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  1. #1
    JUB Addict darden's Avatar
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    Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Reid, Democrats trigger ‘nuclear’ option; eliminate most filibusters on nominees

    The partisan battles that have paralyzed Washington in recent years took a historic turn on Thursday, when Senate Democrats eliminated filibusters for most presidential nominations, severely curtailing the political leverage of the Republican minority in the Senate and assuring an escalation of partisan warfare.


    The rule change means federal judge nominees and executive-office appointments can be confirmed by a simple majority of senators, rather than the 60-vote super majority that has been required for more than two centuries...

    But the impact of the move is be more far-reaching. The means for executing this rules change — a simple-majority vote, rather than the long-standing two-thirds majority required to change the chamber’s standing rules — is more controversial than the actual move itself.


    Many Senate majorities have thought about using this technical maneuver to get around centuries of parliamentary precedent, but none has done so in a unilateral move on a major change of rules or precedents.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...c_story_1.html

    I'm curious to see what happens next... the use of the filibuster to keep the President from filling federal vacancies has always seemed absurd to me, whether we're talking GWB or Obama.

    I can understand it more when it comes to legislative bills, but I think that any nominee to a federal appointment should be entitled to a swift up or down vote (so that the applicant isn't held in limbo and that the job position can be filled)

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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Republicans are already crying and bedwetting because Reid did this...never mind that since 1977, Senate rules have changed a total of 18 times. Changing the rules is nothing new. Republicans have done it for decades. Good for Harry though Dems must also realize that this works both ways whenever repubs ever get back the Senate. Also this is only for certain non-Supreme Court judicial appointments, not general legislative efforts.

  3. #3

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Reid just declared war.


    He'll be despised by democrats and republicans for years to come.

    He broke his word.

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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Lol, the only reason to whine about it is if you don't believe a Republican will ever be President again or that the Republicans will ever have majority in the Senate again. And if you truly don't, that begs the question why?

    Unlike most law changes YOUR party tries to inflict on unwilling Americans, this particular one benefits anyone who holds the presidency and Senate. But you shining conservative beacons of virtue and high moral character, are welcome to change it back once you have control ^_^
    Last edited by Rolyo85; November 21st, 2013 at 02:51 PM.
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Both parties have made partisan agendas the most important aspect of judicial appointments, so the only reason the Republicans have to whine about here is they didn't get the chance to do this first.

    Madison's constitution depended on people elected to Congress behaving like statesmen. Since Senators started being elected directly, that's gone out the window entirely.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  6. #6

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    I'm not sure I agree that the problem is that senators are elected directly, Kulindahr. Congress has always been infested with whiny brats since the beginning. I think the solution is term limits that encompass both chambers. I think it's right to say that Madison (and others) never intended for politicians to create lifelong careers for themselves in Washington.

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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    That last is certainly true. But direct elections force senators to pander to the 'mob', which militates against the qualities of statesmanship.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  8. #8
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Both parties have made partisan agendas the most important aspect of judicial appointments, so the only reason the Republicans have to whine about here is they didn't get the chance to do this first.
    The appointment of judges is one of the "spoils of victory" for the winning party. I read somewhere that Pres. Obama was reelected. FDR packed the SCOTUS with progressive judges.

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  9. #9

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    225 years up in smoke.

  10. #10
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    225 years up in smoke.
    When, not if, the GOP has a majority again in the Senate, do you imagine they'll change it due to nostalgia over the historic right to unlimited debate?

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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Finally a small step back to democracy---majority rule---President elected and re-elected by 5 plus million americans can sorta of try to govern and put people in positions because he won--like the founders intended---not some made up 60-40 vote on everything. The gop is about power and are anti-american.

  12. #12

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    ^^^

    I have no idea. I doubt that it will be McConnell is charge when the next Congress starts in 2015 -- there will likely be a new majority leader.

    Ending something that is 225 years old should not be done lightly. Obama thinks he's had it harder than any other President. He hasn't had to deal with a civil war like Lincoln or a world war like FDR and Truman. All he does is whine and refuse to talk with anyone in the House or Senate -- he's one strange dude.

    Obama thought the nuclear option was a bad idea when he was a Senator and republicans were in control of the Senate. Republicans backed down.

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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^^

    I have no idea. I doubt that it will be McConnell is charge when the next Congress starts in 2015 -- there will likely be a new majority leader.

