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  1. #101
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The problem is that other countries are now setting the price at which drug companies can sell, and often do not allow a recovery for R-and D, with the result that Americans pay more than in other countries. My solution is not setting the price, but prohibiting price discrimination.
    Ah, so by this argument, Americans pay less for their name brand sneakers when production costs drop because the construction was all moved to China, yes?

    Right.

    And that's something with elastic demand, which medical care and medicines are inelastic.

  2. #102

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Times have changed. The frontier is gone. We have high unemployment and millions in a permanent underclass. Immigration no longer serves any purpose with the exception of a few doctors and scientists

  3. #103
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Times have changed. The frontier is gone. We have high unemployment and millions in a permanent underclass. Immigration no longer serves any purpose with the exception of a few doctors and scientists
    What does any of this have to do with the cost of medication.

  4. #104

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    What does any of this have to do with the cost of medication.
    Nothing really. I was responding tp T-Rexx.

  5. #105
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Not quite; in a large urban area where there are a number of hospitals, people will choose between them based on a variety of factors. The only time they really resemble a monopoly is in emergency situations where a few minutes transit time can make a difference. like...
    Not true.

    If you are a billionaire and want to build a hospital for your community, you are not free to do so anywhere.

    You must demonstrate to the state that your hospital will not simply redundantly recreate medical services already extant within the community. You must demonstrate that your hospital will provide services to a population which are not available to that population now.

    It is true that many large cities have hospitals across the street from each other. But, this is for historical and religious reasons that have nothing to do with the current medical industry.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    A telling point is that even where market forces can make a difference in medical care, Republicans didn't propose them.
    One of the weird things about the Obamcare debate has been the insistence by Republicans that their own ideas are stupid and unworkable.

    I could not agree more.

  6. #106
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Of course, it must be disclosed to the FDA and the patent office, but it should [otherwise] be [confidential] for the patent period.
    All this talk of patents, monopolies, and profit reminds me of my hometown’s world famous soft drink.

    Coca-Cola was invented as an elixir “to make the world happier.” It was made from coca leaves, kola nuts, and some other stuff. Fearing bad publicity and possible government regulation, the company starting removing the cocaine in 1901.

    What’s interesting is that we still don’t know the secret of how it’s made.

    Coca-Cola, for example, has no patent for its formula and has been very effective in protecting it for many more years than the twenty years of protection that a patent would have provided. In fact, Coca-Cola refused to reveal its trade secret under at least two judges' orders. [Wiki]

  7. #107
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Times have changed. The frontier is gone. We have high unemployment and millions in a permanent underclass. Immigration no longer serves any purpose with the exception of a few doctors and scientists
    In other words, immigration used to be good (like, for example, when it was your grandparents), but now it's bad.


  8. #108

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    In other words, immigration used to be good (like, for example, when it was your grandparents), but now it's bad.

    Apparently immigration is bad if it's anyone who isn't a white English speaking wealthy christian family, preferably of northern European ancestry.

  9. #109
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Apparently immigration is bad if it's anyone who isn't a white English speaking wealthy christian family, preferably of northern European ancestry.
    Yeah but at the same time, anyone who takes his stance that immigration "used to be better" and good for the country, and now is bad, is ignoring the fact that immigrants of yesteryear were every bit as much the unskilled poverty-ridden crime-prone trash of the world labor supply as anyone could possibly argue that any immigrants today are. And the rhetoric and social concern domestically about the influences they were bringing into the country were NO less vehement, and NO less serious, than the ones Benvolio appears to genuinely hold about the present generation of immigrants. And yet the U.S. failed to collapse under a morass of debt and unproductivity, and failed to be overriden with Papacy and forced fealty to Rome and the Pope, and all the other ridiculous fears people genuinely held, even when its proportion of foreign-born residents dwarfed the proportion extant today back around the turn of the 20th century.
    Last edited by xbuzzerx; December 31st, 2013 at 05:31 PM.

  10. #110

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Apparently immigration is bad if it's anyone who isn't a white English speaking wealthy christian family, preferably of northern European ancestry.
    Immigration hurts minorities more than whites. Unemployment among blacks is about 14%, and many have stopped looking. Many more are in low pay jobs with salaries held down by competition from immigrants legal and illegal.

