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  1. #1801
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    Where is the proof for that? It's the first time you've mentioned it. I Googled it and found nothing except ways for Americans to buy the drugs from Canada.

    And why can't you understand that, even with our cheaper prices, our drug companies are STILL making a profit? It's a sad day when you place profits above people's lives.
    Big Pharma and the GOP are both suffering from what Adam Smith warned against as an outcome of capitalism: the loss of what he called "fellow-feeling", i.e. caring about others.

    Of course the courts haven't helped, when they have established that those running a business are obligated to maximize return for investors.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  2. #1802
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Big Pharma and the GOP are both suffering from what Adam Smith warned against as an outcome of capitalism: the loss of what he called "fellow-feeling", i.e. caring about others.

    Of course the courts haven't helped, when they have established that those running a business are obligated to maximize return for investors.
    I think it is better considered "welfare overload". The calls on the income of a company of individual are virtually infinite. No amount of charity is enough, even with half of Americans getting some form of welfare. At some point you have to say "I have done as much as I can. I am entitled to live too. "

  3. #1803
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    This is form an article "Why are drug prices lower in Canada.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Her is the citation to the article. :http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...in_canada.html
    I read the article and I think you got it wrong. You imply that Canadian companies are selling drugs in the United States for a much higher price, but it is the other way round. The American companies are selling their drugs more cheaply in Canada and other countries so they can sell them for so much more in the States.

    Now, what makes me think you got it backwards? Just below your quoted paragraph is this:

    In recent months, members of Congress from both parties have introduced bills to stop this drug price discrimination, either by allowing the re-importation of drugs from Canada and Mexico or by requiring U.S. drug companies to offer drugs at one price for all of North America.
    By the way, that article was from 2000. At the time the article was written, Canadian or Mexican drugs were not for sale in the United States. (The legal ones, at least.)

    So, your proof does nothing more that show that American companies can sell their drugs in 'controlled' countries at a much lower price and STILL make a profit.
    Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    I read the article and I think you got it wrong. You imply that Canadian companies are selling drugs in the United States for a much higher price, but it is the other way round. The American companies are selling their drugs more cheaply in Canada and other countries so they can sell them for so much more in the States.
    To put it simply, they charge Americans a lot of money because Americans will pay it.

    The pharmaceutical industry knows that most Americans who have insurance never know how much drugs cost because all they pay is a small copay of $0-75 for most employer-based plans.

    Something else to keep in mind: doctors in the US can accept kickbacks from drug companies in the form of consultant fees or discounts. I mentioned this in an earlier post but the ACA requires that the drug companies detail how much money they are paying physicians.

    So, there's often a reason why physicians in the US write prescriptions for certain brand names and the price of those drugs covers these payments that the drug companies pay the physician as a reward for prescribing those brands. This also increases the price of the drugs.

    You can look up your doctor here:
    https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/
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  5. #1805
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    To put it simply, they charge Americans a lot of money because Americans will pay it.

    The pharmaceutical industry knows that most Americans who have insurance never know how much drugs cost because all they pay is a small copay of $0-75 for most employer-based plans.

    Something else to keep in mind: doctors in the US can accept kickbacks from drug companies in the form of consultant fees or discounts. I mentioned this in an earlier post but the ACA requires that the drug companies detail how much money they are paying physicians.

    So, there's often a reason why physicians in the US write prescriptions for certain brand names and the price of those drugs covers these payments that the drug companies pay the physician as a reward for prescribing those brands. This also increases the price of the drugs.

    You can look up your doctor here:
    https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/
    Wow. SCOTUS has tossed out laws for less "appearance of corruption" than this system has!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  6. #1806
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    ^ (@ KaraBulut) Doctors up here used to give out free samples of medications a long time ago. I don't think they're allowed to do that anymore.
    Last edited by gsdx; October 11th, 2017 at 07:19 PM.
    Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

  7. #1807
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    ^
    Doctors here still do, usually just enough to find out if it's going to be effective, after which they'll write a prescription.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    I read the article and I think you got it wrong. You imply that Canadian companies are selling drugs in the United States for a much higher price, but it is the other way round. The American companies are selling their drugs more cheaply in Canada and other countries so they can sell them for so much more in the States.

    Now, what makes me think you got it backwards? Just below your quoted paragraph is this:



    By the way, that article was from 2000. At the time the article was written, Canadian or Mexican drugs were not for sale in the United States. (The legal ones, at least.)