    Ending something that is 225 years old should not be done lightly. Obama thinks he's had it harder than any other President. He hasn't had to deal with a civil war like Lincoln or a world war like FDR and Truman. All he does is whine and refuse to talk with anyone in the House or Senate -- he's one strange dude.

    Obama thought the nuclear option was a bad idea when he was a Senator and republicans were in control of the Senate. Republicans backed down.
    There is nothing about tradition in itself that affirms or denies the morality of anything; it is a fallacy to state otherwise.

  14. #14

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by nycguydowntown View Post
    Finally a small step back to democracy---majority rule---President elected and re-elected by 5 plus million americans can sorta of try to govern and put people in positions because he won--like the founders intended---not some made up 60-40 vote on everything. The gop is about power and are anti-american.
    You might want to read this.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...fight/?hpid=z1

    "The Senate is on the verge of striking down nearly 225 years of precedent by ending the long-standing filibuster rules for most presidential nominations, a remarkable change in procedure that has been the subject of a years-long fight between Democrats and Republicans."

  15. #15

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    There is nothing about tradition in itself that affirms or denies the morality of anything; it is a fallacy to state otherwise.
    The over 200 year 'agreement' has worked - now the Senate is even more controlled by a man like Harry Reid. He's now the dictator of the Senate - he totally controls the Senate. Just because you can't always get your way and you whine like Obama isn't a reason for change. Two centuries of democrats and republicans have had to deal with filibuster rules. Why now?

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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    The over 200 year 'agreement' has worked - now the Senate is even more controlled by a man like Harry Reid. He's now the dictator of the Senate - he totally controls the Senate. Just because you can't always get your way and you whine like Obama isn't a reason for change. Two centuries of democrats and republicans have had to deal with filibuster rules. Why now?
    Because the filibuster has been subject to unprecedented and intolerable abuse. No Democrats did not filibuster the GOP Senate to this level.

  17. #17
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    .
    I hate to derail this thread with facts, but I'll do it anyway.

    From Article II, Section 2 of the United States Constitution:

    (The President) shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

    The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

    There is nothing in the Constitution about the filibuster.
    Last edited by chrisrobin; November 21st, 2013 at 06:06 PM.

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  18. #18

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    The over 200 year 'agreement' has worked - now the Senate is even more controlled by a man like Harry Reid. He's now the dictator of the Senate - he totally controls the Senate. Just because you can't always get your way and you whine like Obama isn't a reason for change. Two centuries of democrats and republicans have had to deal with filibuster rules. Why now?
    Come Jan 2014 and the Republicans will control Congress. The economy was good until the Dem take over in 2007 and the economy promptly collapsed. They imposed the incompetent Obamanation which gets worse by the day, while people now realize the a former community organizer--LOL--who can read nice speeches and lies if he has a teleprompter, is not qualified to be President. Without the filibuster obstructing them, the Republicans can finally solve some problems. For the short term the House can block most Democrat misdeeds. The filibuster will only give the Dems the ability to appoint more dishonest Judges and officials for a year. Then they will wish for their filibuster back.

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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Come Jan 2014 ...
    Do you mean 2015?

  20. #20
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Come Jan 2014 and the Republicans will control Congress. The economy was good until the Dem take over in 2007 and the economy promptly collapsed. They imposed the incompetent Obamanation which gets worse by the day, while people now realize the a former community organizer--LOL--who can read nice speeches and lies if he has a teleprompter, is not qualified to be President. Without the filibuster obstructing them, the Republicans can finally solve some problems. For the short term the House can block most Democrat misdeeds. The filibuster will only give the Dems the ability to appoint more dishonest Judges and officials for a year. Then they will wish for their filibuster back.
    The GOP has a great opportunity to win the Senate, but the Tea Party will blow it, and it won't be the first time.

  21. #21
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    When, not if, the GOP has a majority again in the Senate, do you imagine they'll change it due to nostalgia over the historic right to unlimited debate obstruction?
    .............
    Much better.

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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    There is nothing about tradition in itself that affirms or denies the morality of anything; it is a fallacy to state otherwise.
    Absolutely this. Not changing laws because they haven't been changed in a while is ridiculous. Especially in the face of the unprecedented political immaturity we see today.
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    The over 200 year 'agreement' has worked - now the Senate is even more controlled by a man like Harry Reid. He's now the dictator of the Senate - he totally controls the Senate. Just because you can't always get your way and you whine like Obama isn't a reason for change. Two centuries of democrats and republicans have had to deal with filibuster rules. Why now?
    Because in the 200 years there hasn't been a situation in which one political party was so uninterested in ANY political debate. You can keep your hands on your years and scream lalalalala to deny its yours. That changes nothing.
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^^

    I have no idea. I doubt that it will be McConnell is charge when the next Congress starts in 2015 -- there will likely be a new majority leader.