  11. #111
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Immigration hurts minorities more than whites. Unemployment among blacks is about 14%, and many have stopped looking. Many more are in low pay jobs with salaries held down by competition from immigrants legal and illegal.
    It is true that immigrants wind up in competition with the lowest / most economically disadvantaged native-born. But at the same time, I struggle to see your concern for racial socioeconomic parity in any context outside of condemning Latino immigration.

  12. #112

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    It is true that immigrants wind up in competition with the lowest / most economically disadvantaged native-born. But at the same time, I struggle to see your concern for racial socioeconomic parity in any context outside of condemning Latino immigration.
    I fail to see any concern at all by the liberals beyond their desire to pull down the rich. I am not at all concerned by parity or inequality as such, which is irrelevant. But we should be concerned by poverty, which is caused by policies which, if reversed would have an immediate effect. Beyond that every problem we have is adversely affected by immigration: poverty, wages, environment, crime, education and, yes, the income gap.

  13. #113
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I fail to see any concern at all by the liberals beyond their desire to pull down the rich. I am not at all concerned by parity or inequality as such, which is irrelevant. But we should be concerned by poverty, which is caused by policies which, if reversed would have an immediate effect. Beyond that every problem we have is adversely affected by immigration: poverty, wages, environment, crime, education and, yes, the income gap.
    You live in an imaginary fantasy world where everyone at the bottom can rise up while people at the top continue to have disproportionate access, control and acquisition of an enormous proportion of all wealth and income and money.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	if+us+land+were+divided+like+us+wealth.jpg 
Views:	110 
Size:	26.1 KB 
ID:	1013079


    You believe this picture can change while the people owning almost all of it keep it or get more. You also seem to believe the 90% having more than they do would somehow utterly destroy the top 10% catastrophically.

    When you have a real way that you can make this happen, go pitch it to economists and win a Nobel prize.

  14. #114
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    … we should be concerned by poverty, which is caused by policies which, if reversed would have an immediate effect.
    I agree. Minimum wage will probably get a much-needed correction next year. That’s at least a step in the right direction.

  15. #115
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    I agree. Minimum wage will probably get a much-needed correction next year. That’s at least a step in the right direction.
    He thinks that is bad, but forcing wages up to that level by artificially creating a labor shortage through our immigration policies would be good. With the added benefit I suppose of eliminating threats to our superior culture by an inferior one.
    Last edited by xbuzzerx; December 31st, 2013 at 05:59 PM.

  16. #116

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    You live in an imaginary fantasy world where everyone at the bottom can rise up while people at the top continue to have disproportionate access, control and acquisition of an enormous proportion of all wealth and income and money.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	if+us+land+were+divided+like+us+wealth.jpg 
Views:	110 
Size:	26.1 KB 
ID:	1013079


    You believe this picture can change while the people owning almost all of it keep it or get more. You also seem to believe the 90% having more than they do would somehow utterly destroy the top 10% catastrophically.

    When you have a real way that you can make this happen, go pitch it to economists and win a Nobel prize.
    You do not win Nobel prizes for designing catastrophes.
    Last edited by Benvolio; December 31st, 2013 at 06:01 PM.

  17. #117
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You do not win Nobel prizes for designing catastrohies.
    Your concern for lower income minorities in this country is disingenuous. Just like how you happily defended the colonization of the Americas (the influx of a hostile alien culture in great masses, often violent) and turn right around with a straight face and have the gall to say that what happened to the Native Americans is the reason we liberals should be supporting your immigration ideas.

    Do you think you fool anyone with this stuff?

  18. #118

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Your concern for lower income minorities in this country is disingenuous. Just like how you happily defended the colonization of the Americas (the influx of a hostile alien culture in great masses, often violent) and turn right around with a straight face and have the gall to say that what happened to the Native Americans is the reason we liberals should be supporting your immigration ideas.

    Do you think you fool anyone with this stuff?
    That is a total misrepresentation of what I have said.

  19. #119
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    That is a total misrepresentation of what I have said.
    I wish it was.

