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    JUB Addict Gentleheart's Avatar
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    Suicide...what makes the difference?

    In your opinion...what do you think makes the difference between a person who decides to go through with it, and someone who just ponders the idea? What goes on in the former's mind that gives them that extra "push"?
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    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Let's have your opinion first so we can assess your perspective...

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Suicidal ideation begins with overwhelming emotional stress and it can lead to two different attempts: suicide and parasuicide. Not all suicide attempts are made with the intent to actually go through with it. A seriously desperate person may actually the realize the potential to get better and feel better, so may only attempt a parasuicide.
    Last edited by Alnitak; April 9th, 2014 at 08:42 AM.

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Attention. Those that commit to the idea - myself included - might give signs, but usually just do it without waiting for everyone to fall all over themselves to save them from themselves. Those that try to do it with an audience are a rarity, not the rule.
    "Iíve been in the Danger Zone, east of the Pacific Ocean,

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Let's have your opinion first so we can assess your perspective...
    I think the person who goes through it with the real intent to end their life sees no way out/no way back from their situation/circumstances/state of mind, etc.

    The person who only contemplates the idea, but never actually tries probably sees some glimmer of hope or recognizes that things can change (for the better) in an instant. Also...said person may not want to hurt their loved ones, "miss out" on anything, or be afraid of a "botched" attempt.
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    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    ^I have never contemplated suicide therefore, unable to offer anything of substance that addresses your question nevertheless, your opinion is appreciated.

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Unfortunately I am well versed in the subject. A combination of myself in a younger day, my first girlfriend's suicide, my mothers attempted suicide, my friend's suicide attempt, a keen interest in Psychology, and my acceptance into university.

    I never went through with it because I read a lot, I knew full well there were better days ahead, but some days it seemed like nothing would ever go right for me, slowly I realized I had to go left. I got to the bottom of my depression and anxiety, accepting my sexuality was a great first step.

    My girlfriend at the time simply said she just couldn't take it anymore. She felt she had no one else to turn to, other than me. Her family hated her, she couldn't stand her friends, and high school was getting rougher and rougher for her. She had lost all hope in anything, no grades, no good home life, no goals, aspirations, just all around despair. Said she just couldn't fit in anywhere. She said "I just wish I could feel love"

    The difference between her and I was even though I felt some of the same feelings I knew it was me who had control over my perspective. Even though I had a very hard time truly fitting in, I would love myself anyways, if there wasn't many people to talk to at least I would want to understand myself, I could be awfully introspective and introverted at times.

    Both my mother and my friend had a similar situation with their attempted suicide. Both of them over dosed on pills, but there were people who were inside the house at the time, so it was less about wanting to die, but more about wanting to ask for help without the use of words. Sometimes there are no words to describe your pain. Of course on some small level they probably thought it could be the end, maybe the attempt would work and no one would find them. Both of them when confronted admitted to taking a copious amount of pills, meaning they certainly wanted to tell someone. It's too bad sometimes the most real conversations take place in the therapists office.

    From my experience the difference is how alone you really feel. Successful suicides often take place when the person is alone. The irony being they don't want to hurt the people around them, if people realized that those people they don't want to hurt are the people worth living for and you really aren't alone.

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleheart View Post
    I think the person who goes through it with the real intent to end their life sees no way out/no way back from their situation/circumstances/state of mind, etc.

    The person who only contemplates the idea, but never actually tries probably sees some glimmer of hope or recognizes that things can change (for the better) in an instant. Also...said person may not want to hurt their loved ones, "miss out" on anything, or be afraid of a "botched" attempt.
    I agree with this. Maybe I'd also include will power. I had a friend in junior high who contemplated suicide and even went as far as writing a note to his parents. He wasn't able to go through with it and actually do the deed and I believe he really tried. I found out about this when we were in high school and when he was over that suicidal period of life. I had never known. We are still friends to this day and I am thankful he never went through with it.

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    The difference between someone who contemplates suicide and someone who actually goes through with it is 'fear' - fear of life versus fear of death.

