I don't know much about the demographic makeup of Osterreich...there may or may not be a lot of Asians, etc. - but CERTAINLY that doesn't explain the dearth of women you've noticed in their orchestra.
I usually like to call it Osterreich, because in English we have the rather strange situation where too many people mix up Austria and Australia!! I'm not aware of an alternate name for Australia. OK..."Oz" I guess...
A personal thrill early in the year (and I can't call it "THIS YEAR" anymore) was seeing a Beethoven performance in Detroit by the Youth Civic Orchestra (high school students, huge orchestra) under the tutorage of the Detroit symphony Orchestra. And yes, as expected, the group was quite varied. I'm guessing the talent comes from Detroit AND the various regional cities and suburbs as well.
BOSS: I'm sorry, but I'll have to lay you and Jack off. SUE: Can you just jack off? I feel like shit today.
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony
Customer in a bar: "I thought my vasectomy would avoid my wife's pregnancy. Apparently it only changes the color of the baby."
THE AVERAGE PERSON has one breast, and one testicle.
The gender homogeneity of the Vienna Philharmonic is well known. The first woman was admitted only 15 years ago or so. As a matter of fact, even in the US, women were enrolled by major orchestras in large numbers only with the wide-spread use of blind auditions in which the applicant performs behind a screen.
Austria is not overly diverse racially, as you note, but even the blind audition does not help with ethnic diversity. I remember hearing a report from about 20 years ago, perhaps apochraphal, that when the best audition came from a man of Japanese descent, the Philharmonic refused to hire him. Oddly, both the orchestra and the Vienna State Opera are both enormously popular in Asia, and often go there on tours.
Vienna is often seen as a historical crossroads. The diversity embodied there might well be profound, just not apparent if we are expecting visible diversity. However Austrian society also struck me as very formal and also very conservative. It is a very Catholic society as well. Perhaps women just aren't cut out for jobs as priests or violinists.
First of all the language of Austria is German so they do not call it Vienna we do. I have watched this every Jan 1st since I was very young. The announcer as they do every year mentioned that it is this orchestra not Austria that is like an old boys club. Up to 2 years or so ago there were no women now there are 9. When I originally watched this until he died the greatWalter Conkite was the announcer each year. My biggest concern is that you had no clue they speak German that is there native language. Unlike America almost everyone speaks more than one language, so if you visit this great city you will love it and have no problem getting around.
By the way as far as LGBT rights go there are some problems but unlike the U.S. from 2010 every one who wanted could have a Civil Partnership and sex between consenting adults I perfectly legal. When we went there we shared a king size bed in the hotel. In some places in the U.S. the desk clerk has tried to get us in two beds what a surprise.
No women's restrooms?
Of course, they have a unique organisation anyway.... The members of the orchestra make all of the booking of conductors and soloists, they make the decision about who to hire as colleagues, and the Philharmonic itself owns all of the instruments and lends them to the musicians rather then the musicians selecting and owning their individual equipment.
Last edited by unloadonme; January 3rd, 2014 at 02:33 PM.
There's Hildegarde of Bingen but I reckon her stuff would be equally unremarkable if it wasn't for this damned over-enhanced Dolby recordings we're getting now where the singers breath exhalations are as loud as their sung notes.
I should make an effort to listen to Elisabeth Lutyens seeing as how I'm a fan of Sir Edwin.
I have heard bits of Ethel Smythe's The Wreckers which is OK (she's a wonderful source of comedy in the Virginia Woolf letters) .
Wien is the name of the city.
Wiener in the context of Wiener Philharmoniker is 'Viennese Philharmonic'.
An orchestra should play as one team.
I don't get this current fad for 'diversity'.
Divided societies are unstable.
They're all gay...
This composer is getting really popular— on CDs but not in concert halls
First off, the title is so wrong: the thread is not about Alberti bass or counterpoint, it simple deals with some expendable musical institution.
Then, at the risk of simply appearing to throw one of those belamian quips, it seems that Vudoo just faced the uncontrovertible fact that the Austrian are nazis, and that their opposition to the German Anschluss is alike to that of antipapism in the US: they do not actually oppose and resist imposition and oppression per se as much as being denied the right to exert that imposition and oppression themselves.