  20. #120
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Yeah but at the same time, anyone who takes his stance that immigration "used to be better" and good for the country, and now is bad, is ignoring the fact that immigrants of yesteryear were every bit as much the unskilled poverty-ridden crime-prone trash of the world labor supply as anyone could possibly argue that any immigrants today are. And the rhetoric and social concern domestically about the influences they were bringing into the country were NO less vehement, and NO less serious, than the ones Benvolio appears to genuinely hold about the present generation of immigrants. And yet the U.S. failed to collapse under a morass of debt and unproductivity, and failed to be overriden with Papacy and forced fealty to Rome and the Pope, and all the other ridiculous fears people genuinely held, even when its proportion of foreign-born residents dwarfed the proportion extant today back around the turn of the 20th century.
    The frontier argument, however, has a point in that in prior times you could get free land by settling on it and make a life for yourself without need for a great deal of technical skill. OTOH, we've had a great deal of immigration since the frontier was closed, and the result has in general been beneficial. SO while the frontier argument has a certain strength in that anyone unemployed could theoretically have gone out and started a new life on a new land, it is not compelling. Of far more possible importance is the fact that many indications point to an emerging trend toward an economy that requires only a minimum of human labor at all.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #121
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The frontier argument, however, has a point in that in prior times you could get free land by settling on it and make a life for yourself without need for a great deal of technical skill. OTOH, we've had a great deal of immigration since the frontier was closed, and the result has in general been beneficial. SO while the frontier argument has a certain strength in that anyone unemployed could theoretically have gone out and started a new life on a new land, it is not compelling. Of far more possible importance is the fact that many indications point to an emerging trend toward an economy that requires only a minimum of human labor at all.
    It's even less compelling when you look at the number of Irish and Italians who never left the eastern seaboard and, of those who did, how many of them did manual hard labor in coal mines or railroads, rather than going out and staking claim on land and building a farm with no skills.

  22. #122

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The frontier argument, however, has a point in that in prior times you could get free land by settling on it and make a life for yourself without need for a great deal of technical skill. OTOH, we've had a great deal of immigration since the frontier was closed, and the result has in general been beneficial. SO while the frontier argument has a certain strength in that anyone unemployed could theoretically have gone out and started a new life on a new land, it is not compelling. Of far more possible importance is the fact that many indications point to an emerging trend toward an economy that requires only a minimum of human labor at all.
    Finally!! We agree on something.

  23. #123
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Your concern for lower income minorities in this country is disingenuous. Just like how you happily defended the colonization of the Americas (the influx of a hostile alien culture in great masses, often violent) and turn right around with a straight face and have the gall to say that what happened to the Native Americans is the reason we liberals should be supporting your immigration ideas.

    Do you think you fool anyone with this stuff?
    Nice point: if it was okay for all the Europeans to come over and steal my ancestors' land, then it's perfectly fine for anyone who wishes to and can get away with it to sneak into this country and grab a piece.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  24. #124
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    It's even less compelling when you look at the number of Irish and Italians who never left the eastern seaboard and, of those who did, how many of them did manual hard labor in coal mines or railroads, rather than going out and staking claim on land and building a farm with no skills.
    In many cases Irish immigrants had the skills to successfully work the land, but they lacked capital to get started.

  25. #125
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Nice point: if it was okay for all the Europeans to come over and steal my ancestors' land, then it's perfectly fine for anyone who wishes to and can get away with it to sneak into this country and grab a piece.
    Well yeah! If we use the exact same logic, any harm being done to white Americans in the U.S. is simply the result of a more adaptive, more flexible, more fit people outcompeting them. So what's the problem?

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    It's even less compelling when you look at the number of Irish and Italians who never left the eastern seaboard and, of those who did, how many of them did manual hard labor in coal mines or railroads, rather than going out and staking claim on land and building a farm with no skills.
    Exactly -- that's why the frontier argument carries very little weight.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  27. #127
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    In many cases Irish immigrants had the skills to successfully work the land, but they lacked capital to get started.
    Which demonstrates a basic effect of capitalism: to exclude those with few assets.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  28. #128
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    In many cases Irish immigrants had the skills to successfully work the land, but they lacked capital to get started.
    Right, I badly worded it. I meant they didn't come in as educated professionals ready to immediately contribute to a middle class economy alongside native born middle class whites, not that they lacked farm skills.

