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  1. #1
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    Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    First, a video:




    Then, an article:

    http://www.mpbn.net/Home/tabid/36/ct...2/Default.aspx


    These are just about marijuana. The official line continues to be that it's dangerous -- but that's really an official lie, because they've got the danger wrong: marijuana is dangerous because the government uses it as a weapon to ruin people's lives.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Two biggest mistakes

    1) Talking

    You CAN'T get out of an arrest by reasoning with the police. They don't care, and what you say WILL be used against you. Your lawyer will NOT be able to get the police to testify in your favor during trial even if you say something in your favor at the time of arrest or interrogation. It is against the federal rules of evidence, and the rules of most states. During interrogation, police will use all sorts of tactics to get you to talk without an attorney. Don't fall for any of them. In addition, due to recent case law at the US Supreme Court, it is a good idea to give notice that you are invoking your right under the 5th Amendment.

    2) Admitting Guilt

    A quarter of suspects admit guilt before trial. That is still evidence even if the police doesn't show up to your trial. It won't help, it can't help, so don't do it. An apology, by the way, is a confession. There is nothing to be sorry for if you did nothing wrong, right?

    Just as a personal anecdote, beyond pleasantries, I am completely silent during traffic stops. The cop WILL go back to his patrol car and type of EVERYTHING you just said. If you are nasty, the judge is going to throw the book at you.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 27th, 2013 at 12:45 PM.

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    The so-called "war on drugs" is the biggest and most costly scam ever perpetrated on the American people. The cost of it alone has surpassed any entitlement known to man. The lives it has ruined are legion. It serves no purpose but to enrich the lawyers, the courts and the taxpayers who keep paying to build more jails to foster this money machine in perpetuity. Ever notice how they widely broadcast a million dollar pot bust but forget to tell you that it cost the taxpayers billions to orchestrate the bust. The war on drugs is big business and an utter failure. There are more drugs in this country today than at any point in the past 50 years.

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Orlandude View Post
    The so-called "war on drugs" is the biggest and most costly scam ever perpetrated on the American people. The cost of it alone has surpassed any entitlement known to man. The lives it has ruined are legion. It serves no purpose but to enrich the lawyers, the courts and the taxpayers who keep paying to build more jails to foster this money machine in perpetuity. Ever notice how they widely broadcast a million dollar pot bust but forget to tell you that it cost the taxpayers billions to orchestrate the bust. The war on drugs is big business and an utter failure. There are more drugs in this country today than at any point in the past 50 years.
    The hard ones though do ruin individual lives, families, communities, and world peace. Heroin is among the worst. Both heroin and cocaine and their precursors fund conflict around the world, especially in Colombia and Afghanistan. Drug users aren't just hurting themselves. They have blood on their hands being accomplice to conflict, murder, and war crimes, just as patronizers of blood diamonds.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 27th, 2013 at 02:58 PM.

  5. #5

    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    The hard ones though do ruin individual lives, families, communities, and world peace. Heroin is among the worst. Both heroin and cocaine and their precursors fund conflict around the world, especially in Colombia and Afghanistan.Drug users aren't just hurting themselves. They have blood on their hands being accomplice to conflict, murder, and war crimes, just as patronizers of blood diamonds.
    And yet, the CIA backs ruthless dictatorships--sometimes even going as far as to overthrow democratically elected governments--in the name of national security. So explain to mean how the drug war benefits national security?

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    The biggest drug dealer on the planet having a "War on Drugs"...reminds me of The Fight Club.

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    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Vitamin View Post
    And yet, the CIA backs ruthless dictatorships--sometimes even going as far as to overthrow democratically elected governments--in the name of national security. So explain to mean how the drug war benefits national security?
    I wasn't offering a critique of the war on drugs per se. Cessation of hard drugs has to come through culture, public shaming, education for the young and old, positive role models, and for children good parenting, and especially through schools.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 27th, 2013 at 04:38 PM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    C. I. A. = Central IntelligContraband Importing Agency.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
    "But, hey, who cares about women and their rights when the religious liberty of a nationwide chain of arts and crafts stores is at stake?" - Daily Kos, 30 June 2014
    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    The hard ones though do ruin individual lives, families, communities, and world peace. Heroin is among the worst. Both heroin and cocaine and their precursors fund conflict around the world, especially in Colombia and Afghanistan. Drug users aren't just hurting themselves. They have blood on their hands being accomplice to conflict, murder, and war crimes, just as patronizers of blood diamonds.
    They have very little blood on their hands. Were it not for the "War on Drugs", the prices would plummet, making those crops far less useful to fund anything except an ordinary business. The real accomplices to all the violence are government officials and those who passed the laws.

