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    JUB Addict evanrick's Avatar
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    Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    The Middle East?

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    Um, what? The article doesn't support your thread title -- it isn't about welfare, and it doesn't say what it costs us each.

    The article is actually about the fact that bureaucracies of various sorts, mostly but not exclusively government, suck up resources that put the bureaucrats in an income bracket substantially above the median, thus using the poor as a lever to enrich themselves.

    It's the flip side of capitalism. Capitalism is the belief that if you get rich enough, the rest of the world owes you more wealth without you having to work at all. This is bureaucrats believing that the plight of the poor is another way to bleed wealth into their pockets... preferably without having to work at all.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  4. #4

    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    I'm glad someone read the article albeit a waste of time given it's so-called source piece is a hack / lie filled study by the Heritage Foundation.....you know that paragon of truth that former Sen. Jim Demint runs.

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    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    Hey Evanrick. You lost me here.

    Welfare doesn't cost each American $16 K. Where did you get that interpretation?

    But I can tell you where all the money goes. 100% of it goes right back into the economy, because anyone on assistance spends 100% of what they make. So it goes back into goods and services...paying the wages of those who work in production and sales...it goes into the profit margins of the store owners and the banks and the mega corporations...it lands in the wallets of the middle class investors and the oligarchs.

    And it comes back to each and every one of the bitchers, moaners and complainers who don't comprehend that if everyone on earth were paid a decent wage, the tide would lift all ships.
    Last edited by rareboy; July 8th, 2014 at 03:12 AM.

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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    Please advise: do not feed lost and confused Jubbers

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    JUB Addict evanrick's Avatar
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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    I don't support heritage i know demint runs it but it brings up important points. The cost of welfare divided by the number of poor is $16,000 per person a year. But a lot of it goes into sustaining useless jobs. So yes it is anticapitalism in government, it reduces our freedoms because it perpetuates the idea, yes, if your another part of that sector of leeches that makes a living off the poor.

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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    ^ NO, the welfare budget in the United States is NOT $5 TRILLION per year. That's what $16,000 per person adds up to. Sounds more like the total federal budget.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - We need a 28th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution which resembles this...NOW!

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  9. #9

    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Um, what? The article doesn't support your thread title -- it isn't about welfare, and it doesn't say what it costs us each.

    The article is actually about the fact that bureaucracies of various sorts, mostly but not exclusively government, suck up resources that put the bureaucrats in an income bracket substantially above the median, thus using the poor as a lever to enrich themselves.

    It's the flip side of capitalism. Capitalism is the belief that if you get rich enough, the rest of the world owes you more wealth without you having to work at all. This is bureaucrats believing that the plight of the poor is another way to bleed wealth into their pockets... preferably without having to work at all.
    No, no, no. The welfare system is liberal democrat device and, in the nature of things, it is administered by social workers and other liberals. More importantly, democrats see government workers as voters, easily bought by big salaries.

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    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanrick View Post
    I don't support heritage i know demint runs it but it brings up important points. The cost of welfare divided by the number of poor is $16,000 per person a year. But a lot of it goes into sustaining useless jobs. So yes it is anticapitalism in government, it reduces our freedoms because it perpetuates the idea, yes, if your another part of that sector of leeches that makes a living off the poor.
    I don't think that you still have a grasp on what the article is saying here. The article is saying that a portion of the additional $16,500 per recipient goes to Landlords paid under section 8 and to medical practitioners paid through medicaid....However note that the author doesn't bother to identify that number...but just bunched up these very substantial direct benefits with all the administrative overhead.

    Don't feel badly for the rich and the super-rich or even the middle class taxpayer though, because 100% of all the money spent on the program goes directly back into the pockets of the middle-class and rich as I've already pointed out. Welfare is one of the best things to ever happen to make all those corporations owned by the oligarchs richer.

    Don't get fooled into thinking that the administration of this program just leads to useless jobs. These middle class jobs are very useful. Because what you and the Benvolio's of the world need to recognize is that the resource and manufacturing industry jobs aren't coming back. Ever. And the entire country can't be sucking at the huge teat of defense spending programs...which, one could certainly argue....is loaded with people doing useless jobs.

    The financial industry....which literally produces no product or value added service....is about 100% useless jobs...held by people who are always just skimming some off the top for the favour of manipulating an entirely artificial system of money. But all of these non-productive sectors are considered as somehow morally superior to agency workers ensuring that the underpaid workers who are subsidizing the offshore tax evading corporations get barely enough to be able to shop in the Walmarts and live in the tenement cities across the US.

    The entire economy of the US deserves and desperately needs a re-think to figure out how to turn swords into ploughshares and ensure prosperity for every citizen in the future. In the same way that England lost their position in the post-war economy because they failed to innovate, the US is losing the opportunity to create the type of educated and progressive society that would be able to make everything work for the overall interest of Americans instead of the 1% of the 1%, who, as I type this, are in the process of moving hundreds of billions of dollars around in order to avoid having to pay their workers a living wage and to pick up the tab for their share of the infrastructure that the public provides for them.
    Last edited by rareboy; July 15th, 2014 at 10:49 AM.

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    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    Just to expand on the above....Medicaid and Housing vouchers account for 37% of the total federal expenditure on welfare programs. Leaving these expenditures lumped in with overhead costs is misleading and disingenuous.

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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    Thank you for expanding on this topic of useless jobs, that is my point. Its not a partisan view.

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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    If you only count the poor and add in corporate welfare its probably in that range.

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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanrick View Post
    Thank you for expanding on this topic of useless jobs, that is my point. Its not a partisan view.
    Put a face on welfare, it puts a roof over the head of people who would otherwise be living on the streets. It pays for utilities that keep people from freezing to death in the winter.
    It puts food in the belly of old people, children and the disabled. It helps those that have lost their jobs to global trade to stay off of the streets and in their homes.

