JustUsBoys.com gay porn forum

logo

Page 1 of 3 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 118
  1. #1
    Virgin radiance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    43

    Code of Conduct

    Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    First of all I want to say I am Muslim. In religious point of view I am committing a huge crime for desiring man and woman both but its not the most heinous sin in Islam. Allah ('The God' in Arabic) said he will forgive every sin if he wishes to but he will never forgive the sin of associating partner with him (Shirk). He will also give heaven to Jews and Christians if they don't join any partner with Allah but I know in Islamic point of view Christians join Jesus Christ with Allah (God -The father for Christians). Arab Christians and Christians in some other countries do call the God Allah. Jesus is son of God in Christianity but Jesus is Prophet of God in Islam. That's the main difference between Islam and Christianity in it's principle.

    Prophet Muhammad may not be worshiped by Muslims directly like Christians worship Jesus Christ but in true sense he is no less than a deity like figure for Muslims although its forbidden to join partner with Allah. There is a fear of worshiping Prophet Muhammad that's why there is a ban on depiction of him.


    Now let put all these basic facts aside. Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics? These two historical figures are the most influential religious figures in human history. That's why I am asking.

    If you read Bible, Jesus said 'Kill both the men who sleep together.' Christianity is most harsh towards homosexuals. Islam also condemns homosexuality but in Quran there was no real punishment prescribed. Allah just said you have transgressed enough. 'O Muhammad', punish the sodomites and if they repents then leave them. But in Hadith (secondary source) Prophet Muhammad said kill the sodomites. Since there was no real punishment prescribed in Quran most Muslims don't support killing homosexuals. Hadiths are not taken as seriously as Quran. Hadiths are sayings of the prophet but these hadiths were written 200 years after the Prophet's death. So nobody really sure about which hadith is authentic and which are false and fabricated but if its authentic hadith then I am upset.

    I am hugely against such inhumane punishment. It is not in our control that we are gay or bisexual. Why is God so angry with us? Why he wants to see millions of gays, lesbians, bisexuals in the world to be executed?
    Last edited by radiance; January 23rd, 2014 at 04:04 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Did Jesus really say that? According to my knowledge, he said nothing about same gendered sexual and/or romantic relationships.
    Not personally anyways.

  3. #3
    Virgin radiance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    43

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Bible

    "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."

    Quran

    "As for the two who are guilty of indecency (Lewdness) from among you, men, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.”
    Last edited by radiance; January 23rd, 2014 at 04:42 PM.

  4. #4
    JUB Addict
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,806

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    religion was formulated to control people that were doing all kinds of crazy stuff--like having sex for fun rather than to have a million kids---and all kinds of bad stuff like murder, rape, robbery etc--a Muslim woman told me that all sex must include the possibility of childbirth---therefore sex with a man for the pleasure of it is a no no. We have religious freaks in this country who think the same way---this is why they are against homosexuals---you know anal sex is fun and that is a BIG NO in most fundamentalist religion. I'd tell you to forget about religion as it causes more death and pain then any atheist could ever dream up---and in countries where there I'd say come here and enter the 21st century and live a happy moral life without religion.

  5. #5
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Beware the deepity.
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Posts
    17,724
    Blog Entries
    2

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    There is nothing wrong with desire, and there is nothing wrong to share in that desire with another man who feels the same way.

    Let that be your guide and your measure.

  6. #6
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Over the Hedge and Under the Hill
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Married
    Posts
    3,424

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Christ says nothing about homosexuality or same sex marriage. The quote you cite is from the old testament which predates Christ and Christianity. There are passages in the new testament (the basis for Christianity) interpreted as condemnation of homosexuality, but they are not from Christ but from the writings of some of the Apostles, specifically Paul.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  7. #7
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jawja
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    22,779
    Blog Entries
    14

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exoctic89 View Post
    I thought these forums were a no flame zone- I don’t know if you’re aware of this but there is such a thing as religious LGBTQ in these forums, so, just saying “God doesn’t exist” isn’t a very fruitful or productive or helpful answer. It isn’t even an answer to the person’s question. It’s an opinion.
    Members are welcome to express constructive opinions with respect to the various formal religions; however, everyone should appreciate that a diversity of opinion exists and therefore refrain from “flaming” other members who may sponsor different affinities or beliefs. The optimum outcome probably embraces a sharing of opinion and/or experience relative to whatever belief-system is being discussed, along with a healthy respect for those who present alternative viewpoints.

