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  1. #51
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by JackinSea View Post
    All I can think of is that the AG must be covering himself in case he decides to run for another office later; however, I think he's naïve if he thinks that defending the law won't hide the fact that he's officially "against" it.
    Actually he's personally for it, but officially defending the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    The first deputy to arrive at the courthouse refused to issue licenses, citing the absence of the county clerk to give permission, and then used the lame excuse of wanting the attorney general's opinion. Note that Carroll County has two seats, and the main clerk's office is in Berryville, so the first one was obviously a lie. Anyway, I'm not surprised at all. We have seen such excuses before. Police then arrived to "disperse" the crowd. The second deputy, Jane Osborne, then arrived and happily issued licenses.

    http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...14/05/10/87093
    Liberty magazine once had an excellent report on how police were stymied in a situation just like this, where people had gathered due to a court ruling some wanted to take advantage of. Someone in the group had printed out copies of the First Amendment with the words protecting the right to peaceably assemble highlighted, in the form of a "gathering permit". Cops conferred, and apparently decided none of them was willing to be the one named in a lawsuit....

    It just reminds me that our police are sorely lacking in training essential for understanding their jobs: the rights of citizens. No officer who understands his job would ever make an attempt to "disperse" a peaceful crowd.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  2. #52
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    This whole thing, so far, has been during a weekend. Aren't most county offices closed all weekend anyway?
    We are just speculating on what they will do.

    Faulkner County has announced it will not issue licenses citing the clerk's belief that circuit judges cannot enjoin the whole state, which is not true.

    I expect three things to happen, 1) some offices will gladly issue licenses, 2) some counties will cite excuses, and 3) some will just close. Now to find out in what proportions. Some counties with anti-gay clerks and attorneys will try to slyly manufacture the "confusion" in order to substantiate a stay in a sort of I-told-you-so if you will.

    Of course if a stay is granted then that's that obviously.
    Last edited by Alnitak; May 11th, 2014 at 11:10 PM.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    I always thought he was from somewhere in southwest Missouri? Maybe around Butler or Nevada (nuh-VAY-dah) or something?

    You are right. I remember now that he is from mizzoorah.

    don't rightly know why I thought he was from Arkanzazz.

    Is there anyone on JUB from AK? It would be interesting to have their take on the reaction in the state to this crack in the Bible Belt opposition to legalizing sodomitical marriage.

  4. #54
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Just a friendly reminder: AK = Alaska and AR = Arkansas.

  5. #55

    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Video from the Saturday confrontation:

    http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog...day-night-line

    I'm so glad that the day was able to end on a happy note for the couples waiting in line.

  6. #56
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Faulkner County has announced it will not issue licenses citing the clerk's belief that circuit judges cannot enjoin the whole state, which is not true.
    I think that varies between states. As I understand the system in Oregon, the clerk would be correct; a circuit ruling is binding only on that circuit. An appeals court ruling, however, I think is binding on the whole state regardless of which district it came from. The basic difference is that circuit courts are trial courts, not appellate courts (though certain cases from municipal and justice courts can be appealed to a circuit, IIRC).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  7. #57
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I think that varies between states. As I understand the system in Oregon, the clerk would be correct; a circuit ruling is binding only on that circuit. An appeals court ruling, however, I think is binding on the whole state regardless of which district it came from. The basic difference is that circuit courts are trial courts, not appellate courts (though certain cases from municipal and justice courts can be appealed to a circuit, IIRC).
    Several counties were sued in Pulaski County Circuit Court, which has general jurisdiction. If circuit courts in Oregon have diversity jurisdiction, then they can enjoin a whole state too, or a combination of the counties. That is usually the case. Remember Walker's ruling applied to the whole state of California because he enjoined state officers, even though his jurisdiction was in northern California. Jacobson's ruling applied throughout New Jersey, and so on. District courts are the courts of limited jurisdiction in Arkansas. Because the counties are all similarly situated, i.e. refusing licenses, and because the State of Arkansas and her officers are named defendants, Piazza's ruling applies statewide.
    Last edited by Alnitak; May 12th, 2014 at 12:23 PM.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    Video from the Saturday confrontation:

    http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog...day-night-line

    I'm so glad that the day was able to end on a happy note for the couples waiting in line.
    Most counties are dragging their feet hoping for a quick stay from the AR Supreme Court. I am little surprised.

    The respondents have until noon tomorrow to reply to the state's request for a stay. There is no indication what the court will do.

    Because of the dynamic situation, and variety of sources both reliable and unreliable, it is impossible to give an accurate run down on the counties currently issuing licenses. However, Little Rock is definitely issuing them.