    For those who simply contemplate it, the fear of death outweighs the fear of life. For those who go through with it, the fear of life outweighs the fear of death.

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    The difference between someone who contemplates suicide and someone who actually goes through with it is 'fear' - fear of life versus fear of death.

    For those who simply contemplate it, the fear of death outweighs the fear of life. For those who go through with it, the fear of life outweighs the fear of death.
    Considering some of the bullshit that "life" deals us...I find it hard to believe anyone can fear "death" itself, but I appreciate your opinion.
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    I think before my brother committed suicide it was because he saw no way out of a situation he was in.

  15. #15

    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    It's a combination of pain (physical, emotional, or both) a sense of complete hopelessness, and an inability to see any sort of surcease or release other than in death.

    I've been there twice, and as someone who deals with being bi-polar, suicidal thoughts are often with me. Indeed, I have a check-out plan depending on how the future unfolds. That said, I'm trying for a successful future, but it's a definite struggle.

    It's what makes being my friend a challenge for others, and a complete write-off as a potential partner or b/f.

    Ironically, my wonky wiring allows me to write music with a certain degree of depth that resonates with many people.
    Last edited by Pianist; April 9th, 2014 at 10:51 AM.

  16. #16

    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleheart View Post
    Considering some of the bullshit that "life" deals us...I find it hard to believe anyone can fear "death" itself, but I appreciate your opinion.
    Fearing death means that you're not ready to accept that life is hopeless. Your situation might be bleak but there's still hope or faith that you'll overcome or atleast move past.

  17. #17
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    I read somewhere that when one popular method of suicide is made more difficult, suicides decrease. For example, the most common way of committing suicide in the UK used to be "putting the head in the oven". When they changed ovens and/or the gas lines so this wasn't possible, the suicide rate was cut in third. When popular bridges and high buildings installed "anti-suicide" fences or whatnot, the overall suicide rate in the city dropped. This suggests that the theory that "if people are going to commit suicide, you can't stop them" is wrong - apparently, simply making it more of a hassle is enough to get some people to decide against it. They don't simply find another tall building or bridge or weapon.

    Lex

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    connect the dots...
    I weave for you, the marvelous web. glow in the dark threads...all neon like.

  19. #19

    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleheart View Post
    Considering some of the bullshit that "life" deals us...I find it hard to believe anyone can fear "death" itself, but I appreciate your opinion.
    This is what I find amazing... some people can take so much, and still fight to live; while others will off themselves over something relatively small and 'trivial'.
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  20. #20

    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by borg69unimatrix View Post
    This is what I find amazing... some people can take so much, and still fight to live; while others will off themselves over something relatively small and 'trivial'.
    Obviously it isn't wasn't "small and trivial" to them.

  21. #21
    Dance like Machines MakeDigitalLove's Avatar
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    I've never been suicidal but I have hurt myself at a time because I'd rather feel physical pain then emotional. Only real life person I know that knows this is my boyfriend. It is hard to speak how people deal with things emotionally, but speaking for myself to this day there are things that even though I know how to handle it in my head when the situation or emotional stress presents itself I shut down.

    I don't think I can add anything more than that other then agreeing with some view points in this thread based on my perception and not someone who actually understands what someone who is suicidal is going through.

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    JUB Addict m1thousand's Avatar
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    In the late 70s, I made three suicide attempts (over-the-counter sleeping pills, rat poison, electrocution in the bathtub). In 1989, I made five 'passive' attempts with a 357 Magnum.

    As I've said before, I made a vow after my third attempt that I wouldnt kill myself within 10 years. that hasn't happened.

    I have a fascination with suicide and always have. In therapy, that is my biggest issue. I always think I'll end up killing myself so why bother. My therapist hasn't been able to help me get over my ideation with suicide. I really wish I could because I've wasted my life as a result. It would nice to not be a factor in my life.

    Yesterday, I went into Staples because my 4 month old laptop died. My looks obsession was triggered by seeing an attractive older man and the younger guy wearing shorts, nice butt and arms. I started feeling bad about myself.