    Ending something that is 225 years old should not be done lightly. Obama thinks he's had it harder than any other President. He hasn't had to deal with a civil war like Lincoln or a world war like FDR and Truman. All he does is whine and refuse to talk with anyone in the House or Senate -- he's one strange dude.

    Obama thought the nuclear option was a bad idea when he was a Senator and republicans were in control of the Senate. Republicans backed down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You might want to read this.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...fight/?hpid=z1

    "The Senate is on the verge of striking down nearly 225 years of precedent by ending the long-standing filibuster rules for most presidential nominations, a remarkable change in procedure that has been the subject of a years-long fight between Democrats and Republicans."
    I'm not convinced about the 225 year claim -- they've changed the rules often enough that's kind of reaching.

    OTOH the filibuster has never just been tossed out, which is why I really don't like the "nuclear option". Sixty votes has become problematic since the process has become so partisan, but dropping to a straight majority is abrupt. Since they've always used fractions -- 2/3, 3/5 -- Reid could have urged moving to a new fraction, the easiest with round numbers involved being 11/20, which would be a requirement for 55 votes for nominees instead of 60.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  25. #25

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Because in the 200 years there hasn't been a situation in which one political party was so uninterested in ANY political debate. You can keep your hands on your years and scream lalalalala to deny its yours. That changes nothing.
    You need to take some some American history courses. There has always been disagreements in the Senate.

    Obama is whining.

  26. #26

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    The GOP has a great opportunity to win the Senate, but the Tea Party will blow it, and it won't be the first time.
    What I've read this evening is that some republicans in the Senate say they will take it further and do away with the 60 vote for Supreme Court justices. This is how wars start.

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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    225 years up in smoke.
    Baloney. Since 1977, Senate rules have been changed 18 times by both parties. We can't let Senate rules nullify the law. That's akin to shutting down the government just because you happen to hate Obamacare.

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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You need to take some some American history courses. There has always been disagreements in the Senate.

    Obama is whining.
    This is getting tiring. Jack, you're the one who's whining -- the history of this has been posted, and the fact is that the GOP holds the record for making sure nothing gets done. It's not about "disagreements", it's about the fact that they've been using every trick in the book to just kill legislation.

    OTOH it's almost guaranteed that if the Democrats lose control of the Senate, they'll set a new record for their own obstructionism, if not beat the Republicans'.


    edit: just hit me... Jack, you're like the kids I had in chemistry class who would seize on one piece of data from a lab exercise and argue that it meant a certain thing, totally ignoring the rest of the lab work. You're only looking at data that makes you happy.
    Last edited by Kulindahr; November 21st, 2013 at 09:15 PM.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  29. #29
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    The Republicans had their chance to use the option and did not, under a Republican president. The Democrats have and did. They will regret this because while in the short term it may be to their benefit, IF they lose control of the Senate( and I do say "IF" with the Tea Party as the GOP'S biggest wild card... indeed there isn't an inevitability of regaining control, merely a possibility) all the virtuous denunciation of using the nuclear option and throwing away two centuries of tradition will have all been for naught. Do I favor the current gridlock and obstructionism? No, though appointees of either party should not merely be rubber stamped but thoroughly vetted ...nonetheless save for egregious cases if nothing significant or damning develops in the confirmation process the president of either party should have nominees ultimately confirmed. Now, as bad as the GOP has been with Obama nominees how have Democrats faired going against Bush nominees? This "nuclear option" at least currently does not follow with Presidential appointees to the Supreme Court..... hopefully that will not change but the damage right now is done. It may be politically righteous, but Dems cannot expect to have their way when things look up for them but suddenly become fierce defenders of tradition and challenge the GOP should they no longer be in the majority. The ends justify the means is bad when Republicans do it and equally when Democrats do it...damn the motivations as the road to hell is paved with "good" intentions.
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    ...damn the motivations as the road to hell is paved with "good" intentions.
    That's just the pavement -- the foundation is stupidity and selfishness and all the other little bitty failings that drive most of our behavior.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    The only clear thing I know is that this is way overdue. We should run our Senate constitutionally. That does not include a whim of a single senator stopping the progress of an entire nation because he has presidential aspirations and needs his hate group to nominate him first.
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    THIS is all the esplainin' you should need for WHY the filibuster is no longer a viable policy for giving the minority a voice in the game, they have used it to steal the pieces and then flip the board over while storming off like an angry child.

