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  1. #1
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Politifact has posted its nominees for the 2013 Lie of the Year award.

    The 2013 Lie of the Year Finalists: Vote in the Readers' Poll

    My two favorites for the winner, chosen not so much for how big and bold a lie they were but how big an impact on the political scene was, in order are:

    "What we said was, you can keep it if it hasnít changed since the law passed."
    President Barack Obama November 4th. Rated as Pants on Fire.

    This statement doubling down on the oft repeated "If you like your plan you can keep it" statement (rated Half True) and coming on top of the disastrous web site roll out has likely done more damage to the President's reputation than all the Right Wing propaganda and hate over the years could ever have done. All it really did was emphasize the missing, but obvious for those paying attention, asterisk that has been seemingly purposely left out of that original statement all along.

    "President Obama just granted all of Congress an exception" to Obamacare
    Senator Ted Cruz, August 10th. Rated as False.

    The right wing talking point that Congress is exempt from the ACA when in reality they are the only group in the US REQUIRED to use it, is such a flat out lie that you can't really find any real justification to excuse it as ignorance or misstatement. I would have given this a Pants on Fire myself. Yet it has been a major driving point of right wing campaigns against the law for the last two years.

    Both of these lies have been at the forefronts of their respective campaigns about the ACA and have had significant impact on the political landscape which is why I consider them the two leading candidates for the award.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  2. #2
    JUB Addict Sausy's Avatar
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Wasn't Congress though granted a special subsidy? And that the Congress was forbidden from an outright exemption was due to Senator Charles Grassley of Iowa, a Republican's efforts to make certain Congress lived by the law the Democratic majority was so gung ho everyone else did. They indeed are NOT exempted, but they cried to the Obama Administration to give them favorable subsidies. In fact a lot of people who should have been thrilled with the so called Affordable Health Care Act went out and got exemptions, like unions. Cruz and others pushing the exemption line however definitely aren't being honest, and should instead make sure that Congressional coverage isn't more favorable than that of the general public.
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  3. #3
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    The subsidy was the equivalent of what the government was paying for its contribution to the individual's portion of the Federal Employees Health Benefit program that the various congressional staffers were being forced to withdraw from by this law. No matter how you look at it these people (the staffers not necessarily the congressmen) were getting shafted and the personnel department was trying to lesson that pain. It was hardly an exemption that the campaign was trying to paint it as.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  4. #4
    Oranje rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    It is a draw this year.

  5. #5
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    I had to go with Obama's claim that the FISA court is "transparent".


    I don't see the issue about being able to keep your insurance plan so much as a matt3er of lying but of being just plain stupid. Obama should have just leveled and admitted that we all know that insurance companies change the rules on us all the time, and that he should have recognized ahead of time that they'd be pulling plans from people and warned us all. It was a moment to say "My bad!", but he tried to spin it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    The subsidy was the equivalent of what the government was paying for its contribution to the individual's portion of the Federal Employees Health Benefit program that the various congressional staffers were being forced to withdraw from by this law. No matter how you look at it these people (the staffers not necessarily the congressmen) were getting shafted and the personnel department was trying to lesson that pain. It was hardly an exemption that the campaign was trying to paint it as.
    But compared to what would be offered on the exchanges, how does it rate? It is right though to call out Cruz and the others on the right for being at best misleading.
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  7. #7

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    I voted for the blatant, consistent lie that Obama told for years about people being able to keep their insurance.

    They should change the biggest lie award to this one for 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012.

    Lie of the decade.

  8. #8
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I voted for the blatant, consistent lie that Obama told for years about people being able to keep their insurance.

    They should change the biggest lie award to this one for 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012.

    Lie of the decade.
    And just as inconsequential as the "4 dead Americans" "scandal". I envy you the small things you get frustrated about...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  9. #9
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I had to go with Obama's claim that the FISA court is "transparent".