    And as for ruining lives, Jacob Sullum demonstrates in his book Saying Yes that the government is lying about its own data, and the devastation from even heroin and cocaine is far less than they've been trying to convince us.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Vitamin View Post
    And yet, the CIA backs ruthless dictatorships--sometimes even going as far as to overthrow democratically elected governments--in the name of national security. So explain to mean how the drug war benefits national security?
    It doesn't -- in fact there is evidence that it has quite the opposite effect: the same routes devised by drug smugglers to get into this country can be used by terrorists, for a fee; the drug gangs don't care as long as it doesn't cut into their profit.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  11. #11
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    I wasn't offering a critique of the war on drugs per se. Cessation of hard drugs has to come through culture, public shaming, education for the young and old, positive role models, and for children good parenting, and especially through schools.
    That seems to be happening -- recent study has shown that teens are abandoning the more destructive drugs, including alcohol, in favor of marijuana.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  12. #12

    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    It was / is a waste of time, many ruined lives and flushed countless millions of dollars down the drain.

    Hopefully President Obama will toss out this vestige of the Reagan era.

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    In addition, due to recent case law at the US Supreme Court, it is a good idea to give notice that you are invoking your right under the 5th Amendment.
    It is my understanding that once an accused person invokes his or her 5th Amendment right as a means to avoid answering questions, it is imperative that he or she refrains from answering subsequent questions of any nature whatsoever. In other words, IF you respond to questioning AFTER invoking your 5th Amendment right, that is arguably legal notice that you have abandoned your previous intent to use that right to avoid answering questions.

    Am I incorrect, or is that your understanding as well?

    Adjunct: Is the situation at trial different from the situation a person may encounter as a not-yet-charged suspect?

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    It was / is a waste of time, many ruined lives and flushed countless millions of dollars down the drain.

    Hopefully President Obama will toss out this vestige of the Reagan era.
    The US has spent over a trillion dollars directly on the "War on Drugs"; the amount on "collateral damage", i.e. dealing with all the crime that "War" has generated, is at least that much again.

    That's a significant portion of the national debt. To look at it another way: just how many young people could have been diverted into more productive lives through work and training programs with that amount of money?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  15. #15
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    It is my understanding that once an accused person invokes his or her 5th Amendment right as a means to avoid answering questions, it is imperative that he or she refrains from answering subsequent questions of any nature whatsoever. In other words, IF you respond to questioning AFTER invoking your 5th Amendment right, that is arguably legal notice that you have abandoned your previous intent to use that right to avoid answering questions.

    Am I incorrect, or is that your understanding as well?

    Adjunct: Is the situation at trial different from the situation a person may encounter as a not-yet-charged suspect?
    I stumbled on a web site that had a card printed up that you could order, which states that due to advice from the US Supreme Court you would be saying nothing to the police at all, and that if they were not intending to charge you with a crime to let you go on your way. The advice was hand them the card, and then no matter what else they do or say, just point to the card, saying nothing at all.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  16. #16
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    It is my understanding that once an accused person invokes his or her 5th Amendment right as a means to avoid answering questions, it is imperative that he or she refrains from answering subsequent questions of any nature whatsoever. In other words, IF you respond to questioning AFTER invoking your 5th Amendment right, that is arguably legal notice that you have abandoned your previous intent to use that right to avoid answering questions.

    Am I incorrect, or is that your understanding as well?
    If you open your mouth that is notice that you have abandoned the 5th Amendment at that point.

    I would not answer any question before or after, or say anything at all for that matter, without legal counsel. It is the advise of an attorney, and an attorney only whom you have retained, that you should rely on interacting with prosecution.

    Adjunct: Is the situation at trial different from the situation a person may encounter as a not-yet-charged suspect?
    Testimony during trial is coming from your own mouth to the jury. It is not hearsay from the police.

    But you are allowed to invoke the 5th Amendment in any situation, even during trial, not that juries appreciate that the 5th Amendment is meant to protect the innocent as well as the guilty.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 27th, 2013 at 10:26 PM.

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    If you open your mouth that is notice that you have abandoned the 5th Amendment at that point.
    What if a police officer at the precinct station asks if you'd like a cup of coffee?

