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  1. #251

    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Peanut butter is fattening. Beans are fattening. Greasy/fast foods are fattening. Those are all cheaper than meat and meat is not inexpensive for a family carefully watching their money each month. Breaded/pre-processed frozen meat products are cheaper than fresh meat, too, and more fattening.

    If you think eating healthy is cheap maybe you should make a trip to the grocery store yourself instead of sending your personal assistant to do it. In fact, check out how many grocery stores even exist in inner cities.

    Your posts consistently fail to reflect a worldview in touch with reality.
    Peanut is more expensive than meat. Beans cannot be considered fattening, and they re. Cheap source of complete protein with essentially no fat. The real point is obese people eat lots of food. They could save money by buying healthy food and staying thin.

  2. #252
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Peanut is more expensive than meat. Beans cannot be considered fattening, and they re. Cheap source of complete protein with essentially no fat. The real point is obese people eat lots of food. They could save money by buying healthy food and staying thin.
    1. Go to store.

    2. Check price of peanut butter jar.

    3. Check price of fresh meat for 1 person.

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post

    So millions of people are starving? Gee, I keep hearing that Americans are getting more and more obese. Or perhaps they are ghosts, since they are not living.
    That's actually a result of poverty - many Americans now eat unhealthy cheap food that makes them fat and ill. So thanks for pointing that out.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    1. Go to store.

    2. Check price of peanut butter jar.

    3. Check price of fresh meat for 1 person.
    I can't believe this is an actual argument that's being had. Somebody is actually claiming that in America it's cheaper to eat healthy O.o

    Benvolio, do you know what Whole Foods or Trader Joe's are?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  5. #255
    still gluten free chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    That's actually a result of poverty - many Americans now eat unhealthy cheap food that makes them fat and ill. So thanks for pointing that out.
    These indolent blood-suckers should eat more cat food - contain the four basic food groups - and sooo affordable. Furthermore, have any of these parasites ever checked their local dumpsters?


  6. #256

    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    These indolent blood-suckers should eat more cat food - contain the four basic food groups - and sooo affordable. Furthermore, have any of these parasites ever checked their local dumpsters?
    Get serious. It costs more to get and stay fat than to be thin. Duh. If they can only afford fatty foods, eat less of it. This is not rocket science.
    Last edited by Benvolio; January 10th, 2014 at 05:46 PM.

  7. #257
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Get serious. It costs more to get and stay fat than to be thin. Duh
    You clearly don't know anything, whatsoever, about nutrition. Simply cease talking about things when you are literally pulling conclusions out of your rearside.

  8. #258

    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    You clearly don't know anything, whatsoever, about nutrition. Simply cease talking about things when you are literally pulling conclusions out of your rearside.
    I am sure I know as much about nutrition as anyone here. Buying peanut butter, even in your large quantities, hardly makes you an expert.

  9. #259
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I am sure I know as much about nutrition as anyone here.
    No, you don't, as evidenced by your statement that it costs more to get fat than to eat healthy.

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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The result is the hiring is done without meeting the applicant, excluding all but "data" And defined specifications.
    The pre-employment interview is an integral part of the testing process. In larger organizations, the interviewer is not the same person who makes the selection. In that way, the results of the interview are not biased by personal affinities or other common fallacies associated with personal appeal or preference. All pre-employment interviews should be based upon validated questions that have been pre-established and possible answers assigned a score. In some cases an answer may not have been anticipated; however, there are mechanisms to assign a relative score to such answers after the response is collected. Each recruit should be asked the same set of questions under the same technique of interview. In the end, the employer is left with a reasonable comparison of the interview results from all candidates that can then be compiled to assist in the selection process. If the objective is to hire the person best qualified to fill a position, then blind data is an excellent way to make a comparison.

    I understand that most employers take liberties during job interviews by asking inappropriate questions and allowing personal bias to influence decisions. Nonetheless, it is true that the more a firm’s methodology resembles a truly fair approach, the less likely that firm will face a challenge or related litigation. Even if a firm doesn’t wish to expend extra time and resources to ensure and document compliance with the law – the more the employer knows about proper or recommended methods, the less likely he/she is to make a mistake. It’s really not that difficult to be fair.

  11. #261

    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    No, you don't, as evidenced by your statement that it costs more to get fat than to eat healthy.
    If you gave it a seconds though-- if you could-- you would realize that eating less of whatever is making you fat will save money. Duh

  12. #262
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    If you gave it a seconds though-- if you could-- you would realize that eating less of whatever is making you fat will save money. Duh
    That doesn't change anything whatsoever about what happens mouthful vs. mouthful of cheap mass produced or pre-processed food vs. higher quality lower fat healthier diets by dollar you're able to spend. It's just an evasion. When was the last year you shopped for yourself in a supermarket? 1982?

