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  1. #1
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    Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    I hope Alito can live with his decisions, I couldn't.

    labor's foes to challenge the basic model of public-employee unionism, in which non-union employees can be made to pay dues to a union for bargaining on their behalf, representing them in grievance issues, etc. Harris makes such a challenge; it's what Alito asked for.

    http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014...me-court-union
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  2. #2

    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    If you are referring to today's decision on interrim appointments, I would note that it was not just Justice Alito. The decision was unanimous.

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by big_guy View Post
    If you are referring to today's decision on interrim appointments, I would note that it was not just Justice Alito. The decision was unanimous.
    Um, what in that article sounds at all like "interim appointments"???

    It is a scary possibility looming. Forming unions is at least as much a right as forming corporations -- they both rest on the same foundation, i.e. the right to associate with those you choose in order to pursue your goals.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    It's a terrifying prospect that would be the final catalyst in wiping out the middle-class. It would destroy nearly 200 years of workers rights that our forefathers built on sweat, tears, and blood.
    #439th oldest member on JUB.

  5. #5

    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Um, what in that article sounds at all like "interim appointments"???

    It is a scary possibility looming. Forming unions is at least as much a right as forming corporations -- they both rest on the same foundation, i.e. the right to associate with those you choose in order to pursue your goals.
    Look again. The issue is the right NOT to associate, i.e., not to "choose" to pay big dues to the union bosses.

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    I'll be fine with them not paying dues as long as they don't ask for help.

  7. #7

    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    I'll be fine with them not paying dues as long as they don't ask for help.
    It may be fine with you, but the labor bosses and democrats want to force everyone to pay them. A big chunk of the extorted dues go to the democrats. In return, the democrat politicians give the union members exaggerated salaries and pensions at taxpayer expense.

  8. #8

    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Never underestimate the capacity of the 5 Republican SCOTUS appointees to make decisions on behalf of the 1%.

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    Never underestimate the capacity of the 5 Republican SCOTUS appointees to make decisions on behalf of the 1%.
    Quite right indeed. Unions are under attack in America, the Gates foundation seems to be laying blame on teachers unions for lackluster student performance. They are teachers, not parents.

    The 1% despises organized resistance, their pathological apologists would not think twice about throwing other Americans under the bus.
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  10. #10

    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    Never underestimate the capacity of the 5 Republican SCOTUS appointees to make decisions on behalf of the 1%.
    This decision benefits the ordinary homeowners and taxpayers. Union dues put democrats in office so the unions are " negotiating" with their own creatures, to extort as much from ordinary people as possible. Many cities are in trouble because of the exorbitant pensions imposed by the politicians the unions bought.

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    I'll be fine with them not paying dues as long as they don't ask for help.
    And as long as they don't get any of the raises or benefits the union people do.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    Never underestimate the capacity of the 5 Republican SCOTUS appointees to make decisions on behalf of the 0.1%.
    Fixed that.

    It doesn't matter what the issue really is, Scalia and his ilk will manage to twist it into something benefitting wealth and nothing else, just as they managed to do with Citizens United, the ultimate example of a case decided rightly with all the wrong results.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Sad to say but only will the unions are all gone will people realize all the good they've done for the country and for workers.

  14. #14

    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    As the last of our manufacturing is unionized out existence, people will realize the great harm unions have done.

  15. #15
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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Benvolio is doing cartwheels right now...the war on unions and the war on women is being won by the dark side.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
    "But, hey, who cares about women and their rights when the religious liberty of a nationwide chain of arts and crafts stores is at stake?" - Daily Kos, 30 June 2014
    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    As the last of our manufacturing is unionized out existence, people will realize the great harm unions have done.
    What planet do you live on? The war on unions is about to be won, leaving us in corporate slavery.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  17. #17

    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    What planet do you live on? The war on unions is about to be won, leaving us in corporate slavery.
    The unions have been shrinking for years, because they have largely won the war against heavy manufacturing. Our industry is a mere shadow of what it was when the labor laws were enacted. If the unions stop squeezing, members see no need to pay dues.

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The unions have been shrinking for years, because they have largely won the war against heavy manufacturing. Our industry is a mere shadow of what it was when the labor laws were enacted. If the unions stop squeezing, members see no need to pay dues.
    You really don't have a clue about unions, or about why they've been shrinking. One major reason for the latter is that the corporate-controlled media have served their masters well by spreading the demagoguery of which you are so fond.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Benvolio, perhaps you haven't noticed but unions are at their lowest levels since the 1920's.
    Hence why profits for people at the top are at an all time high while wages for workers are stagnant and will remain that way.
    But keep telling yourself that at some point, those at the top will share their gains with everyone else, you'll only realize that isn't the case when you find yourself living paycheck to paycheck despite working 50 plus hours a week.