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    What if a police officer at the precinct station asks if you'd like a cup of coffee?
    Ha. I think that is pretty irrelevant to the question of incrimination. Is the crime related to a coffee addiction? Remember if you say nothing the police cannot say you did and misinterpret it.

    Anyway I meant to cite the federal rules of evidence 801 (c)(1). A statement is not hearsay if made during trial. And the infamous rule "can and will be used against you" but not for you in subsection (d)(2)(A) is not hearsay even if made outside of trial, e.g. during arrest. In other words, the police are allowed to introduce hearsay evidence so long as it is only against you. Lovely criminal justice system we have...
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 27th, 2013 at 10:41 PM.

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Testimony during trial is coming from your own mouth to the jury. It is not hearsay from the police.

    But you are allowed to invoke the 5th Amendment in any situation, even during trial, not that juries appreciate that the 5th Amendment is meant to protect the innocent as well as the guilty.
    I invoked the Fifth once in a hearing I got dragged into. The D.A. wanted the judge to order me to take a polygraph to answer a bunch of leading questions, and --when the judge asked me to explain -- I said that it was pointless because if there were anything against me it would be useless. He asked if I expected there to be anything the D.A. might want to act on, and I answered that it didn't matter, that just like everyone (I waved at the rest of the courtroom) my life was mine and not something a prosecutor could just decide to pry into. I actually got applauded, and so did the judge when he ruled that they couldn't require me to take a polygraph, and that furthermore I didn't have to answer any more questions from the D.A.

    All I'd answered to that point was name and age and address, stuff that the court required and was public record anyway.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Ha. I think that is pretty irrelevant to the question of incrimination. Is the crime related to a coffee addiction? Remember if you say nothing the police cannot say you did and misinterpret it.

    Anyway I meant to cite the federal rules of evidence 801 (c)(1). A statement is not hearsay if made during trial. And the infamous rule "can and will be used against you" but not for you in subsection (d)(2)(A) is not hearsay even if made outside of trial, e.g. during arrest.
    I knew a guy who gave smart-ass answers to questions cops asked each other or rhetorically in hopes of provoking a response. For a question like that, he'd have said something like, "In the future, coffee will cure cancer, and everyone will want a cup". If he'd been accused of being disrespectful, he;d have proclaimed something like, "The wind blows the feather free, and it is gone, but the wind does not disrespect the bird".

    I always wondered how he came up with stuff like that on the spur of the moment. He claimed it was a gift; his GF said he must have licked spray paint from the nozzle when he was a kid.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I knew a guy who gave smart-ass answers to questions cops asked each other or rhetorically in hopes of provoking a response. For a question like that, he'd have said something like, "In the future, coffee will cure cancer, and everyone will want a cup". If he'd been accused of being disrespectful, he;d have proclaimed something like, "The wind blows the feather free, and it is gone, but the wind does not disrespect the bird".

    I always wondered how he came up with stuff like that on the spur of the moment. He claimed it was a gift; his GF said he must have licked spray paint from the nozzle when he was a kid.

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Ha. I think that is pretty irrelevant to the question of incrimination.
    Maybe this underlying issue needs more exploration/explanation.

    I do think that once the 5th is invoked at trial, the witness/accused/defendant is “disallowed” from answering ANY further questions, including such innocuous things as “What is your name?”


    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The D.A. wanted the judge to order me to take a polygraph
    That’s got red flags all over it.

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Maybe I will watch those movies....... finally.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    That’s got red flags all over it.
    I know. Supposedly they were investigating some kid I knew, but . . . .

    The good thing after that answer was that later I was informed the grand jury wasn't interested in having me show up.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    Maybe this underlying issue needs more exploration/explanation.

    I do think that once the 5th is invoked at trial, the witness/accused/defendant is “disallowed” from answering ANY further questions, including such innocuous things as “What is your name?”
    Yes this is where my own understanding becomes murky, because it is not entirely resolved by the courts either. The classes of testifiers do not all have the same rights, and they are not the same state to state.

    Witnesses are granted more leeway in invoking the 5th Amendment on a question by question basis, while I believe that once the suspect has waived it that's it. However, judges can weigh whether the invocation by the witness is truly made for the stated reasons of protecting against self incrimination, as that is all the Constitution guards against.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 27th, 2013 at 11:03 PM.