    Yes as with all things in government there is waste, $20,000. or what ever for a toilet seat in the military, I don't see much bitching about that.

  15. #15
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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    The cost of a person on subsidy to the government (the People) is not the same as the cost to every person in the country for the support of those on subsidy. DIFFERENT denominators, friend.

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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    It goes towards making sure people have food in their stomachs and a roof over their heads.

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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Don't feel badly for the rich and the super-rich or even the middle class taxpayer though, because 100% of all the money spent on the program goes directly back into the pockets of the middle-class and rich as I've already pointed out. Welfare is one of the best things to ever happen to make all those corporations owned by the oligarchs richer.
    And "Obamacare" bypasses the government, requiring citizens to be customers regardless of choice -- proving he's no liberal, but a tool of the corporations.

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Don't get fooled into thinking that the administration of this program just leads to useless jobs. These middle class jobs are very useful. Because what you and the Benvolio's of the world need to recognize is that the resource and manufacturing industry jobs aren't coming back. Ever. And the entire country can't be sucking at the huge teat of defense spending programs...which, one could certainly argue....is loaded with people doing useless jobs.
    Even China is facing that dilemma: all the jobs they've imported are in danger because automation is taking over even there. We aren't far from the point where there will be no manufacturing jobs anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    The financial industry....which literally produces no product or value added service....is about 100% useless jobs...held by people who are always just skimming some off the top for the favour of manipulating an entirely artificial system of money. But all of these non-productive sectors are considered as somehow morally superior to agency workers ensuring that the underpaid workers who are subsidizing the offshore tax evading corporations get barely enough to be able to shop in the Walmarts and live in the tenement cities across the US.
    What a wonderful way to describe it! People thinking up new ways to move money from one place to another without producing anything of use, and paying themselves handsomely for their teaching electrons to dance.

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    The entire economy of the US deserves and desperately needs a re-think to figure out how to turn swords into ploughshares and ensure prosperity for every citizen in the future. In the same way that England lost their position in the post-war economy because they failed to innovate, the US is losing the opportunity to create the type of educated and progressive society that would be able to make everything work for the overall interest of Americans instead of the 1% of the 1%, who, as I type this, are in the process of moving hundreds of billions of dollars around in order to avoid having to pay their workers a living wage and to pick up the tab for their share of the infrastructure that the public provides for them.
    First step: bestow all land and resource ownership on a single not-for-profit foundation, which will collect the rent from title holders and distribute at least half the income as equal dividends to all citizens who can read. Non-citizens, including illegals of course, get nada. This would also have the effect of, for the first time in history, having a rational basis for ownership of land: we all are part of the country, so we all own it.



    note: the government would have to pay land rent to this foundation, too -- no free riders.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    Put a face on welfare, it puts a roof over the head of people who would otherwise be living on the streets. It pays for utilities that keep people from freezing to death in the winter.
    It puts food in the belly of old people, children and the disabled. It helps those that have lost their jobs to global trade to stay off of the streets and in their homes.
    Welfare and such continue to bother me because as far as I can see they don't treat people as equal before the law. We should just go to a system where everyone get a basic stipend for food, another for clothing, another for housing.

    But the benefits to the free market are obvious no matter which way you do it: customers still have money. Business failure due to economic disturbance distorts the free market by favoring the large, thus stifling job creation along with innovation. Unemployment insurance, food stamps, and the like support the free market by keeping the customer base minimally stable.

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    Yes as with all things in government there is waste, $20,000. or what ever for a toilet seat in the military, I don't see much bitching about that.
    LOL

    I head about one of those $20k toilets from an ROTC friend. There are places in the military where they used to be necessary; technology has advanced, though, and made the need for most of them obsolete.

    A toilet in nil-gravity is still bloody complicated, though.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  19. #19
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Granite View Post
    [The linked article is] … a hack / lie filled study by the Heritage Foundation.
    Though you will not be afforded an opportunity to respond, I find no obvious connection to The Heritage Foundation in this particular publication.


    Quote Originally Posted by evanrick View Post
    … a lot of [the cost of welfare assistance cited in the linked article] goes into sustaining useless jobs. So yes it is anticapitalism in government, it reduces our freedoms because it perpetuates the idea, yes, if your another part of that sector of leeches that makes a living off the poor.
    It would have been helpful for you to have added some personal commentary to the opening post.


    The author of this Opinion-Editorial, Glenn Reynolds, describes himself as a Libertarian Transhumanist.

    American political scientist, political economist, and author, Francis Fukuyama has characterized Transhumanism as one of the world’s most dangerous ideas.


    Libertarian Transhumanists believe that the principle of self-ownership is the most fundamental idea from which both Libertarianism and Transhumanism stem. They are rational egoists and ethical egoists who embrace the prospect of using emerging technologies to enhance human capacities, which they believe stems from the self-interested application of reason and will in the context of the individual freedom to achieve a post human state of complete physical, mental, and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity. They extend this rational and ethical egoism to advocate a form of “biolibertarianism.”

    [Wiki] {Bailey, Ronald (2005). Liberation Biology: The Scientific and Moral Case For the Biotech Revolution. Prometheus Books.}

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    JUB Addict evanrick's Avatar
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    Re: Welfare costs Americans $16,000 each per year, where does it all go?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post

    Yes as with all things in government there is waste, $20,000. or what ever for a toilet seat in the military, I don't see much bitching about that.
    if a republican was president right now we would be fighting two more useless wars, Syria and probably gone back into Iraq. if mccain and the neo-cons want a war so bad why dont they hold a vote to go to war? maybe because they know it would never become law.
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