  20. #20

    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    Benvolio, perhaps you haven't noticed but unions are at their lowest levels since the 1920's.
    Hence why profits for people at the top are at an all time high while wages for workers are stagnant and will remain that way.
    But keep telling yourself that at some point, those at the top will share their gains with everyone else, you'll only realize that isn't the case when you find yourself living paycheck to paycheck despite working 50 plus hours a week.
    Wages are stagnant because we continue to flood the country with poor and unemployed people willing to work cheap. Wages would rise if we had a shortage of labor.
    The unions are at their lowest point in decades because manufacturing is dwindling. Unions succeeded back in the days when the US had virtually no competition in things like autos, appliances, steel. Believe it or not, the US used to manufacture radios and TVs, but then they were unionized. The unions won the war against the manufacturers. With foreign competition, unions are limited in what they can command without destroying their companies ability to compete.

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    Benvolio, perhaps you haven't noticed but unions are at their lowest levels since the 1920's.
    Hence why profits for people at the top are at an all time high while wages for workers are stagnant and will remain that way.
    But keep telling yourself that at some point, those at the top will share their gains with everyone else, you'll only realize that isn't the case when you find yourself living paycheck to paycheck despite working 50 plus hours a week.
    And he won't admit that capitalism cannot work without a vigorous middle class. Corporations are cutting their own throats by paying such low wages.

    For starters, the federal government should calculate the amount of government assistance a corporation requires its workers to use, and send those corporations a bill. What outfits like Walmart and McDonalds are doing is legal theft, ripping off the taxpayers.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  22. #22
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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Wages are stagnant because we continue to flood the country with poor and unemployed people willing to work cheap. Wages would rise if we had a shortage of labor.
    The unions are at their lowest point in decades because manufacturing is dwindling. Unions succeeded back in the days when the US had virtually no competition in things like autos, appliances, steel. Believe it or not, the US used to manufacture radios and TVs, but then they were unionized. The unions won the war against the manufacturers. With foreign competition, unions are limited in what they can command without destroying their companies ability to compete.
    Bullshit. Wages are low because corporations don't give a shit about the country or about Americans, or they'd keep hiring as though those immigrants weren't around. So they employ non-citizens who will work for lower wages, and when they have to hire citizens they pay the same they pay the non-citizens.

    On a very practical level, by their actions, corporations doing so hate America: they undercut good wages for the sake of more profit, they employ non-citizens preferentially, and they require the government to pony up for the wages they don't pay. And they buy politicians to make sure they get their way. There's not a patriot among them; they don't care about the country except to manipulate it as a tool for their own enrichment.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  23. #23

    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Bullshit. Wages are low because corporations don't give a shit about the country or about Americans, or they'd keep hiring as though those immigrants weren't around. So they employ non-citizens who will work for lower wages, and when they have to hire citizens they pay the same they pay the non-citizens.

    On a very practical level, by their actions, corporations doing so hate America: they undercut good wages for the sake of more profit, they employ non-citizens preferentially, and they require the government to pony up for the wages they don't pay. And they buy politicians to make sure they get their way. There's not a patriot among them; they don't care about the country except to manipulate it as a tool for their own enrichment.
    How little you know. The law prohibits discrimination against immigrants or in favor of citizens. Be warned. Your suggestion is close to the dread " citizenism". Opinterph will get you.

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    How little you know. The law prohibits discrimination against immigrants or in favor of citizens. Be warned. Your suggestion is close to the dread " citizenism". Opinterph will get you.
    If you think corporations don't find ways to work around the law, you're incredibly naive.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  25. #25

    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Bullshit. Wages are low because corporations don't give a shit about the country or about Americans, or they'd keep hiring as though those immigrants weren't around. So they employ non-citizens who will work for lower wages, and when they have to hire citizens they pay the same they pay the non-citizens.

    On a very practical level, by their actions, corporations doing so hate America: they undercut good wages for the sake of more profit, they employ non-citizens preferentially, and they require the government to pony up for the wages they don't pay. And they buy politicians to make sure they get their way. There's not a patriot among them; they don't care about the country except to manipulate it as a tool for their own enrichment.
    Clearly the answer is to stop the immigration.

