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View Poll Results: What do you think?

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  • Both should be accepted.

    7 36.84%
  • Neither should be accepted.

    2 10.53%
  • Transgender should be accepted, but not transracial.

    10 52.63%
  • Transracial should be accepted, but not transgender.

    0 0%
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  1. #1

    If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    I UNDERSTAND THIS WILL RECEIVE A LOT OF CONTROVERSY... but I want to know if anyone agrees and if not, why not?

    Transgender acceptance = the notion that gender identity is what one identifies with and not what they were born with (chromosomes and genitals), and that if you were born with male chromosomes but identify as a woman you are a woman and vice versa.

    Transracial acceptance = the notion that if you were born one race but "feel" you should have/would have preferred to be the other, it is socially acceptable to change your appearance and identify as that race.

    To me, there is 0 difference between the two of these. I completely accept people identifying with whatever they identify as, whether it is technically consistent with what the "natural process" delivered, and I see no reason why a white person identifying as black is "appropriating" a marginalized identity if the same is not true for someone like Caitlyn Jenner who lived their entire life with male privilege but now adopts a female identity, a marginalized identity they didn't experience for 60+ years.

    I have nothing but love and tolerance for transgender people BUT I will not stand for the double standard. It actually offends me that when I try to claim my own African ancestry (2 of my great-grandparents on one side both had some degree of African ancestry, but were majority European) people tell me I am "appropriating blackness" even though I identify as white, but someone who was born male is not held to the same standard when they identify as a woman. I don't even identify as black like Rachel Dolezal does but if I cannot claim something about myself that is biologically true, why should other people be able to claim something that is biologically untrue just because they "feel" it to be true?

    If Caitlyn Jenner says she is a woman, OK. I accept it. If Rachel Dolezal says she is black, OK I accept it. But I can't stand when people try to claim the two are different when they are not.

    I would say both should be accepted, but if one is not going to be accepted the other should be held to the same standard.
    Last edited by virulentpeach; April 13th, 2016 at 11:36 AM.

  2. #2
    coleos patentes rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    I guess the difference is that one is nurture and one is nature.

  3. #3

    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    I guess the difference is that one is nurture and one is nature.
    But "male" and "female" (assigned at birth) are due to chromosomes. They are both nature. I'd argue that race is even more of a social construct as gender. I would be male in every country, at any time, BUT I would not have been considered white when the "one drop rule" was enforced.

  4. #4
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    both are silly. if you wanna dress/walk/talk like a woman, fine, but when you start hacking body parts off and having surgeries to change your gender that's over the line. i feel like i should've been born a dog can i go get a tail and whiskers surgically added? and then i want my own special bathroom too.
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  5. #5
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
    I UNDERSTAND THIS WILL RECEIVE A LOT OF CONTROVERSY... but I want to know if anyone agrees and if not, why not?

    Transgender acceptance = the notion that gender identity is what one identifies with and not what they were born with (chromosomes and genitals), and that if you were born with male chromosomes but identify as a woman you are a woman and vice versa.

    Transracial acceptance = the notion that if you were born one race but "feel" you should have/would have preferred to be the other, it is socially acceptable to change your appearance and identify as that race.

    To me, there is 0 difference between the two of these. I completely accept people identifying with whatever they identify as, whether it is technically consistent with what the "natural process" delivered, and I see no reason why a white person identifying as black is "appropriating" a marginalized identity if the same is not true for someone like Caitlyn Jenner who lived their entire life with male privilege but now adopts a female identity, a marginalized identity they didn't experience for 60+ years.

    I have nothing but love and tolerance for transgender people BUT I will not stand for the double standard. It actually offends me that when I try to claim my own African ancestry (2 of my great-grandparents on one side both had some degree of African ancestry, but were majority European) people tell me I am "appropriating blackness" even though I identify as white, but someone who was born male is not held to the same standard when they identify as a woman. I don't even identify as black like Rachel Dolezal does but if I cannot claim something about myself that is biologically true, why should other people be able to claim something that is biologically untrue just because they "feel" it to be true?

    If Caitlyn Jenner says she is a woman, OK. I accept it. If Rachel Dolezal says she is black, OK I accept it. But I can't stand when people try to claim the two are different when they are not.

