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Thread: Are you pro life?

      
   
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    Are you pro life?

    IMO abortion should only be allowed on grounds that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve serious risk to the life or grave injury to the health, whether physical or mental, of the pregnant woman.


    Discuss.

    This topic has no right or wrong answer and you know it...


    a topic that is perhaps the most controversial in history....except of course the death penalty.

    But some argue Abortion is MURDER.....


    BLOODY MURDER.


    Please keep the discussion civilized. Troublemakers will be dealt with.
    Your post comments are forwarded to the CIA.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    What about the serious risk to the child, after birth whether physical or mental, due to genetics, or the mothers social lifestyle?
    Would you argue that quality outweighs quantity, or that all life is sacred?

    You are right, it has no wrong or right answer, just the most appropriate one for each and every case.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Pro choice for me.

    If parents can't support a child, or the kid runs the risk of being unloved because it was unwanted and its parents cannot overlook that*, abortion should be an option.

    -d-
    *OF course this is difficult to quantify or even predict; it is very much something which might be perfectly clear in hindsight only
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    1. Pro-choice.

    2. You should have made this Thread On-Topic.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    I like turtles.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Everyone is entitled to have their own personal and private opinion on it.

    Having posed the premise that there is no right or wrong answer, why do you care what other people think about your opinion on it?

    You know full well that this thread is going to turn into a shit storm.

    Feeling bored today?

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    I am for women having the choice to continue a pregnancy or not; exactly as I believe that I have the right to terminate my own life when I so wish.

    But it is complicated; I would prefer that they never got pregnant in the first place; I would prefer that they follow the pregnancy to term and put the child up for adoption; where does the right of the father come into play should he wish to keep the child but the mother decides to abort.

    But then I am not a women so do I have the right to oblige them to apply to my convictions?

    I suppose what I really think is that it is a necessary evil that women should have the right to use should they decide to.
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    I am pro choice but abortion should be the last option after a serious discussion with family members.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    I'm generally pro-choice before the third trimester.

    I'm generally anti-late term abortions except in a case where the mother's health may be at risk.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    How to put it...I'm pro-choice IF life is the default and preferred answer. There should be an encouragement to choose life unless there is a good reason to not too. Medical reasons are obvious, once you get beyond those though it should get harder. You can't afford the child? There are folks out there who can who would love to adopt. Abortion on demand opens all sorts of ethical questions that the pro-choice movement would rather ignore. "I wanted a boy instead of girl. Kill it" "He going to be genetically predisposed to be Gay? Kill it." A fetus is not a wart despite the talking points, you can't get around the fact that baring complications in time that wart will become a Human being. In that sense an abortion is a type of temporal murder unless you can show the child would not have survived anyway.
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    ^Or would have survived with devastating medical/mental incapacity's that would render "life" without any quality whatsoever.
    These decisions are taking everyday, both by Doctors, the courts and parents who are fully informed of all hurdles that they will endure.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Hell no.

    "You may only be one person to the world, but you may also be the world to one person"
    - anonymous quote.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    So how exactly do you plan on dealing with trouble makers when your post already suggests you're one of them?
    "Confront the power of forming,

    Killing your problems of evil..."

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Can anyone who has followed and understood the issue define the meaning of 'pro-life' or 'pro-choice' or whatever the going terminology is? Unless you have a definition of each, it's hard to gauge from these pithy terms whether they are misnomers or designed to be misleading.


  15. #15

    Re: Are you pro life?

    I'm pro-death.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    I am one of ten children born into extreme poverty where we often were not fed and went to bed with nothing in our bellies since our noon time meals at school. Our parents were abusive drunks who remained abusive even after sobriety. Much shame and embarrassment came with the poverty--never being able to do what other kids did. I took shop class in junior high school where we were required to buy wood and other supplies for our projects. My father tore a piece of wood off and old out-building and told me to make something from it at school. The teacher laughed in my face as did some students. I will never forget how awful that felt, especially since I was the kid who always tried to be invisible. So, we would be the children who would be classified as having no quality of life.