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post

    These are just about marijuana. The official line continues to be that it's dangerous -- but that's really an official lie, because they've got the danger wrong: marijuana is dangerous because the government uses it as a weapon to ruin people's lives.
    I wanted to add...their phony war does real damage to a lot of people when they need help the most....

    I just had this topic come up again in my shop when I was talking with a couple about Joan Baez...and then I thought about Peter (Baez)...he was Joan's cousin...and he was also a very intense and courageous advocate for AIDS patients and anyone else who needed medical marijuana...he died (RIP Pete) and I (think) his BF died as well..I knew both of them.

    http://a2c2.us/2012/09/03/r-i-p-pete...nnabis-center/

    ...and the reason I am bringing this up is because I was reminded of the real victims of the "War on Drugs" and that is all of the cancer and AIDS patients and the millions of people suffering from other chronic pain and illnesses...I have to have a medical marijuana card myself because with Plavix and aspirin everyday my blood is thin and when I am in pain if I took a motrin or even more aspirin I could bleed internally...a marijuana cookie does the trick in a few minutes.

    Sometimes I think we are all more beholden to the corporations...in this case the pharmaceutical companies...than we ever truly realize.

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    That is horrible.
    Where is the justice? And who are making the money for these arrests ?


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  28. #28
    JUB Addict Zingerific's Avatar
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Cessation of hard drugs has to come through culture, public shaming, education for the young and old, positive role models, and for children good parenting, and especially through schools.
    I'm not quite sure what you mean by "public shaming." My understanding is that shaming is counterproductive, in that people are too ashamed to seek out treatment due to the stigma involved.
    Last edited by opinterph; December 29th, 2013 at 10:33 AM. Reason: added attribution
    "If you don't have anything nice to say... come sit next to me."
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    That is horrible.
    Where is the justice? And who are making the money for these arrests ?
    Money -- the police departments make money when they seize things under drug laws, and don't have to give them back even if the person is found not guilty.

    The police are paid in points or credits for making arrests -- and they don't lose points if one of the people they arrested is found not guilty.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The police are paid in points or credits for making arrests
    Are you sure about that? Can you provide an example?

    [Career Enhancement Pay] is a 4 tiered bonus pay program that is based on an accumulation of points derived from … (City of Phoenix Police Department)
    Arrests represent costly effort in crime solving, in the arrest procedure, and in the subsequent paperwork. Police departments often base their own internal evaluations on the number of arrests. (National Bureau of Economic Research)

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Money -- the police departments make money when they seize things under drug laws, and don't have to give them back even if the person is found not guilty.

    The police are paid in points or credits for making arrests -- and they don't lose points if one of the people they arrested is found not guilty.
    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    Are you sure about that? Can you provide an example?
    I cannot site objective evidence to support this, but I do believe Kuli is quite correct about this.

    5% of Obamacare, for example, is to be paid for by fining physicians for "violations" of laws relating to the war on drugs. That means that it does not matter whether or not reasonably punishable offences have occurred. If they have not occurred, then the offences will have to be "manufactured" to cover the costs of Obamacare.

    For example, if a drug closet in a physician office happens to be found unlocked, there is not a single fine for the "oversight" of leaving the closet unlocked. There is a fine for every dose of drug present inside the closet. There are typically thousands of pills present in such a closet. So the fine for even leaving the door unlocked for a few moments can be hundreds of thousands of dollars. It is not that anyone got hurt or even that anyone's health was put even slightly at risk. The problem is that the bill needs to be paid. So, pressure will be applied to get the job done. And, whether or not police departments choose to acknowledge it, it is really impossible for officers who are "finding" these heinous violations and bringing in the money big time not to be acknowledged or rewarded in some way for their "diligence."

    It goes beyond absurd. I know personally of a physician who was threatened with a fine (it did not actually materialize) because he carried a drug from his sample closet to the patient examination room, to give it to the patient. The doctor was told he was not the patient, so his "possession" of the drug from its transport from the sample closet to the examination room was illegal.

    Yes, it is that ridiculous.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; December 29th, 2013 at 03:23 PM.

  32. #32
    Are u haleloo ya ? Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Money -- the police departments make money when they seize things under drug laws, and don't have to give them back even if the person is found not guilty.

    The police are paid in points or credits for making arrests -- and they don't lose points if one of the people they arrested is found not guilty.
    That can be corrupted easily by arresting anyone poor.


