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Thread: Vive le Quebec!

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    Vive le Quebec!

    Glad to have our friends in Quebec reinforce the desire to work within the federation of Canada. We are all stronger and richer as part of one nation.

    The easiest explanation for the Liberals sweep is that they won by default.

    The now accepted view is that the PQ campaign foundered the moment Marois lost the reigns of the referendum issue to Pierre-Karl Péladeau’s nationalist fist-pumping. The media baron, a controversial addition because of his labour politics, among other things, provoked a schism within the PQ, and put the sovereignty question front and centre, not what Marois wanted.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...e-pq-1.2601757

    I am pleased that the PQ did hang on to 30 seats, though...they are part of the balance and conscience that the province needs... and have, in the past, proven to be capable in governing.

    The reality though, is that demographics are finally against the separatistes. There are too many younger, more cosmopolitan voters and too many people who have come to Quebec to be part of french Canada, not as citizens in an experiment in independence.

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    Is a "je me souviens" in order?

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    A mountain of Poutine maybe.

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    So.... Poutine tried to annex Quebec?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Will there be sanctions?
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    I watched the Election results on CBC News Network. Andrew Chang hosted the show with a lady co host and some experts on Quebec politics. When Evan Solomon broke in with his take, I switched it to CBC Montreal and continued watching Andrew Chang and the team as they carried on with the analisis. I found it to be quite fascinating television. I am pleased it turned out the way it did. I noticed that handsome former student leader who won a seat in the last election lost his seat this time around.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Andrew Chang become the anchor of CBC's The National someday. He is quite a charming young man who is adept at his job. I know he has hosted it at least once when Peter Mansbridge was on vacation.

    Back to the Election I was rooting for the Liberals to get a majority Government and I am happy they did. I hope that Quebecers can find some more contentment at being part of Canada.
    Last edited by J. Smithson 02; April 10th, 2014 at 08:42 PM.

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    I hope we finally realise it is okay to be a united country with a few miserable separatists, and that we should just get on with it and let them be miserable.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I hope we finally realise it is okay to be a united country with a few miserable separatists, and that we should just get on with it and let them be miserable.
    LOL

    As long as it's only a few, right?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    Maybe 2 million serious separatists in a population of 35 million. Meh.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    I for one am not happy at all about the result of this election. Quebecers have elected a corrupt party, and a party that has had the power more than anyone else in the last 40 years and have brought the province down to a welfare level. Quebec has big economic and corruption problems right now, and Quebecers have elected the party who brought them there.

    There are 4-6 legitimate parties in Quebec, and the population keeps alternating between the 2 same old parties. The province in going in circles.

    As for those who think that demographics are showing that separatists are going down in numbers and will eventually disappear, we heard the same doom sayers in the 70's and then in the 80's.

    FACTS: There are 3 separatist parties in Quebec. Close to 40% of voters chose those 3 parties in 2012, and with the PQ shooting themselves in the foot (and chasing a lot of voters towards other parties including the CAQ (not one of the separatist parties)) this year, the 3 separatist parties still combined for over 33% of the votes. Just a month before the election, this percentage was in the high 40's.

    Polls in the last 10 years have shown support for sovereignty going up and down all the time. There seems to be a solid base of 30-35% for YES, a solid base of 30-35% for NO, and the rest of the population goes wherever the wind blows.

    This debate is not going away anytime soon.

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    You are mistaken. The craziness of the PQ has made it impossible to invest in Quebec and the economic decay caused by their policies and their xenophobic political dream has cost all of Canada and most of all Quebec.

    And you can't be angry with Quebecers if they turn away from six fringe parties who think they are entitled to step into power instead of earning it one vote at a time. Quebecers have proven to be reasonable people in two referendums and most of their governing choices since la Révolution tranquille, and if they reject these other parties now it is only because they have not met the test of providing a credible alternative.

    I'm glad to see the separatists separate into all these different parties you mention. Hopefully every member will separate into his own party.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    ...and you are wrong about the demographics.

