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  1. #1
    TheSpectatingLoner
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    "I Like My Freedom"

    So today at work, another situation happened when folks started talking about relationships and the discussion inevitably came to me. I was asked the last time I was in a relationship. When I said, "never," I got the usual shock, then the predictable "but you're so handsome/funny/sweet" comments, before being grilled as to why I could possibly be in my mid-30s without ever having been in a relationship.

    I mentioned being a loner, and that I prefer my freedom.

    Instantly, one of the folks gets annoyed and says "I don't know WHY people act like they can't have their freedom in a relationship!" and goes on and on about how she's so 'free' with her boyfriend, and that I shouldn't think that way.

    Anyway, I'm bringing it up, because I find it funny when the topic of "freedom" comes up, there's always at least one person who is so incredibly butthurt at the suggestion that a relationship might hinder one's freedom.

    It bothers me because these folks don't seem to realize that someone else's idea of freedom may not be the same as their own and that saying "I like being single because I like my freedom" isn't an attack on their relationship--it's just an admission that the person speaking might not want to be tied down to someone else.

    It's happened here on JUB numerous times when I or other posters have mentioned preferring our freedom, and that reaction has always bothered me because regardless of my opinions of whether relationships are something I'm into, I'm not one to knock someone else's.

    So when I say "I like my freedom," it's about me and what I value as being free. Don't be offended. Don't lecture me about you and your boyfriend. Cause it ain't about you.

  2. #2
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    I would have pointed out the obvious in parallel examples:

    If you are in a relationship with your pet dog or cat, your freedom is limited.

    If you are in a relationship with your children, your freedom is limited.

    If you are in a relationship with your employer, your freedom is limited.

    If you are in a relationship with your credit card company, your freedom is limited.

    If you are in a relationship with your mortgage, your freedom is limited.

  3. #3
    TheSpectatingLoner
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    With the folks in question, implying even a slight loss of freedom in a relationship automatically makes you a villain, so I wouldn't dare broach that line of thinking with them.

  4. #4
    Dejavudoo
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    I'd probably get snarky: "as it were, I'm in working relationship with YOU people, so I'm really not free to tell you what total fucktards you are."

  5. #5
    The Burden MakeDigitalLove's Avatar
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpectatingLoner View Post

    So when I say "I like my freedom," it's about me and what I value as being free. Don't be offended. Don't lecture me about you and your boyfriend. Cause it ain't about you.
    We know, you never fail to inform us.

  6. #6
    TheSpectatingLoner
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Clearly, some people don't know.

  7. #7
    Young at Heart ravenstar's Avatar
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    I can't help but wonder sometimes if you can have too much freedom Is freedom a choice, or a circumstance?

    I used to ride the "freedom" train when I was younger. I didn't want to "give up" my independence, I wanted everything as I wanted it. I got it too. Independence, everything exactly how I wanted it.

    Now, the only face I see is that of my cat. I'm free to do whatever I like, whenever I like, but I can't help but wonder if freedom would mean something more if it included someone other than myself.

  8. #8
    TheSpectatingLoner
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenstar View Post
    I can't help but wonder sometimes if you can have too much freedom Is freedom a choice, or a circumstance?
    That depends on the individual. I definitely don't think you can have too much freedom. And if freedom is a circumstance, not something you want, is it really free? Probably not.

    I WILL say that for me personally, the type of "freedom" I'm talking about couldn't be shared with another person. It's freedom from sharing. Freedom from that responsibility of having to include another in my life, when I have enough responsibilities.

  9. #9
    Young at Heart ravenstar's Avatar
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    I know what you mean SpectatingLoner, what I do wonder whenever I read one of these threads by you and others is are you appearing to embrace "freedom" because you feel - or fear - you have no choice. I can only base things off my own perception of course, but I do wonder about those who beat the freedom drum so loudly as to whether it is a choice or fear if that makes any sense. I "choose" not to have the responsibilities of including anyone in my life because I don't think anyone would want me in their life so to speak.

  10. #10
    TheSpectatingLoner
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    If you're the type of person who needs to assume the negative--or simply assume that someone with a different perspective than you has to be lying--go for it! Not much I can do, right? I have my truth, you have your opinion. Life goes on.

