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    So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    My two sons in typical young man procrastination waited to the last minute to apply. They both spent all day on the Colorado Health care site. When they tried to fill out the part to determine if they qualified for assistance, it kicked them out saying they were already on a plan (they could both get on my Tricare if they bothered to apply again but they currently are not. The oldest will no longer be eligible in 3 days). The oldest skipped that and when to apply for a plan without assistance. He found all the language on copays, coinsurance, and deductibles completely confusing and there was no real explanation of it on the site. I did some research on the web and we think we understand it but we aren't sure. Anyway, he found the cheapest plan that would meet his needs, $200 a month, $5000 deductible. He still isn't sure when he has to pay to the deductible or not. Added it to the cart and went to finalize it and the site dumped everything and lost all his information. He given up for the night.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    I used the Maryland's website on December 18, and went through the whole affair without a hitch and was able to submit my application, which is still pending. Apparently I missed out on some very nasty bugs, but I don't know why it's still pending.

  3. #3

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Granting extensions and exemptions to the individual mandate while forcing the insurance companies to cover pre-existing illnesses will bankrupt the insurance companies. Was this the Democrat plan all along? As a step to forcing socialized medicine up an unwilling public.

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    I don't know why it's still pending.
    The phone help center can fix that for you, but you might wait a very long time on hold.

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Granting extensions and exemptions to the individual mandate while forcing the insurance companies to cover pre-existing illnesses will bankrupt the insurance companies. Was this the Democrat plan all along? As a step to forcing socialized medicine up an unwilling public.
    Completely off topic.

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    O Hushed October Morning Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Granting extensions and exemptions to the individual mandate while forcing the insurance companies to cover pre-existing illnesses will bankrupt the insurance companies. Was this the Democrat plan all along? As a step to forcing socialized medicine up an unwilling public.
    It shows that corporate healthcare cannot equitably or adequately serve a country. You are funneling your earnings and sacrificing your coverage so that millionaires can get even richer.

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    The phone help center can fix that for you, but you might wait a very long time on hold.
    It's a bit of an irony being eligible for Medicaid and I might just do that. I am now an independent contractor, but my employer is going to pay my insurance one way or another through federal taxes.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 24th, 2013 at 11:15 AM.

  8. #8

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    It shows that corporate healthcare cannot equitably or adequately serve a country. You are funneling your earnings and sacrificing your coverage so that millionaires can get even richer.
    You do not understand. Charity for those with existing illnesses must come from somewhere. Without income, the companies must go broke.

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    It shows that corporate healthcare cannot equitably or adequately serve a country. You are funneling your earnings and sacrificing your coverage so that millionaires can get even richer.
    Pay for health care CEOs exceeds all other industries (The Advisory Board Company; June 06, 2013)

    The Healthcare industry had the highest median CEO total compensation in 2012, with a value of $11.1 million. [Link]

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Without income, the companies must go broke.
    Adios.....

  11. #11

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Adios.....
    That's the plan. Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky and those other Democrats must be cheering in their graves.

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    That's the plan. Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky and those other Democrats must be cheering in their graves.
    Every developed country has it Ben, that "Marx" routine is getting old.

    If you want to write checks to millionaires so badly, which should be going to your health, do it on your own dime please.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 24th, 2013 at 03:29 PM.

  13. #13

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Every developed country has it Ben, that "Marx" routine is getting old.

    If you want to write checks to millionaires so badly, which should be going to your health, do it on your own dime please.
    If you want more Heath care, do it on your dime. The issue is whether one half the country must pay for their own health care plus those of the other half plus the crossing the border.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post

    If you want more Heath care, do it on your dime.
    If you want fire department, do it on your dime.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    If you want more Heath care, do it on your dime. The issue is whether one half the country must pay for their own health care plus those of the other half plus the crossing the border.
    Reality check: Emergency services are not allowed to ignore emergencies, which are more expensive than PCP visits, and those are on your dime. Oregon is leading in this area having dramatically cut health costs by connecting emergency goers to pcps.

    Don't you ever think for yourself?