  8. #8
    inclusivist
    zoltanspawn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    5,571
    Blog Entries
    8

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Hey Radiance. I think you might find some interesting discussion in this thread:

    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/thre...ve-without-sex

    It doesn't specifically address your question, but it touches on the general theme. If you read over it, please come back here and report any of your thoughts.

    If nothing else, you may find Muslims for Progressive Values of interest: http://mpvusa.org/ There are thoughtful, diligent inquiries into the nature of same-sex love to be read over here.
    Scimitar Oryx
    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

  9. #9
    Virgin radiance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    43

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Christ says nothing about homosexuality or same sex marriage. The quote you cite is from the old testament which predates Christ and Christianity. There are passages in the new testament (the basis for Christianity) interpreted as condemnation of homosexuality, but they are not from Christ but from the writings of some of the Apostles, specifically Paul.
    So Christians don't follow old testament? I know Christianity condemns sodomites and Bible orders its followers to kill homosexuals. It has some explicit verses to kill homosexuals / sodomites.

    There is no narration in most believed to be authentic Sunni Hadith (Bukhari and Muslim) about Prophet Muhammad ordering killing homosexuals. The hadiths prescribing killing is from other Hadith books. Muslims don't take Hadiths that much seriously but Quran does say to punish homosexuals but also say if they repent then leave them alone. Allah is merciful. So I doubt the prophet actually ordered to kill homosexuals.
    Last edited by radiance; January 23rd, 2014 at 10:40 PM.

  10. #10
    Virgin radiance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    43

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    I wonder why God needs blood of homosexuals. Christians believe Jesus is son of God and he is God in flesh. So God's word is Jesus's own word according to Christians.

    Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be killed; their blood will be on their own heads."

  11. #11
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Over the Hedge and Under the Hill
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Married
    Posts
    3,424

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by radiance View Post
    So Christians don't follow old testament? I know Christianity condemns sodomites and Bible orders its followers to kill homosexuals. It has some explicit verses to kill homosexuals / sodomites.

    There is no narration in most believed to be authentic Sunni Hadith (Bukhari and Muslim) about Prophet Muhammad ordering killing homosexuals. The hadiths prescribing killing is from other Hadith books. Muslims don't take Hadiths that much seriously but Quran does say to punish homosexuals but also say if they repent then leave them alone. Allah is merciful. So I doubt the prophet actually ordered to kill homosexuals.
    They do and they don't, in that Christ's coming and sacrifice for the sins of man results in a major change in man's status with God. I imagine some of the more religious scholars about could explain it better than I. The Old Testament represents the old laws and teachings that were in affect before this change. Afterwards some of the laws carried through, some were changed, some were discontinued as no longer necessary. The Old Testament is now essentially background history leading up to the Christ's coming and its application to the Christian era must be viewed in the context of Christ's teachings.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  12. #12

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Someone above suggested it is "flaming" to say 'God' doesn't exist? Well, why is that. IF a 'God' like the one in the Bible who is a tyrant is often quoted as saying gays are bad etc etc why is THAT not flaming to a spiritual person who doesn't believe that? I am not, by saying this to try and get someone reported or anything, because I'm for free speech, but am just saying it works both ways.

