cheaper universal care approach just because it's "socialism".

    But that's the mark of ideology: no facts, no logic, just hate.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    It's not lowering the corporate rate that resulted in the $1.5tn additional debt, it's the breaks for the super-wealthy. It's typical GOP strategy: make things worse for the poor so they don't have the time or energy to be
    Hmmm... well, actually the majority of the shortfall is from the corporate tax cut. It's hard to separate "corporations" from "people" because they made some significant rate reductions on "pass-through corporations" which are officially corporations but they flow into a personal tax return.

    The tax cuts actually lowered the revenue into the government by $1.6 trillion but there was about another $200 million in revenue increases, so the net ended up being close to $1.46 trillion in revenue reduction (read: deficit increase) over a 10 year period.

    Of that $1.6 trillion, $1 trillion of it comes from lowering the top corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. The true sin of this legislation is not that it lowered the corporate tax rate; the sin is that it kept most of the existing loopholes and special tax exemptions. Very few corporations actually pay 35%. Because of all of the loopholes and exemptions, most are paying significantly less. So, with the retained loopholes that lower the effective rate AND the lowering of the rate to 21%, it's unclear how much corporations will actually be paying, so the numbers may be worse than $1 trillion in revenue lost in the end.
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  3. #2103
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    Hmmm... well, actually the majority of the shortfall is from the corporate tax cut. It's hard to separate "corporations" from "people" because they made some significant rate reductions on "pass-through corporations" which are officially corporations but they flow into a personal tax return.

    The tax cuts actually lowered the revenue into the government by $1.6 trillion but there was about another $200 million in revenue increases, so the net ended up being close to $1.46 trillion in revenue reduction (read: deficit increase) over a 10 year period.

    Of that $1.6 trillion, $1 trillion of it comes from lowering the top corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. The true sin of this legislation is not that it lowered the corporate tax rate; the sin is that it kept most of the existing loopholes and special tax exemptions. Very few corporations actually pay 35%. Because of all of the loopholes and exemptions, most are paying significantly less. So, with the retained loopholes that lower the effective rate AND the lowering of the rate to 21%, it's unclear how much corporations will actually be paying, so the numbers may be worse than $1 trillion in revenue lost in the end.
    All that, when both Ryan and Trump said loopholes were going to be closed.

    Once again, liars will be liars.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  4. #2104
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    All that, when both Ryan and Trump said loopholes were going to be closed.

    Once again, liars will be liars.
    The frustrating thing is that I've been reading legislation for years, starting with draft legislation through the final Bill. I've never seen legislation like the "bills" that the Republicans have been passed this year (and this stuff has been a completely Republican effort, not the least bit bipartisan). They're just short of being written with crayons on a cocktail napkin. Everyone has been scrambling to read the legislation after it was passed to figure out who got the goodies and who got the shaft.

    The Orwellian "Tax Cuts and Jobs Act" is a 500+ page bill. It's hard to know exactly which version was the last version that was scored by the CBO because this bill started with some special interest group and was written by a bunch of Congressmen in the wee hours of the night with no hearings, no expert testimony and no economic analysis. History tells us that when Congress makes significant changes in economic legislation, it generally distorts the economy, leading to boom-bust situations.

    If this is the way Congress intends to do business, it's time to clean house and get people who understand (or are not willing to feign ignorance of) the legislative process.
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  5. #2105
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    The future of Trumpcare?

    Man captures video of "patient dumping" outside Baltimore hospital

    The point of trying to provide comprehensive coverage for the poor is to provide a means for hospitals and other care providers to have some compensation in these cases so crap like this doesn't happen. We need a default public option that kicks in to cover those who have no insurance.
    ďYou canít con people, at least not for long. You can create excitement, you can do wonderful promotion and get all kinds of press, and you can throw in a little hyperbole. But if you donít deliver the goods, people will catch on.Ē


  6. #2106
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    ^ I'm stunned. I can't imagine that happening, especially in sub-freezing weather.

