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  1. #1
    JUB Addict peeonme's Avatar
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    Knife attack... No such thing as a bad boy?

    http://www.post-gazette.com/local/we...s/201404090148

    A 16 year old launched this attack, I won't enumerate all of the school killings that have happened, it almost gives these murderers some voice to do so.

    But, my question is this...

    Floyd Starr coined the phrase "there is no such thing as a bad boy" back in 1913 and started a new type of reform school bases on this primus. The school took in wayward boys, delinquents, and those who just weren't wanted. I was there and fit into the third category.

    It was a rough place, a lot of little criminals running around, fights were a daily occurrence as were sexual assaults, saying this I look back with some fondness at my experience there,
    my asthma vanished a few weeks after I arrived, as did a skin rash that had plagued me, it took me years to realize that good had come from being there.

    But, was Mr. Starr wrong? are there bad boys? Is this a nature verses nurture thing? Do these young killers come wired as such?

    somehow I got a double post...sorry
    Last edited by peeonme; April 12th, 2014 at 03:49 AM.

  2. #2
    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Knife attack... No such thing as a bad boy?

    Of course there are people who are wired to be merciless sociopathic killers.

    In 1913, not a lot was known about the neuro-chemistry of the brain, or what happens when pieces of it may literally be missing or damaged.

    I'm sure that Mr. Starr probably thought that hard work, prayer and good food would be the salvation of many bad boys and he likely did change the lives of many boys who had been abused and abandoned. But he certainly would not have changed those who were pathologically predisposed to violence.

  3. #3
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: Knife attack... No such thing as a bad boy?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    But, was Mr. Starr wrong? Are there bad boys? Is this a nature versus nurture thing? Do these young killers come wired as such
    First of all, God bless Mr. Starr for his efforts. It is a challenging, tiring, and often discouraging work to take up.

    There is no simple answer. The desire to impute all evil, malice, or malevolence to biology is a philosophy more than a scientific position.

    Some pathological deviance is indeed born in genes and brain development. Other misdeeds have grown out of malformed psyches that have progressively grown warped.

    Prevention is indeed the area that needs to be addressed by the U.S. society. in the meantime, the question of responsibility and accountability will dominate attention.

  4. #4
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    Re: Knife attack... No such thing as a bad boy?

    The kid looks like a pimply 13 year old--he was a good boy according to everything I read, never in trouble---something snapped obviously----on a side note--seems ridiculous to charge a 16 year old as an adult, which the prosecution want to do-- when they are not even at the age of consent.

  5. #5
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: Knife attack... No such thing as a bad boy?

    The clear risk is that without an insanity plea, a juvenile may not be kept into adulthood.

    The attacks could be answered in law with a relative slap on the wrist in terms of incarceration.

    The damage to so many lives and bodies merits a strong response from the People, and that isn't mere counseling and dorm life for two years.

  6. #6
    JUB Addict peeonme's Avatar
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    Re: Knife attack... No such thing as a bad boy?

    What truly puzzles me is that I spent 18 mos. with aprox. 180 other boys, from all walks of life, age span was from 11 through 17.
    I have done some name searches on a few that I remembered, only 2 cases showed as having any trouble with the law after 18.

    I am in touch with 2 of them, one is quit successful business wise, all 3 of of us lead decent lives, in the time that I was in that school I never saw any boy attack for any reason other than revenge for a prior assault, we worked with tools and kitchen knives, I actually had less harm in that school inflicted upon me than I did in public school. Differences were settled with our fists, not weapons.

    Since 1913 society has changed a lot, moral standards are different, the "me" generation came along and regard for our fellow man is not what it once was.

    For what ever selfish reason, some individuals and some groups seem to justify inflicting harm on whomever they so choose because life has somehow not gone their way, I don't see this as a mental disorder, rather as a disease of the soul and spirit of man kind, the I before you mentality that leads to road rage, the same mind set that says one can high jack a plane and use it for a weapon.

    One thing that Mr. Starr enforced were manors, please, thank you, others first. No elbows on the table, no cussing, dress properly for school and Church etc. These were societal values of his day, today one seems strange to live with in these confines, I find that they lend themselves toward self control, self control might just be a place to start when trying to find out why people think that they have the right to kill others.

  7. #7
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    Re: Knife attack... No such thing as a bad boy?

    I think anyone is capable of doing bad things. When you make a practice of doing bad things, then you are a bad person.
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  8. #8

    Re: Knife attack... No such thing as a bad boy?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    ... I look back with some fondness at my experience there,
    my asthma vanished a few weeks after I arrived, as did a skin rash that had plagued me....
    Did they feed you differently or have better medical advice?

  9. #9
    BOO!!! Mwahahahaha!!!!! Willie Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Knife attack... No such thing as a bad boy?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    These were societal values of his day, today one seems strange to live with in these confines....
    That is the problem right there. The moral values of society have so eroded that it has becoming acceptable to lash out at the merest perceived slight.
    It's never too early in the year,
    to spread some goodwill cheer!

  10. #10
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Knife attack... No such thing as a bad boy?