    My husband and I have adopted 4 times. We actually went through the pregnancy with our 4th. Abortion was one of the options available to the mother with the biological father pressuring her for that option. She met with a counselor who advised her to abort, too. But she just couldn't do it. With open adoption, the mother actually plays a role in choosing the adoptive family. Along with pictures, we provided a DVD of our homelife with our other children for her to see. This is not an uncommon practice for those looking to adopt. When she chose us, she got no support with her decision from anyone she knew. She is still one of the bravest people I know. The gift of life she gave us is without measure. Not only did we get to make decisions during her pregnancy, we were in the delivery room when he was born.
    Every day, every day, every day, I am so thankful for this 3 year old bundle of energy bebopping through our lives, just as I am with all of them, but he is the only one we actually saw born.

    I am pro-life and believe all life is sacred.
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  18. #18

    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthson View Post
    I am one of ten children born into extreme poverty where we often were not fed and went to bed with nothing in our bellies since our noon time meals at school. Our parents were abusive drunks who remained abusive even after sobriety. Much shame and embarrassment came with the poverty--never being able to do what other kids did. I took shop class in junior high school where we were required to buy wood and other supplies for our projects. My father tore a piece of wood off and old out-building and told me to make something from it at school. The teacher laughed in my face as did some students. I will never forget how awful that felt, especially since I was the kid who always tried to be invisible. So, we would be the children who would be classified as having no quality of life.

    My husband and I have adopted 4 times. We actually went through the pregnancy with our 4th. Abortion was one of the options available to the mother with the biological father pressuring her for that option. She met with a counselor who advised her to abort, too. But she just couldn't do it. With open adoption, the mother actually plays a role in choosing the adoptive family. Along with pictures, we provided a DVD of our homelife with our other children for her to see. This is not an uncommon practice for those looking to adopt. When she chose us, she got no support with her decision from anyone she knew. She is still one of the bravest people I know. The gift of life she gave us is without measure. Not only did we get to make decisions during her pregnancy, we were in the delivery room when he was born.
    Every day, every day, every day, I am so thankful for this 3 year old bundle of energy bebopping through our lives, just as I am with all of them, but he is the only one we actually saw born.

    I am pro-life and believe all life is sacred.
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    I am pro-mind your business.

    I don't believe any woman comes to the decision to end her pregnancy lightly.

    I believe a woman should make this decision herself, without outsiders imposing their will on her.

    Whatever her reasons may be, she as a individual should make the decision, because she has to live with the outcome.

    Forcing someone else to carry a pregnancy to term because of your own moral judgements is just wrong.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    ^all life is sacred, not all life is salvageable. as for you being the kid with no quality of life, could you think for yourself? Could you communicate with others your personal thoughts and feelings?
    Were you able to dress and feed yourself? Were you able to better your own personal circumstances?
    My guess to all thee questions is a resounding yes. Having no quality of life, means being fed, bathed, soiled clothing changed, relying on machines for your existence. To me that is not life, that is a living hell.
    I too have a horrendous time with this particular issue. My way of trying to overcome any guilt, is to explain, sometimes in very graphic detail the problems that parents will face. If after this they decide to carry on with the gestation, then i give them my all.

    For #17.

  21. #21
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthson View Post
    I am one of ten children born into extreme poverty where we often were not fed and went to bed with nothing in our bellies since our noon time meals at school. Our parents were abusive drunks who remained abusive even after sobriety. Much shame and embarrassment came with the poverty--never being able to do what other kids did. I took shop class in junior high school where we were required to buy wood and other supplies for our projects. My father tore a piece of wood off and old out-building and told me to make something from it at school. The teacher laughed in my face as did some students. I will never forget how awful that felt, especially since I was the kid who always tried to be invisible. So, we would be the children who would be classified as having no quality of life.