    I went to go see Captain America 2. I was sitting in the movie theater and I realized that the theater was close to the train station.

    Although I told my mom that I would never try to kill myself while she was alive, the thought cross my mind. This was my chance. I thought about it for a few minutes but decided to not leave.

    A person who really wants to kill themselves would have left the theater and waited for the next train. If someone chooses a lethal way of suicide, they usually want to follow through with it.

    I gave the analogy about the person leaping off a building. suicidal people would be glad the pain is about to end and the others who attempt would think "oh crap, what did I just do?"

    We live in a society where animals and the dying are put out of their misery, but anyone else does not have that choice.

    It's not a selfish act. A selfish act is my mom wanting me to be around while, if given the choice, I would not want to be around.

    I do think about my sisters if I were to do something and I know they would be in pain but I've been in pain for 32 years. I should / anyone should have the right to end their life.

    Ideally, my family would sit down, I would give the my reasons, they could ask questions, and when all is said and done, they would understand my choice and accept it. I think that's the kind of society we should have.

    I ended up walking out of the movie because I just wasn't in the mood to watch it. I went home and went to sleep because I didn't sleep great the previous night.

    I don't share this because I want attention but rather maybe someone will see I have some valid points in what I've said. They do it in Europe. Why can't we have the same option?

    But I know it would be utter chaos if I did try because I've seen my mom in a manic state and so I did promise that to her. Ironically, she has said she wouldn't like it but because she has been there, she would understand (a little bit)
    Last edited by m1thousand; April 9th, 2014 at 01:30 PM.

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    For me, all I have to do is imagine the eternal sorrow my death would cause my daughters. I go put my arms around them, and them me, and they give me the strength to trudge on. I don't want to pass on the ache that I live with every day, so I lie and say I'm fine, and hope they understand.
    Inspired - but too tired.

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    A friend.

    That said, it's not a formula. Some people just succumb to their despair. It's so trite, but it's the crux of the matter.

    You just have to be available as much as you think is needed, but don't confuse that with owning another man's depression.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    A friend.

    That said, it's not a formula. Some people just succumb to their despair. It's so trite, but it's the crux of the matter.

    You just have to be available as much as you think is needed, but don't confuse that with owning another man's depression.
    Pretty much this ^^

    Those who seriously consider ending their lives must first feel the finality that hopelessness provides. It can be a dark yet comforting place to some.
    Rejoice and Behold the pungency of my nuts for I have arrived!

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by whitedavo View Post
    Fearing death means that you're not ready to accept that life is hopeless. Your situation might be bleak but there's still hope or faith that you'll overcome or atleast move past.
    That's a BS statement. My life isn't bleak and I have no fear of death. Not fearing death is the realization that we will all one day die: it may be tomorrow, it may be 50 years from now.

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleheart View Post
    I think the person who goes through it with the real intent to end their life sees no way out/no way back from their situation/circumstances/state of mind, etc.

    The person who only contemplates the idea, but never actually tries probably sees some glimmer of hope or recognizes that things can change (for the better) in an instant. Also...said person may not want to hurt their loved ones, "miss out" on anything, or be afraid of a "botched" attempt.
    Not an expert but
    their mental pain must be so great that being dead is better than living.


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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    A sense of hope or purpose was enough to keep me from going to that next step. I never attempted suicide. I did think about it often at my lowest points, though. It's strange to look back on that part of my life now.

    There were so many things that I felt passionate about and I had dreams that I wanted to fulfill. I tried focusing on those and started telling myself that I deserved a chance just as much as anyone else. I made up in my mind that even if I were alone I would at least accomplish some of my other personal goals. Those same goals are a lot of what still keeps me going even in a much happier disposition.


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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    I can imagine suicide, but I can't hold the idea in my head, even in the abstract, without a powerful voice of self preservation intruding in my thoughts. Actually the instinct of self-preservation commandeers my thoughts entirely. Even just typing this, there is a "NO!" forming itself in my head.

    I imagine for those who go through with it, that voice goes quiet or is unheard.

