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  1. #1
    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Megyn Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Fox News host Megyn Kelly says Jesus and Santa are white

    Responding to an editorial in Slate magazine that Santa was not white, Fox host Megan Kelly claimed otherwise.

    Is she right? Technically yes, but that isn't the point. She didn't mean it in a technical sense and we all know it.

    Jesus and St. Nicholas were both very much Middle Eastern. There is no doubt that Jesus originating in Palestine was ethnically Palestinian and in a broad sense Arab. St. Nicholas hailed from the southern coast of Turkey, and might have been ethnically Greek. In her defense it could be argued that it was the Germans who transformed St. Nick into the overweight Germanic man we see in Western culture. In any event, the technical and very broad sense says all definitions are considered white and are really just subdivisions of the broader white race.

    Kelly's mistake is being so blunt about it. When the word "white" is brought up in the sense of race, most people do not pop images of Turkish or Palestinian men in their heads. Biased Western art universally depicts Jesus with brown to auburn hair and Celtic white skin. The fact is, neither Jesus nor St. Nick was the Northern European portrayed and imagined in Western culture. In contrast, Jesus is not portrayed as Caucasian in Ethiopian and Middle Eastern religious art, but the Palestinian/Arab he actually was. There is almost a racist aversion in Western culture to admitting Jesus was a Palestinian Jew, perhaps because it is harder to connect people with religious figures outside of their own race.

    This extra explanation was required by Kelly to avoid misinterpretation and reinforcement of incorrect portrayals, but was not given.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 12th, 2013 at 11:16 PM.

  2. #2
    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    If you want to talk about skin color, Jesus was more "olive" like many Middle Easterners.

    Not related but St. Peter was actually "ebon" and not "white".
    Last edited by maxpowr9; December 12th, 2013 at 11:32 PM.

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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Images of Jesus have long shown Him as of the ethnicity of the artist/audience, but there was nevertheless a strong minority tradition which portrayed Him with olive-brown skin and definite Jewish/Palestine features, suggesting that Christians for a good number of centuries knew and held to His actual features as closely as they knew how.

    As for Santa... he's a creature of capitalism; portray him however will make a profit.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  4. #4
    CupidBoy
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Jesus is black.


  5. #5
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    ^ Ha.


    I saw a kool hologram "pic" of Jesus someone did back when I was still living near campus after graduation from college: as you moved around it and looked at the face, the skin tone shifted. How the artist/tech did that I have no idea, but it was both impressive and thought-provoking.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    ^ Ha.
    That was actually the exact comment I left Cupid... What's that saying about great minds

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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    That was actually the exact comment I left Cupid... What's that saying about great minds
    Or minds that should be in bed.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  8. #8
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    He did indeed.

    Well white or black, I know Santa is real anyway.

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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Okay, time for the three of us to go to bed.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    In bed the three of us?

  11. #11

    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    If you want to talk about skin color, Jesus was more "olive" like many Middle Easterners.

    Not related but St. Peter was actually "ebon" and not "white".
    Jesus and Peter were Jewish and therefore Semitic Caucasians, but not Arab, which is largely a culture. Palestinian is also problematic. The word itself comes from the Philistines, who were Indo-European Caucasions, related to the Greeks, and were not Semitic. By the time of Mohammed, the area of Palestine and Israel was occupied by Christians and Jews. Muslim armies conquered the area by military force and required conversion. The people today called Palestinian are a mixture, but their ancestors were forced to become Muslim.
    What is "ebon" intended to mean? If the suggestion is that he was black, that of course, is incorrect.

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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Who cares what some fairy tale character looked like. How about worrying about Bugs Bunny lol.

  13. #13

    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Is Kelly crazier now that she's taken over dumped Hannity's time slot?

    The right wingers need their Jesus to look like Brad Pitt for superiority purposes.

    Fox gets mouthier every day.

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    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Jesus and Peter were Jewish and therefore Semitic Caucasians, but not Arab, which is largely a culture. Palestinian is also problematic. The word itself comes from the Philistines, who were Indo-European Caucasions, related to the Greeks, and were not Semitic. By the time of Mohammed, the area of Palestine and Israel was occupied by Christians and Jews. Muslim armies conquered the area by military force and required conversion. The people today called Palestinian are a mixture, but their ancestors were forced to become Muslim.
    What is "ebon" intended to mean? If the suggestion is that he was black, that of course, is incorrect.
    Palestine has been used in reference to the Levant since the time of Herodotus, and when Judea merged with Syria, the Romans then called the whole province Syria-Palaestina. The demonym as we understand it today would be Palestinian, but in his own time Jesus would have been Judean, and the inhabitants thereof were racially a mix of the ancient Canaanites, Israelites, Parthians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, and probably Romans already by the 1st Century. You are correct about the Arabs, whom did not begin a presence in the Levant until Yemenite migrations of the 2nd Century.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 13th, 2013 at 06:22 AM.