  9. #59

    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Washington County is issuing licenses as well. Carroll County stopped earlier today due to a threat from an attorney (seriously?!). I've heard the Supreme Court in AR typically releases decisions on Thursday, but they may make an exception with this issue.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    ThinkProgress reports on Twitter that the current issuing counties are Pulaski, Washington, Marion, and Saline, so that's four out of 75. Pathetic.

  11. #61

    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    ThinkProgress reports on Twitter that the current issuing counties are Pulaski, Washington, Marion, and Saline, so that's four out of 75. Pathetic.
    It's still better then it being just 2 as I initially thought.

    Apparently in Carroll County the attorney in question claimed that a law banning same-sex marriage was still on the books, which is baseless since both the statute and constitutional bans were shot down.

    In Little Rock there was only 1 protester demonstrating today (amazing how quickly things have changed since there were tons in 2004 and even 2008 with California), and a reporter was apparently removed from a courthouse for simply questioning why they weren't issuing licenses. It's truly remnicent of the civil rights struggle now!

  12. #62
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Several counties were sued in Pulaski County Circuit Court, which has general jurisdiction. If circuit courts in Oregon have diversity jurisdiction, then they can enjoin a whole state too, or a combination of the counties. That is usually the case. Remember Walker's ruling applied to the whole state of California because he enjoined state officers, even though his jurisdiction was in northern California. Jacobson's ruling applied throughout New Jersey, and so on. District courts are the courts of limited jurisdiction in Arkansas. Because the counties are all similarly situated, i.e. refusing licenses, and because the State of Arkansas and her officers are named defendants, Piazza's ruling applies statewide.
    Ah -- the last especially makes sense.



    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  13. #63
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Most counties are dragging their feet hoping for a quick stay from the AR Supreme Court. I am little surprised.

    The respondents have until noon tomorrow to reply to the state's request for a stay. There is no indication what the court will do.

    Because of the dynamic situation, and variety of sources both reliable and unreliable, it is impossible to give an accurate run down on the counties currently issuing licenses. However, Little Rock is definitely issuing them.
    By dragging their feet, aren't they just providing fuel for yet another suit? That seems tactically, or even strategically, foolish.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  14. #64
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    In Little Rock ... a reporter was apparently removed from a courthouse for simply questioning why they weren't issuing licenses. It's truly remnicent of the civil rights struggle now!
    There's an invitation to a first amendment suit!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  15. #65
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    Apparently in Carroll County the attorney in question claimed that a law banning same-sex marriage was still on the books, which is baseless since both the statute and constitutional bans were shot down.
    It's an unrelated law that just fines clerks for issuing illegal licenses. Yes it's totally bogus.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    They're stalling for a stay.

  17. #67
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by JackinSea View Post
    They're stalling for a stay.
    They should be held in contempt of court, fined $1k and thrown in jail for three days.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  18. #68
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by JackinSea View Post
    They're stalling for a stay.
    Yeah, the same thing happened in Utah, and when recalcitrant counties didn't get a stay they caved. I'm crossing my fingers.

  19. #69
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Great digest on the latest analyses: http://purpleunions.com/blog/2014/05...medium=twitter





    Also, the state government is so far honoring the marriages.

    Ark. health department allows same-sex couples on birth certificates

  20. #70
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Marion and Saline have stopped issuing licenses, saying they will wait for word from the AR Supreme Court.

    That leaves Pulaski and Washington, the first and third largest counties in the state.

    http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2014/05/t...e-sex-couples/

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    ^
    The judge should hit them with contempt of court.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  22. #72
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    The latest count on licenses is 400 even.

    Pulaski County has issued 243 licenses, Washington County 122, Carroll 28, Saline six and Marion one.

    Lawyers: Don't suspend gay marriage ruling
    We should know by Thursday what the AR Supreme Court intends to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    ^
    The judge should hit them with contempt of court.
    They won't get away with it so easily if the AR Supreme Court does not issue a stay.

  23. #73
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    The arc of history still bends toward justice.

    The good news is that I don't think there will ever be another California clusterfuck.

    It is now only about time.

  24. #74
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Arkansas Supreme Court

    Request for a stay is DENIED



    The Arkansas Supreme Court has rejected the state attorney general’s request for a stay of a judge’s ruling that overturned Arkansas’ constitutional ban on gay marriage.

    Arkansas Supreme Court won’t stay same-sex marriage ruling

    Read the opinion HERE: http://ww2.lgbtqnation.com/assets/20...uling-0514.pdf

    The opinion is based on technicalities, but I'll take it. That means marriages will continue for at least a few days.
    Last edited by Alnitak; May 14th, 2014 at 03:56 PM.