    I can think unflinchingly of ending my life to prevent the suffering decline of dementia, or perhaps some other kinds of suffering, but even then there is a creative voice suggesting ways to cope without it having to come to that.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  30. #30
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Suicide is so stupid. Who gives a fuck about what other people think of you or who has it better than you and what not.

    More rich people kill themselves than poor anyways so being all wealthy and successful isn't all that good. Be happy for the situation that you are in and just mind your own business and let good come to good people and bad come to bad people.
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taralen View Post
    Suicide is so stupid. Who gives a fuck about what other people think of you or who has it better than you and what not.

    More rich people kill themselves than poor anyways so being all wealthy and successful isn't all that good. Be happy for the situation that you are in and just mind your own business and let good come to good people and bad come to bad people.
    Based on history and things that I have witnessed I would bet that most people care about the opinion of at least some of people around them.


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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    For those of us who live in the shadow of suicidal impulse, it can follow us like a stray dog, nipping at our heels.

    We may have successes, friends, joys, privilege, or just the opposite, but underneath it all, the temptation remains to just get out. There may be tedium that we just cannot face as year drags into decade and life seems to have moved on without us.

    I won't go into my own demons as the particulars aren't even relevant, but I have felt despair, sometimes as part of a serious depression, and sometimes as a fleeting thought, since I was about 15 years old. My life has been vastly better in many ways than my siblings or even many of my friends, but the dark moments have repeated encroached and cancelled what joy was there.

    Being strong-willed, I don't fear giving in, but it is always a threat and it causes me to reach out to those who express that angst in their posts here.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?


  34. #34
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taralen View Post
    Suicide is so stupid. Who gives a fuck about what other people think of you or who has it better than you and what not.

    More rich people kill themselves than poor anyways so being all wealthy and successful isn't all that good. Be happy for the situation that you are in and just mind your own business and let good come to good people and bad come to bad people.
    Are you sure and how do you know this ?


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  35. #35
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    Are you sure and how do you know this ?
    Well a lot of famous people aren't happy so i guess Its true.But for some reason i just get ,high on life i want to live i love things and i dont get easily depressed. I dont drink Either so when bad things happen i dont turn a bottle.

    I think i just love life.
    Last edited by mizanin66; April 9th, 2014 at 11:19 PM.

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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by mizanin66 View Post
    Well a lot of famous people aren't happy so i guess Its true.But for some reason i just get ,high on life i want to live i love things and i dont get easily depressed. I dont drink Either so when bad things happen i dont turn a bottle.

    I think i just love life.
    Well, the aren't happy ones get reported the most but the happy ones aren't news.
    So your statement could be completely wrong.


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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    While I have thought of it as a solution to inner pain, I deal with the reality that it is permanent. I also find that tomorrow is better, there will be a tomorrow until nature runs my clock out.

  38. #38
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    I have never been in a position where I was seriously contemplating suicide but I have thought about it and I get an instant terror inside....

    I am not afraid of death but I am terrified of having to come back and repeat this specific leg in my soul's journey again. I am also terrified that I would not be able to join my soul group or hold them back if they have to wait for me.....and that is as far as I get.

    The first part of my life this time was pure hell. I do NOT want to repeat it.

    Of course...that is my definite deciding factor not to even consider it but it is very much about my spiritual beliefs which are strong within me and my reason would not work for people who did not believe as I do.

  39. #39
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Viewing our ordeals in the clear light of day enables us to better understand that there is always a remedy available that our nightmarish dilemma had failed to reveal to us.....patience in the face of adversity is a wise friend always willing to open doors, and usher us into an atmosphere of calmness where we can construct the solution that resolves those matters that cause us so much anguish...

    Life is for celebrating....not for weeping over.....

  40. #40
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    Well, the aren't happy ones get reported the most but the happy ones aren't news.
    So your statement could be completely wrong.
    Evidently, English comprehension would clear this up.

    Mizanin66 didn't claim a majority of the wealthy were unhappy, but "a lot." His assertion is back up by many headlines in many countries and cultures of the scandals, misery, and downfall of this or that rich man or woman. Therefore, "a lot" have been seen to be unhappy.

