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  1. #51
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    I assume that the metrics established in the Accord are meaningful. I do hope, however, the inspections are more than "a peak over the backyard fence." In the past we have heard that so much of the Iranian program is underground, literally. I would imagine too that NSA/CIA are in the hot seat on this one. The trump card in the Accord is China, with whom the US has worked successfully in circumscribing Iran's nuclear efforts.

  2. #52

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    It has been clear for some time that Obama has no intention of preventing Iran from getting the bomb. Perhaps if he could talk them out of it, but he is friendlier to Muslims than to Israel.

  3. #53
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    It has been clear for some time that Obama has no intention of preventing Iran from getting the bomb. Perhaps if he could talk them out of it, but he is friendlier to Muslims than to Israel.
    In your opinion, what is the best way to prevent Iran from getting a bomb from here, methods which Israel and the US have not tried.

  4. #54

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    you right wingers are so unbelievably dumb

    its thanks to obama that sanctions have worked for the first time, basically, ever. and its thanks to them that we might actually get a concrete peace deal and avoid having to go to war again.

  5. #55
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    I assume that the metrics established in the Accord are meaningful. I do hope, however, the inspections are more than "a peak over the backyard fence." In the past we have heard that so much of the Iranian program is underground, literally. I would imagine too that NSA/CIA are in the hot seat on this one. The trump card in the Accord is China, with whom the US has worked successfully in circumscribing Iran's nuclear efforts.
    People with the same attitude as my cousin the nuclear engineer would be good to send -- he thinks inspections are futile unless you have permission to shut systems off and examine them in detail. But then he worked in safety systems, so . . . .

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  6. #56
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    you right wingers are so unbelievably dumb

    its thanks to obama that sanctions have worked for the first time, basically, ever. and its thanks to them that we might actually get a concrete peace deal and avoid having to go to war again.
    I think Iran wanted this deal under Obama before a hardline Republican comes to office and lets Israel bomb the shit out of Natanz and Isfahan.

  7. #57
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    I think Iran wanted this deal under Obama before a hardline Republican comes to office and lets Israel bomb the shit out of Natanz and Isfahan.
    It's nice to have Republicans to threaten bad guys with. The flip side is we have to put up with their domestic policies.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  8. #58

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    I think Iran wanted this deal under Obama before a hardline Republican comes to office and lets Israel bomb the shit out of Natanz and Isfahan.
    well everyone who actually follow foreign policy awwm ro agree that Iran wanted this deal because the public there wants them to do something about the sanctions, and voted in a new leader mainly on that issue.

    the idea that republicans are somehow better for foreign diplomacy (or anything) is pretty laughable. Obama is leagues better than Bush was.
    Last edited by naglfarii; December 1st, 2013 at 05:36 PM.

  9. #59
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    the idea that republicans are somehow better for foreign diplomacy (or anything) is pretty laughable. Obama is leagues better than Bush was.
    No, but they are certainly scarier.


    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  10. #60
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    No, but they are certainly scarier.

    Or trigger happy...

  11. #61
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Or trigger happy...
    Which makes them scarier.

    Kinda like a guy out hunting who forgets where his shotgun is pointing and shoots a fellow hunter.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  12. #62
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    well everyone who actually follow foreign policy awwm ro agree that Iran wanted this deal because the public there wants them to do something about the sanctions, and voted in a new leader mainly on that issue.

    the idea that republicans are somehow better for foreign diplomacy (or anything) is pretty laughable. Obama is leagues better than Bush was.
    It is a fallacy to believe there is a new government in Iran. The 8 (I think that was the number) candidates who ran in their 'elections' all had to be given the blessing of the real leaders of Iran the SUPREME leader who vastly outranks their president. Policy will not change substantially, because they won't allow it. The regime still engages in its standard duplicity, saying one thing in English to the world, and another in Farsi. They still demonize Israel and vow its destruction and the West is still the enemy.

    The new president is just a shiny facade they've placed over their evil regime. They are not pursuing nuclear power, they are pursuing nuclear weapons as they always have. They're trying to even the balance of power with their arch nemesis Israel. It is still illegal to be gay in Iran, or to disagree with the government in any way and it's punishable by death. When the sanctions went in, they diverted money from their populace, depriving them of food and other basic necessities to continue pushing forward with their 'peaceful nuclear program.'