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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    One thing is for certain: the souls of Fox personnel (I would never call them Journalists) are lily-white.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  16. #16

    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by lambdaboy View Post
    Who cares what some fairy tale character looked like. How about worrying about Bugs Bunny lol.
    Can you think of a person in all of history who has had more influence? I am not religious, but I have no doubt that a historical Jesus (Greek version of Joshua) lived and was crucified. The rest is debatable.

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    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Read Zealot.

    You'll love the Jesus in that fascinating study.

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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Can you think of a person in all of history who has had more influence? I am not religious, but I have no doubt that a historical Jesus (Greek version of Joshua) lived and was crucified. The rest is debatable.
    I hate agreeing with you, but yes... the fact that a guy named Jesus bummed around Israel in the early 0's and was crucified by Pontius Pilate is something that's agreed upon by just about every single historian. there are numerous outside, non-Christian sources confirming those basic facts.

    presumably, though, he was some shade of brown or olive; Caucasian, but not necessarily "white."

    as for Santa, I'll take penguin Santas any day of the week.


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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    .
    According to Megan Kelly the real Jesus:


    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    .
    You're all wrong:



    Santa Clause is Japanese. Where do you think all that cool Sony stuff is from?

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    well as Stephen Colbert said--santa can't be black because a black santa sliding down a chimney in florida would be shot and killed long ago using the stand your ground law as a defense---"he was trying to steal my milk and cookies!!".

  22. #22

    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Read Zealot.

    You'll love the Jesus in that fascinating study.
    I have my own theory which I will explain sometime.

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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I have my own theory which I will explain sometime.
    We are all waiting with baited breath!

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  24. #24
    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    We are all waiting with baited breath!
    Actually I couldn't give a shit.

    I'm just recommending that Benvolio read this book. The historical Jesus is a real badass. No wonder Pope Frank wants to return the christian church to the basic tenets of the faith.

    As for what the Benvolios of the world think or believe....it is all as far away from the true meaning of Christian faith and state of grace as you can get.

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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Can you think of a person in all of history who has had more influence?
    Rush Limbaugh

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  26. #26
    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    If you want to talk about skin color, Jesus was more "olive" like many Middle Easterners.

    Not related but St. Peter was actually "ebon" and not "white".
    But... haven't you ever heard the Doobie Brothers song, "Jesus is just all-white with me"?

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    I'm just recommending that Benvolio read this a book
    There...fixed it.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  28. #28

    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    There...fixed it.
    I have read numerous books about the Historical Jesus, including Albert Sweitzers "The Quest For The Historical Jesus".

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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I have read numerous books about the Historical Jesus, including Albert Sweitzers Schweitzer "The Quest For The Historical Jesus".
    I'm dubious. You would have spelled the good doctor's name correctly if you had. Forgot the apostrophe. Consider working on your puntuation.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

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    JUB Addict darden's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    I'm dubious. You would have spelled the good doctor's name correctly if you had. Forgot the apostrophe. Consider working on your puntuation.
    really, though?

    I've read everything he's ever written, but I misspell Stienback all the time.

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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by darden View Post
    really, though?

    I've read everything he's ever written, but I misspell misspel Stienback all the time.
    Much betr!

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  32. #32
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    But... haven't you ever heard the Doobie Brothers song, "Jesus is just all-white with me"?
    I don't know whether to do a ROTFLMAO or just shoot you....



    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    I'm dubious. You would have spelled the good doctor's name correctly if you had. Forgot the apostrophe. Consider working on your puntuation.
    Quote Originally Posted by darden View Post
    really, though?

    I've read everything he's ever written, but I misspell Stienback all the time.
    Yeah. Given the number of different spellings/variants of what seems to us non-German types a single German name, misspelling it isn't that surprising.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  34. #34
    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    I don't know how it is possible to spell Schweitzer without letters that form some sort of shwuh sound...I didn't know that anyone would pronounce his name swytzer. I suppose you would if you didn't like that foreign sounding pronunciation.

    Anyhow, his work is also interesting but Reza Aslan has found a Jesus that is even more interesting.

    And he has kindly weighed in about Megan's remarks.
    “He would look the way that the average Palestinian would look today, so that would mean dark features, hairy, probably a longer nose, black hair. To put it in the simplest way possible, he would’ve looked like me,” said Aslan, an Iranian-American Muslim.

    But he told the Washington Post’s Max Fisher in an interview published Thursday that the historic Jesus had become a separate entity from the religious Christ.

    “What I just described is Jesus. What Megan Kelly described is the Christ — and they’re different people,” Aslan said. “In other words, the Christ can be whatever you want him to be.”
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/1...g-about-jesus/

  35. #35
    Are u haleloo ya ? Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    ok lets go back to the basics. Jesus Christ.
    Jesus is the man. What is Christ mean ?