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    My youngest son (who is unemployed) got a letter today from the Colorado Medicaid service thanking him for applying and saying that he is not eligible for benefits. They also said he might be eligible after January 1st 2014 and that they will review his case by December 15th (I note that the letter is dated December 20th) and get back to him. In the meantime they refer him to the Colorado Indigent Care Program. Interesting enough when he was on the web site it didn't say anything about an application to medicaid, that he was already on a program (which he isn't) and didn't qualify for assistance.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    My youngest son (who is unemployed) got a letter today from the Colorado Medicaid service thanking him for applying and saying that he is not eligible for benefits.
    You should probably encourage him call the help center. The Colorado website indicates that the enrollment deadline (for January 1 coverage) has been extended until December 27. (Connect for Health Colorado; updates)

  18. #18
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Actually I'm a little confused on the whole penalties thing under the ACA, are you going to have to pay the tax penalty for not having insurance on January 2014, after the open season ends in March 2014 or Dec 2014? The news coverage is very confusing on this.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Actually I'm a little confused on the whole penalties thing under the ACA, are you going to have to pay the tax penalty for not having insurance on January 2014, after the open season ends in March 2014 or Dec 2014? The news coverage is very confusing on this.
    March 31 is the deadline for actual health coverage, or else the fine is $95 or 1% of your income, whichever is higher. For most of the full time employed, the penalty is pretty steep.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 25th, 2013 at 09:47 AM.

  20. #20

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    March 31 is the deadline for actual health coverage, or else the fine is $95 or 1% of your income, whichever is higher. For most of the full time employed, the penalty is pretty steep.
    That will probably be extended to avoid angering voters in an election year.

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    That will probably be extended to avoid angering voters in an election year.
    It will probably be extended regardless. Just going off precedence.

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Does anyone know if they verify income? I pulled a number out of my ass estimating my income and got a letter in the mail telling me what my subsidy would be. They have my SS number so I'm thinking they ran an income check.
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by bendted View Post
    Does anyone know if they verify income? I pulled a number out of my ass estimating my income and got a letter in the mail telling me what my subsidy would be. They have my SS number so I'm thinking they ran an income check.
    Yes, the system is aware of your prior tax filings; however, if the “number out of your ass” seems reasonable when compared to the most recent tax return you filed, it is unlikely to raise a red flag.

    You can update your estimated income in the system at any point during 2014 and thereby also adjust the corresponding subsidy to which you are entitled. In any event, the subsidy will be based on your actual income for the year. You will receive a refund for any overpayment or an amount due for underpayment when you file your 2014 tax return.

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    I see. I guess the number "pulled from my ass" was realistic. I did not know about the refund or amount due stipulation. Surprisingly, no complaints from the 'baggers about this provision.
    If you could just put a light bulb over every gay personís head, people would see just how well-lit their streets and cities are.
    -Alexey Odintsov

  25. #25

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    I would use the site and I would not suggest using the site because of the security issues.

    The Administration will not even respond truthfully with concerns about how the site can be hacked.

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Well Jack Springer, you have no choice but to use the site sooner or later, so we all have to suck it up, fixed or flawed.
    If you could just put a light bulb over every gay personís head, people would see just how well-lit their streets and cities are.
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You do not understand. Charity for those with existing illnesses must come from somewhere. Without income, the companies must go broke.
    They could knock their profits down to 4%.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    If you want more Heath care, do it on your dime. The issue is whether one half the country must pay for their own health care plus those of the other half plus the crossing the border.
    This nonsense has been dealt with before, and the data presented. The issue is that everyone is already paying for the health care of those who can't afford it. When I get a bill for $400 from the hospital, barely half of that is to pay for what was done for/to me; the rest is to cover all the people who come in with no insurance and who can't pay.

    The only question is what system we'll use to spread that cost around. Obamacare, even though it takes millions of people prisoner to profit the corporations, is at least trying to do it in a way that is far more orderly.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    To answer the question, no, but I got a letter from the State of Oregon telling me I may qualify for the Oregon Health plan.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  30. #30

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    This nonsense has been dealt with before, and the data presented. The issue is that everyone is already paying for the health care of those who can't afford it. When I get a bill for $400 from the hospital, barely half of that is to pay for what was done for/to me; the rest is to cover all the people who come in with no insurance and who can't pay.