  29. #129
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Finally!! We agree on something.
    Yeah, on the order of agreeing that a Rubik's Cube has colors. It doesn't have much at all to do with solving it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  30. #130

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Which demonstrates a basic effect of capitalism: to exclude those with few assets.
    Nonsense. A huge portion of big businesses were started by individuals or groups with little or no capital. Bill Gates started in his garage. Apple started as small. The Internet companies needed little capital. Socialism excludes every one. Worse, it nationalizes the efforts of people who built businesses.

  31. #131

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Yeah, on the order of agreeing that a Rubik's Cube has colors. It doesn't have much at all to do with solving it.
    Of course it does. If we need less labor, stop the immigration.

  32. #132
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Nonsense. A huge portion of big businesses were started by individuals or groups with little or no capital. Bill Gates started in his garage. Apple started as small. The Internet companies needed little capital. Socialism excludes every one. Worse, it nationalizes the efforts of people who built businesses.
    You make it sound like the family that started Wal*Mart hangs by the mailbox everyday waiting for their check to come in in great anxiety.

  33. #133

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Well yeah! If we use the exact same logic, any harm being done to white Americans in the U.S. is simply the result of a more adaptive, more flexible, more fit people outcompeting them. So what's the problem?
    No, much of the harm to Americans is from the liberals, using the immigrants.. Boo hoo we have more poor people. We need to confiscate from Americans to give food, and health care and jobs and education to aii those poor people.

  34. #134
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No, much of the harm to Americans is from the liberals, using the immigrants.. Boo hoo we have more poor people. We need to confiscate from Americans to give food, and health care and jobs and education to aii those poor people.
    How do you say this with a straight face when the people profiting off immigrant labor are overwhelmingly Republican campaign contributors?

    What liberals say is if you employ people here, pay them decently and give them reasonable benefits.

    What conservatives say is if you damn liberals demand that with laws or unions we'll just hire illegals or move overseas. And they defend it with ridiculous Reaganomic concepts that if you just let employers and corporations do things as cheaply as possible and make huge profits, jobs will magically be created.

    The problem with your whole "if you just get rid of immigrants, so many economic problems will solve themselves" is it assumed companies ever just start paying more to employees for fun, and don't have to be forced to it by organized labor or other things you revile.

  35. #135

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    You make it sound like the family that started Wal*Mart hangs by the mailbox everyday waiting for their check to come in in great anxiety.
    No, but their father with very little.

  36. #136
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No, but their father with very little.
    Look at this line:

    Worse, it nationalizes the efforts of people who built businesses.
    To whom are you referring, the family that originally started Wal*Mart x decades ago, and are living as filthy uber-rich today?

    Or are you talking about the millions of people who have worked over all these many years at various Wal*Marts, for low pay and often no benefits, whom apparently you feel neither their employers NOR the government should have to cover at all?

    I suppose those people not being paid enough to cover 100% of their healthcare and retirement costs was merely personal irresponsibility on all of their parts?

  37. #137

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    How do you say this with a straight face when the people profiting off immigrant labor are overwhelmingly Republican campaign contributors?

    What liberals say is if you employ people here, pay them decently and give them reasonable benefits.

    What conservatives say is if you damn liberals demand that with laws or unions we'll just hire illegals or move overseas. And they defend it with ridiculous Reaganomic concepts that if you just let employers and corporations do things as cheaply as possible and make huge profits, jobs will magically be created.

    The problem with your whole "if you just get rid of immigrants, so many economic problems will solve themselves" is it assumed companies ever just start paying more to employees for fun, and don't have to be forced to it by organized labor or other things you revile.
    No, Republicans continually fight to limit immigration, while democrats block all attempts. The biggest item on the democrat agenda now is amnesty, employment legality, and early voting rights for the 11 million or so illegals.
    By simple supply and demand, if we stop immigration, employers will have to compete for employees and wages will rise. Economics 101.
    Last edited by Benvolio; December 31st, 2013 at 07:13 PM.

  38. #138
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No, Republicans continually fight to limit immigration, while democrats block all attempts.
    Republicans do that for their idiot voting base while relaxing all enforcement of social security checks for payroll. I work in an accounting office. All of our small restaurant clients who had illegal workers in the kitchen had to start supplying real SS #'s after Bush was out of office. It slid for that entire time with repeated bounces. No penalties.