    I'm actually speechless here.
    "A smile is the shortest distance between two people." - Victor Borge

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    ^ I'm stunned. I can't imagine that happening, especially in sub-freezing weather.

    I'm actually speechless here.
    Why are you stunned? Republican healthcare operates under the crawl off and just fucking die already principle. You can't jeopardize profit by paying to heal slackers, wetbacks, and lazy Negroes.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  8. #2108
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    ^ How can they not be criminally charged? Is that considered 'legal'?
    "A smile is the shortest distance between two people." - Victor Borge

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    The future of Trumpcare?

    Man captures video of "patient dumping" outside Baltimore hospital

    The point of trying to provide comprehensive coverage for the poor is to provide a means for hospitals and other care providers to have some compensation in these cases so crap like this doesn't happen. We need a default public option that kicks in to cover those who have no insurance.
    Well, the issue isn't Trumpcare, per se. It's Medicaid (Medi-cal in California) and the lack of community resources like half-way houses and assisted living facilities.

    The same thing happens a lot with public psych facilities- unless there's a family member that shows up at the hospital to pick up the patient, they're given their clothes, a small amount of money and driven to the bus station or to a homeless shelter.

    It's about to get worse- the US House has proposed two disturbing bills- one would repeal the patient-dumping requirements of EMTALA and the other would attach a work requirement to Medicaid (meaning people would only be eligible for Medicaid if they worked or did public service).
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  10. #2110
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    ^ How can they not be criminally charged? Is that considered 'legal'?
    American principle, everything is legal unless proven otherwise.
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  11. #2111
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    The same thing happens a lot with public psych facilities- unless there's a family member that shows up at the hospital to pick up the patient, they're given their clothes, a small amount of money and driven to the bus station or to a homeless shelter.
    I've read about that happening for years, but it's a little different wheeling someone out of a hospital where they went to get help to a bus stop in freezing weather in only a hospital gown. That, to me, is cruel, heartless, and inhumane. Money should not be more important than someone's life.
    "A smile is the shortest distance between two people." - Victor Borge

  12. #2112
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    I believe that EMTALA applies to everyone, not just Medicaid patients. The whole system is at sea, alas.
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    I've read about that happening for years, but it's a little different wheeling someone out of a hospital where they went to get help to a bus stop in freezing weather in only a hospital gown. That, to me, is cruel, heartless, and inhumane. Money should not be more important than someone's life.
    It's the same issue. A lot of the homeless in cities where State Hospitals are located were discharged from the State Hospital. It's a revolving door. They are admitted for mental illness. The State Hospital gets them on meds. They get better. They get discharged. There's no plan to re-integrate them into society. They have no money to buy their psych meds. They don't take their meds. They have another psychic break. They end up back in the State Hospital (or quite often, they end up in county jails). And the cycle starts over.

    There are Federal regulations (and laws in some States) that require discharge planning. Unfortunately, when the patient has no family members, has mental illness and has no ability to pay, the options for where to discharge them to becomes a problem. There's no easy answer when there's no place that has available outpatient beds.
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  14. #2114
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    The future of Trumpcare?

    Man captures video of "patient dumping" outside Baltimore hospital

    The point of trying to provide comprehensive coverage for the poor is to provide a means for hospitals and other care providers to have some compensation in these cases so crap like this doesn't happen. We need a default public option that kicks in to cover those who have no insurance.
    This is the Republican Health Care Plan. Unless you are working and can pay for it -- better to just drop you off and let you die so that you won't be a problem to society. That "pro-life" mentality is certainly of value; about as much as their "pro-family" stances that are usually dashed when the Republican official is found sucking cock in his office or banging his office staff or the local waitress at the diner.