  11. #11
    Young at Heart ravenstar's Avatar
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Firstly I didn't assume anything SpectatingLoser, I asked a question while using myself and my own past as the basis for that question. That's how conversations happen. One person starts a thread, another person asks questions, the discussion continues in an attempt to better understand human nature and why we make the choices we make. It's hardly negative to have a differing view point or to wonder if we do indeed have a different view point at the foundation of it all.

  12. #12
    TheSpectatingLoner
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenstar View Post
    Firstly I didn't assume anything SpectatingLoser
    Happy new year to you and your cat, Ravenstar.

  13. #13
    Come again? dereperez's Avatar
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    As it is, people are super touchy these days. I'm hardly surprised that the lady assumed you were talking her relationship. Pretty much everyone has the "my way or the highway" attitude.

  14. #14
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    I was having a conversation the other day about the value of absolute freedom with this hermit in the middle of the woods who said...wait...no I wasn't.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  15. #15
    Lascivious Lush altlover85's Avatar
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    I can see how that would be annoying. At the same time, there are always topics where your response may put the other person on the defensive, even if you didn't intend it to be that way. It's really their issue and not yours. I would try not to let it bother me.

  16. #16

    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Loneliness is a high price to pay for independence.

  17. #17
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    Loneliness is a high price to pay for independence.
    So speaks the voice of truth, on this occasion at least. How are those bag of bricks doing?

  18. #18

    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Quote Originally Posted by medic1 View Post
    …bag of bricks …
    Are you referring to the garden trellis I'm building? I need shade against these intense western suns we have here.

  19. #19
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    Are you referring to the garden trellis I'm building? I need shade against these intense western suns we have here.
    Nope! Was referring to your "Personality", or lack of.....

  20. #20

    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Quote Originally Posted by medic1 View Post
    ..."Personality".....
    This stuff—


  21. #21
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    May i suggest you use your "search-engine" skills, or even an old fashioned dictionary, to find out the meaning of "Personality".

    Fame, and angst riven fans, and posting an irrelevant video, bears no relevance, may i suggest changing that
    "bait" on your hook?...

  22. #22
    TheSpectatingLoner
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    So after some bothersome forum comments, I just want to clarify something: The purpose of this thread wasn't to reiterate my stance on relationships. It was to send a message to those who get annoyed/offended when they hear the term "freedom" being used as a reason for solitude from anybody that they shouldn't be bothered. That ""freedom" is different for every individual.

    Because I've seen that happen on this board in discussions before I even touch them.

    That's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by medic1 View Post
    So speaks the voice of truth, on this occasion at least.
    I'm not even giving him this occasion. "Alone" and "loneliness" are two completely different things.
    Last edited by TheSpectatingLoner; January 18th, 2014 at 07:56 AM.

  23. #23
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    If freedom means different things to different people, then it's going to be a source of confusion for anyone else who wants to understand why it appeals to you. If we don't use words with the same meaning from one person to another, it's impossible to have a conversation about it. Might as well be meaningless if it is really that different.

    I love relationships for all the fnarknarbits! Amiright!
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  24. #24

    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Quote Originally Posted by belamo View Post
    "Whoever is born a loner will never find a company that is not a fiction." (Ortega y Gasset)...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Ortega_y_Gasset
    Last edited by pat grimshaw; January 18th, 2014 at 11:21 AM.

  25. #25
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Carrots, man.

  26. #26

    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Spankings in the vestry.

  27. #27

    Re: "I Like My Freedom"



    ^ This man said—

    Life is at the same time fate and freedom,

    and that freedom “is being free inside of a given fate. Fate gives us an inexorable repertory of determinate possibilities, that is, it gives us different destinies.

    We accept fate and within it we choose one destiny.”

    In this tied down fate we must therefore be active, decide and create a “project of life” — thus not be like those who live a conventional life of customs and given structures who prefer an unconcerned and imperturbable life because they are afraid of the duty of choosing a project.



  28. #28

    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Maybe you should start a running "singles" thread and update it now and then.
    I think that might get a different reaction.

  29. #29
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpectatingLoner View Post

    So when I say "I like my freedom," it's about me and what I value as being free. Don't be offended. Don't lecture me about you and your boyfriend. Cause it ain't about you.
    I certainly have some of the same attributes in my thinking, TSL. I consider myself to be extremely independent - the floodgates of that opened up once I finally escaped living with my parents many years ago, where I felt that I was so entirely sheltered with very little freedom of any kind. Some of that was my own huge wall, as well, as I was close to agoraphobic in those days.