    Now to radiance~~#From the heart, I urge you to consider that you CAN be spiritual without following fear-based mindcontrol beliefs. That is what these Abrahamic beliefs are. Exactly that. They threaten the believer with punishment and thus this incites fear UNLESS you do what they tell you to do. They drill this dogma into you since you are very little, and then it takes over your psyche and then if you have children you do the same abuse to them, and on and on.
    In the secular world they do the same. FEAR-BASED MINDCONTROL. To come out of it you have to begin questioning, which you are doing, and KEEP doing it...
    Last edited by ludolfo; January 24th, 2014 at 04:37 AM. Reason: en-bold-ening

  13. #13
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Austin
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Open Relationship
    Posts
    9,282

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    This question is completely irrelevant. Both religions ARE homophobic to one degree or another no only in their doctrine, but most especially in practice. It's moot what Christ thought about anything no matter how much Christians say it is. They do what they please, and justify in in the name of Christ whatever that happens to be. Same as Islam and most religions.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  14. #14
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by radiance View Post
    If you read Bible, Jesus said [B]'Kill both the men who sleep together.'
    Not only did Jesus never say any such thing, He never said a single word about being gay. In fact, a decent argument can be made that He approved of committed loving relationships between two men (the centurion and his 'servant' may have actually been lovers -- depending on one's translation of certain words).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  15. #15
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Christ says nothing about homosexuality or same sex marriage. The quote you cite is from the old testament which predates Christ and Christianity. There are passages in the new testament (the basis for Christianity) interpreted as condemnation of homosexuality, but they are not from Christ but from the writings of some of the Apostles, specifically Paul.
    Besides which, there's reasonable evidence for believing that at least one of the words translated as "homosexual" means no such thing.

    And FWIW, any attempt to make a case from the Bible that sex has to entail the possibility of procreation falls apart on two items: that God set a limit to population when He said to "fill the Earth", and that the Song of Solomon speaks of sex for pleasure.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  16. #16
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exoctic89 View Post
    I thought these forums were a no flame zone- I don’t know if you’re aware of this but there is such a thing as religious LGBTQ in these forums, so, just saying “God doesn’t exist” isn’t a very fruitful or productive or helpful answer. It isn’t even an answer to the person’s question. It’s an opinion.
    It's also a statement of faith: the proposition "man created God" cannot be substantiated.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  17. #17
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbance View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed]
    [Text: Removed] your statement is false.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbance View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed]
    Logically irrelevant -- that some people use a document or set of documents in order to justify their hate does not invalidate the document.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbance View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed]
    Please present evidence that there are any "self-righteous fools" on this board.
    Last edited by opinterph; March 6th, 2014 at 09:09 PM. Reason: No Flame Zone; removed verbiage quoted from another poster

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  18. #18
    Inactive
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    248

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    I don't know anything about Muhammad. But out of the tens of thousands of verses in the Bible, that Leviticus verse is the ONLY time homosexuality gets mentioned in the whole thing. Even then, you're talking about a book thousands of years old that went through shit-tons of edits and translations, so it's even questionable if that is the "Word of God" instead of some random asshole's insert.

    So...no, Jesus didn't talk about homosexuality.

  19. #19
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by radiance View Post
    So Christians don't follow old testament? I know Christianity condemns sodomites and Bible orders its followers to kill homosexuals. It has some explicit verses to kill homosexuals / sodomites.

    There is no narration in most believed to be authentic Sunni Hadith (Bukhari and Muslim) about Prophet Muhammad ordering killing homosexuals. The hadiths prescribing killing is from other Hadith books. Muslims don't take Hadiths that much seriously but Quran does say to punish homosexuals but also say if they repent then leave them alone. Allah is merciful. So I doubt the prophet actually ordered to kill homosexuals.
    There is nowhere in the Bible that orders death for homosexuals. Indeed the Law of the Old Testament knows nothing of personal or biological conditions as being wrong in and of themselves; it knows only of actions.