    I would say both should be accepted, but if one is not going to be accepted the other should be held to the same standard.
    So what, you're born human but identify as jackass? Is there an operation for that?
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  6. #6

    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Boy View Post
    So what, you're born human but identify as jackass? Is there an operation for that?
    What is wrong with what I said? Please argue, with logic, why I cannot identify with my small but present African ancestry (while still calling myself white) which is biologically present and verified lest I be "appropriating" blackness, but Caitlyn Jenner can identify as a woman despite not being biologically female?

    I think BOTH of us should be able to identify how we choose. Why is there a double standard? I am not advocating for less tolerance for trans people, but for more fluidity in racial identity. But I am also saying if how I identify is not going to be accepted (and I am not even "transracial" like Rachel Dolezal) my desire to indulge others is decreased out of anger.
    Last edited by virulentpeach; April 13th, 2016 at 12:24 PM.

  7. #7
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Since when do gay people accept transgender people? I certainly do not and many gay people feel the same way BUT are afraid to say so. Transgender issues are really nothing to do with gay issues. I do believe trans people do experience discrimination but I also think they are mentally ill. Caitlyn Jenner is proof of this to destroy his three sons lives by becoming a woman is so selfish and wrong. Transgender people are superficial and their issues are not real but artificial.

  8. #8

    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by MorrisseyX View Post
    Since when do people accept transgender people. I certainly do not and many gay people feel the same way BUT are afraid to say so. Transgender issues are really nothing to do with gay issues. I do believe trans people do experience discrimination but I also think they are mentally ill. Caitlyn Jenner is proof of this to destroy his three sons lives by becoming a woman is so selfish and wrong.
    Millennial liberal activists (also called "Social Justice Warriors"/SJWs) are the ones who force it down our throats, but offer no tolerance for how the rest of us identify.

    I will call someone whatever they want, but don't tell me I have to literally "believe" it. Caitlyn Jenner, I will call her a woman and think she should be able to live as a woman and be free from discrimination, but do I actually consider her a woman? No.

  9. #9
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    My grandma was bi racial and I have always identified alot more with black people..always been that way for me. It isn't something I plan or look for..I just naturally gravitate toward black people. I am not sure if it has anything to do with my heritage or not...it is just natural and it feels normal....

    The reason I keep it to myself normally is because of the guys I would see when I was hanging out with my friends in the Navy...they were mostly all black...and then there would be a few guys who came up to them and started talking "ghetto" and ...uh...none of the black guys talked like that. I was dying when they did that...and that is NOT what I mean when I say I identify with black people....

    I like telling people I think God is a black woman. They think I am kidding...

    I'm not.

    I don't really care how someone identifies though. It is their life...and I think everyone should be free to define themselves. I don't understand alot of things...but I understand equality under the law and living your life the way you choose....

    The rest of what I could say I won't...because it is too controversial and I don't feel like picking that battle. Let's just say I have to remind straight people NOT to be "happy for me" that Caitlyn came out as TG...I hate that Republican publicity whore and she does NOT speak for me.
    "I think the world would be a lot better off if more people were to define themselves in terms of their own standards and values and not what other people said or thought about them" - Hillary Rodham Clinton

  10. #10
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
    What is wrong with what I said? Please argue, with logic, why I cannot identify with my small but present African ancestry (while still calling myself white) which is biologically present and verified lest I be "appropriating" blackness, but Caitlyn Jenner can identify as a woman despite not being biologically female?

    I think BOTH of us should be able to identify how we choose. Why is there a double standard? I am not advocating for less tolerance for trans people, but for more fluidity in racial identity. But I am also saying if how I identify is not going to be accepted (and I am not even "transracial" like Rachel Dolezal) my desire to indulge others is decreased out of anger.
    1) You can identify however you choose, but it doesn't make it real.

    2) You are confusing race with culture...... There is only one "acknowledged" sentient race on this planet, the human race. Although I do believe Dolphins and possibly dogs could be sentient.... If we humans ever get smart enough to learn their languages and communicate we may just prove it.

    So when you talk about trans-racial you are talking about a human identifying as some form of animal, of which the jackass (mule, donkey etc) is one.

    3) You are confusing transgender with transvestite. Transgender is being so sure that you were born in the wrong gender body that you correct it with surgery, transvestite is so enamored with the clothes of the opposite sex that they dress in them.

    Your comments suggest that you are more interested in the African culture as opposed to the "white" culture you apparently grew up in. This has nothing to do with your race.

