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Thread: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

      
   
  1. #1

    Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    The first President I have any memory of is vague and fuzzy recollections of Bush Senior during the first Gulf War.

    So no memories of Kennedy here. As far as I'm concerned JFK is an overrated President. Not overrated in the sense of how much people liked him, but of his actual historical significance. Some people might argue the Cuban Missle crisis, but so what? It was the Cold War Era. I fail to see what he did that shaped any real issue we deal with today. The only real significance I can grasp is that he was asassinated which stunned everyone at the time even though it wasn't like he was the first President to be murdered after Lincoln. I also find the obsession many have over Camelot to be repulsive and proof that my Social Studies textbook lied to me when it said all the Loyalists moved to Canada.

    Johnson and his Great(or should it be Not-So Great?) Society had by far more impact on the issues we face today, and Camelot is nothing but a sideshow.
    Don't do scat, kids. It means you're a Republican.

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    Re: Memories of President Kennedy

    ^wow, how sad.

  3. #3

    Re: Memories of President Kennedy

    Quote Originally Posted by ElmosToe View Post





    I'd say that's like saying Obama killed Bin Landen, but Obama had more impact in killing Bin Laden than Kenndey did in going to the moon.

    In either case none of this justifies the love affair people have with this dead president.
    Last edited by Vitamin; November 21st, 2013 at 04:39 PM.

  4. #4

    Re: Memories of President Kennedy

    He was glamorous, but not a good President. He was elected by a narrow margin achieved by his father's mob buddies stuffing the ballot boxes in Illinois; by his hiding his serious medical problems, and by hiding his marital infidelities. Even to day it is doubtful that he could be elected if the public knew of his practice of cheating of his wife. And no, they were not irrelevant. they subjected him to blackmail. He wanted to fire J Edgar Hoover, but could not because Hoover knew about his philandering. He got us into Vietnam, and there is no evidence he would have gotten us out. He made nice speeches but they were written by someone else. His apotheosis discredits his party.

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    Re: Memories of President Kennedy

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    He was glamorous, but not a good President. He was elected by a narrow margin achieved by his father's mob buddies stuffing the ballot boxes in Illinois; by his hiding his serious medical problems, and by hiding his marital infidelities. Even to day it is doubtful that he could be elected if the public knew of his practice of cheating of his wife. And no, they were not irrelevant. they subjected him to blackmail. He wanted to fire J Edgar Hoover, but could not because Hoover knew about his philandering. He got us into Vietnam, and there is no evidence he would have gotten us out. He made nice speeches but they were written by someone else. His apotheosis discredits his party.
    Your distant mirror of history is a bit cloudy. There is not one relevant fact in your post. If people like you were alive in 1963, Kennedy would already have been impeached. Oh by the way, Kennedy picked his nose too.

    apotheosis
    Impressive!

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    Re: Memories of President Kennedy

    I met Arthur Schlesinger. He was a true prick, and never stopped self-promoting his service to the President and following administrations.

    Kennedy was not a mediocre president, that much is true. Is he over-praised and romanticized? Sure, and thus has been the fortune of all such martyrs. His vast wealth didn't hurt the process that entombs in amber those who die such deaths. It is trite but true to repeat that the Kennedy clan took on the role of royals in the U.S.

    And let's be honest: due to television and the Kennedy PR machine, they are the first couple to serve in the media age in the White House who might be fairly described as sexy. Nixon knew it hurt him after that debate, and it continues to play and inordinate role to this day. Old is out.

    Did President Kennedy's father keep pushing sons forward until he got a president out of the litter? Sure. Did JFK make good use of his brief service to inspire a nation? Absolutely. In the end, it is no valid criticism to say a president reads a speechwriter's words, as long as he owns them.

    We properly mourn a true leader of the people. The death of Garfield evoked no such angst in the nation. Kennedy is justly compared to Lincoln, although his service may have been far less than Lincoln's. Both had serious flaws as presidents, but that should not be the basis for contending they were bad presidents.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

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    Re: Memories of President Kennedy

    Loser who refused to give his wealth away.

    No respect for that family.
    Last edited by cgymike; November 22nd, 2013 at 01:18 AM.
    Your post comments are forwarded to the CIA.

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    Your post comments are forwarded to the CIA.

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    Despite his many human frailties, and failings Jack Kennedy represented the best, and the worst in human endeavour a man cut down in the prime of his life knowing, that whom the gods love, die young....and John Fitzgerald Kennedy was loved, much....

    Here's a few of his words that he failed to deliver, for death intervened:
    We in this country, in this generation, are, by destiny rather than choice, the watchmen on the walls of world freedom. We ask, therefore, that we may be worthy of our power and responsibility, that we may exercise our strength with wisdom and restraint, and that we may achieve in our time and for all time the ancient vision of ‘peace on earth, goodwill toward men.’ That must always be our goal, and the righteousness of our cause must always underlie our strength. For as it was written long ago, ‘except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.’ Undelivered luncheon speech, Dallas, Texas November 22, 1963

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    Wow! What a different America it was. I remember when Reagan used the phrase "the evil empire" in reference to Russia, and how offended I was at the injection of religion into international political rhetoric. I can't imagine the backlash if a contemporary president used "righteousness" in a speech in office, unless he were stumping for re-election and addressing a church group.