    That a great majority may be happy in their comfort and wealth isn't the point. The point is that wealth is no insulator against despair. It is a human condition.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

  41. #41
    Are u haleloo ya ? Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Evidently, English comprehension would clear this up.

    Mizanin66 didn't claim a majority of the wealthy were unhappy, but "a lot." His assertion is back up by many headlines in many countries and cultures of the scandals, misery, and downfall of this or that rich man or woman. Therefore, "a lot" have been seen to be unhappy.

    That a great majority may be happy in their comfort and wealth isn't the point. The point is that wealth is no insulator against despair. It is a human condition.
    A lot of rich people ...
    Meaning not many poor people ...


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  42. #42
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    ^Suicide is never determined by the size of ones bank account....

  43. #43
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    ^Suicide is never determined by the size of ones bank account....
    I know. You should read post 35 to understand my response.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  44. #44
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    ^Your (confused) post 41 makes no sense even when factoring in post 35....I confirm that I have read every post in this thread....

  45. #45
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    ^Your (confused) post 41 makes no sense even when factoring in post 35....I confirm that I have read every post in this thread....
    Lets start at the beginning shall we.
    He said a lot of rich are unhappy.
    He meant poor people are not as unhappy ...


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  46. #46
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    Lets start at the beginning shall we.
    He said a lot of rich are unhappy.
    He meant poor people are not as unhappy ...
    No, he wrote, what he wrote....not what you believe he meant to write....

    There are those here who would say, don't place words in my mouth..

  47. #47
    Elderhostile Gay Dejavudoo's Avatar
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    A lot of rich people ...
    Meaning not many poor people ...
    Again, understanding English would be key.

    It is not a matter of "a lot" plus the rest equals 100%. It is not a majority and a minority.

    "A lot" is not intended nor equal to "most" or "a majority." It simply means "many" or "much," which are quantifiers. It means more than a few. When someone says "there are a lot of rapists in Malaysia," the meaning is that there may be hundreds, thousands, or millions. But, if a country has a population of 200,000,000 souls, the 2,000,000 is indeed "a lot" and not few, but by no means a majority or even a large percentage when one realizes it is only 1%.

    But, true to an evil desire, you have perverted a meaningful thread about compassion and suicide into a clusterfuck about wealth. Nice job. Your boss must be proud.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; April 10th, 2014 at 05:19 AM.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

  48. #48
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavudoo View Post
    Again, understanding English would be key.

    It is not a matter of "a lot" plus the rest equals 100%. It is not a majority and a minority.

    "A lot" is not intended nor equal to "most" or "a majority." It simply means "many" or "much," which are quantifiers. It means more than a few. When someone says "there are a lot of rapists in Malaysia," the meaning is that there may be hundreds, thousands, or millions. But, if a country has a population of 200,000,000 souls, the 2,000,000 is indeed "a lot" and not few, but by no means a majority or even a large percentage when one realizes it is only 1%.

    But, true to an evil desire, you have perverted a meaningful thread about compassion and suicide into a clusterfuck about wealth. Nice job. Your boss must be proud.
    Stop talking to me you evil troll.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  49. #49
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Try not to die, GH.

    If it's any consolation, planning to stay with my "roomie" for awhile in Atlanta in a month or two.

    I would so very much like to still chill with you, I promise to be a good boy.

  50. #50
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    Re: Suicide...what makes the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleheart View Post
    In your opinion...what do you think makes the difference between a person who decides to go through with it, and someone who just ponders the idea? What goes on in the former's mind that gives them that extra "push"?
    I think you have to be prone to it, some people seem to genetically be prone to it. I've never considered it. I would never unless I was ill and in horrible pain or situation.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...vior-confirmed

    A new study has found evidence that a specific gene is linked to suicidal behavior, adding to our knowledge of the many complex causes of suicide. This research may help doctors one day target the gene in prevention efforts.
    Last edited by Beachguyj; April 10th, 2014 at 07:05 AM.
    Never cease to find it strange
    How at midnight things seem hopeless
    But by dawn they've changed

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