    Feel free to live according to any culture you choose. As long as it doesn't affect anyone around you, or break any of the laws of wherever you live you have that freedom. But that gives others the freedom to express how idiotic you may make yourself out to be at times. This happens when a person who doesn't understand a cultural heritage tries to emulate it. Do yourself, and anyone around you, the favor of studying the culture and understanding its history so you can emulate it properly before you dive in.
    It's never too early in the year,
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  11. #11
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Both are delusions.

  12. #12

    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Boy View Post
    1) You can identify however you choose, but it doesn't make it real.
    But in my case it is actually real (I have African ancestry). Caitlyn Jenner can identify as a woman and I will respect it, but she is biologically male. But advocates will argue that Jenner is a woman just by virtue of saying so. Why is the same standard not applying to both?

    2) You are confusing race with culture...... There is only one "acknowledged" sentient race on this planet, the human race. Although I do believe Dolphins and possibly dogs could be sentient.... If we humans ever get smart enough to learn their languages and communicate we may just prove it.

    So when you talk about trans-racial you are talking about a human identifying as some form of animal, of which the jackass (mule, donkey etc) is one.
    I am confused as to your point here. "Race" is a social construct devised to capture biological differences, but it changes with time and place. Therefore, it is fluid to some degree.

    3) You are confusing transgender with transvestite. Transgender is being so sure that you were born in the wrong gender body that you correct it with surgery, transvestite is so enamored with the clothes of the opposite sex that they dress in them.

    Your comments suggest that you are more interested in the African culture as opposed to the "white" culture you apparently grew up in. This has nothing to do with your race.

    Feel free to live according to any culture you choose. As long as it doesn't affect anyone around you, or break any of the laws of wherever you live you have that freedom. But that gives others the freedom to express how idiotic you may make yourself out to be at times. This happens when a person who doesn't understand a cultural heritage tries to emulate it. Do yourself, and anyone around you, the favor of studying the culture and understanding its history so you can emulate it properly before you dive in.
    I am not confusing anything. Transgender acceptance relies on the notion that someone has a "female brain in a male body" or vice versa, but do we not realize that this notion that women and men have different brains has been used for so long to oppress women? Moreover, it is not scientifically proven that men and women have different brains. I personally believe that many trans people believe they were born in the wrong body because we as a society keep telling people "Boys can't play with dolls and cry" and "Women must be dainty and delicate and do their hair" etc. So whenever someone doesn't do what SOCIETY says they should, they think they are the wrong gender but really it's society's fault.

  13. #13
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    I'm just popping in to point out transracial is a term used by and for transracial adoptees specifically for describing various aspects of social (and possibly political) culture while growing up.

    Then there's these.

    http://www.upworthy.com/a-black-tran...-changing-race

    http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/...t-transracial/

    https://hoodfeminism.com/2015/06/25/...-not-the-same/
    I'm not cruel, sir, I won't shoot you in the guts, but I will make you realize how much you took your toes for granted.
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  14. #14
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    As long as they have BBC i don't care what people want to be called.

  15. #15
    coleos patentes rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
    But "male" and "female" (assigned at birth) are due to chromosomes. They are both nature. I'd argue that race is even more of a social construct as gender. I would be male in every country, at any time, BUT I would not have been considered white when the "one drop rule" was enforced.
    Well, that is only one part of it. But the neurological wiring and chemistry is far more complex.

    Sex organs are recognized as being only one manifestion of male or female. Human biology clearly shows that nature can be very ambivalent about sexual identity...like being homo versus straight.

  16. #16
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
    But in my case it is actually real (I have African ancestry). Caitlyn Jenner can identify as a woman and I will respect it, but she is biologically male. But advocates will argue that Jenner is a woman just by virtue of saying so. Why is the same standard not applying to both?



    I am confused as to your point here. "Race" is a social construct devised to capture biological differences, but it changes with time and place. Therefore, it is fluid to some degree.



    I am not confusing anything. Transgender acceptance relies on the notion that someone has a "female brain in a male body" or vice versa, but do we not realize that this notion that women and men have different brains has been used for so long to oppress women? Moreover, it is not scientifically proven that men and women have different brains. I personally believe that many trans people believe they were born in the wrong body because we as a society keep telling people "Boys can't play with dolls and cry" and "Women must be dainty and delicate and do their hair" etc. So whenever someone doesn't do what SOCIETY says they should, they think they are the wrong gender but really it's society's fault.
    No.