    I don't see the issue about being able to keep your insurance plan so much as a matt3er of lying but of being just plain stupid. Obama should have just leveled and admitted that we all know that insurance companies change the rules on us all the time, and that he should have recognized ahead of time that they'd be pulling plans from people and warned us all. It was a moment to say "My bad!", but he tried to spin it.
    Truth and the unfortunate result is it has significantly undermined the President's credibility with the people. I understand why the White House chose to take that line over the years, they were trying to head off the kitchen table campaign commercials that helped to kill the health care plan under Clinton BUT they should have known by leaving the asterisk out it would come home to roost eventually by killing the President's credibility.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  10. #10
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Truth and the unfortunate result is it has significantly undermined the President's credibility with the people. I understand why the White House chose to take that line over the years, they were trying to head off the kitchen table campaign commercials that helped to kill the health care plan under Clinton BUT they should have known by leaving the asterisk out it would come home to roost eventually by killing the President's credibility.
    You'd think they would have had a better plan to deal with it -- like at least appear to be coming clean.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  11. #11

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    i find it pretty amazing that a few people not being able to keep their incredibly shitty ripoff insurance plans has somehow become more important than everyone who couldnt get health insurance because they were poor or already sick.

  12. #12
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    i find it pretty amazing that a few people not being able to keep their incredibly shitty ripoff insurance plans has somehow become more important than everyone who couldnt get health insurance because they were poor or already sick.
    I find it amazing that anyone could think that being misleading about that situation is more significant than being flat out deceptive about the whole FISA "court" b.s.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  13. #13

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    And just as inconsequential as the "4 dead Americans" "scandal". I envy you the small things you get frustrated about...
    Too bad the healthcare.gov scandal was in the open, otherwise Obama and his sheep would be calling that a fake scandal also.

  14. #14

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    i find it pretty amazing that a few people not being able to keep their incredibly shitty ripoff insurance plans has somehow become more important than everyone who couldnt get health insurance because they were poor or already sick.
    Their 'incredibly shitty rip-off insurance plans" were never mentioned before Obama's big lie was exposed.

    I hope you enjoy that pregnancy exam that you are paying for with Obamacare.

  15. #15

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    i find it pretty amazing that a few people not being able to keep their incredibly shitty ripoff insurance plans has somehow become more important than everyone who couldnt get health insurance because they were poor or already sick.
    I think the problem is that those who lost insurance (about 5 million people) by far outnumber those who got insurance (around 100,000 by last count). You can say that this will all even out in the end, and everybody will love Obamacare and maybe you're right, but right now this law has huge problems that people are legitimately angry about.

  16. #16
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitamin View Post

    I think the problem is that those who lost insurance (about 5 million people) by far outnumber those who got insurance (around 100,000 by last count). You can say that this will all even out in the end, and everybody will love Obamacare and maybe you're right, but right now this law has huge problems that people are legitimately angry about.
    Question is, is the law worse than the previous status quo?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  17. #17

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    do you not understand that people who lost their insurance plans did so because those insurance plans didn't conform to regulations that prevent abuse by the insurers? basically you were paying for garbage

  18. #18

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    do you not understand that people who lost their insurance plans did so because those insurance plans didn't conform to regulations that prevent abuse by the insurers? basically you were paying for garbage
    The people lost those plans because the insurance companies needed to make more money to subsidize losses they will incur because of unnecessary tests, coverage, etc. dedicated by Obamacare.

    We still live in a free country. The government does not always know better.

    Some of the plans covered medical disasters and those people had built up cash reserves to cover what wasn't covered by their insurance. If that's you in your photo ... you look very young ... should the government decide what college you attend and what your major should be? Most young people have no idea what is best for them. Are you comfortable with the government making those decisions for you?

  19. #19
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Most of the world lives in free countries and many of those enjoy a vastly superior healthcare. I wonder why...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  20. #20
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Question is, is the law worse than the previous status quo?
    The question for this thread is, is the "lie" that big a deal? Is it really more important than the fact that our President wants us to believe that the business of our own government agencies spying on us is "transparent"?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #21

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Question is, is the law worse than the previous status quo?
    Well, if the purpose was to get every American health insurance then, yes, right now the law is worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    do you not understand that people who lost their insurance plans did so because those insurance plans didn't conform to regulations that prevent abuse by the insurers? basically you were paying for garbage
    Again, 5 million people lost health insurance that had it before. 100,000 who didn't have it before now have it. The number of insured Americans has gone down by 4,900,000 since the law has been enacted. That's garbage my friend.