    I tend to think Kennedy portrayed in the media as "young" or "in his prime" is pure myth, as he was debilitated severely and reminded me more of Roosevelt in the elaborate measures taken to control the image of a sick man as Commander in Chief. So it is with almost all heads of state to some degree. But, he was unquestionably at the height of his power, and younger Americans DID see him as the embodiment of a changed atmosphere in which old men in wide-brimmed fedoras were no longer the image of power. The hope he engendered is not unlike what the U.S. youth witnessed when then Senator Obama's campaign captured something.

    In an age in which we celebrate the death of English and its power as a motivator, I do mourn one of the last great orators of the White House. Since he left us, we were given the scolding and wearied Johnson, the shifty and duplicitous Nixon, the clipped speech and all-too-egalitarian words of Carter, the shallow and propagandistic double-speak of Reagan, the tired and weak delivery of Bush Sr., the blatant verbal diarrhea of Clinton, the halting and bird-like tenuous speeches of Bush Jr., and finally the chop-chop-chop of President Obama's start-and-stop staccato. The only speech I have heard with any real power of oratory lately was Mayor Castro's in the recent Demorcratic National Convention. I pray more of his kind are in the shadows.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

  11. #11

    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    His death has obscured the picture, allowing the Democrats and their media to create the illusion that Kennedy was wildly popular. In actual fact, he squeaked into office by a dishonest election and was disliked by half the country. The Bay of Pigs was incompetently handled by him, personally. He should either have abandoned it at the beginning or followed through with it. Instead he induced our Cuban allies to go in but abandoned them at the last. His admirers like to pretend that he did not get us into Vietnam and blame it on others.

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    It also didn't hurt that Bobby and Teddy were around for years after to keep the coals burning.

    Still, the Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missile Crisis, and Vietnam were not his only legacies. One doesn't have to bow down at the Kennedy shrine to honestly assess his role in history and concede that he was a true leader despite major failures of foreign policy.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    My understanding of it is, that he was a master at "Brinkmanship" and his courage of his convictions, more than likely stopped a nuclear exchange.
    Have no idea about others, though i find that bloody outstanding.

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    By the way, three federal judges nominated by Kennedy are still on the bench, albeit in senior status.

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    ^ This may have been his lasting legacy.

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by medic1 View Post
    My understanding of it is, that he was a master at "Brinkmanship" and his courage of his convictions, more than likely stopped a nuclear exchange. Have no idea about others, though i find that bloody outstanding.
    Many here would replace "master" with "lucky survivor." It is by no means clear that he was in charge of the events as they unraveled, and the entire planet was in jeopardy.

    It is generally held in statecraft circles that the failure to de-escalate the brinkmanship sooner very nearly allowed nuclear war to erupt. Even Kennedy's supporters generally shy away from the dangerous events of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

    Kruschev was later punished and ousted for his role in the perilous affair, and Kennedy's lack of foreign policy acumen is often cited here in the states as a cause for an unnecessarily risky confrontation.

    By no means is Kennedy ridiculed for the episode, but he isn't exactly credited with being the Churchill in our darkest hour either. People love him, even more in hindsight, but they don't put blinders on to the dangers of the policy.
    Last edited by Dejavudoo; November 22nd, 2013 at 06:36 AM.
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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    Thanks for the clarification, though i still think that what that man achieved, at that time. Was bloody outstanding.

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    As stated numerous times, he embodied more than the accomplished. The Peace Corps has actually dwindled in effectiveness, but its notion was so fresh and appealing, as were the carefully chosen and expertly delivered speeches of Kennedy.

    His presence in the White House caused an entire generation of Americans to have a can-do attitude and expectations as high as the moon, literally.

    In his honor today, I am making a few dozen fastnachts to take to work, an homage to his celebrated "Ich bin ein Berliner" comment. Our humanity is what makes us lovable, and Germans and Americans alike loved him for that speech.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    Interesting to see people bash a president, a dead one at that.

    It takes quite a strong person to be a president and those who love to bash them, I'd like to see you try to become a president and take on the stress and pressure of virtually the entire world and see how you fare.

    Washington, Lincoln and Kennedy all deserve the admiration and respect they get.
    The real history of these great men speaks for itself.

    I suppose some people should pull their heads out of their asses, locate their spines and grow the fuck up.

  20. #20

    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by ElmosToe View Post
    Interesting to see people bash a president...
    You are in the wrong thread, Elmos.

    This thread is meant for clear-headed assessments of the late politician; the other thread is for sentimental grieving towards the sacred hero—
    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/thre...sident-Kennedy

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    ^Clear-headed, eh? Ty, I needed that laugh.

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by ElmosToe View Post
    Interesting to see people bash a president, a dead one at that.

    . . .

