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  1. #1
    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Arkansas' Pulaski Circuit Judge Chris Piazza will take one more week to rule on the state's marriage case Wright v. State of Arkansas.

    Judge Piazza previously struck down the state's adoption ban, which was affirmed by the state supreme court.

    The new self imposed deadline is next Friday, May 9.

    See LETTER FROM COURT

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Here's hoping he does the right thing again.

  3. #3

    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    It'll be interesting to see if the ruling is stayed on appeal, since it's going through the state and not federal court systems (even though it does raise federal questions).

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    It'll be interesting to see if the ruling is stayed on appeal, since it's going through the state and not federal court systems (even though it does raise federal questions).
    It used to be that appeal from a state court to the US Supreme Court was a matter of right. In accordance with its lazy trend over the last fifty years that is no longer the case.

  5. #5

    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    I have a feeling Arkansas is going to be the next Utah...

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    I wonder why the judge waited an extra week.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    I wonder why the judge waited an extra week.
    Perhaps it is taking him longer than expected. Who knows? In such a case where the ruling is turned around in a week or so, it is likely most of it was already composed before oral arguments.

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    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    I wonder why the judge waited an extra week.
    Cliffhanger.

    Drama.

    Builds the suspense.

    Lawyers and all of us buy more snacks awaiting the outcome and the ratings go up.

    It had better not be one of those 'dream sequence' endings though.
    Last edited by rareboy; May 3rd, 2014 at 02:14 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Cliffhanger.

    Drama.

    Builds the suspense.

    Lawyers and all of us buy more snacks awaiting the outcome and the ratings go up.

    It had better not be one of those 'dream sequence' endings though.
    Wright v. Arkansas is our fifth oldest open marriage case, and the first one filed after Windsor was decided. If the judge were really in a hurry he would have ruled even earlier, but actually he is still doing this rather quickly. Most cases take a year in a court of first instance, and it has been just 10 months since filing.
    Last edited by Alnitak; May 3rd, 2014 at 02:49 PM.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    If he's 100% certain an appeal is coming, I don't blame him for wanting time for extra support for his position.

  11. #11
    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by JackinSea View Post
    If he's 100% certain an appeal is coming, I don't blame him for wanting time for extra support for his position.
    Protecting the record I'm sure. This is certain to go to the Supreme Court of Arkansas, which is socially liberal, and then an appeal to the US Supreme Court, both of which will add considerable time if a stay is granted. However, there is a chance that Arkansas could be the first Bible Belt state to grant same sex marriage licenses should a ruling become effective before SCOTUS mandates it.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by JackinSea View Post
    If he's 100% certain an appeal is coming, I don't blame him for wanting time for extra support for his position.
    I am certain any judgment will be appealed.

    Arkansas Attorney General Supports Gay Marriage, But Will Defend State's Ban

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5259683.html

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    I don't think state supreme court ruling can be appealed like that? Otherwise, MA and IA would've been appealed.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    If the AR Supreme Court rules in our favor, I think it's game over.

  15. #15
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by JackinSea View Post
    I don't think state supreme court ruling can be appealed like that? Otherwise, MA and IA would've been appealed.
    Those states were won by state constitutional determination. Idaho has an amendment that makes that impossible The argument is thus a federal question.

  16. #16

    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    If the AR Supreme Court rules in our favor, I think it's game over.
    Agreed. Honestly I think they may not even stay the district court decision, given how liberal they tend to be.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    A decision is expected any moment. If in our favor as many expect it to be, chances are that it will be late this afternoon after the high court closes for business to give couples a chance to marry over the weekend, which Judge Friedman did for Michigan.

  18. #18
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Shrewd judge. Chris Piazza's decision will be published after 5 pm local time.

    Stay tuned....

  19. #19
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Unconstitutional

    ...this court hereby finds the arkansas constitutional and legislative ban on same sex marriage through act 144 of 1997 and amendment 83 unconstitutional.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/223130078/...-2662-decision
    Quotes to follow...