    As a former President of a small, rural hospital (that no longer exists because it had to be sold to a larger hospital in order to remain financially viable), this problem is not limited to just Baltimore or large cities. We used to set aside nearly 1/3 of our $16 million budget for "uncompensated care:" care that we needed to provide as a small, community hospital and that we knew we'd never receive payment for. All hospitals face the same struggle and the Affordable Care Act (also known as Obamacare) provided the first opportunity to reverse that crisis because everyone would have insurance and, therefore, care would be paid for on an individual patient basis versus trying to raise rates enough and charge only those who could afford insurance. The bullshit talking points used by Ben and others that ACA was somehow "socialist" or "communist" is just that; bullshit.

    Hospitals, doctors, and professionals have to make a living. If they can't collect from some patients, they have no choice but to charge others more and cover the losses. Rural hospitals, under the Republican plain, will soon be no more (one only needs to look at Louisiana and other red states to find even larger hospitals in crisis).

    In my small community, we worked with community mental health, our hospital, and other non-profits to get people assistance so they would not end up warehoused in jails or the prison system. It costs about $50,000 to house an inmate per year; it costs about half of that to put them in normal housing and keep them treated. In addition, it removes the pressure on courts, the stigma of homeless and panhandling, and is likely to result in them working and paying taxes (much to Republican's delight).

    However, Republicans would rather warehouse them in private prisons that reward their donors handsomely. It's a lose-lose system that European countries far distance themselves ahead of what we do in the U.S.
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  15. #2115
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    the US House has proposed two disturbing bills- one would repeal the patient-dumping requirements of EMTALA

    and the other would attach a work requirement to Medicaid
    If I could readily find my posts, I would put links to them. I HAVE BEEN WARNING PEOPLE ABOUT THIS FOR YEARS AND YEARS. I knew that Republicans would eventually try to repeal this EMTALA bill, which was originally signed by President Ronald Reagan in, I think, 1987.

    As for the second, would that mean that ALL PATIENTS, who are now getting nursing home care under Medicaid, would be expelled and denied care? Sounds like euthenasia to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    It's the same issue. A lot of the homeless in cities where State Hospitals are located were discharged from the State Hospital. There's no plan to re-integrate them into society.
    Two friends who worked at a State Hospital that was shut down in 1982 under the Reagan-era cuts to psychiatric care, told me horrific stories that will haunt me to my grave. They had to be involved in the final interactions with patients that were being forced out of all care (while the Hospital was being closed down...and, of course, it was repurposed as a prison), and they were the ones who were told to give the discharged patients $50 and a one-way bus ticket to Chicago. A couple of these patients were scared, terrified, and screaming that it was probably tantamount to a death sentence, which it very likely was. IT WAS IN JANUARY IN THE MIDDLE OF WINTER.
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  16. #2116
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    If I could readily find my posts, I would put links to them. I HAVE BEEN WARNING PEOPLE ABOUT THIS FOR YEARS AND YEARS. I knew that Republicans would eventually try to repeal this EMTALA bill, which was originally signed by President Ronald Reagan in, I think, 1987.
    I've been on the fence about the EMTALA absoluteness- hospitals that receive Medicare are not allowed to ask about insurance until after the patient is seen by the ED physician or a nurse practitioner. Reasonably, there's no other business that is required to provide services to customers who may not be able to pay.

    Rep Pete Stark of California was one of the authors of the EMTALA mandates. At a speech that I saw Rep Stark make at a conference, he was asked by a hospital administrator about these "unfunded mandates". Stark's position was that the US taxpayers give billions of dollars to hospitals from US government spending; they subside the education of most people who get a healthcare-related degrees in the US and they subsidize physician training programs in hospitals; he told the administrator that hospitals and physicians were expected to repay the taxpayers' largess by providing charity services to the taxpayers who couldn't afford to pay when they needed healthcare.

    Before the ACA mandated that everyone had to have health insurance, Stark's position made sense. But once the ACA mandated that everyone had to have insurance, why was EMTALA still needed?

    It's probably a moot point now. The "tax reform" bill that was passed in Dec, 2017 by the Republicans repealed the mandate that everyone had to have health insurance. So, if that's the case, why didn't they repeal the mandate that hospitals accept all patients in the ED before determining if they could pay?