    The only question is what system we'll use to spread that cost around. Obamacare, even though it takes millions of people prisoner to profit the corporations, is at least trying to do it in a way that is far more orderly.
    You implicitly concur that the "nonsense" is true, while a arguing that it is not a significant change. You implicitly argue that the uninsured are currently recieving all the care that they will get with Obamacare. Few would agree. And, you overlook that with free health care available for millions, they will seek care for minor problem for which they do not now seek service.
    Whether the dred corporations will make a profit remains to be seen. As things stand now they are stuck with the obligation to donate care to those with preexisting illnesses without the promised compensation from the individual mandate. Bankruptcy seems more likely than even distant profits.

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You implicitly concur that the "nonsense" is true, while a arguing that it is not a significant change. You implicitly argue that the uninsured are currently recieving all the care that they will get with Obamacare. Few would agree. And, you overlook that with free health care available for millions, they will seek care for minor problem for which they do not now seek service.
    Whether the dred corporations will make a profit remains to be seen. As things stand now they are stuck with the obligation to donate care to those with preexisting illnesses without the promised compensation from the individual mandate. Bankruptcy seems more likely than even distant profits.
    Please stick to the law under discussion. Also, please find some common sense and apply it: no one will be going to the doctor without paying.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    I got insurance a couple days ago. Damn happy too. It only took me 45 min from start to confirmation. Guess I dodged a bullet.

    With a pre-existing condition (Diabetes) my insurance cost went down, significantly. I had a $7,500 deductible and a monthly cost of $520, now my deductible is $2,500 and $310 a month. Kept my Doctor, clinic, pharmacy,...everything...WooHoo!!!

    I'm not getting any kind of subsidies but Minnesota is supposed to be the least expensive state.

  33. #33

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Please stick to the law under discussion. Also, please find some common sense and apply it: no one will be going to the doctor without paying.
    Many will get free policies, especially those with serious existing policies and much of the welafare class. And, others, having paid, will regard individual vists as essentially free since no extra payment will result. The point, which you miss, is that the obamacare will increase the number of visits and treatments, and the total amount of medical expense.

  34. #34

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    I got insurance a couple days ago. Damn happy too. It only took me 45 min from start to confirmation. Guess I dodged a bullet.

    With a pre-existing condition (Diabetes) my insurance cost went down, significantly. I had a $7,500 deductible and a monthly cost of $520, now my deductible is $2,500 and $310 a month. Kept my Doctor, clinic, pharmacy,...everything...WooHoo!!!

    I'm not getting any kind of subsidies but Minnesota is supposed to be the least expensive state.
    The lower cost results from the higher premiums which supposedly will be paid by health people, which, of course is a subsidy. At this time, the insurance companies are subsidizing the preexisting insurance, since the individual mandate is behind extended.

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The issue is that everyone is already paying for the health care of those who can't afford it. When I get a bill for $400 from the hospital, barely half of that is to pay for what was done for/to me; the rest is to cover all the people who come in with no insurance and who can't pay.

    The only question is what system we'll use to spread that cost around. Obamacare, even though it takes millions of people prisoner to profit the corporations, is at least trying to do it in a way that is far more orderly.
    Georgia’s largest hospital is located in downtown Atlanta and is taxpayer-subsidized. Thirty percent of it’s patients have Medicaid, 30 percent have Medicare, 10 percent have commercial insurance, and 30 percent have nothing at all.

    As a not-for-profit provider, the hospital receives millions of dollars a year in federal, state, and local tax breaks. Residents pay higher taxes in order to provide charitable health services to the low income, uninsured, and indigent. That represents an overall benefit to the community at large.

    One component of funding that the hospital has historically relied upon to supplement the cost of care provided to patients who are unable to pay is the federal Indigent Care Trust Fund. As a result of our governor’s refusal to expand Medicaid, the hospital faces a serious shortfall in it’s operating capital, because ICTF funds will now be destined for states that have already opted in to Medicare expansion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    … obamacare will increase the number of visits and treatments, and the total amount of medical expense.
    More visits is a good thing.

    If poor patients had better access to primary and preventative care, the overall cost of their healthcare could be significantly reduced. Early detection and intervention is much less expensive than treating advanced forms of disease, including diabetes, hypertension, heart failure, and various cancers.