    So, your proof does nothing more that show that American companies can sell their drugs in 'controlled' countries at a much lower price and STILL make a profit.
    Wrong. It is silly to think US chooses to sell cheaply in Canada so that they can sell for more in the US. A complete lack of logic. What some in congress have suggested is forbidding US companies from submitting to price controls and prohibiting lower prices in controlling countries. If the Canadians insist on lower prices they will not be able to buy the drugs. Raising prices in other countries would allow lower prices in the US so everyone pays the same.

  9. #1809
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    This is form an article "Why are drug prices lower in Canada.
    " Trouble is, drug companies are willing to sell for less in Canada and elsewhere only because they can sell for more in the United States. They are engaging in what economists call "price discrimination"--that is, charging different prices to different buyers of the same product. Price discrimination works in the drug industry because drugs are very expensive to develop, but fairly cheap to manufacture. As long as companies can recoup their research and development costs by charging high prices in the United States, they can make a profit in Canada and elsewhere by merely covering the cost of making the pill (or tube of ointment or whatever). Similar price discrimination occurs within the United States, with HMOs and other large buyers able to negotiate lower prices while the uninsured pay top dollar."
    So why should we let Americans be taken advantage of like that? Isn't preventing such bad deals for Americans what Trump is always on about?
    “You can’t con people, at least not for long. You can create excitement, you can do wonderful promotion and get all kinds of press, and you can throw in a little hyperbole. But if you don’t deliver the goods, people will catch on.”


  10. #1810
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Remember that if a company spends huge amounts to develop a new drug, which an individual cannot afford, he has not been injured by the company. The individual is where he would be if the company had done nothing.how many new drugs did the soviet era communists make available? Or ordinary philosophers and liberals? It takes hard work, strong incentive and huge sums of money from past drug sales to get the job done. It is so easy to sit back and say; you other guys should develop new drugs and sell them cheap and accept a tiny profit.
    That's the old horse I was talking about. I'm conflicted, remember? Do no harm is a horror when the remedy is sitting in the cabinet. First hand is rough.
    See how beautiful we are and blessed, too. Together we are excellent.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    So they're getting tax write-offs whether they succeed or fail... which means the taxpayer is de facto subsidizing their research.

    Which means they don't need the substantial profits.....
    A tax deduction does not get all or most of the investment back.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    So why should we let Americans be taken advantage of like that? Isn't preventing such bad deals for Americans what Trump is always on about?
    Do you want to end or impede drug research?

  13. #1813
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    So why should we let Americans be taken advantage of like that? Isn't preventing such bad deals for Americans what Trump is always on about?
    Attempts have been made to stop Americans from buying cheaper drugs from Canada and other countries. Another suggestion has been to prohibit discrimination, in effect forcing companies not to sell in a country where the prices are controlled at a lower price. Tell Canada "take it or leave it." But the patent makes the formula and process public knowledge and some countries, such as India, have sometimes sold generic copies without honoring the patent. Drug companies would be reluctant to give up the revenue from the price controlled drugs if other companies refused to buy at the demanded price. Even at the lower price, they collect something above the cost of production. We would be more successful prohibiting foreign companies from selling in the US at higher prices than in their home countries.
    The American consumer has been subsidizing the socialist countries for decades. But the effect has been the development of a lot of drugs and devices which would not otherwise have happened. If the democrats start controlling prices in the US, research will slow down all over the world.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    ^ (@ KaraBulut) Doctors up here used to give out free samples of medications a long time ago. I don't think they're allowed to do that anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    ^
    Doctors here still do, usually just enough to find out if it's going to be effective, after which they'll write a prescription.
    For accounting purposes, these "free" samples are written off as "marketing expenses". They are dispensed to physicians by the marketing reps and it's what is in those rolling leather cases the sales people always have with them.

    The cost of all those free samples and the cost of the marketing materials and expensive packaging is factored into the cost of the drugs. Marketing costs play a role in why Americans pay more, too.

    It's true that the idea was to provide "starter" doses for medications like antibiotics or to provide a trial dose of drugs like antihistamines or nasal sprays. But it's also a hook because the patient almost always gets a prescription for the drug along with the sample.
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  15. #1815
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    ^ You're a font of information and I appreciate it very, very much.
    Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward


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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by smokeshadow View Post
    He was elected to end Obamacare which is failing anyway. Insurance of preexisting illnesses does not work.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by smokeshadow View Post
    Perhaps democrats should stop saying that Trump hasn't done anything or kept his promises' they may be pressuring him to do things they do not like.