    Regular Iranians don't even support this deal, though some do. Many feel sanctions SHOULD have continued despite their awful effects because at least then, there was SOME hope the regime might collapse, SOME hope that the country might be able to transform itself as it tried to do last time Ahmedinjad was 'elected.' This is still an unstable country run by nutters. Obama wants to look like he accomplished something meaningful in his time as president. After all Obamacare didn't work out as expected (whatever the reason) and he has essentially ignored the massacre of 100,000 Syrians after some tough talk earlier this year. He was looking for a way to pat himself on the back and rapprochement with Iran seemed like a good bet. Those who blindly follow Obama regardless of his ineptitude will sing his praises and the republicans hate him anyways so he had little to lose.

    The Iranians saw an easy mark and they took advantage of him. Obama clearly lacks the spine to continue Americas tradition of trying to do the right thing and he may have just made the largest political blunder since the Vietnam war. The 8 billion dollars Iran now has at its disposal will undoubtedly be used to lessen the plight of the Iranian people to some extent but if history is any indication, the vast majority of those funds will be directed towards their military program, terrorist organizations, the Syrian massacre and their 'peaceful nuclear program'

    Frankly, I don't understand how 'world leaders' can be so patently naive. I don't propose to have an answer to the standoff but I do believe this is a step backwards. More sanctions for longer might have eventually inspired the Iranian people to rise up again as they did a few years ago or it may not have. I don't think bombing Iran into the stone age would be the solution either as it would likely cause collateral damage that would further incense the Muslim world (then again cartoons and a wacko pastor in the south incense them to violence so .... ) Maybe all those aircraft carriers and missile boats and all the advanced American armaments could have been used to bomb their nuclear program at least.. that was probably the best idea but the damn bleeding hearts in the U.S. would have cried foul and the Democrats rely on those bleeding hearts for votes. Obama was already in it pretty deep with them for his drone assassinations and other militaristic (read: American) practices.

    Iran is not a friendly, nice country. Things don't run there in a way any North American or European would recognize but most people don't know anything about Iran except whatever their shepherds tell them to believe. I know assassinations of political leaders quietly became faux pas many years ago but in the case of Iran, wiping out the clerical order might have been a good idea too *shrug*. I personally feel religion in general has no place in the modern world, let alone theocracies but that's just me.

    Maybe the new pope can solve all this, he seems like a pretty smart guy.

  13. #63
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    ^Transparently your "understandings" are not shared by the governments of The United States, The United Kingdom, France, Germany et al whose intelligence services are rather better informed on life in Iran.....

  14. #64
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    well everyone who actually follow foreign policy awwm ro agree that Iran wanted this deal because the public there wants them to do something about the sanctions, and voted in a new leader mainly on that issue.

    the idea that republicans are somehow better for foreign diplomacy (or anything) is pretty laughable. Obama is leagues better than Bush was.
    Correct......

  15. #65
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    ^Transparently your "understandings" are not shared by the governments of The United States, The United Kingdom, France, Germany et al whose intelligence services are rather better informed on life in Iran.....
    If they based their assessments on the intelligence community, the stance of the country wouldn't change when the governing party did. Also, it is naive to think the decisions of the aforementioned governments are based on logic and fact alone. Politics are far more complicated than that. My understanding of Iran comes from Iranians I've spoken to or read about and research I've done in 10 years of academic political science. Your assumptions are baseless and I'm not even sure what you are referring to by "life in Iran." The only intelligence services member I've heard speak openly on this issue anyways it's the former cia chief and he wasn't happy with the deal.

    The supreme leaders of the country haven't changed, therefore it it's highly unlikely that their policy overall has. I'm glad you have such faith in the governments of the world. The same governments that are doing such a bang up job on everything... global warming, poverty, famine, war all of these things have been eliminated by the infallible governments of Europe and the United States... *giggle*

  16. #66
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    ^I am well aware that the more hawkish apologists of Israel are very concerned that their traditional allies are assuming a much more engaging policy with Iran....a policy that I believe will lessen tensions throughout the Middle East....meantime, your personal opinion is noted.