  13. #263

    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    The pre-employment interview is an integral part of the testing process. In larger organizations, the interviewer is not the same person who makes the selection. In that way, the results of the interview are not biased by personal affinities or other common fallacies associated with personal appeal or preference. All pre-employment interviews should be based upon validated questions that have been pre-established and possible answers assigned a score. In some cases an answer may not have been anticipated; however, there are mechanisms to assign a relative score to such answers after the response is collected. Each recruit should be asked the same set of questions under the same technique of interview. In the end, the employer is left with a reasonable comparison of the interview results from all candidates that can then be compiled to assist in the selection process. If the objective is to hire the person best qualified to fill a position, then blind data is an excellent way to make a comparison.

    I understand that most employers take liberties during job interviews by asking inappropriate questions and allowing personal bias to influence decisions. Nonetheless, it is true that the more a firm’s methodology resembles a truly fair approach, the less likely that firm will face a challenge or related litigation. Even if a firm doesn’t wish to expend extra time and resources to ensure and document compliance with the law – the more the employer knows about proper or recommended methods, the less likely he/she is to make a mistake. It’s really not that difficult to be fair.
    I am apalled at what you think employers should go through to hire.Remember this he next time you wonder why employers send their jobs overseas or failure to hire, or look for technical improvments. Oh! What a tangled web you weave. You confirmed my position. The one who creates the position and pays the salary and benefits, and is liable for the employees acts should be allowed to choose. At will really is best. Remember, with two decades of EEOC we have 14% black unemployment. Your way does not work.
    Last edited by Benvolio; January 10th, 2014 at 06:15 PM.

  14. #264
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Remember this he next time you wonder why employers send their jobs overseas. Oh! What a tangled web you weave. You unconfirmed my oosition. The one who creates the position and pays the salary and benefits, and is liable for the employees acts should be allowed to choose. Remember, with two decades of EEOC we have 14% black unemployment. Your way des not work.
    Ah, so you would like the food industry to operate here as it does in China, with fish raised in algae-overgrown swimming pools packed with chemical antibiotics, imitation beef being sold as real beef and the threat of lead contamination in your food?

    That would, after all, relax costs on employers.

  15. #265

    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Ah, so you would like the food industry to operate here as it does in China, with fish raised in algae-overgrown swimming pools packed with chemical antibiotics, imitation beef being sold as real beef and the threat of lead contamination in your food?

    That would, after all, relax costs on employers.
    Butt out. We are discussing hiring employees.

  16. #266
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Butt out. We are discussing hiring employees.
    Except you come at that issue with the same argument you use everywhere, that all regulations or "pressure" or costs which must be born by employers explains outsourcing.

    It's all a red herring anyway, because as I've pointed out to you before, and you've avoided, regulatory costs don't matter when you can pay people in a third world country a small fraction of even the minimum wage in the U.S. So hiding your anti-minority view on hiring policies behind an argument of "see why employers leave the country" is utterly disingenuous.

  17. #267
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The one who creates the position and pays the salary and benefits, and is liable for the employees acts should be allowed to choose.
    I suppose that “one” is free to choose whether to comply with the law or risk the consequence. There is no reason to hide behind false pretense. OTOH, some people seem to think any action is okay, so long as you don’t get caught.

  18. #268

    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    I suppose that “one” is free to choose whether to comply with the law or risk the consequence. There is no reason to hide behind false pretense. OTOH, some people seem to think any action is okay, so long as you don’t get caught.
    The law is wrong. It is not working. Worse it is counterproductive.

  19. #269
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The law is wrong. It is not working. Worse it is counterproductive.
    Then you should consider voting for, or otherwise supporting, political candidates who offer more appropriate solutions and who will work to change the law in ways that will make it better.

    In the mean time, it is the law.

  20. #270

    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    Then you should consider voting for, or otherwise supporting, political candidates who offer more appropriate solutions and who will work to change the law in ways that will make it better.

    In the mean time, it is the law.
    Of course I do. Meantime, if you ever wonder why companies are reluctant to hire, and find ways to reduce employment, or outsource, this is one of the problems. Believe it or not, there are countries where they actually want jobs and job creators. No, seriously.
    Last edited by Benvolio; January 10th, 2014 at 07:40 PM.

  21. #271
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The law is wrong. It is not working. Worse it is counterproductive.
    Did you substantiate this anywhere ... ?