  19. #1819
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by smokeshadow View Post
    At our clinic, our hearts are in our throats.
    See how beautiful we are and blessed, too. Together we are excellent.

  20. #1820
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    ^ He is killing Americans over his hatred of all things Obama.
    Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    I'm puzzled by the stories advertising this as "chipping away at Obamacare" because it's unclear who would be buying these policies or which insurers would offer them. This sounds more like the spin of an Administration that is trying to make it look like it's accomplishing something.

    The only advantage that these "policies" seem to offer is that they can cross state lines, however there's not much chance that a plan purchased by a New Yorker would have any in-network providers in Kansas which is why network healthcare policies are almost always based in a single state. It also fails to solve one of the key things that the ACA did try to solve- eliminating substandard health insurance policies that aren't worth the money paid for them.

    This was a Rand Paul idea that Paul has been pushing for years- substandard insurance through private groups. I'm not sure what about his career as a ophthalmologist made him a subject matter expert on insurance but like most things that come from Rand Paul, it's long on ideology and short on ideas that can actually work. It's doubtful that these policies will get any traction.

    I also anticipate that there will be a lawsuit over whether he can do this by executive order. Both parties have been turning a blind eye to executive orders (which are really a symptom of a feckless Legislative branch) because both parties have benefited from executive orders when the Congress is controlled by the opposition party. This might be where the courts are asked to weigh in since it's another example of a President failing to work through the legislative process and trying to subvert legislation that was approved by the Congress in 2010.
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Something that is worrisome...

    The White House
    Office of the Press Secretary
    For Immediate Release
    October 12, 2017
    Statement from the Press Secretary
    Based upon guidance from the Department of Justice, the Department of Health and Human Services has concluded that there is no appropriation for cost-sharing reduction payments to insurance companies under Obamacare. In light of this analysis, the Government cannot lawfully make the cost-sharing reduction payments. The United States House of Representatives sued the previous administration in Federal court for making these payments without such an appropriation, and the court agreed that the payments were not lawful. The bailout of insurance companies through these unlawful payments is yet another example of how the previous administration abused taxpayer dollars and skirted the law to prop up a broken system. Congress needs to repeal and replace the disastrous Obamacare law and provide real relief to the American people.
    So what are Cost Sharing Reductions(CSR)?

    The ACA sets up three levels of coverage - Bronze, Silver and Gold. The assumption is that Silver plans are the "standard" and most of the assumptions are based upon a Silver plan purchased by a family that is at 250 percent of the federal poverty level- for a family of 5 that's about $72,000.

    The ACA requires insurers to reduce cost sharing for individuals who enroll in silver plans and have household incomes not exceeding 250 percent of the federal poverty level. These provisions reduce the out-of-pocket limit (the copays, deductibles, etc) that you pay before insurance will pay) for the people who buy Silver plans.

    The CSR was added when insurers complained that they weren't making a profit on the ACA individual market plans and keep the out-of-pocket limit low. CSR provides additional payments to insurers to keep these plans profitable so that copays and deductibles don't have to be increased.

    So what will happen now that the Trump White House has said they are going to stop the CSR payments? The CBO has already done an analysis:
    • Federal deficits would increase by $6 billion in 2018, $21 billion in 2020, and $26 billion in 2026
    • Insurance premiums will increase- the estimate is 20 percent in 2018 and 25 percent in 2020.
    • Insurers will stop offering plans in states where they can no longer make a profit


    This is a lose-lose for everyone:
    • The insurance companies are hurt because they are losing the CSR payment even though there is a mandate that they keep out-of-pocket costs low for families.
    • The states are hurt because there will be fewer policies offered in the market and this will also increase the Medicaid population.
    • Middle class families needing insurance will be hurt because their premiums are going tojump substantially.
    • The country is hurt by raising the deficit because the government will have to pick up the increased premium cost for poor families (remember: over 80% of people in the individual market receive supplements that cover all or part of their premiums).
    • Hospitals and doctors, especially in rural areas, will be hurt as the population of uninsured people will increase which will increase write-offs for charity care for the uninsured.


    This is kind of like those guys that try to torch a insect nest and end up burning down their house.