    Injuring, maiming, murdering our fellow man even, our brother has been a fact of life since the days of Cain, and Abel with wars between tribes stretching back to the beginning of man's recorded history...

    The "me" society has been a fact of human life since homo sapiens first emerged....and prisons are not a recent invention.

    I'm not convinced that "good table manners" determines who is worthy of being nominated...the ideal human being...for the worst atrocities committed by man, against our fellow man took place during the so called good old days of our grandparents, and great grandparents with two world wars during the twentieth century evidencing human values that were not respected.

    While selfish, or self seeking behaviour has been a fact of life for as long as human life has walked this earth, so has altruistic behaviour with the added benefit that each of us recognises the good that man does sufficiently, to expect such humanitarian traits to be the norm...which I believe to be the case......despite, the size of our prison population evidencing that the road ahead remains long, and arduous encouraging human life to better the man, they were yesterday....self improvement, a target for all human beings....with the media daily reporting horrific acts of violence, whilst neglecting to report the good that man does....the norm that all of us respect, and expect...

  11. #11
    JUB Addict peeonme's Avatar
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    Re: Knife attack... No such thing as a bad boy?

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    Did they feed you differently or have better medical advice?
    I later found that these were stressed induced conditions, leaving an abusive disheveled "home" and going to a clean structured environment seems to be what changed and put to rest these physical ailments.
    I did eat differently, no junk food also lots of exercise.

  12. #12
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Knife attack... No such thing as a bad boy?

    Everyone in the world is quite mad, except for me, and thee....occasionally I have my doubts about those who believe that they are saner, than I...for bad boys, are often masquerading under the cover of the sane...for the present...

  13. #13
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Knife attack... No such thing as a bad boy?

    http://murderpedia.org/male.L/l/lupo-michael.htm

    When a student in London all those years ago, I knew this murderer, very well, not well enough to bed him, for he rejected my advances for I was not his type, or interested in paying him...but I knew him well enough to understand that he was not your stereotypical murderer...as we understand the "insane" person...for butter would not melt in his mouth...he was that gentle, and endearing...but...it is estimated Michele Lupo murdered easily twenty gay men in London, Amsterdam and Paris.....yet, he did not fit the predictable image of the murderer...circumstances often dictate how the human person responds to life's stimuli...rather than being poorly wired...
    Last edited by kallipolis; April 13th, 2014 at 01:58 AM.

  14. #14
    JUB Addict peeonme's Avatar
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    Re: Knife attack... No such thing as a bad boy?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Injuring, maiming, murdering our fellow man even, our brother has been a fact of life since the days of Cain, and Abel with wars between tribes stretching back to the beginning of man's recorded history...

    The "me" society has been a fact of human life since homo sapiens first emerged....and prisons are not a recent invention.

    I'm not convinced that "good table manners" determines who is worthy of being nominated...the ideal human being...for the worst atrocities committed by man, against our fellow man took place during the so called good old days of our grandparents, and great grandparents with two world wars during the twentieth century evidencing human values that were not respected.

    While selfish, or self seeking behaviour has been a fact of life for as long as human life has walked this earth, so has altruistic behaviour with the added benefit that each of us recognises the good that man does sufficiently, to expect such humanitarian traits to be the norm...which I believe to be the case......despite, the size of our prison population evidencing that the road ahead remains long, and arduous encouraging human life to better the man, they were yesterday....self improvement, a target for all human beings....with the media daily reporting horrific acts of violence, whilst neglecting to report the good that man does....the norm that all of us respect, and expect...
    It is true that man has always inflicted harm on his fellow man, Cain and Able would be sibling rivalry at it's worse. Tribes rose against tribes, nations against nations.
    The me mentality in my opinion is not found in tribes, if exhibited one could be found on the outside looking in, tribes worked together for survival.
    We see today a wave of violence on a whim, "I hurt, I lash out" seems to be a newer phenomenon, shooting first graders that you never knew and could have never harmed you is or going back to your school with a gun to get even, has nothing to do with a tribal mentality, it has all to do with a person who is either mentally ill or so in to themselves that they have no idea of reality, to me it's a "me first" type of thinking, people raised with no moral values, no rules, no regard for others and no appreciation for life are likely to be the ones who we see on the news.

  15. #15
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Knife attack... No such thing as a bad boy?

    Quote Originally Posted by peeonme View Post
    I
    We see today a wave of violence on a whim, "I hurt, I lash out" seems to be a newer phenomenon, shooting first graders that you never knew and could have never harmed you is or going back to your school with a gun to get even, has nothing to do with a tribal mentality, it has all to do with a person who is either mentally ill or so in to themselves that they have no idea of reality, to me it's a "me first" type of thinking, people raised with no moral values, no rules, no regard for others and no appreciation for life are likely to be the ones who we see on the news.
    The news media focuses entirely on the tragic nature of human life whilst, neglecting the altruistic sacrifices of most human beings....leading many to believe that the values we all treasure are a diminishing reflection of the best in human behaviour..I beg to differ...despite which I am a Kung fu practitioner recognising that I might become the victim of the worst in human behaviour..
    Last edited by kallipolis; April 13th, 2014 at 02:08 AM.

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