    And Christians do not in fact follow the Old Testament because they follow the Bible. Any who do follow the Old Testament are not, properly speaking, Christians.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  20. #20
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    Someone above suggested it is "flaming" to say 'God' doesn't exist? Well, why is that. IF a 'God' like the one in the Bible who is a tyrant is often quoted as saying gays are bad etc etc why is THAT not flaming to a spiritual person who doesn't believe that? I am not, by saying this to try and get someone reported or anything, because I'm for free speech, but am just saying it works both ways.
    God may be quoted as saying gays are bad, but it's hard to argue from the original texts that He actually said such a thing.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #21

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    [Text: Removed] your statement is false.
    Oooh, stepped on your nerves, did I? My statement is only false because it was extreeme. You do know however that it still applies to quite a lot of people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Logically irrelevant -- that some people use a document or set of documents in order to justify their hate does not invalidate the document.
    I don't ever remember saying that the "document" (I guess you mean the bible) is invalid. How am I logically irrelevant, when your answer has nothing to do with what I said? Please...
    Also, people who use the Bible to justify anything that violates another human's rights commit a "sin". Don't you think? I think it's quite understandable that the Bible is under attack. It is a piece of literature that shaped our world for thousands of years and it still continues to do so. I am quite sick of seeing it's influence wherever I look. You love your pretty book so much? Okay. Don't shove it down my throat though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Please present evidence that there are any "self-righteous fools" on this board.
    Obvious facts don't need to be proven. I am one of them too from time to time, and frankly, you are too.

    [Text: Removed]
    Last edited by opinterph; March 6th, 2014 at 09:04 PM. Reason: No Flame Zone; removed verbiage quoted from another poster

  22. #22
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbance View Post
    Oooh, stepped on your nerves, did I? My statement is only false because it was extreeme. You do know however that it still applies to quite a lot of people.
    Bigotry always steps on my nerves. And your statement was false because it was an unfounded generalization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbance View Post
    I don't ever remember saying that the "document" (I guess you mean the bible) is invalid. How am I logically irrelevant, when your answer has nothing to do with what I said? Please...
    You said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbance View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed]
    The base thought of any system is found in the documents which define that system. You are claiming that the system of thought is invalid because people in power used that document to justify their bigotry and malice. Your claim is logically irrelevant, even internally inconsistent because your reason doesn't actually address the claim it is meant to support.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbance View Post
    Also, people who use the Bible to justify anything that violates another human's rights commit a "sin". Don't you think?
    Of course, because all humans are made in the image of God, and thus all have equal "standing". That's why persecution of homosexuals is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbance View Post
    I think it's quite understandable that the Bible is under attack. It is a piece of literature that shaped our world for thousands of years and it still continues to do so. I am quite sick of seeing it's influence wherever I look. You love your pretty book so much? Okay. Don't shove it down my throat though.
    The Bible is under attack primarily by people who have no more grasp of it than do the fundamentalists who think it "proves" the earth is only a few thousand years old, when in fact it makes no such claim. And that's sad, because the ethics of the Bible are still so far ahead of what people practice that it will probably remain relevant for the next five thousand years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbance View Post
    Obvious facts don't need to be proven. I am one of them too from time to time, and frankly, you are too.
    What you said was not an "obvious fact". I challenged that it's a fact at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbance View Post
    [Text: Removed]
    LOL

    If you think that was an emotional display, no wonder you didn't see any "real arguments". Logical analysis is always a real argument. Your response has plenty of emotive words -- "makes me quite sick", "Ooooh", "don't shove it down my throat", "it was a pleasure" -- whereas I treated the matter with the same analysis I would for, for example, Kahlil Gibran's The Prophet or Brontë's Jane Eyre.
    Last edited by opinterph; March 6th, 2014 at 09:01 PM. Reason: added attribution; removed verbiage quoted from another poster

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  23. #23
    In Loving Memory palbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Coastal Downeast Maine
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    11,132

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Where is kallipolis when the thread needs him?

  24. #24
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    Where is kallipolis when the thread needs him?
    Why does it need him? We have the documents to examine, and that's what's necessary. In the case of Jesus, it's plain you can't convict Him of being a homophobe; in the case of Mohammed, it's arguable.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  25. #25
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Piraeus, Greece
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    12,295

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    Where is kallipolis when the thread needs him?
    Transferred to an island community for a few months while the resident physician convalesces from serious injuries sustained while playing football!!