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    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    the fine for even leaving the door unlocked for a few moments can be hundreds of thousands of dollars.
    I’ve searched for relevant information and have been unsuccessful finding anything to support your statement. Gotta link?

  34. #34
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The US has spent over a trillion dollars directly on the "War on Drugs"; the amount on "collateral damage", i.e. dealing with all the crime that "War" has generated, is at least that much again.
    More collateral damage, as well, considering the losses of millions of jobs, destruction of families and lives, a police record, perhaps never being able to vote again, etc. - even if prison is not involved.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
    "But, hey, who cares about women and their rights when the religious liberty of a nationwide chain of arts and crafts stores is at stake?" - Daily Kos, 30 June 2014
    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Because people own their bodies, they have the right to do as they choose. One can argue that drug users have a limited capacity to make rational decisions. Alcoholics will continue on drinking, even if their careers and family lives are destroyed because of it. Many people will harbor marijuana, even if the law prohibits it. If the reason to send people to jail is that marijuana is harmful, then people who smoke cigars should be sent to jail. In fact, anyone who is addicted to over-the-counter drugs or alcohol should be sent to jail. I disagree. Drug users should probably be sent to rehab centers, not jails, just like people who drop out of middle school and refuse to get jobs should not be sent to jails.

    I agree that the methods used in this "Drug war" are evil. People shouldn't be sent to jail for smoking pot. However, it's one thing to say that the justice system is wrong and another to say that smoking marijuana and cigars or drinking excess alcohol is right.

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    Are you sure about that? Can you provide an example?
    I think there are some here:

    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/thre...=1#post9245863


    But it's everywhere I've been; despite the fact that courts have repeatedly told police to stop using quota or points systems, they just change the words and keep on doing it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  37. #37
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyFlip View Post
    Because people own their bodies, they have the right to do as they choose. One can argue that drug users have a limited capacity to make rational decisions. Alcoholics will continue on drinking, even if their careers and family lives are destroyed because of it. Many people will harbor marijuana, even if the law prohibits it. If the reason to send people to jail is that marijuana is harmful, then people who smoke cigars should be sent to jail. In fact, anyone who is addicted to over-the-counter drugs or alcohol should be sent to jail. I disagree. Drug users should probably be sent to rehab centers, not jails, just like people who drop out of middle school and refuse to get jobs should not be sent to jails.

    I agree that the methods used in this "Drug war" are evil. People shouldn't be sent to jail for smoking pot. However, it's one thing to say that the justice system is wrong and another to say that smoking marijuana and cigars or drinking excess alcohol is right.
    I agree the war on drugs is bad but I think this argument for it is poor. By this logic should hospital grade morpheine and similarly powerful chemicals be widely available for public purchase?

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    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The police are paid in points or credits for making arrests
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    Are you sure about that? Can you provide an example?
    I think there are some here:

    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/thre...=1#post9245863

    When you use the term “paid,” I presume you are referring to an element of monetary employment compensation?

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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    xbuzzerx

    I simply stated "that the justice system is wrong." Not once have I intended to say that all drugs should all be made available. If you are referring to the first few sentences, I didn't type it well. Sorry. It should have been "some think that because people own their bodies, they have the right to do as they choose. However, one can argue that drug users have a limited capacity to make rational (responsible) decisions." Alcoholics will destroy their lives. I was simply stating the damages drugs and alcohol can cause, despite people's claims for 'personal responsibility.'

  40. #40
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    When you use the term “paid,” I presume you are referring to an element of monetary employment compensation?
    Well, they're paid in points, and points translate to pay raises or, more commonly, advancement (which brings pay raises).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  41. #41
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Well, they're paid in points, and points translate to pay raises or, more commonly, advancement (which brings pay raises).
    You have yet to provide any substantive evidence to support your claim that law enforcement officers are compensated according to a system that is based upon the volume of arrests they undertake.

  42. #42
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    You have yet to provide any substantive evidence to support your claim that law enforcement officers are compensated according to a system that is based upon the volume of arrests they undertake.
    I thought the link was in this thread, but I must have posted it in a different one. It clearly said that career advancement depends directly on the number of arrests made.

    I just spent twenty minutes trying to find it, but I give up -- Harry Potter is distracting.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  43. #43
    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: Why the "War on Drugs" is evil

    The only group that actually supports the "war on drugs" is the right. Libertarians and leftists support decriminalization. I say just decriminalize them like alcohol and tax it to the high heavens like all other vices.

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