    So, why is Trump doing this?
    To make himself look good. Instead of showing leadership like a President and working with Congress to address the problems that required the CSRs, he's pulling the rug out from everyone because he's in a tantrum because Congress didn't repeal the ACA.

    It's time to take a closer look at the 25th Amendment. Americans deserve better.
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    He was elected by people who do not want Obamacare:its victims who have to pay for it and see their own care degraded.

  24. #1824
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    He was elected by people who do not want Obamacare:its victims who have to pay for it and see their own care degraded.
    Nonsense. He was elected by people who hated Obama because he was black. And now they're going to regret what they (and you) did when they find that what you had is gone.

    Trump's absolute and undeniable hatred of Obama and his absolute and undeniable bigotry is fucking Americans bigly. Are you tired of so much winning yet?
    Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    Nonsense. He was elected by people who hated Obama because he was black. And now they're going to regret what they (and you) did when they find that what you had is gone.

    Trump's absolute and undeniable hatred of Obama and his absolute and undeniable bigotry is fucking Americans bigly. Are you tired of so much winning yet?
    Hogwash. Republicans have never wanted big government and socialism. You want to pretend it is about race because it is black and white and you have no grasp of the real issues.
    If I regret losing "what I had", it is the freedom that America once had.

  26. #1826
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    He was elected by people who do not want Obamacare:its victims who have to pay for it and see their own care degraded.
    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    Nonsense. He was elected by people who hated Obama because he was black. And now they're going to regret what they (and you) did when they find that what you had is gone.

    Trump's absolute and undeniable hatred of Obama and his absolute and undeniable bigotry is fucking Americans bigly. Are you tired of so much winning yet?

    ACA is not perfect, but as long as he refers to it as Obamacare, it will be something he and "his base" will hate. His winning is disabling, cruel and ugly.
    See how beautiful we are and blessed, too. Together we are excellent.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Here is Ronald Reagan opposing socialized medicine long before anyone heard of Obama. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rona...lized_Medicine. It is a clear lie to say that Republican opposition is based upon Obama's race.

  28. #1828
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Wrong. It is silly to think US chooses to sell cheaply in Canada so that they can sell for more in the US. A complete lack of logic. What some in congress have suggested is forbidding US companies from submitting to price controls and prohibiting lower prices in controlling countries. If the Canadians insist on lower prices they will not be able to buy the drugs. Raising prices in other countries would allow lower prices in the US so everyone pays the same.
    Wow -- now there's a recipe for causing companies to leave the U.S.!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  29. #1829
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by ballcaphair View Post
    That's the old horse I was talking about. I'm conflicted, remember? Do no harm is a horror when the remedy is sitting in the cabinet. First hand is rough.
    In this case, "Do no harm" is the priest in the take of the Good Samaritan passing by instead of rendering aid.

    Once again, ben is arguing against the Judeo-Christian heritage he has claimed to honor.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  30. #1830
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    A tax deduction does not get all or most of the investment back.
    That's exactly what a tax deduction does, if it's a full deduction: it removes from your taxable revenue the entire amount you spent.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Do you want to end or impede drug research?
    It's already been established that research money doesn't come from profit, so profits could be reduced to just one percent and there would be no impeding of research. The only reason a company would not do research would be if they don't want to stay in business.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    ^ You're a font of information and I appreciate it very, very much.
    I second that enthusiastically.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by smokeshadow View Post
    An alert Congress would impeach him for that -- he has in essence told Congress "Fuck you and the law you passed", which is an intrusion on the separation of powers. His job is to enforce the law, not to change it like a dictator.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    ^ He is killing Americans over his hatred of all things Obama.
    A neighbor commented to me yesterday that Trump made sure we have no death panels by becoming a panel of one.

    We already kill people by making getting medical care an antagonistic bureaucratic process; Trump is just making it worse.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    I'm puzzled by the stories advertising this as "chipping away at Obamacare" because it's unclear who would be buying these policies or which insurers would offer them. This sounds more like the spin of an Administration that is trying to make it look like it's accomplishing something.

    The only advantage that these "policies" seem to offer is that they can cross state lines, however there's not much chance that a plan purchased by a New Yorker would have any in-network providers in Kansas which is why network healthcare policies are almost always based in a single state. It also fails to solve one of the key things that the ACA did try to solve- eliminating substandard health insurance policies that aren't worth the money paid for them.
    The whole "in-network" thing strikes me as just another way insurance companies can avoid actually caring for people. Just about every provider I see is out of network because the closest in-network ones are about $60 away in gas money, so there's no point in me going in-network just to get a $30-lower co-pay.