    I suppose some people should pull their heads out of their asses, locate their spines and grow the fuck up.
    Quote Originally Posted by ElmosToe View Post
    ^Clear-headed, eh? Ty, I needed that laugh.
    As you haven't cited which posts you think are bashing the late president, your own post comes across as just general pissiness.

    Rather than discuss anything you have read, or offer to contradict it, you resort to name calling and rant.

    Every president from Washington forward has been all too aware that he will leave multiple legacies: his personal reputation, his accomplishments and failures, and his political debris. Dying of natural causes or horrendous ones will not wipe out those dimensions of remembrance. To have champions and detractors is the nature of both politics and elected office.

    You assert that it is somehow immature to remember the total man, his policies, his actions, and his life. For that to mean anything to a reader, you would need to somehow explain that, as it is little more than an invective at present.

    If a man deserves his acclaim, then he deserves his demerits as well. Death is not a bleaching agent.
    There are TWO kinds of people in the world -- the kind who believe there are two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

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    Re: Memories of President Kennedy

    I've never understood how people felt about Kennedy. There has never been that affection of a president since then. I can only imagine it was similar to when President Obama was elected.

    The only time I felt like I understood how people feel was on 9-11. I thought the World is falling apart and that's how I've heard Kennedy's assassination described
    Last edited by m1thousand; November 22nd, 2013 at 10:50 PM.

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    Re: Memories of President Kennedy

    http://truth-out.org/news/item/20135...ss-kim-il-sung

    I don't remember Kennedy for obvious reasons, but I hate this whole deification of him that is happening at the moment. This man rigged an election to beat Nixon by the slimmest of margins, he invaded Vietnam, made no moves on Civil Rights, started the Cuban Missile crisis by constantly attacking and invading Cuba. If he had lived he would be hated now, but early death makes saints of everyone...

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    Re: Memories of President Kennedy

    http://socialistworker.org/2003-2/477/477_10_JFK.shtml

    This is a good time to get critical for me, as we have the distance to study the era now. This article puts all the criticisms of Kennedy together well

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    Re: Memories of President Kennedy

    Quote Originally Posted by m1thousand View Post
    I've never understood how people felt about Kennedy. There has never been that affection of a president since then. I can only imagine it was similar to when President Obama was elected.

    The only time I felt like I understood how people feel was on 9-11. I thought the World is falling apart and that's how I've heard Kennedy's assassination described
    9-11 had no effect on Vancouver.

    The world is never falling apart.

    Humans are inferior creatures and will be exterminated.
    Your post comments are forwarded to the CIA.

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    Re: Memories of President Kennedy

    Quote Originally Posted by cgymike View Post
    Humans are inferior creatures and will be exterminated.
    Forward the workers bomb
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails workers bomb.png  

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    Re: Memories of President Kennedy

    Mike,
    I was talking about how I was . . .







    I didnt know about the man with the umbrella. I think Kennedy was hit from the front. I think Ruby silenced Oswald and the mob was behind it

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    Re: Memories of President Kennedy

    I forgot to say "based on the reaction of Kennedy's head going backwards" is why I think he was shot from the front.

    (If you punched a person in the face, their head goes backwards so the direction of Kennedy's head makes sense based on that analogy)


    ----Update ------

    I have watched a few programs about the Kennedy assassination. Im sorry if my interest in the topic got off course
    Last edited by m1thousand; November 23rd, 2013 at 04:06 AM.

  30. #30

    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    dunno
    but 20thcentury is likes da big finga a shame beyonds words ans toppins 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 ans 0 ans - 0 ans - 2 0s ans so on
    wit 21 dooins a blow out efforts a make 20th a nothin special

    but a happry fa 1st world folk of every land wavy flaggy ans salute there happy time ins luv wit white rabbits ans pages a ink ans socks ans etc so on

    " will miss da elefants a lot thankyou vary murch

    thankyou
    is nose snot aiien lube?

    screamgoshscream

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    Clint Hill (the man on the back of the limo) on Face the Nation (Sunday)

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]


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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    So Oswald would be alive if it weren't for a stripper?
    A stripped at Jack Ruby's club called him because she needed money for rent and groceries. Ruby was at home in his underwear. He went to Western Union to send her some money. And when he was done there, he noticed a group of people by the police station that was half a block away so he went there and shot Oswald
    Last edited by m1thousand; November 23rd, 2013 at 09:16 PM.

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    Nope mate, am pretty sure he would have faced old sparky or a firing squad. That is if he had survived his stay in prison.
    I was watching one of the many programs that are hitting the airwaves just now. I had no idea just how chronically sick the man was.
    I knew about his "womanizing" and his Military service, and being awarded a medal for losing his boat.
    His father apparently was just as bad in the fidelity field.

  35. #35

    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    I hate kennedy. He killed poor Marilyn. He got his comeuppance.

  36. #36

    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]

    Quote Originally Posted by melancholy View Post
    I hate kennedy. He killed poor Marilyn...
    He died with his secrets. Lets hope he confessed to his priest the Sunday before….or perhaps the White House had an in-house confessional?

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    Re: Discussion of President John F Kennedy [SPLIT]


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