    My husband and I have adopted 4 times. We actually went through the pregnancy with our 4th. Abortion was one of the options available to the mother with the biological father pressuring her for that option. She met with a counselor who advised her to abort, too. But she just couldn't do it. With open adoption, the mother actually plays a role in choosing the adoptive family. Along with pictures, we provided a DVD of our homelife with our other children for her to see. This is not an uncommon practice for those looking to adopt. When she chose us, she got no support with her decision from anyone she knew. She is still one of the bravest people I know. The gift of life she gave us is without measure. Not only did we get to make decisions during her pregnancy, we were in the delivery room when he was born.
    Every day, every day, every day, I am so thankful for this 3 year old bundle of energy bebopping through our lives, just as I am with all of them, but he is the only one we actually saw born.

    I am pro-life and believe all life is sacred.
    This is a heavy and troubling tale, and certainly something for all of us to think about.

    However, since I have a touch of the chaotic about me, I will ask you this: When you were growing up and found out about abortion, did you ever wonder if your parents had considered it for you? Did you wish they did?

    And further than that, if someone who went through what you did but turned out differently - in that s/he would continue the cycle of abuse they had experienced, and would not give their child/ren up for adoption - would you advise them to keep the baby or abort it?

    I appreciate that these questions may not be entirely fair; I trust that you know I ask because I am genuinely interested in your reply, not to stir the pot.

    -d-
    Last edited by blackbeltninja; April 2nd, 2014 at 07:00 AM.
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    I am pro-mind your business.

    I don't believe any woman comes to the decision to end her pregnancy lightly.

    I believe a woman should make this decision herself, without outsiders imposing their will on her.
    I will put it to you that many men who are involved in the decision making do not take it lightly, either. Certainly not all, but I'd guess probably more than any of us would believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    Whatever her reasons may be, she as a individual should make the decision, because she has to live with the outcome.

    Forcing someone else to carry a pregnancy to term because of your own moral judgements is just wrong.
    Agreed on both counts.
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Pro Life is a political idea that seems radical as I am not against all medical abortions, some sadly are necessary. I am against abortion as a means of birth control and always have been---but I realize it's easy for me to say, as I don't know jack shit about a womans biology---but woman need education, they need morning after pills, they need birth control, they need to take control of their bodies by making sure they are pregnant early --within weeks not months. Of course men need to take responsibility too--but unfortunately woman have to take the main control of their bodies by avoiding getting pregnant.

  24. #24

    Re: Are you pro life?

    I ride both sides of the fence. While I think life is sacred once it exists, I think people should get a better grip on birth control and stop pumping out kids they either don't want, or can't afford. Abortions should be a last ditch extreme option, not used as a casual birth control.

    Sometimes it's hard for me to feel too sorry for some of these third world countries who scream about not being able to feed their kids, yet aren't smart enough to stop having them. To some extent, they're creating their own problems.
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by star-warrior View Post
    Can anyone who has followed and understood the issue define the meaning of 'pro-life' or 'pro-choice' or whatever the going terminology is? Unless you have a definition of each, it's hard to gauge from these pithy terms whether they are misnomers or designed to be misleading.
    Yes, "pro life" is misleading.
    They have no sympathy for the death penalty which "pro death"


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    Re: Are you pro life?

    ^A very astute observation.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    It's none of my business. Just like who I love and sleep with is no ones business. It's the womans and fathers decision if he is in the picture. This world would be a far better place if everyone would just mind their own business and stop trying to make people live their lives like they think it should be led.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Humans are more or less just weeds anymore. Of course weeds are "pro-life". That's how they spread as an invasive species. They have a heartfelt belief in their uniqueness and their destiny. The reality, though, is that individual weeds aren't that unique. They're merely successful at reproducing.

    People should have a carefree attitude toward abortion. I believe all the worry and anxiety around it is misplaced and founded on the incorrect idea that zygotes, embryos and early-term fetuses somehow have 'minds' or 'souls'. They don't.