    Jenner's sex organs and some of her neuro-chemistry may be male, but biologically, when all factors are taken into account, her psycho-social identity has probably always been female.

    It isn't necessarily someone 'choosing' their identity. Like homosexuality, your identity is just 'you'.

  17. #17

    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    No.

    Jenner's sex organs and some of her neuro-chemistry may be male, but biologically, when all factors are taken into account, her psycho-social identity has probably always been female.

    It isn't necessarily someone 'choosing' their identity. Like homosexuality, your identity is just 'you'.
    No, they are different. I am homosexual because I am male and attracted to men. Caitlyn Jenner is identifying as female most likely because she never felt happy living out male gender roles, which is an issue not with Jenner herself, but the gender roles and the notion that men HAVE to be one way and women another.

    If we removed stringent gender roles, this discussion would be very different. I do not believe gender is innate or based on mentality, it is based on sex chromosomes. The notion that sex chromosomes determine one's likes and interests is just the patriarchy enforcing gender norms.
    Last edited by virulentpeach; April 13th, 2016 at 01:12 PM.

  18. #18
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
    But in my case it is actually real (I have African ancestry). Caitlyn Jenner can identify as a woman and I will respect it, but she is biologically male. But advocates will argue that Jenner is a woman just by virtue of saying so. Why is the same standard not applying to both?

    I am not confusing anything. Transgender acceptance relies on the notion that someone has a "female brain in a male body" or vice versa,
    oh honey no, that's not ...see, this is what happens when trans people have to whittle down information because people won't do research on their own. "Wrong Brain" theory, now coming direct from Newsweek!

    That one tends to hinge on (mostly) hbs culture. It also refers specifically to transexual acceptance, not transgender acceptance. And, knock-on-wood, but there's not many of them left. One hinges on surgery while the other hinges on concepts-of-masculinity, but the end result is the same-certainly nothing pleasant.

    and you're confusing much. How sex is constructed isn't quite how gender is played out internally or in an everyday social sphere, although they mix and can share quite a bit.

    There's also that the 'opposite brain' theory is a mesh of a lot of weird odd and ends that people have confused with each other, including outside pressure for finding a cause. And you're mimicking it by insisting that trans people believe they are their behavioral mannerisms. Just cuz that's what your ass focuses on doesn't mean mannerisms = gender.
    I'm not cruel, sir, I won't shoot you in the guts, but I will make you realize how much you took your toes for granted.
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  19. #19
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
    If we removed stringent gender roles, this discussion would be very different. I do not believe gender is innate or based on mentality, it is based on sex chromosomes. The notion that sex chromosomes determine one's likes and interests is just the patriarchy enforcing gender norms.
    Yes, that's it. One goes through all the trouble of socially and/or medically transitioning just to get stuck with another set of "Can't do this". Lots of sense there. While a few people do, most end up giving your shoddy opinion the literal finger. When you harp on about cis people not broadening those social norms enough by their very existence then I'll consider taking that seriously.

    Meanwhile, the people who've never, ever considered transitioning in any form remain safely under the "Surely I have an objective view...." rock, despite that not even being remotely possible.

    If it were entirely socially constructed or entirely nurture then there's either be no trans people at all or hordes of us overwhelming you during the fabric of society's ritualistic crumbles. Neither occurs. It's probably a mix - give it up already and leave my existence in peace. Go examine your own damn self.

    You realize you can't really mandate a people out of existence by broadening social gender roles and tweaking clothing, right? Because women have been expanding that for decades and, aha, they're still here.
    I'm not cruel, sir, I won't shoot you in the guts, but I will make you realize how much you took your toes for granted.
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  20. #20

    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by luckynumbah7 View Post
    Yes, that's it. One goes through all the trouble of socially and/or medically transitioning just to get stuck with another set of "Can't do this". Lots of sense there. While a few people do, most end up giving your shoddy opinion the literal finger. When you harp on about cis people not broadening those social norms enough by their very existence then I'll consider taking that seriously.
    But what if one wants the gender roles of the sex to which they were not assigned at birth? Jenner has made it clear that her view of what "woman" means is someone who wears heels, dresses, and nail polish. Read what she has said about her gender.. it is very much based on stereotypical gender norms.