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    As for the second, would that mean that ALL PATIENTS, who are now getting nursing home care under Medicaid, would be expelled and denied care? Sounds like euthenasia to me.
    I think there's an intentional message that certain groups want to make that paints Medicaid recipients as minority people who are lazy and are leeching services off the government (aka the "welfare queen" stereotype). No matter how many times that we point out that Medicaid provides services to children, elderly people and people in nursing homes, the stereotype persists.

    The mystery is... if this were to pass, how many children, elderly people and people in nursing homes will be able to meet some sort of work requirement? This is where the idea falls apart.


    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    Two friends who worked at a State Hospital that was shut down in 1982 under the Reagan-era cuts to psychiatric care, told me horrific stories that will haunt me to my grave. They had to be involved in the final interactions with patients that were being forced out of all care (while the Hospital was being closed down...and, of course, it was repurposed as a prison), and they were the ones who were told to give the discharged patients $50 and a one-way bus ticket to Chicago. A couple of these patients were scared, terrified, and screaming that it was probably tantamount to a death sentence, which it very likely was. IT WAS IN JANUARY IN THE MIDDLE OF WINTER.
    Just about every Sheriff of a major urban area will tell you that a significant part of their job and a significant portion of law enforcement officer time is spent dealing with the mentally ill- on the street, in private homes, in public places and in county jails.

    The mental health reforms that date back to the 1960s (it originated with the well-intended Community Mental Health Act of 1963 signed by JFK) transferred the mentally ill out of institutions and into community-based outpatient care. Unfortunately, it hasn't really worked out that way because the outpatient care has never been fully funded which leaves the mentally ill with few options. Because of those reforms, you can be homicidal or suicidal but it is very difficult for us to hold you for more than 3 days. On the other hand, if you are mentally ill and you commit a crime, a jail can hold you more than 3 days. See the problem?

    One of the reforms in the ACA was requiring that Medicaid and private insurance cover mental health care as "medical care" instead of some separate category with its own limitations on deductibles and lifetime caps. It's also one of the piece of the ACA that are endangered by the repeal efforts. Without the ACA mandates, people risk loss of coverage for mental illness and psychiatric care.
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    would attach a work requirement to Medicaid (meaning people would only be eligible for Medicaid if they worked or did public service).
    Why's that disturbing? For the able bodied of course.
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  18. #2118
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by bendted View Post
    Why's that disturbing? For the able bodied of course.
    Not disturbing at all until they tell you you don't qualify because you have a job at Wal-Mart where of course you don't get healthcare.

    What is up with people these days. No compassion, just stingy judgement. Guess what, who do you think pays for people who go to emergency rooms because the Doctor won't see them? YOU and ME - and it costs more that to just let them have Medicaid in the first place.

    PLUS what kind of human wants people to not have health care because somehow they don't deserve it? What kind of person is that do ya think?

    EVERYONE in the first world except us has universal healthcare and the only reason we don't - is greedy fucking ass-hats who put money and condescension over a healthier society.
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by bendted View Post
    Why's that disturbing? For the able bodied of course.
    It's not disturbing. It's misinformed.

    Well, 15% of the adult population and a whopping 38% of children are on Medicaid. That's about 29 million adults and and 30 million children.

    Of the approximately 70 million covered by Medicaid in 2016:
    • 43% are under age 18 years old.
    • 10% are over 65 years old.
    • 14% are permanently disabled.

    Of the remaining 33% - about 3/4 of these adults are in working families who are below the poverty limit for their state. In other words, most of the able-bodied adults on Medicaid ARE already working; either they don't make enough in their job to pay for insurance or their employer doesn't offer them medical group coverage.

    Specific to the gay population: Medicaid covers the cost of anti-retrovirals which allows people who have HIV to maintain their health and work where possible.

    Of the $553 billion spent on Medicaid, $118 billion (21%) of it goes to nursing homes or long-term care facilities. In most states, about 50% of newborn deliveries are paid by Medicaid.