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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    .
    With the senate invoking the "nuclear option", does this mean that Congressional approval might rise above single digits?
    Last edited by chrisrobin; November 22nd, 2013 at 04:42 AM.

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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    All due respect to some posters here,back in 05,Democrats made a deal with Republicans and kept their word.
    Every "deal" the Republicans have made with Democrats since 09 over the use of the filibuster has been broken by the Republicans.
    And I have no doubt that with the way they are today,they would have changed the rules in a heartbeat if they got power.
    Democrats simply struck first.

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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    The over 200 year 'agreement' has worked - now the Senate is even more controlled by a man like Harry Reid. He's now the dictator of the Senate - he totally controls the Senate. Just because you can't always get your way and you whine like Obama isn't a reason for change. Two centuries of democrats and republicans have had to deal with filibuster rules. Why now?
    And the House controlled by Boner is different? How?
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  36. #36
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^^

    I have no idea. I doubt that it will be McConnell is charge when the next Congress starts in 2015 -- there will likely be a new majority leader.

    Ending something that is 225 years old should not be done lightly. Obama thinks he's had it harder than any other President. He hasn't had to deal with a civil war like Lincoln or a world war like FDR and Truman. All he does is whine and refuse to talk with anyone in the House or Senate -- he's one strange dude.

    Obama thought the nuclear option was a bad idea when he was a Senator and republicans were in control of the Senate. Republicans backed down.
    Jack, does this look like the GOP isn't obstructing?



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  37. #37
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Given the performance of the House and Senate I can think of another "nuclear option," but choose not to be arrested by the Men in Black.

  38. #38
    Cold November Rain Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    oopsie daisy...

  39. #39
    veni, vidi, reliqui
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    I have no idea why anyone would defend the use of rules that are not spelled out in the constitution of the country. Just because something has supposedly 'worked' for 225 years does not mean that it works today.

    I know for a fact that at one time a filibuster meant more than just recording it on the vote and then everyone going home for the weekend or the summer.

    From the outside it looks like it is high time that some major rule changes were made that do allow a democratically elected president and senate to exercise the authority the voters gave them and to start to get people thinking about how things can get done instead of how the legislative branch can prevent anything from getting done.

  40. #40

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    When the next President, a republican, takes office the republican senate will only need 50 votes to approve all Supreme Court nominees.

    Let's go back to the good old days when all it took was some cash in a Senator's pocket, a hooker, and some booze to change votes.

  41. #41
    Cold November Rain Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Let's go back to the good old days when all it took was some cash in a Senator's pocket, a hooker, and some booze to change votes.

  42. #42

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Read the article in Politico to see how things used to get done in the Senate.

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...0.html?ml=po_r

  43. #43
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Read the article in Politico to see how things used to get done in the Senate.

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...0.html?ml=po_r
    I like the House better when they used to beat each other up with their canes.


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  44. #44

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Here's what the Hypocrite-in-Chief thought about the nuclear option in 2005 . . .



  45. #45

    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    They were against it before they were for it . . .



  46. #46
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"


  47. #47
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    oopsie daisy...
    Of daisies and nuclear options:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDTBnsqxZ3k
    Last edited by KaraBulut; November 22nd, 2013 at 11:32 AM. Reason: underage person in video

  48. #48
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Jack, this is not 2005. Welcome to the 2013 world.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Here's what the Hypocrite-in-Chief thought about the nuclear option in 2005 . . .

    YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GhSKywjnqc
    I'm so glad you brought up hypocrisy! Because I've spent half my morning reading right wing sadz followed immediately by flashbacks of when THEY were pushing for this same thing.

    And I think it's safe to assume that in 2005 Obama had no clue thatRepublicans hate America so much that they'd rather destroy the country than let someone else govern it...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  50. #50
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    Re: Senate invokes "nuclear option"

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    The only clear thing I know is that this is way overdue. We should run our Senate constitutionally. That does not include a whim of a single senator stopping the progress of an entire nation because he has presidential aspirations and needs his hate group to nominate him first.
    Ah -- you're talking about holds. There's a certain point to that system, but it gives 'way too much power to single senators.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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