    Jaques Parizeau realized quite rightly that the last opportunity for separation was missed in the failed referendum....the influx of immigrants and the dying out of the less educated rural hardcore separatistes would forever change the balance in favour of Quebec remaining a grumbling elder brother always talking about leaving home....but secretly glad for the company and the security of the family home.

    Quebec and Canada would both be much the poorer for the destruction of Confederation.

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    You are mistaken. The craziness of the PQ has made it impossible to invest in Quebec and the economic decay caused by their policies and their xenophobic political dream has cost all of Canada and most of all Quebec.

    And you can't be angry with Quebecers if they turn away from six fringe parties who think they are entitled to step into power instead of earning it one vote at a time. Quebecers have proven to be reasonable people in two referendums and most of their governing choices since la Révolution tranquille, and if they reject these other parties now it is only because they have not met the test of providing a credible alternative.

    I'm glad to see the separatists separate into all these different parties you mention. Hopefully every member will separate into his own party.
    I am angry, not because the PQ lost.. but because the people chose to replace them with the liberals. In 2012, three parties had close to the same amount of the popular vote.. the PQ, the liberals, and the CAQ. The CAQ has never held power, do not want a referendum, and want to put Québec back on its feet economically. The PQ and PLQ constantly steal some of their ideas and make it their own.

    The liberals are corrupt, everyone knows that. Why vote for them when there are alternatives? simple, when people are scared, they run back to the liberals. The campaign played itself out when anglo media everywhere in Canada (and in Montreal) made their headlines ''PKP and the PQ are going to break up Canada''.

    I will say that i did not vote for the PQ this last election, but come on.. give it a rest with the constant accusations of xenophobia. They are not racist and they are not xenophobes. Complete separation of church and state was what was to be accomplished with the charter.

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    ...and you are wrong about the demographics.

    Jaques Parizeau realized quite rightly that the last opportunity for separation was missed in the failed referendum....the influx of immigrants and the dying out of the less educated rural hardcore separatistes would forever change the balance in favour of Quebec remaining a grumbling elder brother always talking about leaving home....but secretly glad for the company and the security of the family home.

    Quebec and Canada would both be much the poorer for the destruction of Confederation.
    you are right that Parizeau realized that the chance had been missed.. and for the last decade, 50000 + immigrants are flocking into Québec, and we know that immigrants and anglophones do NOT vote PQ.

    However, i think you are mistaken on thinking that the separation option is dying.

    A young party like Québec solidaire promotes sovereignty, but does so differently. Sovereignty is not exclusively reserved for french white folks. If proper integration happens in Québec (instead of the the multicultural idea that`s promoted elsewhere in CAnada and encourages people to form guettos and not integrate), then immigrants become Québecers and actively participate in debates and in building the future of this province/nation. I believe that it`s quite telling that after all those years with 50k+ immigrants coming to live here, that polls still sometimes indicate support for sovereignty at 40+ per cent. Note that 1 month before the 95 referendum, support for referendum was slightly under 40 per cent.

    As i said earlier, doomsayers keep saying the separatist movement is dying.. they have been saying this since the 70's. Fact is, not all separatists necessarily vote for separatist parties.. i am a prime example this year. An election and a referendum are two different things.

    One last point. People keep using the argument that Canada and Québec would not benefit economically from separation. We don`t know this.
    We can speculate, but we can`t predict how it would be. Francois Legault had once calculated the finances of a separated Québec, and results were quite positive. What he could not calculate (and we cannot predict) is how the rest of the world would react, and how investors and economy would react. We can be pessimist and say they`d all freak out, but the reality of business is that investors and businessmen go where there`s money. Québec has all the ressources to be able to live well.. but is currently in a precarious position because of bad decisions by both the PQ and the liberals in the last 20 years.

    The economic uncertainty will dissuade people from going ahead, but for some, it won`t. And if Québec ever gets back on its feet economically, the option will look a bit better for some.
    Last edited by MetalSteff; May 8th, 2014 at 04:35 PM.