  17. #67

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    you right wingers are so unbelievably dumb

    its thanks to obama that sanctions have worked for the first time, basically, ever. and its thanks to them that we might actually get a concrete peace deal and avoid having to go to war again.
    ... a concrete peace deal is based on what? A fake agreement that does nothing to curtail Iran's move into a nuclear war power?

    Once Iran has the bomb .. so will at least Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Kerry, the french speaking SOS, has nothing -- no concessions or promises. We gave them their money back and stopped the sanctions. Sanctions will never be put in place again.

    The US and it's allies were fools for trusting Iran. Only time will tell.

    Left wingers are so unbelievably dumb.

  18. #68
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    ^The same "thinking" encouraged the United States into a war in Vietnam based on the so called domino theory....

    Even the more balanced security, and military analysts in Israel understand that engagement with Iran will help cool down the region's violence....where Iran's fingers are actively involved in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan....it's much, much more than restraining Iran's development of nuclear weapons....it's a matter of geo-political common sense that Iran is part of the solution to the destablisation of the Middle East...with the governments of the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Germany and others recognising that sanctions imposed on Iran is merely pouring fuel on the furnace....and adding to the misery of the peoples of the Middle East.

  19. #69

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    ^The same "thinking" encouraged the United States into a war in Vietnam based on the so called domino theory....

    Even the more balanced security, and military analysts in Israel understand that engagement with Iran will help cool down the region's violence....where Iran's fingers are actively involved in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan....it's much, much more than restraining Iran's development of nuclear weapons....it's a matter of geo-political common sense that Iran is part of the solution to the destablisation of the Middle East...with the governments of the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Germany and others recognising that sanctions imposed on Iran is merely pouring fuel on the furnace....and adding to the misery of the peoples of the Middle East.
    Do you honestly think that Iran is serious and has changed their thinking about the west? I'd like you to show me some proof.

  20. #70
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Do you honestly think that Iran is serious and has changed their thinking about the west? I'd like you to show me some proof.
    Yes.....the proof is available to those nations that have chosen to engage with Iran...including your own....I do not work for the CIA, or MI6 therefore cannot provide you with the quality of intelligence that you are demanding.

  21. #71
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ... a concrete peace deal is based on what? A fake agreement that does nothing to curtail Iran's move into a nuclear war power?

    Once Iran has the bomb .. so will at least Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Kerry, the french speaking SOS, has nothing -- no concessions or promises. We gave them their money back and stopped the sanctions. Sanctions will never be put in place again.

    The US and it's allies were fools for trusting Iran. Only time will tell.

    Left wingers are so unbelievably dumb.
    Obviously, you don't like peace with Iran.

    So, what do you propose? Starting a war with Iran?

    Do you Republicans have a solution to any problem that doesn't involve killing people?

  22. #72

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Obviously, you don't like peace with Iran.

    So, what do you propose? Starting a war with Iran?

    Do you Republicans have a solution to any problem that doesn't involve killing people?
    Why did you go to the extreme? In no way did I say I wanted to go to war with Iran.

    If you read what I wrote, I was asking what 'the agreement' did for the west .. it does a lot for Iran .. but I don't see anything he does for us.

    Possibly you can answer that.

    Don't worry, liberals and democrats have won the war on causing the most deaths -- almost 60 million babies have died during the last 60 years in the USA of liberal and democrat ideology.

  23. #73

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Yes.....the proof is available to those nations that have chosen to engage with Iran...including your own....I do not work for the CIA, or MI6 therefore cannot provide you with the quality of intelligence that you are demanding.
    So you follow blindly.

  24. #74
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    In your opinion, what is the best way to prevent Iran from getting a bomb from here, methods which Israel and the US have not tried.
    No takers?

  25. #75
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    I think that the way to approach it is to bring Iran back into the community of civilized nations and in the same way as the rapprochement with the USSR and China finally brought about significant relaxation of hostile intentions and in the case of the former, helped undercut the entire regime....so bringing Iran into the discussion on an intensive basis will effectively destroy the stranglehold that the Revolutionary Guard and the Ayatollahs have on the people of Iran.