    Legislators know all of this. Yet, the stereotypes about people on Medicaid persist.



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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    The frustrating thing is that I've been reading legislation for years, starting with draft legislation through the final Bill. I've never seen legislation like the "bills" that the Republicans have been passed this year (and this stuff has been a completely Republican effort, not the least bit bipartisan). They're just short of being written with crayons on a cocktail napkin. Everyone has been scrambling to read the legislation after it was passed to figure out who got the goodies and who got the shaft.

    The Orwellian "Tax Cuts and Jobs Act" is a 500+ page bill. It's hard to know exactly which version was the last version that was scored by the CBO because this bill started with some special interest group and was written by a bunch of Congressmen in the wee hours of the night with no hearings, no expert testimony and no economic analysis. History tells us that when Congress makes significant changes in economic legislation, it generally distorts the economy, leading to boom-bust situations.

    If this is the way Congress intends to do business, it's time to clean house and get people who understand (or are not willing to feign ignorance of) the legislative process.
    They would never use crayons on cocktail napkins -- it would mean actual work.

    Sharpies on restroom paper towels, now....

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #2121
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    ^ I'm stunned. I can't imagine that happening, especially in sub-freezing weather.

    I'm actually speechless here.
    I've actually seen it though happily in warmer weather.

    But it's exactly what the GOP thinks is righteous, despite the fact that it is almost specifically condemned by the Old Testament prophets.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Why are you stunned? Republican healthcare operates under the crawl off and just fucking die already principle. You can't jeopardize profit by paying to heal slackers, wetbacks, and lazy Negroes.
    The problem with that is that profits actually improve if everyone gets covered by insurance.

    By Occam's razor, then, it isn't the profits, it's the purposeful abuse of the poor.

    And while GOP "evangelicals" try to make the argument that homosexuality will get a nation slammed by God, the prophets of the Old Testament are far, far clearer that lack of mercy and compassion for the poor is on God's "wrath list". They wrap themselves in the Bible and the flag while they spit on the Creator.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    American principle, everything is legal unless proven otherwise.
    I vaguely recall at least one of the Founding Fathers trying to establish a way for citizens to bring situations to the courts before laws or actions were shown to be bad by letting them harm people, but it didn't get any traction because no one could imagine an American behaving that way in the first place.

    Politicians backing laws that clearly result in harm to citizens would have been challenged to a duel and removed from the misery of the people. I still say we should bring back dueling just for that: so politicians whose legislation is vile can be sent to discuss it with their Maker.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    I've read about that happening for years, but it's a little different wheeling someone out of a hospital where they went to get help to a bus stop in freezing weather in only a hospital gown. That, to me, is cruel, heartless, and inhumane. Money should not be more important than someone's life.
    Hey, my mom was sent home from a skilled nursing facility with a condition that really demanded that she be in a skilled nursing facility because (as the supervisor explained to me) the Medicare rules say she had to go home and get readmitted for the new condition. As it turned out, it meant they sent her home to die.

    Whatever politician or bureaucrat made the rules that way belongs in the deepest level of hell.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    It's the same issue. A lot of the homeless in cities where State Hospitals are located were discharged from the State Hospital. It's a revolving door. They are admitted for mental illness. The State Hospital gets them on meds. They get better. They get discharged. There's no plan to re-integrate them into society. They have no money to buy their psych meds. They don't take their meds. They have another psychic break. They end up back in the State Hospital (or quite often, they end up in county jails). And the cycle starts over.

    There are Federal regulations (and laws in some States) that require discharge planning. Unfortunately, when the patient has no family members, has mental illness and has no ability to pay, the options for where to discharge them to becomes a problem. There's no easy answer when there's no place that has available outpatient beds.
    In other words, in terms of care for the mentally ill, the United States lags behind many stone age cultures.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Medically there is neglect or abuse. In this case, both apply. With proactive treatment, some of these victims could design their own future. Often they cannot even realize the present.
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by ballcaphair View Post
    Medically there is neglect or abuse. In this case, both apply. With proactive treatment, some of these victims could design their own future. Often they cannot even realize the present.
    There's something to be said for proactive treatment, but, then, haven't you heard? I think it's the MD's who will be the first to sell their astronomical delinquent debt to anyone who will buy it. Out of sight, out of mind and all that.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    It's not disturbing. It's misinformed.