    Meanwhile, the people who've never, ever considered transitioning in any form remain safely under the "Surely I have an objective view...." rock, despite that not even being remotely possible.

    If it were entirely socially constructed or entirely nurture then there's either be no trans people at all or hordes of us overwhelming you during the fabric of society's ritualistic crumbles. Neither occurs. It's probably a mix - give it up already and leave my existence in peace. Go examine your own damn self.

    You realize you can't really mandate a people out of existence by broadening social gender roles and tweaking clothing, right? Because women have been expanding that for decades and, aha, they're still here.

    So do you believe then that if society never mandated gender roles, gender dysphoria would exist? If so, you believe gender is innate and known to oneself and is independent of societal conditioning... essentially, that there are male and female brains. No?

  21. #21
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Life is complicated enough without having to create more confustion. People can have a wide range in their racial makeup, but it's silly to call them a "transracial" and attempt to single them out and give them some special rights.

  22. #22
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    pops wot 1st educarturds up a wazoo vote fa gerkins world ova again ans again ansagain

    hint

    tinku

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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
    But what if one wants the gender roles of the sex to which they were not assigned at birth? Jenner has made it clear that her view of what "woman" means is someone who wears heels, dresses, and nail polish. Read what she has said about her gender.. it is very much based on stereotypical gender norms.

    So do you believe then that if society never mandated gender roles, gender dysphoria would exist? If so, you believe gender is innate and known to oneself and is independent of societal conditioning... essentially, that there are male and female brains. No?
    No. You need to fast forward about forty odd years, you seem to be stuck somewhere in the second wave's favorite regurgitation points - which, funnily enough, veered so radically off-course just to insult trans people that there's generic lists of who's a shit author on the subject, why, and how. To the extent that literary awards have been rejected due in part because of both the inethical data methods and malicious intent of the work. When you reach the nineties then we'll talk.

    Jenner's view of herself isn't any different than every other random cis person on the planet. Or do you not listen to what 'being a man/woman means to me' when it pops up as a topic of conversation? The difference is how you're conceptualizing what's essentially a teenage-minded process. That second puberty's a bitch.
    I'm not cruel, sir, I won't shoot you in the guts, but I will make you realize how much you took your toes for granted.
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  24. #24
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Hell, everything is better with comics

    Self-Affirmation

    https://www.facebook.com/assignedmal...type=3&theater

    Sex and gender, law vs social expectations

    https://www.facebook.com/assignedmal...type=3&theater

    How do you know

    https://www.facebook.com/assignedmal...type=3&theater

    https://www.facebook.com/assignedmal...type=3&theater

    One of several reasons why people in early transition never bring up gender nonconforming behavior with cis people. It's all you generally focus on. Can't win for trying, either, either you're 'not trying hard enough, can't take you seriously' or you're 'obviously faking those excessive mannerisms'.

    tho if you're really, really special you might get a '...But you don't look trans!"

    https://www.facebook.com/assignedmal...type=3&theater
    I'm not cruel, sir, I won't shoot you in the guts, but I will make you realize how much you took your toes for granted.
    ― Terry Pratchett, Snuff

  25. #25

    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    None of those address my thoughts that gender is not something we "choose" it is something that is beyond our control. If someone wants to identify as something that is not what they were born, though, I will accept them as such, use their preferred pronouns, call them the name they wish to be called. But this "how do you know you are not a woman?" comic, well I don't think gender is something we choose.

    I don't have to consider Caitlyn Jenner a woman, or anyone to be anything. But I will call them what they prefer to be called as a courtesy to that individual. And I would never tell them to their face in person if I actually consider them what they say they are, I wouldn't want to hurt their feelings or cause undue stress.

  26. #26

    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Honestly I probably would be happier as a woman but I would never transition, in large part because I don't think that doing so would make me a woman.

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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
    Honestly I probably would be happier as a woman but I would never transition, in large part because I don't think that doing so would make me a woman.
    female ape

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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
    Honestly I probably would be happier as a woman ...
    Why? How? Whom?
    .

  29. #29

    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    Why? How? Whom?
    I think it is due to resentment of my father and the fact that I grew up distrusting men. I obviously do not want to be a woman to the extent where I've been compelled to transition. And I think with different upbringing and a better father figure I would feel differently. Also that I am short and fairly petite and often made to not feel like I compare well to other men.

    I of course do consider myself male.