    I saw a law proposed that an insurance company in a given state would have to have someone in-network in every country seat or city of 50k or more. I like it -- it would require insurance companies to take a step back toward doing what they're supposedly doing, covering people's medical expenses.

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    I also anticipate that there will be a lawsuit over whether he can do this by executive order. Both parties have been turning a blind eye to executive orders (which are really a symptom of a feckless Legislative branch) because both parties have benefited from executive orders when the Congress is controlled by the opposition party. This might be where the courts are asked to weigh in since it's another example of a President failing to work through the legislative process and trying to subvert legislation that was approved by the Congress in 2010.
    Lawsuit? A Congress aware of its authority would impeach over this.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    An alert Congress would impeach him for that -- he has in essence told Congress "Fuck you and the law you passed", which is an intrusion on the separation of powers. His job is to enforce the law, not to change it like a dictator.
    Except that he and the Republicans in Congress promised to end and Obamacare. You should respect a president who keeps his promises, and in 2020, he is going to be able to remind the voters that he kept his promises when those about him did not.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    He was elected by people who do not want Obamacare:its victims who have to pay for it and see their own care degraded.
    That is such pure unadulterated bullshit I'm surprised we can't smell it through the internet.

    The result of the ACA, according to every medical person I've talked to, has been improved care for everyone, though especially in the emergency room. The only drawback is increased load on doctors, but that's the fault of the guild called the American Medical Association that deliberately keeps the supply of doctors low.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    Nonsense. He was elected by people who hated Obama because he was black. And now they're going to regret what they (and you) did when they find that what you had is gone.

    Trump's absolute and undeniable hatred of Obama and his absolute and undeniable bigotry is fucking Americans bigly. Are you tired of so much winning yet?
    Probably more so by people who listened to Clinton say she was gong to destroy companies and the jobs they provide, such as in mining. I think that the bigots are seriously over-represented in his administration (what there is of it, since he doesn't seem to care if the government actually runs or not).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Wrong. It is silly to think US chooses to sell cheaply in Canada so that they can sell for more in the US. A complete lack of logic. What some in congress have suggested is forbidding US companies from submitting to price controls and prohibiting lower prices in controlling countries. If the Canadians insist on lower prices they will not be able to buy the drugs. Raising prices in other countries would allow lower prices in the US so everyone pays the same.
    It Was Your Article!! It Was Your Evidence, and it was almost 20 years old!! It could NOT have been Canada selling drugs for a higher price in the States because Canada was BARRED from selling drugs in the States in the first place. That left the US selling for cheaper prices in Canada (and still making a profit) so they could sell the drugs for a much higher price in the States at a MUCH higher profit.
    Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    He was elected by people who do not want Obamacare:its victims who have to pay for it and see their own care degraded.
    I think it's already been proven that the morons that voted for Trump have no idea what ACA or Obamacare is.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    That is such pure unadulterated bullshit I'm surprised we can't smell it through the internet.

    The result of the ACA, according to every medical person I've talked to, has been improved care for everyone, though especially in the emergency room. The only drawback is increased load on doctors, but that's the fault of the guild called the American Medical Association that deliberately keeps the supply of doctors low.
    Increased load on doctors means longer waiting times, and it is only getting started. Increased load in the emergency room means people are using it for problems which could be handled in the office, making delays for actual emergencies.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    I think it's already been proven that the morons that voted for Trump have no idea what ACA or Obamacare is.
    Neverthelessless, he is doing what he promised, which is how democracy is supposed to work.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The whole "in-network" thing strikes me as just another way insurance companies can avoid actually caring for people. Just about every provider I see is out of network because the closest in-network ones are about $60 away in gas money, so there's no point in me going in-network just to get a $30-lower co-pay.
    There's a lot of issues with the "in network" participating thing. Some providers don't want to go through the contracting process with a dozen or more payers. And even if they accept say, Blue Cross, they may only be contracted with BC PPO and not BC HMO.

    Each of these contracts is a separate contract, so there's little incentive for a provider to contract with a particular payer plan unless there's a large number of patients with that plan- for example, a small town where the biggest employer in town has a particular group of plans that they offer.

    The exception is Medicare- where often 60% or more of the patients will be on Medicare in the typical adult practice.