    Well, 15% of the adult population and a whopping 38% of children are on Medicaid. That's about 29 million adults and and 30 million children.

    Of the approximately 70 million covered by Medicaid in 2016:
    • 43% are under age 18 years old.
    • 10% are over 65 years old.
    • 14% are permanently disabled.

    Of the remaining 33% - about 3/4 of these adults are in working families who are below the poverty limit for their state. In other words, most of the able-bodied adults on Medicaid ARE already working; either they don't make enough in their job to pay for insurance or their employer doesn't offer them medical group coverage.

    Specific to the gay population: Medicaid covers the cost of anti-retrovirals which allows people who have HIV to maintain their health and work where possible.

    Of the $553 billion spent on Medicaid, $118 billion (21%) of it goes to nursing homes or long-term care facilities. In most states, about 50% of newborn deliveries are paid by Medicaid.

    Legislators know all of this. Yet, the stereotypes about people on Medicaid persist.



    Ugh.
    38% of Children on Medicaid (~30 million).
    43% under the age of 18.
    50% of newborns paid by Medicaid.

    Looks to me a problem is excessive breeding!

    The gov's proposed new guidelines in case anyone is interested.

    https://www.medicaid.gov/federal-pol...s/smd18002.pdf
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Well. . .this will certainly piss some people off

    http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement..._professionals

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    "No One Should Be Forced to Choose Between Helping Sick People and Living by One’s Deepest Moral or Religious Convictions" Division's Chief Announces

    Sorry, but that is diabolical. Evil and diabolical! They're not backing a fucking cake!!

    So, Mr. Trump has thrown the US Constitution out the window and now he's just ripped up the Hippocratic Oath!!

    Evil, thy name is Donald J. Trump!
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    "No One Should Be Forced to Choose Between Helping Sick People and Living by One’s Deepest Moral or Religious Convictions" Division's Chief Announces

    Sorry, but that is diabolical. Evil and diabolical! They're not backing a fucking cake!!

    So, Mr. Trump has thrown the US Constitution out the window and now he's just ripped up the Hippocratic Oath!!

    Evil, thy name is Donald J. Trump!
    There's a couple of things here.

    Once upon a time, there were a group of evangelicals who railed against a Presidental candidates who were divorced or against a President who cheated on his wife. Now, we're dealing with a group of "prosperity gospel" power-players who are willing to vote for a foul-mouthed billionaire who not only cheated on his three wives, he also bragged about sexually assaulting women. Those faux religious leaders are cut from the same cloth as Trump and they've supported him in exchange for legislation that they want.

    They got their proxy Pence in the White House to get these pro-religious favors codified into a government that is not supposed to advocate for any particular religious. The political horse-trading that got Trump into the White House includes legislation that gives them the right to impose their religious beliefs on others. And, if they have their way, it will include legislation that allows them to both advocate for political parties and political candidates but retain their tax-exempt status.

    The other thing that is going on is that they're interested in keeping the culture wars going because it's a major distraction to gay organizations and it siphons cash from liberal organizations that will fight against this kind of pandering legislation and executive orders.

    Don't be fooled. The way to deal with this nonsense is to remind these holier-than-thou types that if they aren't willing to take care of patients who need their services, it's time for them to find another career. Patients pick their healthcare providers; healthcare providers don't pick their patients.

    And get this Adminstration out of the White House as soon as possible.
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    ^ Thanks. I would truly like to hear Trump explain how this is making America great again. The only excuse I can imagine is that it puts 'undesirables' 6 feet under and out of their sight a lot faster.
    "A smile is the shortest distance between two people." - Victor Borge

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    "No One Should Be Forced to Choose Between Helping Sick People and Living by One’s Deepest Moral or Religious Convictions" Division's Chief Announces

    Sorry, but that is diabolical. Evil and diabolical! They're not backing a fucking cake!!