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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by luckynumbah7 View Post
    No. You need to fast forward about forty odd years, you seem to be stuck somewhere in the second wave's favorite regurgitation points - which, funnily enough, veered so radically off-course just to insult trans people that there's generic lists of who's a shit author on the subject, why, and how. To the extent that literary awards have been rejected due in part because of both the inethical data methods and malicious intent of the work. When you reach the nineties then we'll talk.

    Jenner's view of herself isn't any different than every other random cis person on the planet. Or do you not listen to what 'being a man/woman means to me' when it pops up as a topic of conversation? The difference is how you're conceptualizing what's essentially a teenage-minded process. That second puberty's a bitch.
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
    Honestly I probably would be happier as a woman but I would never transition, in large part because I don't think that doing so would make me a woman.
    So transition and don't be a woman?

    Exactly who have you been reading, anyway? There should be warning labels on some of those tombs.
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen_Walker View Post
    I hate how smart and eloquent you are.
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    I understand where virulentpeach is coming from----I have a trans cousin and I don't get it but it's whatever---it took me a while to adjust but I'm okay with it---even if she likes macho men one day and has a girlfriend the next---she can identify any way she wants--although I will say she was a very sweet very smart nerdy guy and now she's still very smart but what she thinks a woman is and what she should be--well it's rather weird----I never thought of transracial until recently and guess I feel the same way---although it does seem like some deep psychological crap that is too deep for me to understand. But I suppose if a white person wants to be black or vice versa ---identify away and hope you have a happy life. But I think many Black Americans aren't going to accept transracial any more than some gays will accept transgender---because MorrisseyX opinion I have heard many times from gay guys.
    Last edited by nycguydowntown; April 13th, 2016 at 04:41 PM.

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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
    None of those address my thoughts that gender is not something we "choose" it is something that is beyond our control. If someone wants to identify as something that is not what they were born...
    This is central to the problem and why it's not the same as race. I agree (depending on the definition) that gender is not a choice. That's the point. People who transition do not, as a group, "want to" identify with a gender other than that to which they were assigned at birth. They haven't picked it out or preferred it over other viable choices. It's the result of a long, difficult process.

    Race, as you pointed out earlier, is more subjective. That doesn't mean I think "transracial" (which I don't define as you do) is similar to transgender. Identifying with a component of your background (or even an adopted culture) is a very different thing.

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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    no 1 askin but wike whos accepted?

    or ya tinkin accept self <not a many 1steess figa dat cause mades by etc

    so

    wizard a oz?

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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Transgender:I don't necessarily think transgender people are mentally ill. I just think they do what makes them happy.

    Which is why many feminine gay men do try act like woman and crossdress and make money doing drag shows.

    Also why I think many lesbians cut all their hair off, go to the mens section to buy clothes, and some even grow facial hair and remove their breasts, as they consider themselves a man.

    I do believe they can't help how they feel and I have no problem with people that are transgender and it should be accepted in my opinion. I just wish they understand that others are allowed to disagree with it, like others still disagree with homosexuality.

    Transracial:I'm on the fence about. Because if you think about it, it's not really that much different from transgenderism which I accept and understand. I have known many instances of white people who didn't grow up in the ghetto or inner city, but listen to hip hop and urban music. Involve themselves and their social relations are with primarily inner city blacks. They will know all the black street slang and lexicon, and basically be wiggers. Do I think these people are acting? No, I don't and maybe they are transracial.

    However at the end of the day, these people are still white and still reap the benefits of being an anglo saxon race.

    Then on the flip side you have blacks that talk "white". Whether or not they grew up in the inner city or ghetto, most typically they did not grow up in a bad area, and in some cases were adopted or raised by whites. Don't have the street mentality or that mindset. Socially involve themselves primarily with whites that are upper social class society. Are conservative. Maybe are in situations to where they are the only black and feel ostracized. They then will start to self hate themselves. Start to hate that they are black and begin to think they are black on the outside and not on the inside. They are called oreos or Uncle Tom's. It's sad.

    It's the same way with other races. There are latinos that pass and want to be white. Asians that want to be black. Indians that want to look European or Mediterranean. etc.

    Then you have mixed race people which is another issue altogether.

    I honestly believe both should be accepted and looked into more and discovered more.

    I mean you can't choose your gender, and you can't choose your race either.

    Great topic you brought up.
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    I have to confess: this thread isn't the shitfest I feared when I read the OP. Yet.