  22. #272
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Meantime, if you ever wonder why companies are reluctant to hire, and find ways to reduce employment, or outsource, this is one of the problems. Believe it or not, there are countries where they actually want jobs and job creators. No, seriously.
    I have worked with thousands of companies and their proprietors from a number of different countries – sometimes as advocate, sometimes as opponent. The lazy slogans you are repeating are just that.

  23. #273

    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Did you substantiate this anywhere ... ?
    The law was intended to compel an end to discrimination against blacks, but black unemployment has recently been level at x 14%, which does not include all those who have given up. Now, by protecting everyone, it protects no one. Worse, 75% of black children are born illegitimate, while a full third of of black men spend time in the penitentiary. [here is where you call me names].

  24. #274

    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    [QUOTE=Benvolio;9280284]The law was intended to compel an end to discrimination against blacks, but black unemployment has recently been level at x 14%, which does not include all those who have given up. Now, by protecting everyone, it protects no one. Worse, 75% of black children are born illegitimate, while a full third of of black men spend time in the penitentiary. [here is where you call me names]. I have explained below how the anti discrimination laws have the effect of working against blacks, and keeping them at the bottom .

  25. #275
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The law was intended to compel an end to discrimination against blacks, but black unemployment has recently been level at x 14%, which does not include all those who have given up. Now, by protecting everyone, it protects no one. Worse, 75% of black children are born illegitimate, while a full third of of black men spend time in the penitentiary. [here is where you call me names].
    How does simply pointing at the unemployment level during a very bad economic time "prove" anything about whether or not these policies do any good? I'm sure the white unemployment level has gone up too.

  26. #276
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Peanut is more expensive than meat. Beans cannot be considered fattening, and they re. Cheap source of complete protein with essentially no fat. The real point is obese people eat lots of food. They could save money by buying healthy food and staying thin.
    Pound for pound, peanut butter is a lot cheaper than meat -- for the price of one pound of meat, I can get a two-pound jar of peanut butter.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  27. #277
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    You clearly don't know anything, whatsoever, about nutrition. Simply cease talking about things when you are literally pulling conclusions out of your rearside.
    I do the grocery shopping for multiple people, and have been doing so for a long time. I have to agree fully with this.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I am apalled at what you think employers should go through to hire.Remember this he next time you wonder why employers send their jobs overseas or failure to hire, or look for technical improvments. Oh! What a tangled web you weave. You confirmed my position. The one who creates the position and pays the salary and benefits, and is liable for the employees acts should be allowed to choose. At will really is best. Remember, with two decades of EEOC we have 14% black unemployment. Your way does not work.
    O
    M
    G

    My sister was involved in hiring indirectly, because she taught remedial classes for prospective employees. What Opinterph described is actually a minimum for getting good employees.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  29. #279

    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    O
    M
    G

    My sister was involved in hiring indirectly, because she taught remedial classes for prospective employees. What Opinterph described is actually a minimum for getting good employees.
    It is not a system for hiring good employees. It is a system of mandatory racial discrimination in favor of groups who tend to vote democrat. White males tend to vote Republican, while minorities and to a lessor extent, women vote democrat. So, the democrats have enacted a panoply of laws mandating discrimination in favor of the democrat constituents and against White males. The most extreme was the new banking law mandating the hiring of minorities and women "to the maximum extent possible". They must, thus, avoid hiring white males to the maximum extent possible.

  30. #280
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    It is not a system for hiring good employees. It is a system of mandatory racial discrimination in favor of groups who tend to vote democrat. White males tend to vote Republican, while minorities and to a lessor extent, women vote democrat. So, the democrats have enacted a panoply of laws mandating discrimination in favor of the democrat constituents and against White males. The most extreme was the new banking law mandating the hiring of minorities and women "to the maximum extent possible". They must, thus, avoid hiring white males to the maximum extent possible.
    And since not half a page back you yourself whipped out the black unemployment rate being 14% and pushed it under our nose as something we should all be concerned about, it is now disingenuous of you to turn right around and ask us to say that policies which seek to ensure fair chance to black applicants in the job market is a bad thing.

    Besides, Benvolio--- isn't your position that the real pressure and threat to all white American jobs is from immigrants, not from blacks? Which is it?

  31. #281

    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    And since not half a page back you yourself whipped out the black unemployment rate being 14% and pushed it under our nose as something we should all be concerned about, it is now disingenuous of you to turn right around and ask us to say that policies which seek to ensure fair chance to black applicants in the job market is a bad thing.

    Besides, Benvolio--- isn't your position that the real pressure and threat to all white American jobs is from immigrants, not from blacks? Which is it?
    See # 239 below.

  32. #282
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    See # 239 below.
    In post 239 you suggest that the system works against blacks because if two minority applicants apply and only one is black, the employer can justify not hiring the black by hiring the other minority.