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    Do you also think when cAnada does well economically then it helps Quebecers realise "oh good - let's build canada together. It is good for all of us."
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    I think anyone called "Bloc Quebecois" has a huge penis, a canoe, and possibly a beaver pelt.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    I think anyone called "Bloc Quebecois" has a huge penis, a canoe, and possibly a beaver pelt.
    Well it's kind of funny that they're separatists because that would make them a pretty typical Canadian.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalSteff View Post
    you are right that Parizeau realized that the chance had been missed.. and for the last decade, 50000 + immigrants are flocking into Québec, and we know that immigrants and anglophones do NOT vote PQ.

    However, i think you are mistaken on thinking that the separation option is dying.

    A young party like Québec solidaire promotes sovereignty, but does so differently. Sovereignty is not exclusively reserved for french white folks. If proper integration happens in Québec (instead of the the multicultural idea that`s promoted elsewhere in CAnada and encourages people to form guettos and not integrate), then immigrants become Québecers and actively participate in debates and in building the future of this province/nation. I believe that it`s quite telling that after all those years with 50k+ immigrants coming to live here, that polls still sometimes indicate support for sovereignty at 40+ per cent. Note that 1 month before the 95 referendum, support for referendum was slightly under 40 per cent.

    As i said earlier, doomsayers keep saying the separatist movement is dying.. they have been saying this since the 70's. Fact is, not all separatists necessarily vote for separatist parties.. i am a prime example this year. An election and a referendum are two different things.

    One last point. People keep using the argument that Canada and Québec would not benefit economically from separation. We don`t know this.
    We can speculate, but we can`t predict how it would be. Francois Legault had once calculated the finances of a separated Québec, and results were quite positive. What he could not calculate (and we cannot predict) is how the rest of the world would react, and how investors and economy would react. We can be pessimist and say they`d all freak out, but the reality of business is that investors and businessmen go where there`s money. Québec has all the ressources to be able to live well.. but is currently in a precarious position because of bad decisions by both the PQ and the liberals in the last 20 years.

    The economic uncertainty will dissuade people from going ahead, but for some, it won`t. And if Québec ever gets back on its feet economically, the option will look a bit better for some.
    I believe the calculation was based on Quebec defaulting on it's share of the national debt.

    All I know is that I'm in Montreal and there is no separatiste yearning here.....and all of the non-quebec born immigrants that I am speaking with identify with Quebec as part of confederation with the rest of Canada.

    The reason that I'm saying that demographics are against separation is that the baby boom generation which totally drove the separatist argument forward is now likely to give up the fight...quite literally as we die off.

    I think it would be interesting to see Quebec separate...but it ain't going to happen.

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Well it's kind of funny that they're separatists because that would make them a pretty typical Canadian.
    Tell me Bankside, do you wear a funny fur hat?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I bet you're a Mountie, or a moose.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    I believe the calculation was based on Quebec defaulting on it's share of the national debt.

    All I know is that I'm in Montreal and there is no separatiste yearning here.....and all of the non-quebec born immigrants that I am speaking with identify with Quebec as part of confederation with the rest of Canada.

    The reason that I'm saying that demographics are against separation is that the baby boom generation which totally drove the separatist argument forward is now likely to give up the fight...quite literally as we die off.

    I think it would be interesting to see Quebec separate...but it ain't going to happen.
    You are wrong about Legault`s calculation. It was taking into account:

    1. The portion of Canada`s debt, but also..

    2. The portion of Canada`s belongings which Québec paid.

    Both go together. You can`t ask Québec to pay for a portion of the debt, if you don`t allow them to keep their portion of what they paid for.

    And i understand about Montréalers, i lived in both Montréal and the Outaouais region, and they are the 2 regions that are the most federalist. (for obvious reasons)
    That being said, you cannot assume the whole province thinks the same way as people in those 2 areas.

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Maybe 2 million serious separatists in a population of 35 million. Meh.
    Kinda like Texas.....

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Vive le Quebec!

    You won't find 2 million separatists in Texas. All Exxon has to do and voila - no separatists. As we have seen last time.

    Fact is, that whole Perry thing was staged and there was never any "movement" for secession.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You might have better luck deeper South however.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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