  38. #38
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
    But in my case it is actually real (I have African ancestry). Caitlyn Jenner can identify as a woman and I will respect it, but she is biologically male. But advocates will argue that Jenner is a woman just by virtue of saying so. Why is the same standard not applying to both?
    No, she is a woman by virtue of the operation she had. Other wise she would still be a male. That's the whole point. Physically she would still be as she was born without "corrective" surgery. There is no "corrective" surgery for wanting to be from a different culture.



    I am confused as to your point here. "Race" is a social construct devised to capture biological differences, but it changes with time and place. Therefore, it is fluid to some degree.
    No, you are just confused. As I said there is only ONE race of sentient being. Homo Sapiens, humans. That race is broken down into categories to group genetic variations in the parent race. That does not make them different races, they are all part of the single race.



    I am not confusing anything. Transgender acceptance relies on the notion that someone has a "female brain in a male body" or vice versa,
    No. Transgender has nothing to do with any of that. It is about an individual feeling so strongly that they are in the wrong gender body (brain included) that they have surgery to change their body to that of the "proper" gender.

    but do we not realize that this notion that women and men have different brains has been used for so long to oppress women? Moreover, it is not scientifically proven that men and women have different brains.
    This is where your confusion seems to come in. Transgender has nothing to do with the brain, otherwise brain surgery would be involved to correct. The individual believes, in the very core of their being, that they are in the wrong gender body, nothing to do with the brain, that they have surgery to adjust their body.

    I personally believe that many trans people believe they were born in the wrong body because we as a society keep telling people "Boys can't play with dolls and cry" and "Women must be dainty and delicate and do their hair" etc. So whenever someone doesn't do what SOCIETY says they should, they think they are the wrong gender but really it's society's fault.
    No. There's far more to it than that. From my understanding it is that their gender feels so alien to them as to be completely wrong. It has nothing to do with what society says they should be.

    You claim you have some African heritage, that is entirely probable. There are many blended families like that. There is nothing wrong with wanting to understand and pay respect to this other heritage. It doesn't mean you have to toss out the cultural heritage you grew up with. It doesn't mean you suddenly "become" a different race. You are still the same human you've always been. You just learn about where that set of great/grandparents came from and the heritage and culture they grew up with.

    If you truly want to be trans-racial there are rumors about scientists working on splicing animal DNA into human test subjects. This is all done secretly so good luck finding one of them. And just a word of caution..... some of the rumors suggest the DNA isn't actually terrestrial, but completely alien..... You may end up with urine secretion glands in place of your salivary glands.... That'll leave a bad taste in your mouth more than likely.

    Good luck.
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Any man who prefers sex with another man, yet says a man who wants be a woman or vice versa is against his notions of nature, should move out of his glass house.

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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    I'm not 100% sure how you are defining trans-racial.

    I think of someone -utterly not part of a race- deciding that they'd rather identify with, and identify as, and "act/dress/speak like", a member of that race. Or someone who simply "doesn't want to be" the race they were born as.

    You used yourself as an example and mentioned African heritage and saying people criticize you for claiming it; to me that wouldn't qualify, since you actually have African heritage.

    Me, personally? No, I don't accept that someone can be trans-racial, they can make-pretend that they'd rather be some other race than the one they were born into. That someone could culturally assimilate into another culture, yes. That someone actually migrates from being white to black (or any other variation), no.

    I also don't accept that the logic is or even need be identical between transgender and trans-racial because there is a great deal of research to suggest that gender identity affects a great deal of personality formation and even the behavior of the brain itself, and there is no such relationship for race. One cannot struggle with a feeling their whole life that they are "really black inside" when they are not. I don't accept people "feeling more like" or "preferring to identify as" as being the same thing as biologically believing one is in the wrong body.

  41. #41
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
    No, they are different. I am homosexual because I am male and attracted to men. Caitlyn Jenner is identifying as female most likely because she never felt happy living out male gender roles, which is an issue not with Jenner herself, but the gender roles and the notion that men HAVE to be one way and women another.

    If we removed stringent gender roles, this discussion would be very different. I do not believe gender is innate or based on mentality, it is based on sex chromosomes. The notion that sex chromosomes determine one's likes and interests is just the patriarchy enforcing gender norms.
    No. There are biological imperatives that define gender in the same way that homosexuality is not just about somebody making a choice that they like men.

