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  1. #1

    Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Pope Francis, in a speech to the UN General Secretary and heads of UN agencies, called for the legitimate redistribution of wealth to raise the living standards of the poor. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5294629.html

    This will drive the Christian fundamentalist Republicans crazy. They want politicians to listen to the Church on abortion and contraception. Just like the Church's opposition to capital punishment, however, the Republicans will ignore the Church on this one.

    Got to love Pope Francis.

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Evangelicals never were friends with Catholics, but they begrudgingly do it to fight liberal social issues. I'm not sure what economic issues have to do with religion though except when it becomes an issue of social justice, but I never thought of Catholicism as being right or left economically anyway.
    Last edited by Alnitak; May 9th, 2014 at 08:48 AM.

  3. #3

    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    The Catholic Church is guided by Leo XIII's Rerum Novarum which is some shockingly left of center stuff--economically. Also this Pope rocks, but I must admit, I've liked all three Popes of my lifetime.
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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by IamNoah View Post
    The Catholic Church is guided by Leo XIII's Rerum Novarum which is some shockingly left of center stuff--economically. Also this Pope rocks, but I must admit, I've liked all three Popes of my lifetime.
    What was in the Rerum Novarum?

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Francis is following the teachings of Jesus---not the anti-christ fundamentalists interpretations on the right---which as the bible says--the anti-christ will come in the form of christ.

  6. #6

    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    What was in the Rerum Novarum?
    It was an encyclical issued by Pope Leo at the end of the 19th Century condemning the excesses of capitalism, which the Pope said lead to social injustice visited on the working classes. It strongly supported and encouraged the formation of unions and collective bargaining. It was a radical document.

    The labor movement in the United States in its most formative years, was dominated by Catholic and Jewish workers, both religions with very similar views on the rights of labor. Three of the first four presidents of the AFL-CIO (the national labor federation in the US) were Bronx, NY born Irish Catholics.

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    It was an encyclical issued by Pope Leo at the end of the 19th Century condemning the excesses of capitalism, which the Pope said lead to social injustice visited on the working classes. It strongly supported and encouraged the formation of unions and collective bargaining. It was a radical document.

    The labor movement in the United States in its most formative years, was dominated by Catholic and Jewish workers, both religions with very similar views on the rights of labor. Three of the first four presidents of the AFL-CIO (the national labor federation in the US) were Bronx, NY born Irish Catholics.
    Does the Church actually adopt official positions on economic issues?

    The Bible, at least as far as the OT as I am aware, says quite a bit about the rights of workers, particularly there is a mitzvah against "cheating" one's employees (Deut. 24) which is a pretty open ended statement.

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Rerum Novarum, even today has resonance:

    "Let the working man and the employer make free agreements, and in particular let them agree freely as to the wages; nevertheless, there underlies a dictate of natural justice more imperious and ancient than any bargain between man and man, namely, that wages ought not to be insufficient to support a frugal and well-behaved wage-earner. If through necessity or fear of a worse evil the workman accept harder conditions because an employer or contractor will afford him no better, he is made the victim of force and injustice."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rerum_Novarum [quoting encyclical]

  9. #9

    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Does that mean he'll be opening the Vatican banks anytime soon ?
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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by borg69unimatrix View Post
    Does that mean he'll be opening the Vatican banks anytime soon ?
    You know, that 1960s film The Shoes of the Fisherman was so prophetic in many ways. It practically predicted everything that is Pope Francis, i.e. he sneaks out to meet the people, extremely humble, but except at the end, (okay I don't want to spoil it too much). Go see the film. It is a very good liberal vision of what the Church should be like and probably will be in the future.

  11. #11

    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    You know, that 1960s film The Shoes of the Fisherman was so prophetic in many ways. It practically predicted everything that is Pope Francis, i.e. he sneaks out to meet the people, extremely humble, but except at the end, (okay I don't want to spoil it too much). Go see the film. It is a very good liberal vision of what the Church should be like and probably will be in the future.
    I just find it kind of ironic, predictable, and a little disgusting that he'd suggest everyone ELSE open their pockets... but don't stop that collection plate going his way!

    I wonder how he'd feel if they started taxing churches.
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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    ^ In fairness, the wealth of the church is not in the banks....it is tied up in cultural wealth of immeasurable value.

    Like the Queen...the RCC has no way of monetizing this.

    The reality is that the RCC is nowhere nearly as liquid as it may appear to the casual observer.

    And in fairness....the amount of charitable work they finance around the globe from their capital is a demonstration of the redistribution of wealth.

    Not that they deserve a free pass.

    But I'm loving my Pope Frank.

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Catholic Church denied 655 year old debt: http://www.justusboys.com/forum/thre...=1#post8624267

    Interesting.

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Also known as "The United Order" in Mormon Theology (look it up).

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by borg69unimatrix View Post
    I just find it kind of ironic, predictable, and a little disgusting that he'd suggest everyone ELSE open their pockets... but don't stop that collection plate going his way!

    I wonder how he'd feel if they started taxing churches.
    I don't think he's talking about "everyone else". When 2% of the world holds 60% of the wealth, something is wrong.
    Also, in the U.S., now that the SCOTUS has pretty much thrown out the separation of church and state, churches SHOULD be taxed. Organized religion has created the bulk of the discord over social issues, which will never be resolved because they involve personal belief systems. Politicians simply use them as wedge issues to rally their respective voter bases. Essentially, social issues have nothing to do with conducting the business of the nation. It's like the tea party banging their drum on the Constitution until it protects someone or something they hate. People do the same thing with the Bible and that brand of hypocrisy will not stand.