  26. #26
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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Bullshit. Wages are low because corporations don't give a shit about the country or about Americans, or they'd keep hiring as though those immigrants weren't around. So they employ non-citizens who will work for lower wages, and when they have to hire citizens they pay the same they pay the non-citizens.

    On a very practical level, by their actions, corporations doing so hate America: they undercut good wages for the sake of more profit, they employ non-citizens preferentially, and they require the government to pony up for the wages they don't pay. And they buy politicians to make sure they get their way. There's not a patriot among them; they don't care about the country except to manipulate it as a tool for their own enrichment.
    how can you lay on the blame on corporations, though? they're just supporting the consumer demand to pay $.10 for a product made in China rather than $10 for the same product made down the road.

    I'm a big supporter of unions in general, but definitely in favor of this particular ruling. if someone wants to eschew union donations and bargain for raises/perks on their own rather than collectively, they should have that right; let the unions prove their worth rather than being supported whether the workers want to or not.

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    The problem is that the unions bargain for all workers regardless of whether the worker in question has paid his union dues or not. In other words, if a higher hourly wage is negotiated between management and a union, all workers benefit, not just those who are paying union dues to negotiate for them. I don't know what the answer is, but I also believe that if a worker doesn't want to pay the union dues he should be allowed not to pay them. But, does he have to suffer the penalty to not take advantage of the higher wage that is usually negotiated for ALL workers simply because he isn't a member of the union?

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by darden View Post
    how can you lay on the blame on corporations, though? they're just supporting the consumer demand to pay $.10 for a product made in China rather than $10 for the same product made down the road.

    I'm a big supporter of unions in general, but definitely in favor of this particular ruling. if someone wants to eschew union donations and bargain for raises/perks on their own rather than collectively, they should have that right; let the unions prove their worth rather than being supported whether the workers want to or not.
    When corporations apply coercion to manufacturers, when they automatically hand out packets explaining how to get government benefits, when other corporations keep jobs here and accept a lower profit margin, then yes, I can blame corporations.

    Yes, there have been union abuses, but corporations are all too eager to suck money from the taxpayers and anyone else they can. And it's no deal for the customers to pay less for an item when it results in the government having to borrow to cover the support the corporations are forcing the government to pay.

    And if a worker doesn't want to be represented by the union then he should accept getting a lower wage and no benefits.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Clearly the answer is to stop the immigration.
    No, the answer is to require corporations to behave as good citizens, since they want to be considered people. Bill them for the government support they require their workers to rely on, penalize them for moving jobs overseas, fine them as a percentage of annual revenues for hiring illegals, forbid any subsidies from the taxpayers -- in other words, insist that they act as civilized grown-ups instead of as naughty thieving delinquents.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by smokeshadow View Post
    The problem is that the unions bargain for all workers regardless of whether the worker in question has paid his union dues or not.
    In addition to bargaining for general benefits, unions offer representation for specific employees in matters relating to performance challenges or other disputes with management. Unions are unlikely to champion a specific case involving a non-member.

  31. #31

    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Unions also extort exorbitant dues and split the ill-gotten gains with the Democrat candidates to promote their evil agenda: abortions by the tens of millions, floods of immigrants to suppress non-union wages, ever higher taxes, ever increasing regulations against employers.
    Worse, public sector unions use the dues extractions, to bribe democrat politicians to impose crippling burdens on the taxpayers.
    Last edited by Benvolio; July 4th, 2014 at 04:01 PM.

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Unions also extort exorbitant dues and split the ill-gotten gains with the Democrat candidates to promote their evil agenda: abortions by the tens of millions, floods of immigrants to suppress non-union wages, ever higher taxes, ever increasing regulations against employers.
    Worse, public sector unions use the dues extractions, to bribe democrat politicians to impose crippling burdens on the taxpayers.
    You love your propaganda, but you don't know the law. Unions cannot spend any money for political purposes without the written authorization of the i.e the donors and fee-payers.

    And a number of states have laws preventing unions from endorsing or campaigning Candidates.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  33. #33

    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    You love your propaganda, but you don't know the law. Unions cannot spend any money for political purposes without the written authorization of the i.e the donors and fee-payers.

    And a number of states have laws preventing unions from endorsing or campaigning Candidates.
    If you think unions don't find ways to work around the law, you're incredibly naive.

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    Re: Supreme Court on a rampage.....may strike Public sector unions right to represent workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    If you think unions don't find ways to work around the law, you're incredibly naive.
    just another apology for the massacre the 1% has brought on the world. trying to say theyre just as bad as you are, tisk tisk.
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