    So, Mr. Trump has thrown the US Constitution out the window and now he's just ripped up the Hippocratic Oath!!

    Evil, thy name is Donald J. Trump!
    So, they're supporting religious freedom for die-hard Satanists?

    That's the only way I can make sense of that, because the only supernatural entity I can think of which would refuse to help sick people because of who they are is the Devil.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Is the last hope that the AMA, the Pharmacists' organization, etc. may unite to EXPEL any of their members who do this shit?
    "Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking." -The Scarecrow, WIZARD OF OZ, 1939
    "If Hitler is dehumanized and shown only as a devil, any future Hitler may not be recognized, simply because he is a human being/" - SWASTIKA, 1974
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    From the front lines it looks like this helps no one frightens the Mexicans and Natives, who fear being deported. This man is turning a noble gem into a shihole.
    See how beautiful we are and blessed, too. Together we are excellent.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    So, they're supporting religious freedom for die-hard Satanists?
    I said nothing about Satanists. I'm talking about so-called 'Christians' and one self-proclaimed 'saviour' who worships nothing but $$$ and has his followers thinking he can walk on water. To grant doctors, who SWORE AN OATH to preserve life the right to refuse to do that is evil. But then, Mr. Watch Me turn Water Into Wine swore an oath, too. I watched it and I heard him swear it and he has done everything except uphold that oath.

    Where does it stop? This has nothing to do with religious freedom. This has everything to do with discrimination and allowing those so-called 'doctors' to kill people.

    All the yap yap yap I've been listening to on this board alone about the despicable doctors performing abortions on religions grounds, and now, on religious grounds, they have the right not to treat people who need their help.

    They want it both ways, and having it both ways is not only hypocritical, it is evil. Any doctor who swore an oath and refuses to help someone in need on religious grounds should have the M.D. ripped from their name forever.
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    .
    Paul Ryan - Champion of health care reform!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hey, Wisconsin - don't forget to re-elect this guy.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    I said nothing about Satanists. I'm talking about so-called 'Christians' and one self-proclaimed 'saviour' who worships nothing but $$$ and has his followers thinking he can walk on water. To grant doctors, who SWORE AN OATH to preserve life the right to refuse to do that is evil. But then, Mr. Watch Me turn Water Into Wine swore an oath, too. I watched it and I heard him swear it and he has done everything except uphold that oath.
    Trump did, by supporting the withholding of medical care due to personal beliefs/issues: the only supernatural entity who would think that a good thing would be die-hard hard-core Satanists.

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    Where does it stop? This has nothing to do with religious freedom. This has everything to do with discrimination and allowing those so-called 'doctors' to kill people.

    All the yap yap yap I've been listening to on this board alone about the despicable doctors performing abortions on religions grounds, and now, on religious grounds, they have the right not to treat people who need their help.

    They want it both ways, and having it both ways is not only hypocritical, it is evil. Any doctor who swore an oath and refuses to help someone in need on religious grounds should have the M.D. ripped from their name forever.
    It will stop only once the billionaires have succeeded in making their control of government irreversible, and then the right-wing Christianist billionaires have achieved control of the others. Trump is clueless that he's supporting a movement toward a theocratic plutocracy.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    ...It will stop only once the billionaires have succeeded in making their control of government irreversible, and then the right-wing Christianist billionaires have achieved control of the others. Trump is clueless that he's supporting a movement toward a theocratic plutocracy.
    I'm actually surprised that you didn't make a Sadducees reference. Funny how human nature remains the same across the millennia.
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    I'm actually surprised that you didn't make a Sadducees reference. Funny how human nature remains the same across the millennia.
    LOL

    I sometimes have to explain who the Pharisees were; the Sadducees were even more obscure. Though you're right; it would make a decent reference.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    There's a couple of things here.

