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  1. #1
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    A long read but worth it.

    How Obama evolved on marriage equality and how circumstances compelled him to step forward.

    In explaining how his thinking had “evolved,” he hit on many of the poll-tested talking points that [Ken Mehlman] [former chairman of RNC; thereafter came out] outlined in the memo he sent months earlier to Plouffe [a senior adviser to Obama]. He brought up Malia and Sasha, and talked about how “it doesn’t make sense to them” that the law treats gay parents of their friends differently from their own. He spoke of the need to respect religious liberty, but said that for him, as a practicing Christian, his faith was rooted “not only [in] Christ sacrificing himself on our behalf, but it’s also the golden rule.” He spoke about the “soldiers or airmen or Marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ is gone, because they’re not able to commit themselves in a marriage.” And he said that while he respected the views of those who disagreed with him, “I think it’s important to say that in this country, we’ve always been about fairness and treating everybody as equals. I actually think that, you know, it’s consistent with our best and in some cases our most conservative values, sort of the foundation of what made this country great.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/20/ma...rriage.html?hp
    The final stages were engineered by numerous people, with the concluding element being the decision to take a position on Proposition 8, even though the United States was not a party to the action pending in the Supreme Court.

  2. #2
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    It wasn't evolution at all -- it was intelligent design!


























    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  3. #3
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    that seems like a long article for, most likely, wasn't ever anything but pure political calculation.

    pre-Presidential run: Obama was for gay marriage
    2008 Presidential run starts: Obama "evolves" to not alienate black voters and conservative Dems
    2012 Presidential run starts: Biden accidentally comes out in favor of legalizing gay marriage, which forces Obama to "evolve" again (supposedly royally pissing off the Obama camp, who wanted to stage a big announcement of his "evolution" closer to the election to score some press)

  4. #4
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    I think it was pure political calculation and had nothing to do with evolving on the issue.

    The reason I think it is political calculation...

    On two separate occasions he refused to be photographed with or be in the same room with then San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom because he thought being photographed with him would hurt his image as Newsom bravely stood up for gay marriage and defied everyone. Obama was a weasel. He was on a fundraising tour and Newsom was a mayor of a MAJOR American city helping him with his fundraising.

    I like him OK but what he did in SF defined him for me...he is a calculated politician. I am OK with that. I don't think it is a crime and quite possibly it is the only way to win an election.

    Most of the liberals I know dislike him. I would have voted for someone else probably myself if he didn't "evolve" on the issue. He was a huge disappointment for me on healthcare (NOT for the same reason as the Republicans!) and for kissing the ass of the conservatives in Congress. If you are gonna bend over that far you should at least demand some lube and condoms. I think the polls showed he needed to energize the liberals who might have split the vote...or stayed home.
    Brainwash yourself before someone nasty beats you to it

  5. #5
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    ^^ Of course there were political considerations involved, but remember that Obama was not an impediment in the way of marriage equality. Until the country had done some evolving, favoring marriage equality would not have been fortuitous or productive.

  6. #6
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    ^^ Of course there were political considerations involved, but remember that Obama was not an impediment in the way of marriage equality. Until the country had done some evolving, favoring marriage equality would not have been fortuitous or productive.
    I think he took it further than that when he snubbed the mayor. None of the other candidates did. I thought it demonstrated bad judgement and a lack of backbone.

    I am glad he "evolved" and I know he can't just say it was political calculation...but I can.
    Brainwash yourself before someone nasty beats you to it

  7. #7
    Oranje rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    It wasn't evolution at all -- it was intelligent design!

    Best.

    Post.

    of.

    the.

    Day.

























    Best.

    Post.

    of.

    the.

    Day.

  8. #8

    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    What else is new? The important thing is we have the Democratic party. The Republican party will one day follow, but it might take another Presidential election or two.

  9. #9
    Oranje rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    I don't think he personally evolved at all.

    I think he was always for it.

    He just waited until the temperature was right to declare it.

  10. #10
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    unfortunately americans come along very slowly--and change their minds several times along the way depending on how much fox news they are watching. bush and ham head karl rove came up with the idea of including a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage in the 2004---thinking it would be a close election and making sure his homophobic gop base came to the polls.

  11. #11
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    Deep down, he is an atheist until he proven otherwise like "born again ... "


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  12. #12

    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    Obama is a politician ... say it isn't so.

  13. #13
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    ^ Yes he is. Even if he didn't change his mind or evolve on this issue President Obama did more for gay people then any other President. The Republicans don't want laws and rights to even remain status-quo as in 2008, they fight to reduce rights of gays. Jack your party is a prime example of Develotuion. Jack from your various post I understand how the dodo bird became extinction because it couldn't evolve.

  14. #14
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    The president though I have scarcely any respect for... he's pathetically intellectually corrupt and Machiavellian. He supported gay marriage equality running for the Chicago legislature and backtracked when it wasn't a stand that played at the time for his national ambitions. His whole evolution story is a crock but I don't expect any thing else from this Chicago trained schemer. Others did the heavy lifting and he came on board when it was in synch for where the mood of the country, and especially of his base, had gone. They evolved, not him... he waved finger in the air and calculated his best avenue of action. Yes, thank you Mr. Obama for being in the right time and the right place to stand for the right thing. Your courage stands as a shining example for all of us.