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Evangelicals never were friends with Catholics, but they begrudgingly do it to fight liberal social issues. I'm not sure what economic issues have to do with religion though except when it becomes an issue of social justice, but I never thought of Catholicism as being right or left economically anyway.
    Catholicism is pro-free-market but very, very cautious about capitalism. That's a mix that doesn't sit well with many.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Does the Church actually adopt official positions on economic issues?
    In broad terms only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    The Bible, at least as far as the OT as I am aware, says quite a bit about the rights of workers, particularly there is a mitzvah against "cheating" one's employees (Deut. 24) which is a pretty open ended statement.
    There is a theme about paying a worker his due in both Testaments.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by borg69unimatrix View Post
    Does that mean he'll be opening the Vatican banks anytime soon ?
    And do what with the depositors' money?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  19. #19

    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    The Popes cause more poverty and suffering than any other individuals on earth. This Pope continues the prohibition against contraceptives by poor people, ensuring that the next generation in poor Catholic countries will be larger and more poor than the last. The Pope, with the snap of his fingers, could end the prohibition and do more to alleviate poverty than any person on earth. Alas, the Catholic church cannot tell right from wrong. It has no moral compass.

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The Popes cause more poverty and suffering than any other individuals on earth. This Pope continues the prohibition against contraceptives by poor people, ensuring that the next generation in poor Catholic countries will be larger and more poor than the last. The Pope, with the snap of his fingers, could end the prohibition and do more to alleviate poverty than any person on earth. Alas, the Catholic church cannot tell right from wrong. It has no moral compass.
    Agreed, word for word. A rare thing I think.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  21. #21

    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The Popes cause more poverty and suffering than any other individuals on earth. This Pope continues the prohibition against contraceptives by poor people, ensuring that the next generation in poor Catholic countries will be larger and more poor than the last. The Pope, with the snap of his fingers, could end the prohibition and do more to alleviate poverty than any person on earth. Alas, the Catholic church cannot tell right from wrong. It has no moral compass.
    Why is that some of the richest, most educated, least impoverished countries in the world are overwhelming Catholic countries? Why are the richest states in the US predominately Catholic, while the poorest are predominately Protestant?

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The Popes cause more poverty and suffering than any other individuals on earth. This Pope continues the prohibition against contraceptives by poor people, ensuring that the next generation in poor Catholic countries will be larger and more poor than the last. The Pope, with the snap of his fingers, could end the prohibition and do more to alleviate poverty than any person on earth. Alas, the Catholic church cannot tell right from wrong. It has no moral compass.
    Agreed until the last two lines. Rome has a moral compass, anchored in the fourth century B.C. with Aristotle, then picking and choosing from the declarations of councils and popes, and then picking and choosing from the Bible.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    Why is that some of the richest, most educated, least impoverished countries in the world are overwhelming Catholic countries? Why are the richest states in the US predominately Catholic, while the poorest are predominately Protestant?
    But the countries that are Catholic and rich also are the ones that frustrate the Vatican because they consistently ignore Rome on many issues.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  24. #24

    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    But the countries that are Catholic and rich also are the ones that frustrate the Vatican because they consistently ignore Rome on many issues.
    The Catholic tradition cannot be boiled down to just opposition to birth control. It also has an extremely strong communitarian tradition that encourages a commitment to social justice. It also obviously has a tradition that tolerates adherents who ignore Rome on many issues, especially birth control.

    Incidentally, take a look at those states that have enacted same sex marriage. Almost all are the most heavily Catholic states, like New York, Maryland and states in New England. New Jersey, too.
    Last edited by palemale; May 16th, 2014 at 06:42 PM.

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    COMMUNITARIAN!!!!!! I'm stealing that.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    COMMUNITARIAN!!!!!! I'm stealing that.
    Okay, who knows the German word for that? There's actually a theological German word that translates as "communitarian".

    At any rate, it's evident that countries which follow Rome religiously don't do well, while those which use good sense to deviate do. So there's both value --the social justice and communitarian aspect -- and detriment -- the "churn out more poor people" aspect -- in Roman tradition.

    They'd do far better to throw out Aristotle and listen more to Jesus, though.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Rome was a real democracy in the 4th century bc

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Rome was a real democracy in the 4th century bc
    A bit of an odd one to us -- we don't have a provision for electing a dictator.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    To claim to follow Christ, but ignore the suffering of billions in the face of unconscionable excess on the part of 1% of the US population, and a miniscule portion of the world's, is incompatible. Perhaps the Church has found the (celibate) balls that our politicians lack. Tax the rich to provide for all. They won't miss it, and many of the rest of us can't live without it. Historically, the inequality has been self-limiting. Eventually, the 99.9% of the rest will fix the problem. But the Church, and all religious organizations can lead the way.

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    Re: Pope Calls for Redistribution of Wealth to Deal With Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by cocksucker4use View Post
    To claim to follow Christ, but ignore the suffering of billions in the face of unconscionable excess on the part of 1% of the US population, and a miniscule portion of the world's, is incompatible. Perhaps the Church has found the (celibate) balls that our politicians lack. Tax the rich to provide for all. They won't miss it, and many of the rest of us can't live without it. Historically, the inequality has been self-limiting. Eventually, the 99.9% of the rest will fix the problem. But the Church, and all religious organizations can lead the way.
    One simple step: impose a 0.1% tax on all transactions between financial institutions. I saw an estimate that the total is at least a third of US GDP, which would be about $8tn.... Okay, maybe the percentage should be higher; that would only be $8bn in revenue.

    Then a 5% surtax on all incomes over $1mn, the revenue to be dedicated to infrastructure.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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