    On a 24 hour visit to Piraeus to resolve tax related issues.

    Kulindahr's comments are accurate, and sufficient to address the questions raised in this thread.

  26. #26
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    On a 24 hour visit to Piraeus to resolve tax related issues.
    Ah, Piraeus; yes, I know him well . . . .


    (please tell me you get that).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  27. #27
    Sex God Mariatenebre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Gender
    Transexual Female
    Orientation
    Straight
    Posts
    956

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by radiance View Post
    First of all I want to say I am Muslim. In religious point of view I am committing a huge crime for desiring man and woman both but its not the most heinous sin in Islam. Allah ('The God' in Arabic) said he will forgive every sin if he wishes to but he will never forgive the sin of associating partner with him (Shirk). He will also give heaven to Jews and Christians if they don't join any partner with Allah but I know in Islamic point of view Christians join Jesus Christ with Allah (God -The father for Christians). Arab Christians and Christians in some other countries do call the God Allah. Jesus is son of God in Christianity but Jesus is Prophet of God in Islam. That's the main difference between Islam and Christianity in it's principle.

    Prophet Muhammad may not be worshiped by Muslims directly like Christians worship Jesus Christ but in true sense he is no less than a deity like figure for Muslims although its forbidden to join partner with Allah. There is a fear of worshiping Prophet Muhammad that's why there is a ban on depiction of him.


    Now let put all these basic facts aside. Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics? These two historical figures are the most influential religious figures in human history. That's why I am asking.

    If you read Bible, Jesus said 'Kill both the men who sleep together.' Christianity is most harsh towards homosexuals. Islam also condemns homosexuality but in Quran there was no real punishment prescribed. Allah just said you have transgressed enough. 'O Muhammad', punish the sodomites and if they repents then leave them. But in Hadith (secondary source) Prophet Muhammad said kill the sodomites. Since there was no real punishment prescribed in Quran most Muslims don't support killing homosexuals. Hadiths are not taken as seriously as Quran. Hadiths are sayings of the prophet but these hadiths were written 200 years after the Prophet's death. So nobody really sure about which hadith is authentic and which are false and fabricated but if its authentic hadith then I am upset.

    I am hugely against such inhumane punishment. It is not in our control that we are gay or bisexual. Why is God so angry with us? Why he wants to see millions of gays, lesbians, bisexuals in the world to be executed?
    First of all Jesus never mentioned homosexuality although others did in the Bible and all in a negative way. You are correct that Jesus and Mohammad hated gays. They were sexist, homophobic and foolish men. Next first of all only Yahweh is angry with gays and it is because he is a tyrannical war god from polytheistic Canaan. However his ideas about homosexuals have been proven wrong. We know that homosexuality is not evil but a universal Biological phenomena found in every living species. So he is wrong to hate and execute gays. He is also wrong to punish people for shirk or not believing in him. Everyone has a right to believe in any religion or god they want without harm coming to them. Yahweh or Allah are essentially no different from any Earthly tyrant who punishes dissent with torture and honestly if he were a human he would be charged with war crimes.

    The thing you should ask yourself is why would you want to worship a hateful tyrant when there are so many Gods that will accept you as you are.

  28. #28
    Sex God Mariatenebre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Gender
    Transexual Female
    Orientation
    Straight
    Posts
    956

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by radiance View Post
    So Christians don't follow old testament? I know Christianity condemns sodomites and Bible orders its followers to kill homosexuals. It has some explicit verses to kill homosexuals / sodomites.