    There are clinics now that help children as young as 4 or 5 deal with gender identity. Many transsexuals will tell you that they felt like they were living in the wrong body well before puberty.

    So they are choosing to live as the other sex because they are unhappy living as the gender they were born with...they recognize a fundamental psychological identification with the opposite gender.

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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Think it's interesting how a country like India accepts on some level transgender but still arrests and throw in jail gay guys.

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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    So if a white man identifies as a black or a woman he qualifies for affirmative action?

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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    I hear you, VP. There is nothing I hate more than being identified as Swedish when I'm Norwegian. What an insult!!
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by MorrisseyX View Post
    Since when do gay people accept transgender people? I certainly do not and many gay people feel the same way BUT are afraid to say so. Transgender issues are really nothing to do with gay issues. I do believe trans people do experience discrimination but I also think they are mentally ill. Caitlyn Jenner is proof of this to destroy his three sons lives by becoming a woman is so selfish and wrong. Transgender people are superficial and their issues are not real but artificial.
    But...we're like " One burlap bag, 3 coins"- an idiom from my country which means 3 unrelated things but together dragged under same cause. It's no win-win situation.

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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Is this a joke or something? Race as in (black, white, asian, and etc) is a social concept that doesn't even have any scientific merit to it. You cant think or act black or white without it being straight ignorant. Sounds like you need to educate yourself on race, breh.


    Think it's funny how too many gay people use the whole victimization, member of being in an oppressed group as an excuse to be and remain ignorant or to be bigoted and prejudiced themselves. Like dissing Transgendered people like they've done something to you then begging others to accept and respect them for who they are. Some of ya'll are just truly miserable beyond reach and lying with fake pride and confidence.
    Last edited by refujiunderground; April 15th, 2016 at 07:33 AM.
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by refujiunderground View Post
    Is this a joke or something? Race as in (black, white, asian, and etc) is a social concept that doesn't even have any scientific merit to it. You cant think or act black or white without it being straight ignorant. Sounds like you need to educate yourself on race, breh.
    I'd say the point is that the concept of gender, as opposed to sex as Willie Boy was discussing, appears just like that to some cis people or at least me. I don't what parameters pre-op transpeople use to identify. On the outside, it looks like they've taken cultural baggage associated with the opposite sex and used it define their own and I'm not just talking about how they want to look or stereotypically manly/feminine pursuits.

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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devois View Post
    I'd say the point is that the concept of gender, as opposed to sex as Willie Boy was discussing, appears just like that to some cis people or at least me. I don't what parameters pre-op transpeople use to identify. On the outside, it looks like they've taken cultural baggage associated with the opposite sex and used it define their own and I'm not just talking about how they want to look or stereotypically manly/feminine pursuits.
    To be fair, I've no idea how you came to the "I ain't changing shit" choice, either. That's why I liked the cereal box comic. Or the "Nice gender. Did your doctor pick it out for you?" T-shirt. From over here it looks like you do the exact same thing, with the caveat that there was no introspection on your end over what trappings you'd favor in whatever range, physical or social. It's just largely assumed that you don't want to, so there must be some reason for it and none of you will tell us what it is, either.
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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by luckynumbah7 View Post
    To be fair, I've no idea how you came to the "I ain't changing shit" choice, either. That's why I liked the cereal box comic. Or the "Nice gender. Did your doctor pick it out for you?" T-shirt. From over here it looks like you do the exact same thing, with the caveat that there was no introspection on your end over what trappings you'd favor in whatever range, physical or social. It's just largely assumed that you don't want to, so there must be some reason for it and none of you will tell us what it is, either.
    Curious. Still, I don't know what choice you're talking about. Transitioning? If so, what does it really entail?

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    Re: If transgender is accepted, should "transracial" also be accepted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devois View Post
    Curious. Still, I don't know what choice you're talking about. Transitioning? If so, what does it really entail?
    I'm not talking about transitioning itself. Transitioning is what happens after you notice shit went personally wrong somewhere. I'm talking about the first bit, before transition. To get to whether you want to transition or not you'd need to try and find out what's bothering you, why and how. But most cis people don't seem to have a similar process. You lot just....sit there like bumps on a log, going "But why're they wearing a skirt and what does it mean for me...". As if a piece of fabric was ...anything other than a piece of fabric, when entirely on its lonesome.
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