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  1. #101

    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    But they have denied when a state said yes.
    Exactly. The higher up you go, the stricter the requirements for standing become.

  2. #102
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    But they have denied when a state said yes.
    So it's a one-way gate, or something like that.

    (I've been listening to John Oliver, so my brain is warped.)

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  3. #103
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    So it's a one-way gate, or something like that.

    (I've been listening to John Oliver, so my brain is warped.)
    We don't know until the situation arises, but such a party would probably be enjoined by state court to stop representing the state, and such a lawyer for such a party would not be engaging in ethical representation. Here's the rub. Clerks represent their counties, but issue licenses in the name of the state, and any ruling would apply statewide. That isn't exactly state representation; it's like a reverse of ex relatione.
    Last edited by Alnitak; June 10th, 2014 at 02:52 AM.

  4. #104
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    We don't know until the situation arises, but such a party would probably be enjoined by state court to stop representing the state, and such a lawyer for such a party would not be engaging in ethical representation. Here's the rub. Clerks represent their counties, but issue licenses in the name of the state, and any ruling would apply statewide. That isn't exactly state representation; it's like a reverse of ex relatione.
    So even if a federal court granted standing, the state could jerk it away? That kind of makes it a foregone conclusion that if a state speaks on standing, the feds are likely to follow. If a state says nothing, the federal court exercises its own judgment.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    So even if a federal court granted standing, the state could jerk it away? That kind of makes it a foregone conclusion that if a state speaks on standing, the feds are likely to follow. If a state says nothing, the federal court exercises its own judgment.
    Well no, because a positive commandment, do, is not guaranteed to be received in federal court, but a negative commandment, do not, cannot be undone by federal court, unless a federal writ of mandamus overrules the state.
    Last edited by Alnitak; June 10th, 2014 at 04:38 PM.

  6. #106
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    I'm hoping she'll get smacked down and hard.
    As it is, she is asking not only to intervene but put a stay on the ruling, something that ticks me off.
    What gives her the right to decide that her beliefs trump that of all the other clerks?

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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    She would probably reply that the other clerks should be able to have status as well in favor of the decision (filing opposition to her specific bigot motion).

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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    We'll know soon enough.. I hope she gets told no and that's the end of it.

  9. #109
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    I'm hoping she'll get smacked down and hard.
    As it is, she is asking not only to intervene but put a stay on the ruling, something that ticks me off.
    What gives her the right to decide that her beliefs trump that of all the other clerks?
    But it's not her beliefs -- she just wants clarification!


    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  10. #110
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    But it's not her beliefs -- she just wants clarification!

    I'd have to find the article but she does in fact state she feels it's against her beliefs, which is STUPID to admit in a brief like that.

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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    I'd have to find the article but she does in fact state she feels it's against her beliefs, which is STUPID to admit in a brief like that.
    I can hear the judge already:

    "...as personal beliefs have no legal import...."

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  12. #112
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    The plantiffs have been given the end of the week to respond.

  13. #113

    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Regardless the ruling becomes final on June 19th/20th so it will leave no time for an appeal to the 3rd Circuit when Jones rules against her.

  14. #114
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    The plantiffs have been given the end of the week to respond.
    That that any amount of time is going to make a difference: they have no arguments, period.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  15. #115

    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    That that any amount of time is going to make a difference: they have no arguments, period.
    Do you mean the plaintiffs in Whitewood or the ones in this attempt to intervene?

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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    Do you mean the plaintiffs in Whitewood or the ones in this attempt to intervene?
    The ones in this case. We should know by early next week if he grants the request.

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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    Do you mean the plaintiffs in Whitewood or the ones in this attempt to intervene?
    I must have been fuzzy in the head -- I meant the people trying to defend marriage inequality.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  18. #118
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    No word yet on what Judge Jones will do but today was the deadline for the plantiffs to respond.

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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    No word yet on what Judge Jones will do but today was the deadline for the plantiffs to respond.
    Intervention DENIED by Judge Jones

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/230269222/1-13-cv-01861-150

  20. #120
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Santai-Gaffney ....argues that she must intervene because, in the wake of our decision and the Governor's decision not to appeal, the state of Marriage Laws and the scope of her duties have become unclear. Nothing could be further from the truth.
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/230269222/1-13-cv-01861-150

    Bitch got righteously slapped.