    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Except that he and the Republicans in Congress promised to end and Obamacare.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    ...which is how democracy is supposed to work.
    Last time I checked, there were at least 2 votes in Congress and he couldn't get the necessary votes to pass legislation... which is actually how democracy works.

    And we're going to remind you and Trump of this:
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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    It Was Your Article!! It Was Your Evidence, and it was almost 20 years old!! It could NOT have been Canada selling drugs for a higher price in the States because Canada was BARRED from selling drugs in the States in the first place. That left the US selling for cheaper prices in Canada (and still making a profit) so they could sell the drugs for a much higher price in the States at a MUCH higher profit.
    You cannot understand how illogical it is to say that they sell cheap in Canada so they can sell higher in the US. Selling cheaper does not in any way enable selling higher in the US. They want to sell higher in Canada if they were allowed. They sell higher in the us because they are required to sell cheaper in the US.
    Canadian companies can and do sell THEIR products in the US in large volume. But they are not allowed to buy US drugs at controlled lower prices and then ship them back to the US to sell in competition with US companies.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    There's a lot of issues with the "in network" participating thing. Some providers don't want to go through the contracting process with a dozen or more payers. And even if they accept say, Blue Cross, they may only be contracted with BC PPO and not BC HMO.

    Each of these contracts is a separate contract, so there's little incentive for a provider to contract with a particular payer plan unless there's a large number of patients with that plan- for example, a small town where the biggest employer in town has a particular group of plans that they offer.

    The exception is Medicare- where often 60% or more of the patients will be on Medicare in the typical adult practice.



    Last time I checked, there were at least 2 votes in Congress and he couldn't get the necessary votes to pass legislation... which is actually how democracy works.

    And we're going to remind you and Trump of this:
    It is not clear that Trump's orders are in violation of law; the subsidies contemplated by Obamacare require appropriations by congress, subject to presidential veto. I understand the appropriations have not been made, and mat not be made, so Trumps withholding of subsidies is not illegal. The Republicans in Congress promised to end Obamacare, so the president is honoring the promise. Obama and the democrats did not promise to ignore the law by allowing the "dreamers" to stay and more to come in. The people have never until Trump been allowed to vote on allowing immigration. The point is that Obama was not enforcing the vote of the people. Trump is.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Here is a discussion of the appropriation problem. http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...egal-subsidies

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Neverthelessless, he is doing what he promised, which is how democracy is supposed to work.
    But for all the wrong reasons. Hatred of a man and bigotry are not valid reasons. His hatred and bigotry are harming more people than helping them.
    Quando omni flunkus, moritati.

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Increased load on doctors means longer waiting times, and it is only getting started. Increased load in the emergency room means people are using it for problems which could be handled in the office, making delays for actual emergencies.
    Um, the ACA dramatically reduced emergency room waits. In turn, the doctors here say that actually freed up doctor time, though I didn't follow how.

    Meanwhile, it's apparently easier for foreign doctors to get certified in the U.S., which we wouldn't need to do if the AMA guild didn't have a monopoly on the domestic supply. Any real health care reform is going to have to provide funding for a new medical school in each state -- at least one -- and that's just to keep our number of doctors constant.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Neverthelessless, he is doing what he promised, which is how democracy is supposed to work.
    No, that's how democracy gets broken: carrying out the will of the uninformed.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by KaraBulut View Post
    There's a lot of issues with the "in network" participating thing. Some providers don't want to go through the contracting process with a dozen or more payers. And even if they accept say, Blue Cross, they may only be contracted with BC PPO and not BC HMO.

    Each of these contracts is a separate contract, so there's little incentive for a provider to contract with a particular payer plan unless there's a large number of patients with that plan- for example, a small town where the biggest employer in town has a particular group of plans that they offer.

    The exception is Medicare- where often 60% or more of the patients will be on Medicare in the typical adult practice.
    One of the best doctors I've ever had had a contract with an agency that did the work to make him in-network for whatever insurance his patients had.

    Ironically, I have a doctor now at an agency he founded, and they no longer want to be in-network for anyone.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Healthcare going forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    One of the best doctors I've ever had had a contract with an agency that did the work to make him in-network for whatever insurance his patients had.

    Ironically, I have a doctor now at an agency he founded, and they no longer want to be in-network for anyone.
    This doctor will be a GP and will not have an ER and if he's good, it is our loss.
    See how beautiful we are and blessed, too. Together we are excellent.

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