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  1. #101
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    So you should have know what I was talking about without even reading the article ... you DID read the article didn't you?

    Maybe an apology is in order?
    Apologize? For What?

    Reread my post in question; specifically the part I bolded. Reading for comprehension is sadly becoming a lost skill...

  2. #102
    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    For example if we had a true democracy Obamacare would be dead today because most people are against it. With a true democracy the USA would probably be over before 1800.
    That's actually false.

    Most people are either for it or an improved version.

  3. #103

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    ^^

    Please explain.

  4. #104
    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    I have an unfavorable opinion of the Affordable Care Act in its current incarnation and the dimwit who setup healthcare.gov. That doesn't mean I want to repeal the law. We don't advance as a nation by retreating into the darkness when something doesn't work right the first time, wishing, hoping, fantasizing, that somehow things could have gone differently, never knowing what our true potential could have been. We fix it and move on.

    The Kaiser Family Foundation found that 47 percent of Americans want to expand (22 percent) or keep the law (25 percent). Conversely, 37 percent said they wanted to either repeal the law and replace it with some Republican alternative (13 percent) or repeal it without replacing it (24 percent).

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...than-repeal-it
    Last edited by Alnitak; November 25th, 2013 at 05:24 AM.

  5. #105

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    The 'dimwit' still has her job.

  6. #106
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Do you think Bill Gates didn't fire someone every time a new version of Windows debuted and publicly crashed?

  7. #107
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    I have an unfavorable opinion of the Affordable Care Act in its current incarnation and the dimwit who setup healthcare.gov. That doesn't mean I want to repeal the law. We don't advance as a nation by retreating into the darkness when something doesn't work right the first time, wishing, hoping, fantasizing, that somehow things could have gone differently, never knowing what our true potential could have been. We fix it and move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    The 'dimwit' still has her job.
    Prithee, of the many contestants of which one are we speaking? And are the dimwits exclusively female?

  8. #108
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    Prithee, of the many contestants of which one are we speaking? And are the dimwits exclusively female?
    One person cannot be responsible, but there are many who should have been competent or at least communicated the problem so that someone competent could take over. Obviously, Sibelius is one, but also the chief of staff, and others have been named here: http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...ov-100080.html

  9. #109

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    Prithee, of the many contestants of which one are we speaking? And are the dimwits exclusively female?
    I had the opportunity to observe Kitty Kat in office as governor of Kansas. She wasn't capable of that job and have no idea why she got the job as HHS Secretary. I'm guessing it's because she's a woman, a liberal, and holds the same extreme views on abortion as Obama.

    Obama can appoint whoever he wants as the new HHS Secretary. I'm guessing she'll be out soon after the first of the year .... of course to spend more time with her family.

  10. #110
    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I had the opportunity to observe Kitty Kat in office as governor of Kansas. She wasn't capable of that job and have no idea why she got the job as HHS Secretary. I'm guessing it's because she's a woman, a liberal, and holds the same extreme views on abortion as Obama.

    Obama can appoint whoever he wants as the new HHS Secretary. I'm guessing she'll be out soon after the first of the year .... of course to spend more time with her family.
    Don't you wonder how a Democratic woman could be elected governor of Kansas?

  11. #111

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Don't you wonder how a Democratic woman could be elected governor of Kansas?
    Contrary to what many people think, Kansas is very liberal.

  12. #112
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Contrary to what many people think, Kansas is very liberal.
    Well I know there is a RA Sushi there, and the state's high court disbarred the attorney general for harassing an abortion doctor.

  13. #113
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Well isnt that a cutsie patootsie emotional argument you've created???
    How is pointing out the historical failures of the filibuster "emotional?"

    You seek to color the historical, factual failures of the filibuster as mere "emotion" because you cannot find evidence of benefit for the filibuster sufficient to refute the negative argument.

    Yeah, slavery was a great thing for America, too. And all the arguments against it were just extremist appeals to emotion. Totally without merit.


    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I will ignore the ignorance and respond to the valid question. The first time it was used was to defeat to imposition of a national bank via restoring the charter of the Second National Bank. Very easy historical argument can be made that with a large national bank it would have been much more difficult to have the great depression. Mostly because the solution was to create a giant national bank entity. But that isn't direct so I am sure you will make some excuse up for that not being a good idea.
    That's it?

    Nearly two centuries of filibustering, and the best you can come up with is that it initially helped to prevent the development of what eventually became the Federal Reserve banking system?

    You're damn right I'm going to come up with an excuse for that not being a good idea! Because it was another failure of the filibuster!

    The fact is, you can't find a significant success of the filibuster in the last 176 years because there aren't any!


    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I am sure you cannot demonstrate the lack of value anymore than I can detail the value.
    You ignore my post #83 above. There have been many examples of bad consequences resulting from the filibuster.

    The filibuster was used to stop the civil rights movement, stop the League of Nations, and stop Lincoln from prosecuting the Civil War for the north. It has been used to prevent president Obama from fulfilling his constitutional mandate to fill judicial appointments and administrative positions. The filibuster does not merely "lack value." It is an anti-democratic institution that has historically been harmful to America.

    Moreover, the historical consequences of the filibuster have not been mere annoyances. It has been a disaster, again and again. I invited you to find counter-balancing positives of the filibuster, and you could not. You insist it must surely be wonderful because it has been around for such a long time, and has been talked about favorably by many important people. And yet, you cannot point to a single, significant example of good that it has done! While examples of its failures abound!


    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    And it a parliamentary procedure has NOTHING to do with a specific tear jerker human rights issue you want to flop out. It does have to do with the minority having a voice and ability to alter legislation.
    A "parliamentary procedure" is used to stop the civil rights movement for decades, and you claim that such a delay is inconsequential? That concern for the delay of civil rights is just emotion.

    Excuse me, but delaying the civil rights movement (by decades!) is not a "tear jerker" unconcern any more than delaying gay marriage or the repeal of DADT is just emotional drama for queens. The whole point of allowing the minority to sabotage the will of the majority is to enable a tiny group of zealots to stop the progress of great ideas. And that is almost 100% of the way in which the filibuster has been used.


    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    It has been abused recently and this adjustment is necessary.
    Correction: It has been abused historically.


    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I wonder, since it wasn't purposefully created, why they had to vote to remove the procedure for ending debate before it was created....
    The filibuster was not created intentionally, but cloture was. Cloture had to be invented because the filibuster would otherwise have made the Senate completely nonfunctional. The votes have concerned changing the rules for cloture.

    And the fact that cloture had to be invented to make the filibuster even somewhat tolerable says a lot.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; November 26th, 2013 at 08:19 AM.

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