    And those plans lost had nothing to do with violating regulations that prevent abuse by insurers. They were all lost to new regulations imposed by Obamacare. Simple as that really.
    Don't do scat, kids. It means you're a Republican.

  22. #22
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    do you not understand that people who lost their insurance plans did so because those insurance plans didn't conform to regulations that prevent abuse by the insurers? basically you were paying for garbage
    It is really a separate issue from the point of the discussion, the president knew that this was going to happen and yet time and time again repeated a statement that lead people to believe that it would not. That statement garnered a 'Half True' from Politifact because of the obvious asterisk that was missing from it, the very thing you point out here. Now the White House's pitiful attempt to backtrack was so bad that Politifact rated it as 'Pants on Fire'. By your very statement above you are not disputing this so back to the subject of the thread do you think that it is the leading candidate for lie of the year?
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  23. #23

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    The people lost those plans because the insurance companies needed to make more money to subsidize losses they will incur because of unnecessary tests, coverage, etc. dedicated by Obamacare.

    We still live in a free country. The government does not always know better.

    Some of the plans covered medical disasters and those people had built up cash reserves to cover what wasn't covered by their insurance. If that's you in your photo ... you look very young ... should the government decide what college you attend and what your major should be? Most young people have no idea what is best for them. Are you comfortable with the government making those decisions for you?
    I'm comfortable with the government shutting down fake colleges that don't teach anything helpful

  24. #24

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    It is really a separate issue from the point of the discussion, the president knew that this was going to happen and yet time and time again repeated a statement that lead people to believe that it would not. That statement garnered a 'Half True' from Politifact because of the obvious asterisk that was missing from it, the very thing you point out here. Now the White House's pitiful attempt to backtrack was so bad that Politifact rated it as 'Pants on Fire'. By your very statement above you are not disputing this so back to the subject of the thread do you think that it is the leading candidate for lie of the year?
    no, its stupid. like you said yourself anyone could see there was an asterisk on that remark, but it was still a mostly true remark.

    pretty much everything republicans have ever said is more of a lie than that.

  25. #25
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post

    I'm comfortable with the government shutting down fake colleges that don't teach anything helpful
    Healthcare is also something I'd much rather trust my government with than private greedy insurance companies.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  26. #26
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    I'm comfortable with the government shutting down fake colleges that don't teach anything helpful
    Except the government doesn't need to -- the private sector handles that through the accreditation system.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  27. #27
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    no, its stupid. like you said yourself anyone could see there was an asterisk on that remark, but it was still a mostly true remark.

    pretty much everything republicans have ever said is more of a lie than that.
    So essentially you agree its a lie, and brush it off with everybody does it. Which is fine, I've said that myself concerning this. So since we all agree its a lie can we get to the point, is it a candidate for lie of the year. I think so because despite it being a half truth, its impact on the political scene is very significant. Quite literally the ACA would likely have NOT passed without this lie and the botched attempt at brushing it off this year only made it worse. According to the latest surveys the MAJORITY of Americans no longer trust President Obama because of this deception.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  28. #28
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    I still don't know why President Obama said that, and doubt he will ever come out with a satisfactory answer. It just didn't make any sense to think that a private for profit insurance company of any type will not frequently change the terms and conditions to bolster its profits and deny or make it harder for the consumer to process a claim. Extremely frequent for any decent (?) health insurance policy, home insurance, auto, life, etc if its legally written in the contract.

    Private or individual written polices are even worse and less regulated in many states.

    The only people who wouldn't have understood this statement stated over and over from the President was bunk would be those with junk polices, or never had any type of private sector insurance in their life. Employers have always turned over their contracts to a cheaper or different insurer every chance they can as cost rise. Even if they retain the same company group policy every yr if not more the insurance company changes terms and binders with whatever they can (repeated) legally do based on the contract. Most people don't read this boring legal mumbo jumbo and less the small print at the time or in future communications.
    Most people don't have a idea what coverage they have until its to late and in a time of crisis only to say oh shit bankruptcy looms.