The Austrian, or rather the Wiener, if you want to allow for a certain degree of decency generally outside the capital city, simply want to preserve a certain homogeneity, some self-perceived and purported traditional essence that they want to maintain pure by mere exclusion and isolation.Total passive-aggressive, no need to attack and eliminate beyond simply snubbing the impure barbarians. They are the European Japanese. No kidding.
Last edited by belamo; January 4th, 2014 at 02:09 AM. Reason: Paragraph division
And no, I have never had any bad experience/s with Austrian people never even met any of them, that I know
Now again back to the topic or, rather, the topic cloud of this thread, Vudoo is pointing at a particular case of what is general in all times and societies: even if not written down, there are habits, rules and dogmas that are maintained following a general set of prejudices and mental pampering: never occurred to you how come you never find, in old movies, a handsome and talented dancer like Eleanor Powell or Rita Hayworth, like the only great dancer available was an alien-headed closeted gay guy on whom to pin up the former sort of dancer... or why men generally disappear under the clothing when they go to a red carpet event or just any event and when they are featured in a film, or either they pass from appearingly unassumingly badly-dressed to directly expose their tits and/or asscheeks?
Even in our more open and accepting era, all the assertions and habits of our societies are build on strong, ruthless exclusions, and the stronger the less obvious and more simply deriding than aggressive they are.
I forgot to comment (there is always soooo much to comment on) that the fact that the Wiener may be very popular among certain Japanese, doesn't mean that the Japanese are not just as excluding as the other side is, and that they are just, very aloofly and civilizedly (and also very quaintly) interested in the product that lies in the middle, not in the people and the culture itself. The Philarmoniker is for them just part of their Westernalism.
So the reference to music diversity, which even beyond this thread can not fathom what actually refers to, and that reference to the English language and a particular employ of "you" seems totally out of place. But, hey, it's all simply old same us.
Again, I started my first post in this thread by pointing out that the title makes reference to "classical music", which I found rather confusing after pairing it along with "diversity", and then realized that this was not about music, but about musical ensembles and how people look and, by implication, what makes them look so.
Then you ignored that as well as what came next, which entered into the topic you seem to want to discuss... with anyone but with me, because while I keep making explicit references to all that is written here, implied and obvious, you stick to your schtick act of playing the revolted one against your fantasy wicked me.
As for the Koreans, there even less I do not know if we are talking about something actual anymore...
Last edited by opinterph; January 19th, 2014 at 09:51 AM. Reason: late edit to quoted text
….a kind of broken chord or arpeggiated accompaniment, where the notes of the chord are presented in the order lowest, highest, middle, highest......Well-known examples of Alberti bass include these...
I don't understand what arpeggiated means but this person says it's 'cheesy'
^ that video was indeed cheesy ... exasperating
When Glennie performed here, whispers went round the back stalls that she was no stranger to adultery and, indeed, another Ivo Pogorelich! —
Evelyn Glennie's Marriage Has Collapsed amid Bitter Allegations of Adultery, Tantrums and Extraordinary Egomania
Last edited by pat grimshaw; January 4th, 2014 at 06:43 PM.
The American/Jewish man committing adultery with the female drummer mentioned above said—
Female violinists should also cover their arms. "You don't want to see too much flapping about," he said. "Then there's the problem of women in trousers. If you're slightly heavy in the rear end department, it does not look too good"
As long as it is generally believed that there are talents from Mars and talents from Venus, and even talents from certain countries which are denied by nature to other nations, it is not just that history would be written or rewritten this or that way, but history will be shaped in a very definite way to be written afterwards accordingly.
If I were a conductor I'd be choosing orchestral players according to their musical ability NOT according to their genitalia.
Though some performers are chosen for their genitalia rather than musical ability
Here are some musicians who are NOT chosen for their musical ability
Lots of tears and middle-class PC people patronising the unemployable but not much musical ability
Considering JUB's typical reaction to anti-LGBT discrimination, it is absolutely incredibly how many glib and smartass answers Deja received to a question of why women are so dramatically underrepresented in classical music.
I guess if it has a vagina, we don't care about it.
^ Dejavudoo cares. . . . .
Last edited by Alnitak; February 23rd, 2014 at 12:13 AM.