  20. #20
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    .
    ...another small step.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  21. #21
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    "Although marriage is not expressly identified as a fundamental right in the Constitution, the United States Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized it as such." p. 3

    "...same sex couples fulfill all four factors to be considered a suspect or quasi-suspect classification." p. 4

    "...the Equal Protection Clause prohibits classifications from being drawn for 'the purpose of disadvantaging the group burdened by the law,' Romer [1996]..." p. 4

    "The exclusion of a minority for no rational reason is a dangerous precedent." p. 8

    "'The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy... [Barnette (1943)]" p. 8

    "Procreation is not a prerequisite in Arkansas for a marriage license." p. 9

    "...the constitutional amendment... is driven by animus rather than a rational basis." p. 9

    "The only effect the bans have on children is harming those children of same-sex couples..." p. 9

    "...doctrinal developments render the decision in Baker no longer binding." p. 9

    "The fact that a particular discrimination has been 'traditional' is even more of a reason to be skeptical..." p. 9

    "...Justice Scalia noted in dissent, 'preserving the traditional institution of marriage' is just a kinder way of describing the State's moral disapproval..." p. 10

    "The strength of our nation is in our freedom... right of due process and equal protection..." p. 11

    "Our judiciary has failed such groups in the past." (references Dred Scott & Loving) p. 11

    "Our freedoms are often acquired slowly, but our country has evolved as a beacon of liberty in what is sometimes a dark world." p. 12
    Last edited by Alnitak; May 9th, 2014 at 03:28 PM.

  22. #22

    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    And no stay either. I won't be at all surprised if one is refused by the state supreme court.

  23. #23
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    And no stay either. I won't be at all surprised if one is refused by the state supreme court.
    Grrrreat!

    Pulaski Co. clerk says he is prepared to issue licenses first thing Monday.

    Judge Chris Piazza invalidates Arkansas's same-sex marriage ban

  24. #24
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    "Although marriage is not expressly identified as a fundamental right in the Constitution, the United States Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized it as such." p. 3

    "...same sex couples fulfill all four factors to be considered a suspect or quasi-suspect classification." p. 4

    "...the Equal Protection Clause prohibits classifications from being drawn for 'the purpose of disadvantaging the group burdened by the law,' Romer [1996]..." p. 4

    "The exclusion of a minority for no rational reason is a dangerous precedent." p. 8

    "'The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy... [Barnette (1943)]" p. 8

    "Procreation is not a prerequisite in Arkansas for a marriage license." p. 9

    "...the constitutional amendment... is driven by animus rather than a rational basis." p. 9

    "The only effect the bans have on children is harming those children of same-sex couples..." p. 9

    "...doctrinal developments render the decision in Baker no longer binding." p. 9

    "The fact that a particular discrimination has been 'traditional' is even more of a reason to be skeptical..." p. 9

    "...Justice Scalia noted in dissent, 'preserving the traditional institution of marriage' is just a kinder way of describing the State's moral disapproval..." p. 10

    "The strength of our nation is in our freedom... right of due process and equal protection..." p. 11

    "Our judiciary has failed such groups in the past." (references Dred Scott & Loving) p. 11

    "Our freedoms are often acquired slowly, but our country has evolved as a beacon of liberty in what is sometimes a dark world." p. 12

    Oh thank you for this.

    It made my day.

    Now Springer can get marriaged.

  25. #25
    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    The drama will unfold in coming days, but Eureka Springs has office hours on Saturday. It is unknown if the Carroll County clerk intends to issue licenses tomorrow. It is a small town near the border with Missouri, and being so late there might not be more information until the morning. Legally the district courthouse cannot refuse a license. In Utah there were a few counties that initially resisted, as was to be expected, before being threatened with lawsuits and the county attorneys advised them to proceed. The Carroll County clerk risks a civil rights lawsuit if she refuses, but we'll see.
    Last edited by Alnitak; May 9th, 2014 at 06:29 PM.