    Add to that any regulations that would aide the insurance company to drop polices they wanted to in the first place and wham! he gave them a easy out with him taking the fall.
    The President must be confused thinking that the greedy for profit sector was removed from the ACA? If he believed anything they told him they would or would not do before he started making these statement he was foolish to trust them. Very bad advice from whoever worked with the President on this mess.

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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    asterisk
    My vote goes to the senior senator from Georgia, who is also Vice Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.*

    Born November 10, 1943

    Sought and received five student deferments from service in Vietnam

    Bachelor's degree of Business Administration, University of Georgia, 1966

    Juris Doctor, University of Tennessee College of Law, 1968

    Iíd never seen anything like that ad. Putting pictures of Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden next to the picture of a man who left three limbs on the battlefield ó itís worse than disgraceful. Itís reprehensible. Ė John McCain [Link]

  30. #30
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    So essentially you agree its a lie, and brush it off with everybody does it. Which is fine, I've said that myself concerning this. So since we all agree its a lie can we get to the point, is it a candidate for lie of the year. I think so because despite it being a half truth, its impact on the political scene is very significant. Quite literally the ACA would likely have NOT passed without this lie and the botched attempt at brushing it off this year only made it worse. According to the latest surveys the MAJORITY of Americans no longer trust President Obama because of this deception.
    Maybe it was done on purpose, because people were actually paying attention to the FISA lie.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  31. #31
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Maybe it was done on purpose, because people were actually paying attention to the FISA lie.
    I'm certain that is contributing to it. I agree that as a factor of actual dishonesty the FISA is more clearly a lie. I just think its impact is less due to the repeated emphasis and very public exposure of the other.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  32. #32
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    My vote goes to the senior senator from Georgia, who is also Vice Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.*

    Born November 10, 1943

    Sought and received five student deferments from service in Vietnam

    Bachelor's degree of Business Administration, University of Georgia, 1966

    Juris Doctor, University of Tennessee College of Law, 1968
    Unfortunately in order to be a candidate for Lie of the Year, it has to have been uttered or repeated this year.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

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    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Unfortunately in order to be a candidate for Lie of the Year, it has to have been uttered or repeated this year.
    The lie was listed on the page linked in the opening post. I now realize that it is not included in the siteís list of choices for lie of the year, except by write-in (Other).

    Saxby Chambliss on Thursday, June 13th, 2013 in an interview on CNN's "The Situation Room"

  34. #34

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!


  35. #35
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Pretty much as I called it too, it was chosen for the size of its impact.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  36. #36
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Wow it was even bigger than I thought, 59% and none of the other candidates over 9%. That's a home run! I think I have to agree with the one person's comment, "If you like your health plan, you can keep it" is Obama's "Read my lips", "I did not have sex with that woman", "I am not a crook" moment.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  37. #37
    JUB Addict evanrick's Avatar
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Paul Ryan: Budget deal doesnt raise taxes.

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ticket-prices/

    Budget deal raises taxes $730 million.
    http://forum.justusboys.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic30903_2.gif

  38. #38
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    And people like you helped him pull the wool over all those people's eyes, making sure hardly anyone noticed the fact that he isn't doing squat about the government spying on its own people, denying that it's even a problem.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  39. #39

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    And people like you helped him pull the wool over all those people's eyes, making sure hardly anyone noticed the fact that he isn't doing squat about the government spying on its own people, denying that it's even a problem.
    Congratulations! You attained a new level of liberalism -- not accepting responsibility and putting the blame on others.

  40. #40
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Congratulations! You attained a new level of liberalism -- not accepting responsibility and putting the blame on others.
    Lol you missed the point so hard that if you keep going the same direction, you'll meet it on the other end...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  41. #41
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Lol you missed the point so hard that if you keep going the same direction, you'll meet it on the other end...
    No kidding. I can't figure out how he possibly thinks that what he said has anything to do with what I wrote.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  42. #42

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    No kidding. I can't figure out how he possibly thinks that what he said has anything to do with what I wrote.
    Re-read the foolish statement you made. Obama is in the middle of many scandals including unjust spying on Americans and lying about people being able to keep their insurance -- what American doesn't know that. This thread is about the lie of the year.