    I remember, the first time that I rented my own place (a SINGLE ROOM in a rooming house, and a shared kitchen), I felt like, WOW, I was really taking an incredibly huge and crazy chance on things, way outside my comfort zone. Well, THAT mindset changed pretty quickly in the next 3 or 4 years...

    At retirement age I am more adventurous than I was forty years ago...and still incredibly independent.

    I have long wondered how adaptable I would be, in a relationship of some kind, to the changes in my independence that would become part of being in that relationship.
    BOSS: I'm sorry, but I'll have to lay you and Jack off.
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  30. #30
    veni, vidi, reliqui
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpectatingLoner View Post
    So today at work, another situation happened when folks started talking about relationships and the discussion inevitably came to me. I was asked the last time I was in a relationship. When I said, "never," I got the usual shock, then the predictable "but you're so handsome/funny/sweet" comments, before being grilled as to why I could possibly be in my mid-30s without ever having been in a relationship.

    I mentioned being a loner, and that I prefer my freedom.

    Instantly, one of the folks gets annoyed and says "I don't know WHY people act like they can't have their freedom in a relationship!" and goes on and on about how she's so 'free' with her boyfriend, and that I shouldn't think that way.

    Anyway, I'm bringing it up, because I find it funny when the topic of "freedom" comes up, there's always at least one person who is so incredibly butthurt at the suggestion that a relationship might hinder one's freedom.

    It bothers me because these folks don't seem to realize that someone else's idea of freedom may not be the same as their own and that saying "I like being single because I like my freedom" isn't an attack on their relationship--it's just an admission that the person speaking might not want to be tied down to someone else.

    It's happened here on JUB numerous times when I or other posters have mentioned preferring our freedom, and that reaction has always bothered me because regardless of my opinions of whether relationships are something I'm into, I'm not one to knock someone else's.

    So when I say "I like my freedom," it's about me and what I value as being free. Don't be offended. Don't lecture me about you and your boyfriend. Cause it ain't about you.
    Tell them to go fuck themselves.

  31. #31
    Sex God AstareGod's Avatar
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    I have long wondered how adaptable I would be, in a relationship of some kind, to the changes in my independence that would become part of being in that relationship.
    That's something I think about occasionally as well. I think of myself as very independent and I don't require too much social interaction; however, one of my greatest desires is to settle down with someone and share my life and everything I enjoy with him. He and I would need to strike a good balance between together time and alone time. I think it would be easy to maintain a certain level of independence and freedom as long as both are willing to compromise when there may be conflict.

    After all, when you're single and not in a committed relationship, there are a lot of things you are not free to do. When you commit to another, you may be giving away a little of your personal freedom, but you also gain the freedom to share your entire life with another, along with all the other freedoms that come with that. Some financial freedoms may also be gained if both of you are responsible with money and contribute to the same household rather than living apart.

    And, you always have the freedom to leave.
    Brad's Search - 70,000 words and counting!

  32. #32

    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Freedom has it's uses, but in your case it was all about social norms.
    It is expected from a man of your age to have a certain predisposition towards life.

    Yes, some people believe that the world should woork this way or that way. There will always be people who nag. The only solution is to not give a fuck.

  33. #33
    TheSpectatingLoner
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckysRevenge View Post
    Maybe you should start a running "singles" thread and update it now and then.
    I think that might get a different reaction.
    But this isn't a singles thread. This thread was created specifically for folks who get annoyed/offended at the "freedom" thing.

    I've seen people get offended by that in threads before I've even spoken.

  34. #34
    JUB Addict Gentleheart's Avatar
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    I think as it has been here, it is probably your tone in saying what you say that puts people on the defense. You do seem to have this "I'm so awesome because I'm eternally alone, single, and don't need a relationship" type vibe to a lot of your posts. Then you like to do this whole "but if other people are in relationships...that's awesome!" deal then I don't completely buy. That has always been why my reaction to your "FREEEEEEDOMZ omg" moments.

    How about you try to explain to us your definition/idea of "freedom"? I'm honestly interested in hearing it...again?

    What many people view as a loss off "freedom", is actually just individuals choosing to SHARE experiences with someone they love and care about. Relationships are definitely not for people who value an inordinate amount of "me time",the selfish or fiercely "independent" individual by any means.
    I like to watch...