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  36. #36

    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    ok lets go back to the basics. Jesus Christ.
    Jesus is the man. What is Christ mean ?
    Christ is from the Greek for Messiah. It is a title applied later by Christians. It was never part of his name, but Cristians have often used it as though it were a surname.
    Megan's point is that the Jesus the Messiah/ Christ of faith is different in many repeats from the Jesus who appears from historical study.

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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Christ is from the Greek for Messiah. It is a title applied later by Christians. It was never part of his name, but Cristians have often used it as though it were a surname.
    Megan's point is that the Jesus the Messiah/ Christ of faith is different in many repeats from the Jesus who appears from historical study.
    Just some historical trivia....

    We got Christ appearing as a sort of last name because English usage was filtered through Latin, which has no definite article, so it had to be Jesus Christ instead of Jesus the Christ.



    As for the "Jesus of faith" and the "historical Jesus", it's ironic that if He wasn't historical, there'd be no substance to the faith... and which "historical Jesus" you believe in is a matter of faith.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  38. #38

    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Just some historical trivia....

    We got Christ appearing as a sort of last name because English usage was filtered through Latin, which has no definite article, so it had to be Jesus Christ instead of Jesus the Christ.



    As for the "Jesus of faith" and the "historical Jesus", it's ironic that if He wasn't historical, there'd be no substance to the faith... and which "historical Jesus" you believe in is a matter of faith.
    I would not agree that which historical Jesus you accept is a matter of faith. It is the most important and difficult of all historical mysteries. Nevertheless it can be and often is analyzed as a historical question based upon the conflicting available evidence, i.e. a judgment decision.

  39. #39
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Why is Angry Barbie on the news?

    It's truly bizarre watching that lady. Can't decide whether she's aggressively smart and playing dumb for the fox audience or aggressively stupid and acting smart.

    Could be either. Wonder what race she'd say Mother Theresa was?
    And the Easter Bunny?
    Last edited by Kabluey; December 13th, 2013 at 05:20 PM.
    Blah blah blah, something enigmatic sounding...

  40. #40
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Megyn Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    I read the editorial in Slate first, and I thought it was pretty dumb. Santa isn't gay either. Do we need Gay Santa now so gay youth don't feel humiliated because they aren't like Santa? Mrs. Claus is just a tool of heterosexist oppression!
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Megyn Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I read the editorial in Slate first, and I thought it was pretty dumb. Santa isn't gay either. Do we need Gay Santa now so gay youth don't feel humiliated because they aren't like Santa? Mrs. Claus is just a tool of heterosexist oppression!
    No. That isn't the point of the criticism at all. It is a literal "white" washing of history, religion, and culture.

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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I would not agree that which historical Jesus you accept is a matter of faith. It is the most important and difficult of all historical mysteries. Nevertheless it can be and often is analyzed as a historical question based upon the conflicting available evidence, i.e. a judgment decision.
    It's often based on a priori assumptions, which makes it a matter of faith.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Megyn Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    At the end of the day, this whole debate will be a win for atheism/agnosticism.
    Telling it like it is.

  44. #44

    Re: Megyn Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Much ado about nothing.

    Sorry but Kelly is not a member of the KKK.

    She has great legs!

  45. #45
    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Megyn Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post

    She has great legs!
    Seriously?!

    *vomit*

  46. #46
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Megyn Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    No. That isn't the point of the criticism at all. It is a literal "white" washing of history, religion, and culture.
    No; the Slate piece focussed exactly on the point I find so ridiculous. The rationale for having a "Penguin Santa" was that it was humiliating for non-white children. This is dangerous nonsense, and has nothing to do with restoring people omitted from history due to past bigotry. By all means bring forward other historical figures. But the premise that we need to be physically similar to a role model is not even specious, it's obnoxious. What, I'm supposed to wait for the "White Mandela" now? No; Mandela was my leader like Gandhi and Churchill and Solzhenitsyn.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  47. #47
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    It's often based on a priori assumptions, which makes it a matter of faith.
    I think most rational systems of thought are capable of acknowledging a-priori concepts. That in itself is a kind of qualification or caveat to a theory; if it holds true that ...... then it follows that....

    Faith does not discern a priori assumptions, it postulates an a priori reality. It conflates an assumption with a proven fact, and that puts it outside reason.

    Statements of faith take the form "It is so...." not "Assuming the following were true, it would be the case that..." Faith is always bizarrely in the indicative, not the subjunctive.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  48. #48
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Faith is always bizarrely in the indicative, not the subjunctive.
    Just like science texts.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  49. #49
    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    .
    Putatively, Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He can appear any way He wishes. Therefore, He is not required to answer to anyone at Fox nor its delusional minions.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  50. #50
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    Re: Megan Kelly: Santa and Jesus Are White

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    Putatively, Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
    First premise.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    He can appear any way He wishes.
    That does not follow from the premise.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    Therefore, He is not required to answer to anyone at Fox nor its delusional minions.
    But that most certainly does!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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