  26. #76

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    The most severe sanctions possible, quickly imposed were the only chance we had without war. Gradually applying sanctions allowed Obama to make many speeches, while allowing Iran to adjust,mandate now letting up the pressure was designed to fail. Meanwhlie Iran had several years to beef up its military with purchases from Russia, No Korea and China, while dispersing its nuclear facilities and putting them under ground. It is probably no longer feasible to use military force and Iran will get the bomb. I do not believe Obama ever intended to prevent it. Nothing on his Teleprompter told him to get serious.

  27. #77

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ... a concrete peace deal is based on what? A fake agreement that does nothing to curtail Iran's move into a nuclear war power?

    Once Iran has the bomb .. so will at least Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Kerry, the french speaking SOS, has nothing -- no concessions or promises. We gave them their money back and stopped the sanctions. Sanctions will never be put in place again.

    The US and it's allies were fools for trusting Iran. Only time will tell.

    Left wingers are so unbelievably dumb.
    I don't think you know a single thing about this deal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...agreement.html

    the deal does plenty, and the worst sanctions are still in place.

    its only a first step too, but it totally halts any possible weaponization of uranium or plutonium. so when you say it does nothing, it only makes you look like a complete moron

  28. #78

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The most severe sanctions possible, quickly imposed were the only chance we had without war. Gradually applying sanctions allowed Obama to make many speeches, while allowing Iran to adjust,mandate now letting up the pressure was designed to fail. Meanwhlie Iran had several years to beef up its military with purchases from Russia, No Korea and China, while dispersing its nuclear facilities and putting them under ground. It is probably no longer feasible to use military force and Iran will get the bomb. I do not believe Obama ever intended to prevent it. Nothing on his Teleprompter told him to get serious.
    the sanctions on iran are the most severe in history by a large margin

    again, right wingers, you are clueless. you've been lied to by fox news and your awful right wing blogs, about basically everything. this is what they call the conservative bubble, where you believe in a totally different 'reality' than what exists.

  29. #79
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    So you follow blindly.
    No, I'm better informed....than you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    the sanctions on iran are the most severe in history by a large margin

    again, right wingers, you are clueless. you've been lied to by fox news and your awful right wing blogs, about basically everything. this is what they call the conservative bubble, where you believe in a totally different 'reality' than what exists.
    Encore..........................

  30. #80
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    No takers?
    Orbital Mind Control Lasers

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  31. #81
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    I don't think you know a single thing about this deal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...agreement.html

    the deal does plenty, and the worst sanctions are still in place.
    The biggest piece is that inspectors get to show up daily.

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    its only a first step too, but it totally halts any possible weaponization of uranium or plutonium. so when you say it does nothing, it only makes you look like a complete moron
    Actually, that's any known weaponization -- it's still possible they may have hidden facilities.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  32. #82
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Why did you go to the extreme? In no way did I say I wanted to go to war with Iran.
    You object to a peace treaty with Iran.

    The only alternative to peace is war.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    If you read what I wrote, I was asking what 'the agreement' did for the west .. it does a lot for Iran .. but I don't see anything he does for us.
    You have been quite clear. The peace "agreement" with Iran does nothing "for us."

    It is obvious you want war with Iran. You find the peace deal objectionable.

    Peace, in your view, is only beneficial to Iran. As you say, "It does a lot for Iran." But you "don't see anything" that it "does for us."

    It is my experience that Republicans do not like agreements with foreign powers that do not involve war. Peace is not a Republican value. Every Republican president over the past 33 years has found it necessary to attack someone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Possibly you can answer that.
    Possibly I can answer what peace does for the USA?

    Do you really need primer on the value of peace?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Don't worry, liberals and democrats have won the war on causing the most deaths -- almost 60 million babies have died during the last 60 years in the USA of liberal and democrat ideology.
    Good grief!

    This thread is about Iran, not abortion!

    Did you know that abortion is illegal in Iran? Evidently, you support Muslim fundamentalist values. The Ayatollah and the Tea Party are ideologically the same. You advocate the same religious theocracy for the USA that Iran enjoys today. You seem to be a great admirer of their way of life.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; December 2nd, 2013 at 01:18 PM.