    What that analysis (or more accurately, supposition) overlooks is that there's no reason to believe this would not happen without fair hiring guidelines, and more reason to believe that both the minorities would be passed over in favor of the white dude in the suit who quote-unquote "looks more professional." So it's a dishonest nitpick of this system as something that "hurts blacks."

  33. #283

    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    In post 239 you suggest that the system works against blacks because if two minority applicants apply and only one is black, the employer can justify not hiring the black by hiring the other minority.

    What that analysis (or more accurately, supposition) overlooks is that there's no reason to believe this would not happen without fair hiring guidelines, and more reason to believe that both the minorities would be passed over in favor of the white dude in the suit who quote-unquote "looks more professional." So it's a dishonest nitpick of this system as something that "hurts blacks."
    Please read the last sentence of 239.

  34. #284
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Please read the last sentence of 239.
    Your evidence does not persuasively or conclusively lead to a necessary conclusion that the system hurts blacks. In fact, since in every other post you are complaining that this system encourages what you describe as "affirmative action" or "preference against whites", the reasonable conclusion is that the black unemployment rate would be higher without these guidelines-- not that it would be lower.

    What this suggests to us is that discrimination is still a fairly powerful unseen hand in the market with regard to hiring-- there is no evidence to believe this system has created higher black unemployment.

  35. #285

    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Your evidence does not persuasively or conclusively lead to a necessary conclusion that the system hurts blacks. In fact, since in every other post you are complaining that this system encourages what you describe as "affirmative action" or "preference against whites", the reasonable conclusion is that the black unemployment rate would be higher without these guidelines-- not that it would be lower.

    What this suggests to us is that discrimination is still a fairly powerful unseen hand in the market with regard to hiring-- there is no evidence to believe this system has created higher black unemployment.
    I have frequently said that the initial protection of blacks was necessary. By extending the anti discrimination protection to all minorities the law provides a justification or even a mandate for discrimination against blacks. If the law had been limited to blacks or race, many more would have benefited.

  36. #286
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I have frequently said that the initial protection of blacks was necessary. By extending the anti discrimination protection to all minorities the law provides a justification or even a mandate for discrimination against blacks. If the law had been limited to blacks or race, many more would have benefited.
    What you are doing is the equivalent of taking government loans available for minorities to start businesses and claiming it "hurts black businesses because women may use these loans as well." There is absolutely no reason to believe blacks would be better off without such loans simply because minorities other than blacks may also use the program.

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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    It is not a system for hiring good employees. It is a system of mandatory racial discrimination in favor of groups who tend to vote democrat. White males tend to vote Republican, while minorities and to a lessor extent, women vote democrat. So, the democrats have enacted a panoply of laws mandating discrimination in favor of the democrat constituents and against White males. The most extreme was the new banking law mandating the hiring of minorities and women "to the maximum extent possible". They must, thus, avoid hiring white males to the maximum extent possible.
    Where in the name of all that's rational do you get that raving rant out of this:

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    The pre-employment interview is an integral part of the testing process. In larger organizations, the interviewer is not the same person who makes the selection. In that way, the results of the interview are not biased by personal affinities or other common fallacies associated with personal appeal or preference. All pre-employment interviews should be based upon validated questions that have been pre-established and possible answers assigned a score. In some cases an answer may not have been anticipated; however, there are mechanisms to assign a relative score to such answers after the response is collected. Each recruit should be asked the same set of questions under the same technique of interview. In the end, the employer is left with a reasonable comparison of the interview results from all candidates that can then be compiled to assist in the selection process. If the objective is to hire the person best qualified to fill a position, then blind data is an excellent way to make a comparison.

    I understand that most employers take liberties during job interviews by asking inappropriate questions and allowing personal bias to influence decisions. Nonetheless, it is true that the more a firm’s methodology resembles a truly fair approach, the less likely that firm will face a challenge or related litigation. Even if a firm doesn’t wish to expend extra time and resources to ensure and document compliance with the law – the more the employer knows about proper or recommended methods, the less likely he/she is to make a mistake. It’s really not that difficult to be fair.
    ?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  38. #288
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    Re: Will unemployment benefits be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I have frequently said that the initial protection of blacks was necessary. By extending the anti discrimination protection to all minorities the law provides a justification or even a mandate for discrimination against blacks. If the law had been limited to blacks or race, many more would have benefited.
    Once more you show you're not really a lawyer -- a lawyer would know that you can't play off one minority against another without incurring penalties. The only real way to game the system is if you have one employee who fills several minority "slots", as in a ranger who used to work at a nearby state park -- she was female, native American, and lesbian, so she filled three slots by herself.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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