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Many will get free policies, especially those with serious existing policies and much of the welafare class. And, others, having paid, will regard individual vists as essentially free since no extra payment will result. The point, which you miss, is that the obamacare will increase the number of visits and treatments, and the total amount of medical expense.
    Free policies, yes -- but after that you're talking about something other than the ACA. There are no free policies that have neither deductible nor co-pays.

    In other words, most people getting free policies won't be able to use them, so very little will change.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    More visits is a good thing.
    That will be true if it results in actions to increase the number of doctors.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    obamacare will increase the number of visits and treatments, and the total amount of medical expense.
    FIXED this for you: "Obamacare will increase the number of preventative and early-stage visits and treatments, and the total amount of medical expense will likely decrease, as fewer illnesses will develop into catastrophic situations, and the life expectancy in the U. S. will likely increase.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - We need a 28th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution which resembles this...NOW!

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  39. #39

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    FIXED this for you: "Obamacare will increase the number of preventative and early-stage visits and treatments, and the total amount of medical expense will likely decrease, as fewer illnesses will develop into catastrophic situations, and the life expectancy in the U. S. will likely increase.
    Alas, the history of welfare and give away schemes suggests the contrary. Market forces work whether liberals want them or not. When you offer stuff for free you will be swamped with demands. Giving food stamps results in an explosion of dependency and ever increasing obesity. The people who deserve help must compete with everyone else wanting something for nothing. In the wealthiest county the food bank made the mistake of offering Thanksgiving dinner and were swamped.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...112104440.html
    Many people who do not have to pay for a visit will show up for every cold, cough and hang-nail, degrading the care for the deserving. Why do you suppose countries with socialized medicine have long waiting lines and waiting periods?

  40. #40

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    Georgia’s largest hospital is located in downtown Atlanta and is taxpayer-subsidized. Thirty percent of it’s patients have Medicaid, 30 percent have Medicare, 10 percent have commercial insurance, and 30 percent have nothing at all.

    As a not-for-profit provider, the hospital receives millions of dollars a year in federal, state, and local tax breaks. Residents pay higher taxes in order to provide charitable health services to the low income, uninsured, and indigent. That represents an overall benefit to the community at large.

    One component of funding that the hospital has historically relied upon to supplement the cost of care provided to patients who are unable to pay is the federal Indigent Care Trust Fund. As a result of our governor’s refusal to expand Medicaid, the hospital faces a serious shortfall in it’s operating capital, because ICTF funds will now be destined for states that have already opted in to Medicare expansion.



    More visits is a good thing.

    If poor patients had better access to primary and preventative care, the overall cost of their healthcare could be significantly reduced. Early detection and intervention is much less expensive than treating advanced forms of disease, including diabetes, hypertension, heart failure, and various cancers.
    If what you're saying is true -- wouldn't medicaid patients be the most healthy in the US today?

  41. #41
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    If what you're saying is true -- wouldn't medicaid patients be the most healthy in the US today?
    I'm not sure I understand your question, but I imagine persons with Medicaid may tend to be more healthy than persons with nothing at all.

  42. #42
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Wow what a bunch of idiocy. Star dreamer asked about the sight and the same banner waivers show up to ...um waive their banners.

    I was able to select the plans I desired for my Mother. The biggest obstacle I had was in selecting to PAY for the plan it would result in an endless loop of stupid. So I clicked on the "Chat Help" selection and an agent responded in seconds to tell me that 'loop' is because the payment section takes the applicant to the insurers website for payment. If that doesnt work the applicant must contact the insurers directly to make payment arrangements. I know it is the banner child of the republican party to blame Obama BUT it seems to me that if the insurance companies don't have adequate support sites for the exchange after three years then perhaps they should go out of business. lol. A quick call to Humana (medical) and BlueCross/BlueShield resolved the payment issue. They also apologized that their website did not respond properly. Weird huh?