  33. #83
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Good grief!

    This thread is about Iran, not abortion!
    Gotta wonder what page of the "How to change the subject" manual that's on....

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  34. #84
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Actually, that's any known weaponization -- it's still possible they may have hidden facilities.
    That information would have leaked by now, or the US and Israeli governments know about them and aren't revealing that they know (quite likely). We have rooms full of spies whom pore over satellite photos looking for the telltale signs of nuclear industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Good grief!

    This thread is about Iran, not abortion!
    Agreed. Totally off topic, but that is how the pro-life movement genuinely views the issue from their side.
    Last edited by Alnitak; December 2nd, 2013 at 03:13 PM.

  35. #85
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    That information would have leaked by now, or the US and Israeli governments know about them and aren't revealing that they know (quite likely). We have rooms full of spies whom pore over satellite photos looking for the telltale signs of nuclear industry.
    Looking for signs of NORMAL nuclear industry. What's needed to put together a basic but crude bomb could be done totally out of sight. Granted, it would hardly be military-scale, but it could be done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Agreed. Totally off topic, but that is how the pro-life movement genuinely views the issue from their side.
    And that's worth remembering -- it's a radical difference in world-views.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  36. #86

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    No takers?
    What if Obama came on national TV with 50 people of different racial backgrounds and gender standing behind him and he said that Iran has been lying and they have not been working on a bomb after all. He tells us that it's all just a misunderstanding and that he's been invited to visit Tehran in the spring.

  37. #87

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    I don't think you know a single thing about this deal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...agreement.html

    the deal does plenty, and the worst sanctions are still in place.

    its only a first step too, but it totally halts any possible weaponization of uranium or plutonium. so when you say it does nothing, it only makes you look like a complete moron
    Can you utter a sentence without degrading others? Learn some manners.

    I suggest you reread the article. The article talks in platitudes -- not reality.

  38. #88

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    No, I'm better informed....than you.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Encore..........................
    You didn't answer or support your claim. You follow blindly.

  39. #89

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    You object to a peace treaty with Iran.

    The only alternative to peace is war.




    You have been quite clear. The peace "agreement" with Iran does nothing "for us."

    It is obvious you want war with Iran. You find the peace deal objectionable.

    Peace, in your view, is only beneficial to Iran. As you say, "It does a lot for Iran." But you "don't see anything" that it "does for us."

    It is my experience that Republicans do not like agreements with foreign powers that do not involve war. Peace is not a Republican value. Every Republican president over the past 33 years has found it necessary to attack someone.




    Possibly I can answer what peace does for the USA?

    Do you really need primer on the value of peace?




    Good grief!

    This thread is about Iran, not abortion!

    Did you know that abortion is illegal in Iran? Evidently, you support Muslim fundamentalist values. The Ayatollah and the Tea Party are ideologically the same. You advocate the same religious theocracy for the USA that Iran enjoys today. You seem to be a great admirer of their way of life.
    Are we at peace or at war with North Korea?

    You still can't answer anything the west got for the agreement - because we got nothing. Iran is moving full speed ahead.

    Peace means peace for everyone -- including young children.

  40. #90
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    What if Obama came on national TV with 50 people of different racial backgrounds and gender standing behind him and he said that Iran has been lying and they have not been working on a bomb after all. He tells us that it's all just a misunderstanding and that he's been invited to visit Tehran in the spring.
    Try responding to the question.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  41. #91
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I suggest you reread the article. The article talks in platitudes -- not reality.
    Bullshit, Jack -- the article is full of specifics.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  42. #92
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Are we at peace or at war with North Korea?
    Heh -- good catch. There's lots of room in between.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You still can't answer anything the west got for the agreement - because we got nothing. Iran is moving full speed ahead.
    Only in the fantasies of those who didn't (or refuse to) read. There are some very specific items in there that will at the very least slow Iran down. I'm not convinced they can't get around it, but it does seem sufficient to cripple any serious program to produce militarily useful weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Peace means peace for everyone -- including young children.
    That's something the GOP opposes over and over in domestic policy, and foreign as well. You want peace for children? Let's start in this country, first by raising the individual exemption (in federal income taxes) to the poverty level, and then passing legislation to let kids dragged to this country by their parents be Americans (as they actually are anyway), and then raise taxes back to a good conservative level sufficient to actually deal with the debt.