    There is no narration in most believed to be authentic Sunni Hadith (Bukhari and Muslim) about Prophet Muhammad ordering killing homosexuals. The hadiths prescribing killing is from other Hadith books. Muslims don't take Hadiths that much seriously but Quran does say to punish homosexuals but also say if they repent then leave them alone. Allah is merciful. So I doubt the prophet actually ordered to kill homosexuals.
    Bullshit Bukhari and Muslim in fact say that homosexuals to be killed. In fact Allah in the Quran ordered the people of Lut to be killed because they had homosexuals. What is funny I must say is that in the Quran it says that the people of Lut were the first to have homosexuals when in actuality homosexuals have been around in all human civilizations and even among animals.
    http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Ha...:Homosexuality

    All of the Abrahamic religions are homophobic and sexist. They are in fact the apex of religious sexism and homophobia so no conscious gay person should be a part of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    They do and they don't, in that Christ's coming and sacrifice for the sins of man results in a major change in man's status with God. I imagine some of the more religious scholars about could explain it better than I. The Old Testament represents the old laws and teachings that were in affect before this change. Afterwards some of the laws carried through, some were changed, some were discontinued as no longer necessary. The Old Testament is now essentially background history leading up to the Christ's coming and its application to the Christian era must be viewed in the context of Christ's teachings.
    So magically because of a blood sacrifice Yahweh changed his opinions on gays being killed. Here is the clincher if Yahweh is so good then why did he have a rule commanding gays to be killed anyways. Why didn't he support gays as many Pagan Gods have done. Plus there are verses saying that homosexuality is a death worthy offence including in the New Testament.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    There is nowhere in the Bible that orders death for homosexuals. Indeed the Law of the Old Testament knows nothing of personal or biological conditions as being wrong in and of themselves; it knows only of actions.

    And Christians do not in fact follow the Old Testament because they follow the Bible. Any who do follow the Old Testament are not, properly speaking, Christians.
    So basically according to you Yahweh condemns gay sex but not being gay. So gays are to live lives of sexual and romantic deprivation in order to be pleasing to Yahweh.

    Also this whole verse in Romans after Yahweh curses said Romans due to idolatry to be gay so he could punish them some more then says that homosexuality along with other sins deserve death.
    1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
    1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
    1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    1:31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
    1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

  29. #29
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    So basically according to you Yahweh condemns gay sex but not being gay. So gays are to live lives of sexual and romantic deprivation in order to be pleasing to Yahweh.
    Not according to me, but according to the text.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    Also this whole verse in Romans after Yahweh curses said Romans due to idolatry to be gay so he could punish them some more then says that homosexuality along with other sins deserve death.
    1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
    1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
    1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    1:31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
    1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
    And just where does that talk about homosexuality?

    I'll note that first you have to find people who have deliberately rejected God, which is where Paul's progression begins. Then you have to find men who are attracted to women, and women who are attracted to men, who reject that as well in order to engage in sex with people they're not attracted to. Having found those people, you have to narrow it to a group who pushed God out of their knowledge and so engage in envy, murder, invention of evil things, who don't care about anyone.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  30. #30
    inclusivist
    zoltanspawn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    5,571
    Blog Entries
    8

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Not according to me, but according to the text.
    No such thing as a text without a reader.
    Scimitar Oryx
    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

  31. #31
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post
    No such thing as a text without a reader.
    Words have meaning. Anyone can read there and see that there is no condemnation of homosexuality. That some fail to do so is not the fault of the words.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  32. #32
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Beware the deepity.
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Posts
    17,724
    Blog Entries
    2

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Not according to me, but according to the text.
    What an unpleasant and ill-considered text, then.

  33. #33
    inclusivist
    zoltanspawn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    5,571
    Blog Entries
    8

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Words have meaning. Anyone can read there and see that there is no condemnation of homosexuality. That some fail to do so is not the fault of the words.
    So, some read the words rightly, and some read the words wrongly...
    Scimitar Oryx
    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

  34. #34
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post
    So, some read the words rightly, and some read the words wrongly...
    Of course. Some read into them what they want to hear. I was trained rigorously to follow only what the words mean. I frequently don't like what they say, but it's irrelevant to me if they're what I want to hear. The words of a text meant to convey a meaning are just data, no different than what's collected in a science lab: you follow where they lead.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  35. #35
    inclusivist
    zoltanspawn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    5,571
    Blog Entries
    8

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Of course. Some read into them what they want to hear. I was trained rigorously to follow only what the words mean. I frequently don't like what they say, but it's irrelevant to me if they're what I want to hear. The words of a text meant to convey a meaning are just data, no different than what's collected in a science lab: you follow where they lead.
    And others have been trained to "follow" the meanings of texts differently.