    You've ignored the scandals for the most part. If Obama were a republican you'd be calling for impeachment.

  43. #43
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Re-read the foolish statement you made. Obama is in the middle of many scandals including unjust spying on Americans and lying about people being able to keep their insurance -- what American doesn't know that. This thread is about the lie of the year.
    I've re-read the pair of statements six times. Yours has no connection to mine.

    Yes, Obama is in the middle of many scandals -- and you've been diverted from what's serious to what's trivial, and helped divert other people as well. Whether or not he lied, and how much, about insurance is far, far down on the list of what's critical for the nation, yet you set it above the fact that he flat out lied about the government's spying on people.

    So it appears that you think privacy and human rights are secondary at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You've ignored the scandals for the most part. If Obama were a republican you'd be calling for impeachment.
    I don't care whether the President is a Republican or Democrat. We've been through this before, and you've always embarrassed yourself by showing that you can't think in more than one dimension -- all you have is the imaginary R----D line, and nothing else.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  44. #44
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Wow it was even bigger than I thought, 59% and none of the other candidates over 9%. That's a home run! I think I have to agree with the one person's comment, "If you like your health plan, you can keep it" is Obama's "Read my lips", "I did not have sex with that woman", "I am not a crook" moment.
    In 2012, Politifact rated Obama's healthcare statement ("If you like your current plan, you can keep it.") as half-true.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...re-law-those-/

    How can a statement which Politifact regards as half true become their "lie of the year?"

    Is it unreasonable to ask that the "Lie of the Year" be an actual lie?
    Last edited by T-Rexx; December 14th, 2013 at 04:11 AM.

  45. #45
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    In 2012, Politifact rated Obama's healthcare statement ("If you like your current plan, you can keep it.") as half-true.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...re-law-those-/

    How can a statement which Politifact regards as half true become their "lie of the year?"

    Is it unreasonable to ask that the "Lie of the Year" be an actual lie?
    Correct, the actual winning lie is the pathetic attempt to retroactively go back and add the missing asterisk that made that lie half true. "What we really meant was...." statements the White House made this year when the full truth became obvious this year. That was rated "Pants on Fire". Also remember that a half truth contains falsehood or deception, that is why it is a half truth. The White House continued to end the statement with a period instead of an asterisk, long after it was clear that the statement was never going to be entirely true and repeated it often. There is no way to see that on analysis but a deliberate effort of political spin and deception to deflect attention away from a specific negative about the ACA. That the negative being spun was the same as one that helped kill Clinton's health care initiative is very telling and the obvious reason why it was done. The fact that there is some truth to it does not make it any less an intentional deception played out to the American people, unless you want to assume that Obama and his staff are idiots and believed their own spin. Remember the best lies are always wrapped in a bit of truth to make them easier to swallow.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  46. #46

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!


  47. #47

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!


  48. #48
    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    .
    ^^^
    Who is this? Is ODS covered by the ACA?

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  49. #49
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    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Also remember that a half truth contains falsehood or deception, that is why it is a half truth.
    No, a "half-truth" is NOT a "falsehood or deception."

    "Half-truths" occur because people make statements that are, in fact, essentially true, but do not necessarily cover every conceivable aspect of the situation in question.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    The White House continued to end the statement with a period instead of an asterisk, long after it was clear that the statement was never going to be entirely true and repeated it often.
    Your statement "was never going to be entirely true" acknowledges that the claim is, in fact, essentially true.

    The fact remains, a statement which is essentially true is being lauded as the "lie of the year."

    So I ask again, is it so much to ask that the "Lie of the Year" be an actual lie?

  50. #50

    Re: It's that time again...Politifact's Lie of the Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    .
    ^^^
    Who is this? Is ODS covered by the ACA?
    Yes.

    http://www.mentalhealth.gov/get-help...nce/index.html

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