    In an age of the internet a young person unable to figure out what a premium or a deductible is should have their Google privileges revoked for a time since they apparently don't know how to use it right. :P

    But in fairness if you have never owned a car then the whole concept might be confusing. The premium is paid monthly to be a part of said insurance plan, the deductible is the maximum amount you have to pay in one year if you need work above what is covered. What is covered is listed on the insurers website and is summarized on the heath exchange site. Co-pays are amounts paid at the time of service, usually in the 20 to 30 dollar range. They sometimes apply to the total deductible and sometimes they do not.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  43. #43

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Wow what a bunch of idiocy. Star dreamer asked about the sight and the same banner waivers show up to ...um waive their banners.

    I was able to select the plans I desired for my Mother. The biggest obstacle I had was in selecting to PAY for the plan it would result in an endless loop of stupid. So I clicked on the "Chat Help" selection and an agent responded in seconds to tell me that 'loop' is because the payment section takes the applicant to the insurers website for payment. If that doesnt work the applicant must contact the insurers directly to make payment arrangements. I know it is the banner child of the republican party to blame Obama BUT it seems to me that if the insurance companies don't have adequate support sites for the exchange after three years then perhaps they should go out of business. lol. A quick call to Humana (medical) and BlueCross/BlueShield resolved the payment issue. They also apologized that their website did not respond properly. Weird huh?

    In an age of the internet a young person unable to figure out what a premium or a deductible is should have their Google privileges revoked for a time since they apparently don't know how to use it right. :P

    But in fairness if you have never owned a car then the whole concept might be confusing. The premium is paid monthly to be a part of said insurance plan, the deductible is the maximum amount you have to pay in one year if you need work above what is covered. What is covered is listed on the insurers website and is summarized on the heath exchange site. Co-pays are amounts paid at the time of service, usually in the 20 to 30 dollar range. They sometimes apply to the total deductible and sometimes they do not.
    Was your Mother buying a Medicare Supplemental policy?

  44. #44
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Alas, the history of welfare and give away schemes suggests the contrary. Market forces work whether liberals want them or not. When you offer stuff for free you will be swamped with demands. Giving food stamps results in an explosion of dependency and ever increasing obesity. The people who deserve help must compete with everyone else wanting something for nothing. In the wealthiest county the food bank made the mistake of offering Thanksgiving dinner and were swamped.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...112104440.html
    Many people who do not have to pay for a visit will show up for every cold, cough and hang-nail, degrading the care for the deserving. Why do you suppose countries with socialized medicine have long waiting lines and waiting periods?
    Would you please talk about the law under discussion and not some straw man you've been trained to attack?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  45. #45
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    ... the deductible is the maximum amount you have to pay in one year if you need work above what is covered.
    The deductible is better described as what you have to pay for what is covered before they start paying. That's why insurance is a form of gambling: you're betting you'll have more medical bills than the sum of your deductible, co-pay, and premiums; the company is betting you won't.


    In the Obamacare situation, they're also betting that most of their new customers won't be able to afford to use the insurance in the first place.
    Last edited by Kulindahr; December 28th, 2013 at 06:57 PM.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  46. #46

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Would you please talk about the law under discussion and not some straw man you've been trained to attack?
    It is that old supply and demand law that you liberals hate so much. The lower the price , the more the demand, and people will stand in line for most anything free or low cost, whether it be food, or medical attention.

  47. #47
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    It is that old supply and demand law that you liberals hate so much. The lower the price , the more the demand, and people will stand in line for most anything free or low cost, whether it be food, or medical attention.
    I don't think that is a problem with this system. The high deductibles are going to keep a lot of the new users from even using their coverage. It will encourage market thinking towards the use of the benefits, this is really a very 'conservative' health care approach. I'm not sure why the knee jerk socialism reaction. there is nothing really socialist about this system at all.
    Last edited by Stardreamer; December 29th, 2013 at 09:00 AM.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The deductible is better described as what you have to pay for what is covered before they start paying. That's why insurance is a form of gambling: you're betting you'll have more medical bills than the sum of your deductible, co-pay, and premiums; the company is betting you won't.