    So, you are only presenting your version of your understanding.

    You are not presenting some plain, objective version of Yahweh's christian dislike of homosexuality.

    (Unless you were trained by god?)
    Scimitar Oryx
    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

  36. #36
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Piraeus, Greece
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    12,295

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    There is nothing wrong with desire, and there is nothing wrong to share in that desire with another man who feels the same way.

    Let that be your guide and your measure.
    It is that simple when the desire is pure, and loving of our fellow man....but, where would that leave all those judgemental theists, and atheists.....with no one to judge?

  37. #37

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Of course. Everyone reads into them what they want to hear.
    Corrected this for you.
    Last edited by opinterph; March 5th, 2014 at 09:59 PM. Reason: removed attribution

  38. #38
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Beware the deepity.
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Posts
    17,724
    Blog Entries
    2

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    It is that simple when the desire is pure, and loving of our fellow man....but, where would that leave all those judgemental theists, and atheists.....with no one to judge?
    Probably all struggling to figure out when the desire is pure or not.

  39. #39
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post
    And others have been trained to "follow" the meanings of texts differently.

    So, you are only presenting your version of your understanding.

    You are not presenting some plain, objective version of Yahweh's christian dislike of homosexuality.

    (Unless you were trained by god?)
    The only way to get a different meaning from those texts is to make it up. Actions are condemned, nothing else.


    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbance View Post
    Corrected this for you.
    That's what you want to believe.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  40. #40
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Beware the deepity.
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Posts
    17,724
    Blog Entries
    2

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    The only way to get a different meaning from those texts is to make it up. Actions are inappropriately and unethically condemned, nothing else.
    fixed that up a bit.

  41. #41
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    fixed that up a bit.
    Nice of you to add material irrelevant to the point.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  42. #42

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    That's what you want to believe.
    We all believe what we want to believe.

  43. #43
    inclusivist
    zoltanspawn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    5,571
    Blog Entries
    8

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The only way to get a different meaning from those texts is to make it up.
    As an expert on christianity, you ought to know that the scholarship around biblical prohibitions against "homosexuality" is anything but settled. The unequivocal assertion that the texts mean one thing, and one thing only, is your take on the issue. Happily, there are others in the field with better credentials who are countering this pernicious nonsense.
    Scimitar Oryx
    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

  44. #44

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Also, I will consider taking the bible seriously when we can get our hands on the uncensored version and all the parts the Catholic Church Inc. decided NOT to include.

    They quite possibly destroyed everything they didn't like and now they try to shove their twisted, arbitrarily pieced together version of "How to live for dummies" book down our throat... Well done.

  45. #45
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbance View Post
    We all believe what we want to believe.
    Not true. I know many people who would like to believe it's possible to go faster than light, but they don't believe it because the evidence says it isn't possible.

    Now if you want to define what people do believe as being what they want to believe, you're actually not saying anything at all.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  46. #46
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post
    As an expert on christianity, you ought to know that the scholarship around biblical prohibitions against "homosexuality" is anything but settled. The unequivocal assertion that the texts mean one thing, and one thing only, is your take on the issue. Happily, there are others in the field with better credentials who are countering this pernicious nonsense.
    Countering what "pernicious nonsense"?

    Anyone reading more than a condemnation of actions into the words of the text in question aren't experts, they're wishful dreamers imposing their feelings on the objective words. There's no possible way at all to get anything out of Leviticus except a condemnation of actions -- "homosexuality" isn't even a concept that society had in the first place, so there's no way it can be in those words.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  47. #47
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbance View Post
    Also, I will consider taking the bible seriously when we can get our hands on the uncensored version and all the parts the Catholic Church Inc. decided NOT to include.