  26. #26
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    He "invalidated" it in the same way that the iceberg "caused the Titanic to take on a bit of water."

    Thank you for the quotes; they show someone who really gets it.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Eureka Springs is supposed to be some kind of gay oasis, so barring a stay there should be lots of happy couples tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    He "invalidated" it in the same way that the iceberg "caused the Titanic to take on a bit of water."

    Thank you for the quotes; they show someone who really gets it.
    They all do now. These bans are unravelling at an unprecedented pace.

  28. #28
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Unless a higher court actually overturns the decision, I'm sure the federal govt will recognize marriages that take place before any stay is issued.

  29. #29

    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by JackinSea View Post
    Unless a higher court actually overturns the decision, I'm sure the federal govt will recognize marriages that take place before any stay is issued.
    Or IF any stay is issued.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    All I can think of is that the AG must be covering himself in case he decides to run for another office later; however, I think he's na´ve if he thinks that defending the law won't hide the fact that he's officially "against" it.

  31. #31

    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    After some confusion (couples in line were initially told the office wouldn't be opening and to leave), the first license was issued in Eureka Springs just moments ago!

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Arkansas clerk issues 1st gay marriage license

    Carroll County Deputy Clerk Jane Osborn issued a license Saturday morning to Kristin Seaton, 27, and Jennifer Rambo, 26, of Fort Smith. They had slept in a Ford Focus after arriving in Eureka Springs at 2 a.m. Saturday and were the first of about 10 couples to line up outside of the courthouse before it opened.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    After some confusion (couples in line were initially told the office wouldn't be opening and to leave), the first license was issued in Eureka Springs just moments ago!
    The first deputy to arrive at the courthouse refused to issue licenses, citing the absence of the county clerk to give permission, and then used the lame excuse of wanting the attorney general's opinion. Note that Carroll County has two seats, and the main clerk's office is in Berryville, so the first one was obviously a lie. Anyway, I'm not surprised at all. We have seen such excuses before. Police then arrived to "disperse" the crowd. The second deputy, Jane Osborne, then arrived and happily issued licenses.

    http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...14/05/10/87093

    There will also be a conference call at 2 p.m. today by the Association of Counties to discuss the ruling. This is Arkansas, and there are plenty of bigots out there. They know they cannot outright refuse, so there will be subtle attempts to try, e.g. lame excuses. We will find out soon enough what they intend to do.

    http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog...me-sex-couples
    Last edited by Alnitak; May 10th, 2014 at 10:05 AM.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    I'm fully confident that the counties will stall during the day on Monday, hoping for a stay.

  35. #35

    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by JackinSea View Post
    I'm fully confident that the counties will stall during the day on Monday, hoping for a stay.
    They can't, unless they wanna get sued (if a stay is not granted that is).

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    They can't, unless they wanna get sued (if a stay is not granted that is).
    They can if they just plain close for the day.

  37. #37
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Eureka Springs is supposed to be some kind of gay oasis, so barring a stay there should be lots of happy couples tomorrow.
    Bohemian might be a better term. It is known for its artists and bit of a tourist town. Also, quite a bit of pot in the area.

    Arkansas isn't particularly harsh on gays, nor is it lacking in ACLU, so an oasis isn't really needed. A couple of towns have higher concentrations, but like most rural states, gays just grow up and leave for urban areas.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; May 10th, 2014 at 01:21 PM.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    "We're waiting for 'further guidance' here ..." as some did in Utah the first business day.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Bohemian might be a better term. It is known for its artists and bit of a tourist town. Also, quite a bit of pot in the area.

    Arkansas isn't particularly harsh on gays, nor is it lacking in ACLU. As most rural states, it just takes a bit of time to get progress rolling.
    Skirts over jeans are de rigueur.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JackinSea View Post
    "We're waiting for 'further guidance' here ..." as some did in Utah the first business day.
    Oh man is that ever the juiciest lame excuse.

  40. #40
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    For gays or gals?

    If they are, they weren't when I left there in 2006.