  25. #75
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Pulaski County (one of the only two counties in AR still issuing gay marriage licenses) has announced that it will stop doing so, in the wake of the Arkansas Supreme Court's action.

    The only other county in Arkansas still issuing licenses, Washington County, has not yet announced what it will do.

    Looks like we're going to have to wait on SCOTUS. Very frustrating.




    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/arkan...y-gay-marriage

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    So it's legal to issue marriage licenses, but clerks can be fined for doing so to same-sex couples....




    Even the cat is embarrassed.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  27. #77
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Pulaski County (one of the only two counties in AR still issuing gay marriage licenses) has announced that it will stop doing so, in the wake of the Arkansas Supreme Court's action.

    The only other county in Arkansas still issuing licenses, Washington County, has not yet announced what it will do.

    Looks like we're going to have to wait on SCOTUS. Very frustrating.




    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/arkan...y-gay-marriage
    If the Arkansas Supreme Court maintains the part of Piazza's ruling that cites Arkansas' Declaration of Rights, then the ruling will not be appealable to the US Supreme Court.

  28. #78
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    So it's legal to issue marriage licenses, but clerks can be fined for doing so to same-sex couples....

    Even the cat is embarrassed.
    It's a minor technicality that would be ignored in a liberal state.

    Piazza no doubt will issue an amended order and injunction soon.

    The Arkansas saga will go on for a while...

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    If the Arkansas Supreme Court maintains the part of Piazza's ruling that cites Arkansas' Declaration of Rights, then the ruling will not be appealable to the US Supreme Court.
    I was wondering about that. I almost rather it goes that way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    It's a minor technicality that would be ignored in a liberal state.

    Piazza no doubt will issue an amended order and injunction soon.

    The Arkansas saga will go on for a while...
    I should hope it wouldn't be ignored anywhere -- better to tidy up all the loose ends.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  30. #80
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post

    I should hope it wouldn't be ignored anywhere -- better to tidy up all the loose ends.
    It is unenforceable in my book to have a law that operates only by color of law.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    If the Arkansas Supreme Court maintains the part of Piazza's ruling that cites Arkansas' Declaration of Rights, then the ruling will not be appealable to the US Supreme Court.
    No, but if SCOTUS invalidates ALL state constitutional amendments banning gay marriage (as they should have done in Windsor), then nothing Arkansas does will matter. And that is likely to happen before Arkansas allows gay marriage through its own legal system.

    Nothing is going to happen anywhere in the USA until SCOTUS rules.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    No, but if SCOTUS invalidates ALL state constitutional amendments banning gay marriage (as they should have done in Windsor), then nothing Arkansas does will matter. And that is likely to happen before Arkansas allows gay marriage through its own legal system.

    Nothing is going to happen anywhere in the USA until SCOTUS rules.
    It would be nice to say Arkansas was the only Southern state to do it on its own accord, and the character of its judiciary does reflect well on the state.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    ^ Yes, it would be nice to say that.

    But, they haven't done that, have they?

  34. #84
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    ^ Yes, it would be nice to say that.

    But, they haven't done that, have they?
    I think the AR Supreme Court will affirm Piazza's ruling. It affirmed his adoption ruling, so going on that there is good reason to think so.

  35. #85

    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    It sounds like this technicality is going to be resolved very quickly:


    Said Jack Wagoner, attorney for the plaintiffs:

    We'll fix that tomorrow and be back here again.... How can order find something unconstitutional but not affect a statute that would require the clerks to do something unconstitutional?
    http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog...es-to-same-sex
    Last edited by scream4ever; May 15th, 2014 at 12:05 AM. Reason: addition

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    ^^^

    That's basically what I said in post 80. It will basically be a patch up job like you would do to drywall.

  37. #87
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Here we go again...

    Ark. judge says he will expand ruling, strike down ban on gay marriage licenses

    Pulaski County Circuit Judge Chris Piazza told attorneys in a letter that he’ll issue an order Thursday declaring the law banning same-sex marriage licenses as unconstitutional.
    Piazza's statement:

    Dear Counsel:
    Pursuant to Rule 60 of the Arkansas Rules of Civil Procedure, I am
    notifying you of a correction of clerical errors in the May t'fi,20l4 "Order Summary Judgment in Favor of the Plaintiffs and Finding Act 144 of 1997 and Amendment 83 Unconstitutional," and notifying you that an order will be filed today on May 15,2014 with the declaration that Act 146 of 1997 (A.C.A. 9-11-208) is unconstitutional and granting the Plaintiffs request for injunctive relief."

    https://www.facebook.com/nwaequality...52149775052993
    Last edited by Alnitak; May 15th, 2014 at 11:46 AM.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Marriages resume!