  35. #35
    TheSpectatingLoner
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleheart View Post
    I think as it has been here, it is probably your tone in saying what you say that puts people on the defense. You do seem to have this "I'm so awesome because I'm eternally alone, single, and don't need a relationship" type vibe to a lot of your posts. Then you like to do this whole "but if other people are in relationships...that's awesome!" deal then I don't completely buy.
    Why would you think that? I'm all for people being happy. My solitude and love of solitude doesn't stop me from rooting for others' relationships.

    There was a girl at my previous job who always ended up hung up on jerks and after they inevitably cheated or broke her heart, she'd go on and on and on about how single and lonely she is. This type of thinking annoys me, but I tried not to be insensitive and listened. She'd eventually start dating another co-worker, a really nice guy. Weeks into it, she realized she had to break up with him. They had nothing in common. She's an artist, he's not. She's so politically aware, he's not. Blah blah blah.

    Even though I'm all gung-ho on learning to love yourself as a single and be an independent, I was one of the folks telling her how silly it is that she give up on him for such trivial reasons, especially after mourning a serious of totally douchebag ex-boyfriends that weren't even nice people.

    Needless to say, she listened. They're still together a year later, and I couldn't be happier for them.

    My realizing that a relationship isn't ideal for me doesn't mean I don't enjoy or love them for others. I only get annoyed when folks assume that because their relationship is great that everyone suddenly needs one. We're all individuals. We all have different needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleheart View Post
    How about you try to explain to us your definition/idea of "freedom"? I'm honestly interested in hearing it...again?\
    I really took a minute pondering whether this was sarcasm or not.

    It really has to do with control over my day-to-day activities. I like waking up alone, eating alone, traveling the city alone, vacationing alone, watching TV alone, listening to music alone, etc. I'm just a loner. I only like sharing meals with others every so often.

    If I could date someone and maintain 100% control over every single decision, maybe I would. But that wouldn't be fair to them, would it? Two people working together (in any capacity) means discussing what's important to both parties and compromising.

    I like knowing that I have the option to share activities with others (the perks of amassing a huge amount of friends), but I hate the idea that someone is regularly there and I can't get away from them. I like that if I'm having a great time with friends, there isn't someone at home wondering what I'm up to and why I haven't called. I like knowing if I want to get up and move tomorrow (or simply take an overnight trip), I don't have to share that decision with someone. I like that my finances are completely my own and I don't need to discuss big purchases.

    Right now, I'm in the process of trying to get my credit together so that I can buy property. When I do that, the choice of where I live needs to be 100% completely my own. That is the single most important thing in the world to me and it is not a choice that I plan on sharing with anyone. But it's also smaller decisions like these throughout the day that define "freedom" to me. I'm very flippant, very spur of the moment, and often feel "trapped" simply being in the house for more than hour or two at a time. I love exploring and I do such in such a weird pattern/method, it's better to do alone than with someone else.

    I was already born with family and I've grown some friends who mean the world to me. And in such, I obligate myself to be there for them in times of need. Even though I am happy to do that because I love these folks, I am in no rush to add more people to the list of folks who receive those perks. I need the rest of that time for me.

    Right now, the closest person to me s probably my best friend and roommate. I love him and have told him as much. He's a great friend. Despite living in the same apartment, there are still times where we've gone days at a time without saying one word to each other, just because one or both of us aren't in the mood. I think that's the limit to how close I'd want to be to anyone.

    If relationship partners generally were accepting of being neglected for days at a time and not having their opinions/wants/needs matter, I'd probably be more into relationships. But that's hardly fair to them, is it?

  36. #36
    JUB Addict Gentleheart's Avatar
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Well, thank you for that very thorough explanation. I can't argue with that...you are most definitely better off single. lol

    I apologize if I've ever been a dick to you because of how I interpreted your words.It always came off as a "judgment" to me, but that post makes your stance a lot clearer. It doesn't just have the "people in relationships are tied down/ball and chain" connotation I've felt in the past.

    I'm sorry.
    I like to watch...

  37. #37
    TheSpectatingLoner
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    Re: "I Like My Freedom"

    Eh, no worries. If anything, the net has taught me I'm pretty skilled at coming across as a dick in writing. Definitely far more than I try to be or ever would be perceived in person.

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