  41. #41
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    I am certain any judgment will be appealed.
    I don't see the state wasting the money. Back in the 80's when Gov. White signed into law an idiotic Creation Science bill, he was ridiculed for the rest of his term for being such an ass. The citizens even back then knew the pointlessness of paying for stupid appeals when the laws were unconstitutional.

    George Fisher, then political cartoonist for the Arkansas Gazette, never again drew the governor without showing him holding a banana.



    The gay population in Arkansas is much smaller proportional to total population than other southern states like Texas, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, and the Carolinas, as all of them have metropolitan centers that have significant enclaves (Dallas, Nashville, Altanta, Miami, Raleigh, and Charleston.) But, it will be nice to see the rights enshrined in law, especially for the few.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; May 10th, 2014 at 01:41 PM.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Arkansas is the first "true" southern state to issue gay marriage licenses.

    Although Maryland and Delaware are "officially" southern according to the US Census Bureau, Arkansas is the first state which was part of the old Confederacy to issue such licenses.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Chances are we will see quite a bit of stalling and playing dumb tomorrow. The head of the counties association was quite coy.

    Piazza's lack of a stay caused confusion among county clerks, Association of Arkansas Counties executive director Chris Villines said.

    "The court didn't give us any time to get the kinks worked out," Villines said.

    Villines said after a conference call with county clerks from around the state he wasn't sure how many counties would being issuing same-sex marriage licenses Monday. Villines said county officials around the state were dismayed with the timing of Piazza's decision and that he didn't stay the ruling.

    Arkansas issues same-sex marriage licenses
    And one of the counties' attorneys was also coy,

    Jason Owens, an attorney for four of the six counties named in the lawsuit over the gay marriage ban, said he'll ask Piazza on Monday for guidance on how to proceed.

    "My clients want to follow the law. We just want to know what the law is, essentially," Owens said.
    The law is you cannot refuse a license. It's really that simple.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    And no stay either. I won't be at all surprised if one is refused by the state supreme court.
    State AG Dustin McDaniel announced last night that he will file the appeal to the AK supreme court on Monday.

    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/arkan...arriage-ruling

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    To try and be fair to the clerks, as I understand it, technically the judge's order only applied to six counties, so the other clerks may, indeed, need clarification.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    Judge Piazza's opinion has a nice statement at the end, which bears repeating here.

    It has been over forty years since Mildred Loving was given the right to marry the person of her choice. The hatred and fears have long since vanished and she and her husband lived full lives together; so it will be for the same-sex couples. It is time to let that beacon of freedom shine brighter on all our brothers and sisters. We will be stronger for it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails BnXKaA4IQAAE-y6.jpg  
    Last edited by T-Rexx; May 11th, 2014 at 09:49 AM.

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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    ...................
    Amen!

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  48. #48
    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    I have been waiting for Springer to weigh in on this huge step forward for his home state....

    nothing???

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    I have been waiting for Springer to weigh in on this huge step forward for his home state.... nothing???
    Maybe he has nobody he wants to marry. I know it's not plausible, but stranger things and all that...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  50. #50
    Thankfully Liberal & Gay
    frankfrank's Avatar
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    Code of Conduct

    Re: Arkansas Judge Will Rule re: Marriage Case

    GREAT to see such a development in the "true South" - though Arkansas, in recent years, has not seemed to be as infected by "Tea Party Crazy" as most of the South.

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    They can't, unless they wanna get sued (if a stay is not granted that is).
    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    They can if they just plain close for the day.
    This whole thing, so far, has been during a weekend. Aren't most county offices closed all weekend anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    I have been waiting for Springer to weigh in on this huge step forward for his home state....

    nothing???
    I always thought he was from somewhere in southwest Missouri? Maybe around Butler or Nevada (nuh-VAY-dah) or something?
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - We need a 28th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution which resembles this...NOW!

    VOTING: Just remember: "Be careful of what you DON'T wish for. You might just get it." GET OUT AND VOTE, instead, for what you DO wish for.

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