    If anything, abortion is a sacred virtue because it is an act of altruism that benefits the world at large. Stopping another mass-extinguisher from contributing to the cycle of destruction is a good thing.

    So I guess you could say I'm pro-choice.

  29. #29

    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    I am pro-mind your business.
    Pretty much this.

  30. #30
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    I am pro-choice.

    Here's my take. If you're pro-life, then go ahead and ban abortion. But if you're going to do that, you have to make sure that there is extra welfare, extra affordable education, plentiful well-paying work (enough to raise children well) with enough leave time to take care of the kids, and extra resources in place to help develop that life. And that's without even beginning to consider potential law enforcement costs that could result from kids growing up in a less than optimal environment.

    There's no consistency in these proposals. These anti-abortion measures are pro "forming of life", and not pro "maintaining life". If you're gonna make women have their children, you have to make sure they have the resources available to help them raise good children. The fact that Republican governments (like that in Wisconsin) drastically cut welfare and and social services, and yet insist on having pro-life laws is problematic, and it could very easily cause a further social and economic downturn.

    Ultimately, the cost of having a child that someone may not want is FAR greater to the individual, and to society as a whole, than it would be to allow abortions to happen.

  31. #31

    Re: Are you pro life?

    Remember that the numbers of abortions are so large that they change the demographics of entire civilizations, requiring the importation of huge numbers of immigrants. There are estimates, for instance, that Britain will have a majority of Muslims by 20050, as I recall. They exact dates and numbers are not important. The point is that western civilization is doomed if present trends continue. In effect, the governments of the west are replacing the people and cultures of their countries.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Pro-Choice. Absolutely pro-choice. I used to go to Planned Parenthood to get their voter guide. I will never vote for any candidate who is not 100% pro choice.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by star-warrior View Post
    Can anyone who has followed and understood the issue define the meaning of 'pro-life' or 'pro-choice' or whatever the going terminology is? Unless you have a definition of each, it's hard to gauge from these pithy terms whether they are misnomers or designed to be misleading.
    There is pro-choice and anti-choice.

    Pro-life is often a lie. Ask the pro-life person if they support the death penalty.

  34. #34
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Remember that the numbers of abortions are so large that they change the demographics of entire civilizations, requiring the importation of huge numbers of immigrants. There are estimates, for instance, that Britain will have a majority of Muslims by 20050, as I recall. They exact dates and numbers are not important. The point is that western civilization is doomed if present trends continue. In effect, the governments of the west are replacing the people and cultures of their countries.
    Unlikely for migrant groups predictably fit in to the habits of their host nation:

    Last census figures:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...United_Kingdom

    Religion Number %
    Christian 33,243,175 59.28%
    No religion 14,097,229 25.14%
    Muslim 2,706,066 4.83%
    Hindu 816,633 1.46%
    Sikh 423,158 0.75%
    Jewish 263,346 0.47%
    Buddhist 247,743 0.44%
    Other religion 240,530 0.43%
    Not stated 4,038,032 7.2%
    Total religious 38,181,181 68.09%

  35. #35

    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Unlikely for migrant groups predictably fit in to the habits of their host nation:...
    What do you mean?

    Migrants in the UK will start drinking tea? or start taking Birth Control tablets?

    The Census says

    2001 1.6 million Muslims in England/Wales or 3% of the population
    2011 2.7 million Muslims in England/Wales or 4.8% of the population

    That's an exponential increase.

  36. #36

    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Unlikely for migrant groups predictably fit in to the habits of their host nation:

    Last census figures:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...United_Kingdom

    Religion Number %
    Christian 33,243,175 59.28%
    No religion 14,097,229 25.14%
    Muslim 2,706,066 4.83%
    Hindu 816,633 1.46%
    Sikh 423,158 0.75%
    Jewish 263,346 0.47%
    Buddhist 247,743 0.44%
    Other religion 240,530 0.43%
    Not stated 4,038,032 7.2%
    Total religious 38,181,181 68.09%
    I spent Three weeks in England last summer. The women wear Muslim headress and many cover all but the eyes. They want the benefits but want nothing to do with the British.