    In the Obamacare situation, they're also betting that most of their new customers won't be able to afford to use the insurance in the first place.
    What we were finding when we looked is under co-pay the statements were confusing, we really couldn't figure out if you had to pay full price to go to the doctor or not with many of the plans.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  49. #49

    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    I don't think that is a problem with this system. The high deductibles are going to keep a lot of the new users from even using their coverage. It will encourage market thinking towards the use of the benefits, this is really a very 'conservative' health care approach. I'm not sure why the knee jerk socialism reaction. there is nothing really socialist about this system at all.
    The socialism is in the government mandate of the purchase, the mandate of policy provisions, control of prices and fees, taxation of fees and profits and, most clearly, the governmental subsidies for anyone deemed by the government to be unable pay. The subsidies will predictably provide the vehicle for the government, by lowering the threshold and raising the percentage of subsidies, to convert it to a single payor system for a high and growing percentage of the population at the expense of the increasingly small remainder.

  50. #50
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: So has anyone used the new Health care sites?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    The high deductibles are going to keep a lot of the new users from even using their coverage. It will encourage market thinking towards the use of the benefits, this is really a very 'conservative' health care approach. I'm not sure why the knee jerk socialism reaction. there is nothing really socialist about this system at all.
    Yes, exactly.

    Obamacare was designed by the Heritage Foundation, implemented in Massachusetts as Romneycare, and was the Republican health care proposal until President Obama decided to support it. It is as "conservative" a health care plan as it would be possible to come up with. It is even more conservative than our current status quo of health care in the USA, which is heavily (but remarkably inefficiently) socialized. Obamacare removes some of the socialized features of the status quo, to make it even more market-based.

    There is nothing wrong with Obamacare being a Republican plan. There is a lot wrong with its lack of socialization and its reliance on market forces. Caring for the sick is a social function, not a market function. Markets do not and cannot make appropriate medical decisions regarding care. Coronary artery bypass surgery is not necessarily a better treatment for your heart disease than aspirin, just because it is tens of thousands of times more expensive. And aspirin is not necessarily a more cost effective treatment than CABG, just because it is so cheap. The practice of medicine is not analogous to buying a refrigerator.

    We have decided as a society to care for our sick, because we have decided that that is an honorable and noble thing for humans to do. That means that we are committed to allocating some of our community resources to health care. We do not refuse to treat you if your illness is not a cost effective one; and we do not treat you better if you happen to be rich. Health care is not a market function.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    In the Obamacare situation, they're also betting that most of their new customers won't be able to afford to use the insurance in the first place.
    Yes, exactly.

    Obamacare is requiring many people to purchase health insurance which they cannot afford to use!

    Excuse me, but that is NOT a plan for improving the quality of or access to health care in America. It borders on fraud, in fact.



    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    It is that old supply and demand law that you liberals hate so much. The lower the price , the more the demand, and people will stand in line for most anything free or low cost, whether it be food, or medical attention.
    And why are you so enamored with "supply and demand" as such a perfect model for the apportionment of community health care resources?

    Do you believe we should not treat the expensive diseases? Should we stop treating AIDS in the USA because it consumes such a disproportionate share of our health care dollars? Should we just let it spread rampantly through the population because markets cannot address the complexities of epidemiology?

    Do you not understand how disastrous is the market as an administer of health care resources?



    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Many people who do not have to pay for a visit will show up for every cold, cough and hang-nail, degrading the care for the deserving. Why do you suppose countries with socialized medicine have long waiting lines and waiting periods?
    This feature of socialized medical systems - that people are inclined to see a doctor for minor concerns - is one of the things that makes the socialized systems so cost effective. Patients come in frequently, their problems get addressed at an early stage, and the consequences of advanced disease (which are staggeringly expensive to treat) are less of a problem there.

    Health care outcomes, life expectancy, wait times, and cost effectiveness of therapies all appear to be substantially better under Canada's socialized system than under the USA's socialized system.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari..._United_States

    Benvolio, again and again in these fora you argue for the preservation and continuation of the most demonstrably inefficient health care system on earth. And you do so in the name of efficiency! For you, "efficiency" is extremely high cost, poor outcomes, long wait times, low life expectancy, and consumption of more of the nation's GDP than any other country on earth. You seem to believe that sicker Americans spending an outrageous fortune on health care are somehow better for the country, if a black man desires the opposite. You have an ability to ignore facts and reality that are truly astounding.

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