    Once upon a time, there were a group of evangelicals who railed against a Presidental candidates who were divorced or against a President who cheated on his wife. Now, we're dealing with a group of "prosperity gospel" power-players who are willing to vote for a foul-mouthed billionaire who not only cheated on his three wives, he also bragged about sexually assaulting women. Those faux religious leaders are cut from the same cloth as Trump and they've supported him in exchange for legislation that they want.

    They got their proxy Pence in the White House to get these pro-religious favors codified into a government that is not supposed to advocate for any particular religious. The political horse-trading that got Trump into the White House includes legislation that gives them the right to impose their religious beliefs on others. And, if they have their way, it will include legislation that allows them to both advocate for political parties and political candidates but retain their tax-exempt status.

    The other thing that is going on is that they're interested in keeping the culture wars going because it's a major distraction to gay organizations and it siphons cash from liberal organizations that will fight against this kind of pandering legislation and executive orders.

    Don't be fooled. The way to deal with this nonsense is to remind these holier-than-thou types that if they aren't willing to take care of patients who need their services, it's time for them to find another career. Patients pick their healthcare providers; healthcare providers don't pick their patients.

    And get this Adminstration out of the White House as soon as possible.
    In his day Jesus called the religious (as did John the Baptist) "A Brood of Vipers." Something tells me that after meeting today's Evangelicals, He'd repeat the same term.
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by thewiz View Post
    In his day Jesus called the religious (as did John the Baptist) "A Brood of Vipers." Something tells me that after meeting today's Evangelicals, He'd repeat the same term.
    Evangelicals conveniently forget that verse along with a lot of other verses that tell them how not to be Christian.
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by thewiz View Post
    In his day Jesus called the religious (as did John the Baptist) "A Brood of Vipers." Something tells me that after meeting today's Evangelicals, He'd repeat the same term.
    Well, and the related verse from Isaiah:
    Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
    Applicable to a lot of disinformation and perversion of truth that has gone on lately, as well as the Dominionist minions that are complicit.

    It's worth noting that during the ACA repeal debate Republican sabotage, these same evangelicals were largely silent. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops spoke out in opposition to ACA repeal and about the effects of a repeal on the poor (and they made similar statements about the delayed renewal of CHIP).

    On the other hand, groups like FRC put out statements supporting the repeal and defunding of the ACA, apparently ignorant of the existence of the New Testament. And of course, Tony Perkins of FRC and Franklin Graham are out and about saying that Trump deserves a mulligan for his "past sins" (conveniently changing the subject about the current sins).
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    Evangelicals conveniently forget that verse along with a lot of other verses that tell them how not to be Christian.
    Oh, they know the verse, but they say it applies to "liberals" who want to make the government into God. How they can say that and not see that they're trying to do the same thing, just the other side of the coin, baffles me.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    Well, and the related verse from Isaiah:


    Applicable to a lot of disinformation and perversion of truth that has gone on lately, as well as the Dominionist minions that are complicit.

    It's worth noting that during the ACA repeal debate Republican sabotage, these same evangelicals were largely silent. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops spoke out in opposition to ACA repeal and about the effects of a repeal on the poor (and they made similar statements about the delayed renewal of CHIP).

    On the other hand, groups like FRC put out statements supporting the repeal and defunding of the ACA, apparently ignorant of the existence of the New Testament. And of course, Tony Perkins of FRC and Franklin Graham are out and about saying that Trump deserves a mulligan for his "past sins" (conveniently changing the subject about the current sins).
    They REALLY need to read what Martin Luther, the greatest of the Reformers, had to say about government. He said flat out that it's better to have a total unbeliever at the helm if that unbeliever was virtuous and honorable than a Christian who couldn't be trusted.

    It's why I've long despised (just about ever since I've ever been a Christian) the Calvinist and Zwinglian versions of reformation: both teach that entangling church and state is just fine, so long as the church dominates.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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