  21. #121
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Santai-Gaffney ....argues that she must intervene because, in the wake of our decision and the Governor's decision not to appeal, the state of Marriage Laws and the scope of her duties have become unclear. Nothing could be further from the truth.
    That's the essence of it, all right.

    BURN!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  22. #122
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    This Court respects Santai-Gaffney's evidently deep personal disagreement with our decision to strike down Marriage Laws. That said, we lament that she has used her office as a platform to file the Motion we dispose of today. To repeat - there is nothing remotely ambiguous about how Santai-Gaffney must perform her duties relative to issuing marriage licenses. For her to represent otherwise is wholly disingenuous. At bottom, we have a contrived legal argument by a private citizen who seeks to accomplish what the shief executive of the commonwealth, in his wisdom, has declined to do.
    Bite it Santai-Gafney.

  23. #123
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    ^
    Coulda done without the "in his wisdom" phrase.


    I'd say she's lucky the judge didn't declare she'd wasted the court's time and fined her.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  24. #124
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Glad to see Santai-Gafney get the rejection she deserved.
    If she doesn't want to do her job, she can resign.

  25. #125
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Bite it Santai-Gafney.
    Obviously....it should read 'chief'....I was racing ahead of myself between firing off letters at work....

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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    She's going to appeal to the 3rd circuit but I can't see where they give her the time of day.

  27. #127
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    She's going to appeal to the 3rd circuit but I can't see where they give her the time of day.
    After that judicial slap-down -- just short of holding her in contempt, it looks like to me -- she's crazy to appeal. I hope the next judge responds with "What part of 'you got nuthin'!' don't you understand?"

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  28. #128
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    After that judicial slap-down -- just short of holding her in contempt, it looks like to me -- she's crazy to appeal. I hope the next judge responds with "What part of 'you got nuthin'!' don't you understand?"
    She's being propped up by NOM and ADF who are telling her otherwise. Still no pity for her. You can't get made a fool out of it you don't step up.

  29. #129
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    She's being propped up by NOM and ADF who are telling her otherwise. Still no pity for her. You can't get made a fool out of it you don't step up.
    The judge should slap them with contempt of court, too -- say, a $50k fine....

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  30. #130
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    It's up to the 3rd circuit now. I can't see them even giving her a second thought.

  31. #131
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    After that judicial slap-down -- just short of holding her in contempt, it looks like to me -- she's crazy to appeal. I hope the next judge responds with "What part of 'you got nuthin'!' don't you understand?"
    The parties have been ordered by the court of appeals to brief a panel of judges on summary dismissal.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/230435442/14-3048-54697

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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    The parties have been ordered by the court of appeals to brief a panel of judges on summary dismissal.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/230435442/14-3048-54697
    Will have to see how it goes but I'm not worried about this at all.

  33. #133

    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    ^^^The fact that they're going for summary dismissal first is a great sign.

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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    The parties have been ordered by the court of appeals to brief a panel of judges on summary dismissal.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/230435442/14-3048-54697
    Sounds like the judge is really saying "Give me one good reason I shouldn't just end this right now".

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    It's up the 3rd circuit now. If they tell the bigoted clerk she has no standing, then it's over. Marriage equality will be the law of the land in the Keystone State.

  36. #136

    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    It's up the 3rd circuit now. If they tell the bigoted clerk she has no standing, then it's over. Marriage equality will be the law of the land in the Keystone State.
    It already is, and even if they do grant her standing I don't see them allowing her to stay the ruling.

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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    It already is, and even if they do grant her standing I don't see them allowing her to stay the ruling.
    The fact she issued licences doesn't help her either. She's like the bigoted clerk in California who was told no.

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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/07/pl...-pennsylvania/
    She won't give up, and of course, the ADF is backing her all the way.

  39. #139
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    The fact she issued licences doesn't help her either. She's like the bigoted clerk in California who was told no.
    Dronenburg? He is also just incompetent: read this.

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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Dronenburg? He is also just incompetent: read this.
    Not a surprise in the least that a clerk who would fall for ADF would be a fool in other areas.
    P.S. you are being request on JMG in the PA thread, you are a hot item over there

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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    Not a surprise in the least that a clerk who would fall for ADF would be a fool in other areas.
    P.S. you are being request on JMG in the PA thread, you are a hot item over there
    Maybe I should flash my booty

  42. #142
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    Re: ACLU Announces Decision Time for Pennsylvania Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Maybe I should flash my booty
    If they are as good as your abs, go for it.
    On a different note, I hope this bigot gets smacked down and HARD.

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