    In a decade people will look back and wonder how this Wizard of Oz could have ever been elected.... promising the beginning of a historical transformation in al things. So grandiose yet in the end so small. January 20, 2017 cannot come fast enough.
    unofficial official mini meet Friday- Saturday April 11-12, 2014

  15. #15
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    The president though I have scarcely any respect for... he's pathetically intellectually corrupt and Machiavellian. He supported gay marriage equality running for the Chicago legislature and backtracked when it wasn't a stand that played at the time for his national ambitions. His whole evolution story is a crock but I don't expect any thing else from this Chicago trained schemer. Others did the heavy lifting and he came on board when it was in synch for where the mood of the country, and especially of his base, had gone. They evolved, not him... he waved finger in the air and calculated his best avenue of action. Yes, thank you Mr. Obama for being in the right time and the right place to stand for the right thing. Your courage stands as a shining example for all of us.

    In a decade people will look back and wonder how this Wizard of Oz could have ever been elected.... promising the beginning of a historical transformation in al things. So grandiose yet in the end so small. January 20, 2017 cannot come fast enough.
    When it's a choice between the Wizard of Oz and unleashing social Darwinism . . . .

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  16. #16
    JUB Addict darden's Avatar
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by vulgar_newcomer View Post
    ^ Yes he is. Even if he didn't change his mind or evolve on this issue President Obama did more for gay people then any other President. The Republicans don't want laws and rights to even remain status-quo as in 2008, they fight to reduce rights of gays. Jack your party is a prime example of Develotuion. Jack from your various post I understand how the dodo bird became extinction because it couldn't evolve.
    my only real criticism is that it feels like people like Biden or Joe Lieberman don't really get enough credit. Biden more or less forced Obama's hand on coming out in support of gay marriage, and Lieberman did all the heavy lifting on ending Don't Ask/Don't Tell after the WH seemingly abandoned the fight.

  17. #17

    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by darden View Post
    my only real criticism is that it feels like people like Biden or Joe Lieberman don't really get enough credit. Biden more or less forced Obama's hand on coming out in support of gay marriage, and Lieberman did all the heavy lifting on ending Don't Ask/Don't Tell after the WH seemingly abandoned the fight.
    Don't forget to mention Patrick Murphy too.

  18. #18
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by darden View Post
    my only real criticism is that it feels like people like Biden or Joe Lieberman don't really get enough credit. Biden more or less forced Obama's hand on coming out in support of gay marriage, and Lieberman did all the heavy lifting on ending Don't Ask/Don't Tell after the WH seemingly abandoned the fight.
    I recall some observers suggesting that Obama stayed out of the fight because he would have made things worse no matter what he did. If that's true, he deserves credit for knowing when to keep his trap shut.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  19. #19
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I recall some observers suggesting that Obama stayed out of the fight because he would have made things worse no matter what he did. If that's true, he deserves credit for knowing when to keep his trap shut.
    And they are exactly right. 2010 was as much of a backlash against Obama then anything else. Him jumping in at that time would NOT have helped.
    As to the rest, he did what so many others did, dragged their feet until it was safe for them to declare support.

  20. #20
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    Agreed that it was a definite political liability until recently. However, I'm reading Double Down, about the 2012 campaign, where it's said that it was an open secret in the White House that he was never personally opposed, and making noises about when it might be okay to start saying so as early as 2004.

  21. #21
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I recall some observers suggesting that Obama stayed out of the fight because he would have made things worse no matter what he did. If that's true, he deserves credit for knowing when to keep his trap shut.
    From the OP article concerning an Obama meeting with the attorney general and solicitor general about how to advance marriage equality before the Supreme Court:

    The president did not need to be persuaded on the larger moral question; whatever he may have said in the past, he, too, saw the marriage debate through the prism of civil rights, according to [White House counsel] Ruemmler and Holder. But Obama wanted to offer [Justice] Kennedy and the rest of the justices an incremental way to decide the Proposition 8 case that would not force them to overturn bans across the country, a position that he worried the court would find untenable.
    He deserves credit for authorizing the unconstitutionality of DOMA argument and for interjecting the Government into the Prop 8 case.

  22. #22
    Oranje rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by darden View Post
    my only real criticism is that it feels like people like Biden or Joe Lieberman don't really get enough credit. Biden more or less forced Obama's hand on coming out in support of gay marriage, and Lieberman did all the heavy lifting on ending Don't Ask/Don't Tell after the WH seemingly abandoned the fight.
    Biden didn't force Obama's hand.

    I think that he was the canary in the coal mine.

  23. #23
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    It's fairly clear that Biden's action did force Obama to announce support for marriage equality perhaps slightly sooner than he'd planned, but probably not all that much. In other words, he wanted to make a "dramatic" planned announcement, rather than a sudden one on reaction.

  24. #24
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    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    Ah yes...Biden...the Selena Meyer of the Obama tenancy in the White House....

  25. #25

    Re: Obama's Evolution on Marriage Equality

    I agree with the opinion above that he always was a supporter, but waited for the right moment to express it. I think he's been a really good president.

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