    The Pulaski County clerk says he’ll immediately resume issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples after a judge struck down a law that barred the practice.

    Pulaski County Clerk Larry Crane says that his office will issue marriage licenses again to same-sex couples immediately Thursday after receiving Judge Chris Piazza’s order. Piazza ruled that the law barring county clerks from issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples is unconstitutional.
    Ark. judge strikes down all state laws banning same-sex marriage

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    It is unenforceable in my book to have a law that operates only by color of law.
    I don't follow your response. ???

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    No, but if SCOTUS invalidates ALL state constitutional amendments banning gay marriage (as they should have done in Windsor), then nothing Arkansas does will matter. And that is likely to happen before Arkansas allows gay marriage through its own legal system.

    Nothing is going to happen anywhere in the USA until SCOTUS rules.
    I can easily see this court deciding to let the matter "mature" another year, or even wait for the religious discrimination suit to make its way to them. With that issue in hand, it would give cover to some more conservative judges to say they're defending religious liberty and not have to address whether they think gays are second-class citizens.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    ^^^

    That's basically what I said in post 80. It will basically be a patch up job like you would do to drywall.
    Now that I've stopped laughing and busting my gut....

    I've hung enough drywall, both wall and ceiling, for that to strike me as hilarious. If we're going to use a drywall analogy, I'd compare it to a moment on a certain job when we were slapping up sheets in quick succession, and then behind us came a guy doing wiring, and stopped us and asked, "Where's the junction box?" In our rush, we'd failed to notice a stud with an attached junction box, where either an outlet or a light switch was meant to go, and covered it up. So we had to go back and find it, and cut a hole so the electrical guy could hook up circuits.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Health benefits are already beginning to flow.


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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    ^ If there's anything Republicans hate more than Americans getting health insurance, it's gay Americans getting health insurance.

  44. #94
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    You are right. I remember now that he is from mizzoorah.

    don't rightly know why I thought he was from Arkanzazz.

    Is there anyone on JUB from AK? It would be interesting to have their take on the reaction in the state to this crack in the Bible Belt opposition to legalizing sodomitical marriage.
    Your mock of the name and then the gaff using Alaska's postal abbreviation really backfired and exposed the fallacy of the East Coast elitism. Shame on you.

    I am from Arkansas, having left in 2006 to move West. I go back about once per year to see family.

    I'm not really a watcher of the state any longer, but I know the complexion when I lived there. A few pundits and such do make statements similar to the defunct Moral Majority, but the state is a bit more Libertarian than that really. Moral proclamations notwithstanding, there is an equally strong live-and-let-live mentality.

    As other posters here have noted, it doesn't have the radical Tea Party strain that other states have fostered. The widespread poverty of the state in times past probably is a significant factor in softening any would-be anti-government sentiments. Enough people, including farmers, have benefitted from the government dole that the people know better than to bite the hand that literally feeds them.

    That said, the state is wealthier now that Wal-Mart, ABF, Tyson, and a few other companies have improved the average wage, if but regionally in the northwest sector.

    Despite elections and various issues decided one way or another, the state remains fairly split between Democrat and Republican in similar numbers.

    Lazy thinkers elsewhere fall into the trap of thinking Arkansas is still a rancorous state with bitter racism as was seen in the Central High Crisis. That was five decades ago and the people have moved on. Interracial dating and marriage is now common, if statistically the exception. It's not a big Kumbayah-fest, but it's not bitter division either.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; May 16th, 2014 at 04:44 AM.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    I Hang my head in Shame.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Your mock of the name and then the gaff using Alaska's postal abbreviation really backfired and exposed the fallacy of the East Coast elitism. Shame on you.
    Lazy thinkers elsewhere fall into the trap of thinking Arkansas is still a rancorous state with bitter racism as was seen in the Central High Crisis.
    Well we never did pass anti-gay constitutional amendments here.

    And rareboy is Canadian, which country is and has been morally above the United States since its inception. Can you name the abbreviations for all of the provinces? I can't.
    Last edited by Alnitak; May 16th, 2014 at 04:54 AM.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Your mock of the name and then the gaff using Alaska's postal abbreviation really backfired and exposed the fallacy of the East Coast elitism. Shame on you.
    Temper. Temper.

  48. #98
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Well we never did pass anti-gay constitutional amendments here.