    They quite possibly destroyed everything they didn't like and now they try to shove their twisted, arbitrarily pieced together version of "How to live for dummies" book down our throat... Well done.
    There was no "Catholic Church Inc." when the canon was established. No authorities decided on a version and forced it on anyone, for that matter. That wasn't attempted until the Council of Trent presumed to change what had always been held.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  48. #48
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Beware the deepity.
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Posts
    17,724
    Blog Entries
    2

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Not true. I know many people who would like to believe it's possible to go faster than light, but they don't believe it because the evidence says it isn't possible.
    More to the point, when someone says "I can go faster than light!" those same people would say "Show me the math!" followed just as quickly by "or, show me the error in my math."

    And when the person claiming to have gone faster than light says "Oh, you're just taking your math out of context" or "once again you repeat the errors of your math" without actually endeavouring to explain either their math or the error alluded to in the math of others, their credibility erodes at a speed up to, but not exceeding, the speed of light.

  49. #49
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,513
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    More to the point, when someone says "I can go faster than light!" those same people would say "Show me the math!" followed just as quickly by "or, show me the error in my math."

    And when the person claiming to have gone faster than light says "Oh, you're just taking your math out of context" or "once again you repeat the errors of your math" without actually endeavouring to explain either their math or the error alluded to in the math of others, their credibility erodes at a speed up to, but not exceeding, the speed of light.
    Exactly.

    So far, no one has ever made an argument that the words mean more than the condemnation of particular actions -- they just claim they do. They have no math to show.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  50. #50
    inclusivist
    zoltanspawn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    5,571
    Blog Entries
    8

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Were Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad really homophobics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Countering what "pernicious nonsense"?

    Anyone reading more than a condemnation of actions into the words of the text in question aren't experts, they're wishful dreamers imposing their feelings on the objective words. There's no possible way at all to get anything out of Leviticus except a condemnation of actions -- "homosexuality" isn't even a concept that society had in the first place, so there's no way it can be in those words.
    I find myself wondering who actually is the wishful dreamer here...the Christian scholar whose organizing principle is love? Or the Exile building edifices against homecoming? All of us are plagued by perverse instincts luring us away from the sacred truth, and love is at the center of it.

    Anyway, that said, I'm curious about the Biblical notion of "actions" which you are referencing. Can you show your math, regarding that word vis a vis sexuality?

    Is it an "action" to fantasize?
    Is it an "action" to look directly upon the naked flesh of another?
    Is it an "action" to have a passing sexual feeling while patting someone on the shoulder?
    Is it an "action" to love someone?
    Is it an "action" to love someone in response to their nearby presence?

    Is it an "action" to masturbate about the same sex?
    Does the prohibition begin with physical contact?
    Does the prohibition begin with fucking?

    So on and so forth.
    Scimitar Oryx
    The worst thing...is not energy depletion, economic collapse, conventional war, or the expansion of totalitarian governments. As terrible as these catastrophes would be for us, they can be repaired in a few generations. The one process now going on that will take millions of years to correct is loss of genetic and species diversity by the destruction of natural habitats. This is the folly our descendants are least likely to forgive us.--e.o. wilson

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | About JustUsBoys.com | Site Map | RSS | Webmasters | Advertise | Link to JUB | Report A Bug on this Page

Visit our sister sites: Broke Straight Boys | CollegeDudes.com | CollegeBoyPhysicals.com | RocketTube
All models appearing on JustUsBoys.com were over 18 at the time of photography. The records for sexually explicit images required by U.S. 2257 are kept by the
individual producers of the images. The location of the records is available by clicking the Custodian of Records link at the bottom of each gallery page.
© 2012 JustUsBoys.com. The JustUsBoys.com name and logo are registered trademarks. Labeled with ICRA and RTA. Member of ASACP and The Free Speech Coalition.