  37. #37
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I spent Three weeks in England last summer. The women wear Muslim headress and many cover all but the eyes. They want the benefits but want nothing to do with the British.
    That you say, so......your expertise and research studies are duly noted...


  38. #38

    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by eastofeden View Post
    There is pro-choice and anti-choice.

    Pro-life is often a lie. Ask the pro-life person if they support the death penalty.
    Many do oppose the death penalty. Ask liberals why they see nothing wrong wth sucking the brains out of late term babies, but get all weepy when a vicious muderer is executed. Conservatives say execute the killers, not the innocent babies.

  39. #39
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I spent Three weeks in England last summer. The women wear Muslim headress and many cover all but the eyes. They want the benefits but want nothing to do with the British.
    You say "they" as though these women were one entity and you...of all people...speak for them

    Funny...I know some Muslim woman and none of them fit your bullshit mold.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    What do you mean?

    Migrants in the UK will start drinking tea? or start taking Birth Control tablets?

    The Census says

    2001 1.6 million Muslims in England/Wales or 3% of the population
    2011 2.7 million Muslims in England/Wales or 4.8% of the population

    That's an exponential increase.
    In ten years there has been a 1.8 pct increase...with most Muslims cultural Muslims, just as most Christians are cultural Christians.

    Second generation migrants predictably adopt the habits of their host nation.....here we are discussing family size

  41. #41
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Many do oppose the death penalty. Ask liberals why they see nothing wrong wth sucking the brains out of late term babies, but get all weepy when a vicious muderer is executed. Conservatives say execute the killers, not the innocent babies.


    Pro-Choice does NOT indicate Pro-Abortion. Period. It doesn't even address the issue of abortion. That is for the individual women to address.

    Pro-Life is...uh.. pro-life... and so many people who claim to be pro-life are full of shit. If you change your title to "pro-some lives" then it would be what it is.

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    The greater evil is outlawing abortion...and returning society to the back street abortionist with all its horrors.

    The ethics debate on abortion is never so black, and white that one may say that the opposing argument is in grievous error.

  43. #43
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Thanks for that.

    A lot of people seem to miss the distinction.

  44. #44

    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by eastofeden View Post
    ......I know some Muslim woman ...
    Are they US or UK? He was talking about the UK.

  45. #45
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    Are they US or UK? He was talking about the UK.
    In California.

    It only takes a quick trip to google to figure out that his characterization is full of shit...

    http://www.onislam.net/english/news/...n-honored.html

    This is a Muslim women in the UK

    This is what he said

    The women wear Muslim headress and many cover all but the eyes. They want the benefits but want nothing to do with the British.

    He lied. That happens when you are xenophobic...usually everytime you make another xenophobic claim..

  46. #46
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    I'm pro-baby-murder, and I don't mind being labelled as such.

    Lex

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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    I'm pro-baby-murder, and I don't mind being labelled as such.

    Lex
    I'm happy that you were not one of those babies

  48. #48

    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by eastofeden View Post
    .his characterization is full of …
    ...This is what he said…
    He lied..
    I think you're obsessing over him instead of the matter at hand.

  49. #49
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    I think you're obsessing over him instead of the matter at hand.
    No...I don't even know him (OK...I know "of him" but I don't usually pay any attention to him or his posts). My response was to him...you pointed out what he was talking about so of course I referred to him in my response to you.

  50. #50
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    Re: Are you pro life?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    I'm happy that you were not one of those babies
    My sister was supposed to be. At the last second, she wasn't. I'm happy she wasn't. That hasn't changed my opinion. Nor hers.

    Lex

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