    And rareboy is Canadian, which country is and has been morally above the United States since its inception. Can you name the abbreviations for all of the provinces? I can't.
    Anyone could list the failings of any state. That doesn't validate sweeping bigotry against regions and states. Populations are diverse everywhere. Whereas I couldn't name the Canadian abbreviations, I wouldn't be posting them without looking them up nor would I be blanketing Canada with mocking disparagements. I don't believe Canadians are wool-cap-wearing lumberjacks with a vocabulary limited to "eh?" and I don't expect similar stereotypes in return.

    Maryland has its own flaws to live down. The goal isn't to make the states at war again.

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    Temper. Temper.
    Indeed. The same patriotism that rises to defends one's nation rises to defends one's neighbors, against attacks, foreign and domestic.

    I guess I should be deeply grateful that a Canadian deigns to opine on Arkansas from afar. Right.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; May 16th, 2014 at 05:20 AM.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Anyone could list the failings of any state.
    That doesn't make them equally guilty.

    Whereas I couldn't name the Canadian abbreviations, I wouldn't be posting them without looking them up
    At least it was a reasonable guess... Jackinsea did post a reminder.

    nor would I be blanketing Canada with mocking disparagements.
    Cmon we do it all the time

    I don't believe Canadians are wool-cap-wearing lumberjacks with a vocabulary limited to "eh?" and I don't expect similar stereotypes in return.
    On Wednesdays they go shopping, and have buttered scones for tea.

    Maryland has its own flaws to live down. The goal isn't to make the states at war again.
    It wasn't Maryland that started the Civil War, or resisted integration, and we were the first to pass same sex marriage electorally.

    I guess I should be deeply grateful that a Canadian deigns to opine on Arkansas from afar. Right.
    I think there is something to be said about the authority these countries carry to lecture the world about human rights.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Anyone could list the failings of any state. That doesn't validate sweeping bigotry against regions and states. Populations are diverse everywhere.
    I agree with this. I must admit that well into my adulthood my impression of the south was that it was entirely filled with abject yokels. I do know when I began to question this impression - it was hearing James Carville back in the day on CNN. I even permitted myself to be astonished that someone could speak so insightfully and articulately with that accent.

    Which propaganda arm of the Canadian government had forced this distorted view on me that James Carville began to dispel? Well, actually, you need look no further than the media and politics and news broadcasts of your own country, making their way across your northern border. Dukes of Hazzard. Jim and Tammy Faye. David Duke. Waco. Every Hollywood film ever made where the story requires us to understand someone's uneducated outsider status. Every mayor of New Orleans ever elected. Even Cletus on the Simpsons. I could go on, but that's all we had to go by.

    Who knows how much depth and humanity and intellect inheres in the population there with these people, Americans, chosen by Americans, as the cultural ambassadors of this region?

    Well, I do know it, and it helped me to appreciate the need for a little more skepticism in popular portrayals of different people. But perhaps you can appreciate how it was a challenge to discover.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Whereas I couldn't name the Canadian abbreviations, I wouldn't be posting them without looking them up nor would I be blanketing Canada with mocking disparagements.
    Complete ignorance of another country's structure does not trump someone else's misremembered postal abbreviation as an indicator of objective and fair-minded commentary. For your reference:

    British Columbia: BC
    Alberta: AB
    Saskatchewan: SK
    Manitoba: MB
    Ontario: ON
    Quebec: QC
    New Brunswick: NB
    Nova Scotia: NS
    Prince Edward Island: PE
    Newfoundland and Labrador: NL
    Nunavut: NU
    Northwest Territories: NT
    Yukon: YT

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    I don't believe Canadians are wool-cap-wearing lumberjacks with a vocabulary limited to "eh?" and I don't expect similar stereotypes in return.

    Maryland has its own flaws to live down. The goal isn't to make the states at war again.



    Indeed. The same patriotism that rises to defends one's nation rises to defends one's neighbors, against attacks, foreign and domestic.

    I guess I should be deeply grateful that a Canadian deigns to opine on Arkansas from afar. Right.
    I live more than 2000 km from any part of the US that could be said to be The South, and I've never been. Yet my own Capital is almost 3000 km away, and surely I should be allowed to comment on that. I think proximity is not really relevant. We both live in vast countries. Neither of us can hope to visit every corner of our own countries let alone each other's. It's likely each of us knows nothing of life in some place in his own country. Moreover both of us could probably find some part of each other's country where we have some greater insight than the one who actually shares the same nationality with that place. But that requires actually paying attention to the place and not worrying about whether you've memorised enough postal abbreviations to be qualified to comment.
    Last edited by bankside; May 16th, 2014 at 06:31 AM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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