  39. #139
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Nonsense. A huge portion of big businesses were started by individuals or groups with little or no capital. Bill Gates started in his garage. Apple started as small. The Internet companies needed little capital. Socialism excludes every one. Worse, it nationalizes the efforts of people who built businesses.
    The exceptions that prove the rule. It's been shown repeatedly, documented in this forum, that there is more economic opportunity for those in mixed economies, where people actually care for each other instead of just looking at them as obstacles.

    If you think socialism "excludes every one", then why is the US so far behind so many countries with lots of socialism, and not just in medical care?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Of course it does. If we need less labor, stop the immigration.
    Who said we need less labor?

    And if we do, if immigration has been stopped and we still need less labor, will you advocate throwing people out?

    The problem with your position is that, like Ayn Rand, it regards people as objects unless they're part of the wealthy elite.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No, much of the harm to Americans is from the liberals, using the immigrants.. Boo hoo we have more poor people. We need to confiscate from Americans to give food, and health care and jobs and education to aii those poor people.
    Well, that's at least a more compassionate system than the one to which you subscribe.

    And I don't mean to the immigrants -- I mean to the residents.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No, Republicans continually fight to limit immigration, while democrats block all attempts. The biggest item on the democrat agenda now is amnesty, employment legality, and early voting rights for the 11 million or so illegals.
    By simple supply and demand, if we stop immigration, employers will have to compete for employees and wages will rise. Economics 101.
    The actual bill with Democratic support at the moment is very harsh, not the straw man you portray.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  42. #142

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Republicans do that for their idiot voting base while relaxing all enforcement of social security checks for payroll. I work in an accounting office. All of our small restaurant clients who had illegal workers in the kitchen had to start supplying real SS #'s after Bush was out of office. It slid for that entire time with repeated bounces. No penalties.
    This is what doctors call anecdotal evidence and cannot prove all you want it to prove.
    But we have probably passed the point of no return on immigration. That is, recent immigrants want more of their ethnic groups to come, and there are so many of them that most politicians are unwilling to oppose immigration for fear of losing the immigrant vote. Worse, we may have reached the point at which the recent immigrants have the swing vote in many elections. We do or will have foreigners controlling our elections for their benefit.

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    This is what doctors call anecdotal evidence and cannot prove all you want it to prove.
    But we have probably passed the point of no return on immigration. That is, recent immigrants want more of their ethnic groups to come, and there are so many of them that most politicians are unwilling to oppose immigration for fear of losing the immigrant vote. Worse, we may have reached the point at which the recent immigrants have the swing vote in many elections. We do or will have foreigners controlling our elections for their benefit.
    You have never offered evidence of anything whatsoever other than the thinnest trappings of claiming Reaganomics will elevate the quality of life of all Americans if we stop immigration. And there is no track record of supply side economics being anything other than rich myth.

  44. #144

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    You have never offered evidence of anything whatsoever other than the thinnest trappings of claiming Reaganomics will elevate the quality of life of all Americans if we stop immigration. And there is no track record of supply side economics being anything other than rich myth.
    I have never mentioned Reaganomics or supply side economics. I have advocated free enterprise and capitalism, which have lifted much of humanity from poverty and one room hovels.

  45. #145

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The exceptions that prove the rule. It's been shown repeatedly, documented in this forum, that there is more economic opportunity for those in mixed economies, where people actually care for each other instead of just looking at them as obstacles.

    If you think socialism "excludes every one", then why is the US so far behind so many countries with lots of socialism, and not just in medical care?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Who said we need less labor?

    And if we do, if immigration has been stopped and we still need less labor, will you advocate throwing people out?

    The problem with your position is that, like Ayn Rand, it regards people as objects unless they're part of the wealthy elite.
    You correctly pointed out that we are moving to an economy which will need little labor. Even now many jobs have been replaced but machines and computers and we have 7 % unemployment. Yes you are correct, we need less labor.
    We still have the highest median annual family income of any major country. Mixed is not better.
    Last edited by Benvolio; January 1st, 2014 at 01:23 AM.

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I have never mentioned Reaganomics or supply side economics. I have advocated free enterprise and capitalism, which have lifted much of humanity from poverty and one room hovels.
    Whatever you have or haven't "mentioned", fact is you truly have never supported your bullshit with any sort of evidence. Sad, for someone so shrill...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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