    Otherwise you just prove what the liberals claim: those of the GOP love the unborn, but hate actual children.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  43. #93

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Bullshit, Jack -- the article is full of specifics.
    I gave my idea. Ignore that they have the bomb.

    Obama is ignoring that the Syrian war is still going on and that the healthcare.gov web site is working and secure. He also ignored that the US won a victory in Iraq and wasted the peace.

  44. #94

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Heh -- good catch. There's lots of room in between.



    Only in the fantasies of those who didn't (or refuse to) read. There are some very specific items in there that will at the very least slow Iran down. I'm not convinced they can't get around it, but it does seem sufficient to cripple any serious program to produce militarily useful weapons.



    That's something the GOP opposes over and over in domestic policy, and foreign as well. You want peace for children? Let's start in this country, first by raising the individual exemption (in federal income taxes) to the poverty level, and then passing legislation to let kids dragged to this country by their parents be Americans (as they actually are anyway), and then raise taxes back to a good conservative level sufficient to actually deal with the debt.

    Otherwise you just prove what the liberals claim: those of the GOP love the unborn, but hate actual children.
    You're getting very good with the typical liberal talking points.

  45. #95

    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by naglfarii View Post
    the sanctions on iran are the most severe in history by a large margin

    again, right wingers, you are clueless. you've been lied to by fox news and your awful right wing blogs, about basically everything. this is what they call the conservative bubble, where you believe in a totally different 'reality' than what exists.
    The problem is that by applying the sanctions gradually we gave them too much time. Now we are relaxing them. Do you seriously believe Iran has slowed it's development of the bomb?

  46. #96
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Are we at peace or at war with North Korea?
    What does that have to do with the deal with Iran?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You still can't answer anything the west got for the agreement - because we got nothing.
    Of course I can answer what the west got for the agreement.

    First, we get peace. It's interesting to me that you Republicans always regard "peace" as "nothing." It strikes me as a valuable thing.

    But the deal also halts the installation of new centrifuges in Iran used to enrich uranium. It caps the amount and type of enriched uranium that Iran is allowed to produce. It halts work on Iran's heavy-water reactor. It allows inspectors much, much greater access to Iran's nuclear facilities to monitor compliance.

    I can see why you Republicans regard all of this as "nothing," however. Nothing gets blown up, nothing gets attacked, and nobody dies. Republicans cannot abide an agreement that does not result in at least a few deaths.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Iran is moving full speed ahead.
    Iran moving ahead full speed is what has been happening without the agreement.

    Do you believe that Iran would stop development of a bomb if there was no deal?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Peace means peace for everyone -- including young children.
    Yes, of course it does. And peace is something your political party objects to.

  47. #97
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    .
    But the deal also halts the installation of new centrifuges in Iran used to enrich uranium. It caps the amount and type of enriched uranium that Iran is allowed to produce. It halts work on Iran's heavy-water reactor. It allows inspectors much, much greater access to Iran's nuclear facilities to monitor compliance.

    Well noted..................

  48. #98
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    the deal caps the amount and type of enriched uranium that Iran is allowed to produce.
    Iran will also dilute its existing stockpile of 20% enriched uranium.

  49. #99
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I gave my idea. Ignore that they have the bomb.

    Obama is ignoring that the Syrian war is still going on and that the healthcare.gov web site is working and secure. He also ignored that the US won a victory in Iraq and wasted the peace.
    What the frak do those statements have to do with the post you were supposedly responding to?

    Answer: nothing.

    So you attempt to defend your bullshit by changing the subject.

    Or were you responding to a different post than the one you quoted???

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  50. #100
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    Re: Iran .... another Red Line in 6 Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You're getting very good with the typical liberal talking points.
    I don't know anything about liberal talking points. I do know that I've done a heck of a lot of studying of economics since I've been on this board, and found what GOP policies actually do, as opposed to what the politicians say they do. And I also actually read articles, which apparently you didn't, because you were dead wrong about the latest one.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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